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H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 09:54 PM Jan 2020

On Revolutionary Chickens

Process:
Noun – A series of actions or operations conducted to proceed to a particular result.
Verb – To subject to a specific routine, to manufacture.


I tend to view things in two simple ways: “systems” and “process.” I think of various systems – be it a family, a school, a work place, or a community – like a mobile that hangs over an infant's crib. Every system seeks to find balance, in order to conduct the process for which it is intended. Healthy systems engage in processes that result in positive outcomes, while unhealthy systems produce negative outcomes.

The current US Senate is an unbalanced system, with 53 republicans versus 47 Democrats. Hence, on the first day of the impeachment trial, we saw numerous 53 to 47 votes on every proposed amendment by the Democrats. That was the expected outcome of these votes, since a system can only produce that which it contains. As Malcolm X noted, a hen cannot lay a duck egg ….and if a hen ever did, we would all agree that it is a revolutionary hen.

However, that Senate mobile is now engaged in a process that contains more than Senators. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is another piece on the larger mobile. The House Democrats prosecuting the case and the president's defense team are two other additions. Each has a unique process goal. And we can add yet another system – the public – which includes several sub-systems, including those hoping for conviction, those opposing conviction, and those not paying attention.

The president's defense team is playing to two groups, the first being those who are not paying attention. Thus, part of the defense is focused on discouraging people from paying attention, a common trait for those with republican tendencies. They say it's boring. The republican Senators proved this while the Democratic managers presented their case.

The second group is those who see what is going on, but understand nothing beyond emotion. Like magicians attempting to trick an audience, they stimulate people to see without perceiving. Forum members here perceive what they are doing, and understand why they do this. For these magicians want to convince this second audience that good is bad, and bad is good. It is that frustratingly simple.

These charlatans want the public to see no reason for the trial to include documents and witnesses. They know the republican Senators can ill-afford the public to perceive the absolute necessity of any documents or witnesses. So they insist the Democrats are being unreasonable. The defense team members are snake oil salespersons, who rely upon emotions to overshadow facts to sell their worthless product.

Our floor managers are making it hard on Trump's defense mobile. About 70% of the public that is paying attention understand the need for documents and witnesses. That's bad for the defense team, the republicans in the Senate, and it is even worse for the White House. Because that 70% perceive exactly why the republicans are trying to avoid a real trial.

We are witnessing the Democrats doing a great job of expanding the process. It will be hard for all of the republicans in the Senate to vote against the call for documents and witnesses. A number of them face uncertain re-election campaigns. They are trapped in a purgatory, not fully in Trump's camp, nor comfortable in being true to themselves.

They know that if the republicans vote 53 to 47 against having documents and witnesses, the Democrats – floor managers and Senators – are prepared to ask Chief Justice Roberts for a ruling. They have the right to request this, and Roberts has the right to rule that a fair impeachment trial requires documents and witnesses. At that point, the republicans need to consider – as a group and individuals – if they really want to vote 53 to 47 to overrule the conservative republican Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

It's an open question. Each must consider it in terms of their own political career, and how they want to be remembered. Many will prefer to avoid running the risk of having their head on a pike on the mar-a-logo golf course, by voting to overrule Roberts. But for several, openly disrespecting Roberts increases the risk of losing the next election. What is a moral coward to do?

Perhaps they should pay attention to the film of Adam Schiff talking about Robert Kennedy and moral bravery. And focus on perceiving, not just seeing. Most of them won't, but we should keep calling their offices, and demanding that they do. Because the momentum of the process has begun to shift, and if we get get four republicans, the momentum shifts more. In fact, we really only need three, to make a 50-50 ties that Roberts – not Pence – decides. Then, it's a whole new ball game. With documents and witnesses, we just might see what Malcolm X would agree are revolutionary chickens when it comes to convicting.

Peace,
H2O Man

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
On Revolutionary Chickens (Original Post) H2O Man Jan 2020 OP
Yes Timewas Jan 2020 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #2
Seems like Timewas Jan 2020 #4
Right. H2O Man Jan 2020 #6
A fraud and a sleazebag malaise Jan 2020 #18
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #20
We spoke earlier today so you know my feelings coeur_de_lion Jan 2020 #3
Correct. H2O Man Jan 2020 #5
The Republicans are truly between a rock and a hard place lunatica Jan 2020 #7
Exactly. H2O Man Jan 2020 #16
Kick Hekate Jan 2020 #8
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #15
Recommend kentuck Jan 2020 #9
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #13
I don't know if Mitt Romney is trying to help some of them change their minds? kentuck Jan 2020 #17
Ithink Mitt is key here. H2O Man Jan 2020 #21
A good post--but "Revolutionary Chickens" sounds like a sequel to "Reservoir Dogs"... First Speaker Jan 2020 #10
I think that H2O Man Jan 2020 #11
Do you think Roberts is gonna flex? blogslut Jan 2020 #12
Yes, I do .... H2O Man Jan 2020 #14
I think you are right about Roberts. kentuck Jan 2020 #19
Exactly, kentuck! H2O Man Jan 2020 #22

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
2. Thank you!
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:02 PM
Jan 2020

I'm watching the defense presentation over again. I have trouble believing it is actually this weak.

