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Tue Jan 28, 2020, 01:52 PM

So what makes Kobe any better than Brett Kavanaugh?

I realize this is gonna be a bit controversial, but I'm legitimately wondering. In fact, what Kobe allegedly did was even WORSE than what Brett did. What's grinding my gears is that all the people who demonized Kavanaugh are idolizing Kobe and acting like he's some kind of fallen hero. "Oh, but he turned his life around and became a great dad and family man. We shouldn't let a mistake he made when he was younger ruin his legacy". Hello? That's EXACTLY the defense people always bring up for Kavanaugh's actions. Either we believe that people can redeem themselves even in cases like this, or we need to hold the line and say that rape/attempted rape can NEVER be forgiven. I'm in the never forgiven camp tbh. There's no excuse for raping/attempting to rape somebody. None. It shows an undeniable lack of empathy for others, and a total lack of self-control.

Please let's not have everybody freak out or alert on this or something. Trying to have a legitimate discussion here.

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Reply So what makes Kobe any better than Brett Kavanaugh? (Original post)
Calculating Jan 2020 OP
awesomerwb1 Jan 2020 #1
Calculating Jan 2020 #3
lame54 Jan 2020 #28
Fullduplexxx Jan 2020 #39
lame54 Jan 2020 #40
cwydro Jan 2020 #57
lame54 Jan 2020 #77
cwydro Jan 2020 #80
lame54 Jan 2020 #82
NCLefty Jan 2020 #90
Hekate Jan 2020 #44
rockfordfile Jan 2020 #87
janterry Jan 2020 #2
Calculating Jan 2020 #6
janterry Jan 2020 #16
Fullduplexxx Jan 2020 #41
Calculating Jan 2020 #46
janterry Jan 2020 #56
MrsCoffee Jan 2020 #105
Squinch Jan 2020 #75
jcgoldie Jan 2020 #9
janterry Jan 2020 #14
jcgoldie Jan 2020 #19
janterry Jan 2020 #21
MrsCoffee Jan 2020 #106
cwydro Jan 2020 #58
janterry Jan 2020 #61
cwydro Jan 2020 #62
janterry Jan 2020 #67
cwydro Jan 2020 #70
Squinch Jan 2020 #76
unitedwethrive Jan 2020 #4
Yavin4 Jan 2020 #38
cwydro Jan 2020 #59
unitedwethrive Jan 2020 #101
NewJeffCT Jan 2020 #5
bearsfootball516 Jan 2020 #8
hlthe2b Jan 2020 #10
hlthe2b Jan 2020 #11
yardwork Jan 2020 #17
tenderfoot Jan 2020 #64
maxrandb Jan 2020 #104
Blue_true Jan 2020 #86
Beringia Jan 2020 #95
Blue_true Jan 2020 #98
TexasBushwhacker Jan 2020 #97
nolabear Jan 2020 #7
oasis Jan 2020 #12
Quixote1818 Jan 2020 #13
Solomon Jan 2020 #29
kcr Jan 2020 #103
Blue_true Jan 2020 #88
cyclonefence Jan 2020 #15
jcgoldie Jan 2020 #22
yardwork Jan 2020 #18
evertonfc Jan 2020 #20
Quixote1818 Jan 2020 #24
Calculating Jan 2020 #43
maxrandb Jan 2020 #52
Rorey Jan 2020 #78