Timewas

(2,190 posts)
4. Seems like
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:08 PM
Jan 2020

From what I have seen and heard they are playing a set hand with known results, they are sure of acquittal so they don't really need and the truth in there...An attitude of "that's my story and I'm sticking to it" if they get no more evidence as they truly want to happen they are home free. Without witnesses and relevant data they can all crow like roosters as if they caused the sun to rise

coeur_de_lion

(3,676 posts)
3. We spoke earlier today so you know my feelings
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:06 PM
Jan 2020

70% of the American people want witnesses. If the repugs say no to witnesses they have no chance of winning in November.

Even with witnesses Senate repugs will vote to acquit. Just my opinion but I don't give a shit what they do.

The American people are sick to death of the drama.

They can vote for no witnesses but if they do they will be gone November 3rd.

There is no recovering from the trump pResidency for the republican party.

They are already finished -- just waiting for the end to be official.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
5. Correct.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:09 PM
Jan 2020

The republicans have come to a fork in the road. One path leads to humiliating defeat, the other to total self-destruction. Let us hope they have the wisdom to make the right choice.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
7. The Republicans are truly between a rock and a hard place
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:40 PM
Jan 2020

They want to skip having witnesses so they can quickly acquit Trump and they’re assuming the people will quickly forget. But that won’t happen and it’ll be Trump who screws up their plans. He will crow like the cock he is about being acquitted not once but twice. That boy can’t help himself. He’ll keep every American aware of his impeachment. So the Republican plans of sweeping anything under the rug will go bust.

But just as important is the fact that much more of Trump’s underhanded ways will come out in a steady stream, just like it has in the last few months. And this too will keep people’s attention and reminded of the Senate’s overly quick acquittal. The Republicans are going to look really bad and the person they are protecting will be who causes their demise.

He is going to feel completely empowered like he’s never felt before. It will be Trump unleashed.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
16. Exactly.
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 12:48 AM
Jan 2020

As Adam Schiff warned, if Trump survives this trial, he will unlease madness. And if the process were to include documents and witnesses, he will also unlease madness. For he is a mad man, who is reacting to pressure, without the ability to do anything good. 2020 is going to be a strange, sometimes dangerous, sometimes beautiful year. It demands our very best efforts.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
13. Thank you!
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 12:36 AM
Jan 2020

Right -- it is one possibility. The chances of it becoming reality is increased with each and every contact we have with those vulnerable Senators. Reports indicate their offices are being flooded with calls and e-mails. There's no doubt the Trump supporters are making their hopes heard. We need to apply maximum pressure.

kentuck

(111,053 posts)
17. I don't know if Mitt Romney is trying to help some of them change their minds?
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 09:29 AM
Jan 2020

By making his comments.

It's really a very tough question for them: A fair trial or an unfair trial? It's very complicated for them.

The vote should be unanimous for a "fair trial".

That cannot happen if there are no witnesses permitted.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
21. Ithink Mitt is key here.
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 11:08 AM
Jan 2020

Reports indicate that he is indeed the "leader" among the small group that is considering voting for witnesses and documents. If he folds, the others almost certainly will. But I think that he is looking at what the republican party is going to be in the post-Trump era.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
11. I think that
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 12:33 AM
Jan 2020

Malcolm X came well before "Reservoir Dogs." (My sons tell me I would enjoy that movie.)

blogslut

(37,985 posts)
12. Do you think Roberts is gonna flex?
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 12:34 AM
Jan 2020

I think he might. If he's smart he knows that the power of his branch is in as much danger as that of the Congress. Also, he's an Aquarius and they're wild cards.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
14. Yes, I do ....
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 12:43 AM
Jan 2020

and for the exact reasons you note. Roberts is a conservative, who I disagree with on numerous things. But I know that he is, in his way, a constitutionalist. He's already responded publicly to Trump's attack on the federal courts. As far as I am aware, this is unique for a Chief Justice. He knows that Trump presents serious threats to the Constitution. He knows that the balance of that federal mobile -- with its three co-equal branches -- can not sustain if CCongress becomes weakened. The House has shown strength. Roberts will recognize his responsibility to try to influence the Senate to do its responsibility.

kentuck

(111,053 posts)
19. I think you are right about Roberts.
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 10:42 AM
Jan 2020

I hope you are right.

He should rule on "executive privilege" and include the right of the Senate to call all witnesses necessary for a fair trial.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
22. Exactly, kentuck!
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 11:11 AM
Jan 2020

Exactly.

"Executive privilege" is a concept that is already well-defined in law. It isn't a mystery. Everyone knows what it is, and what it isn't .....and Trump's defense team is trying to pretend otherwise.

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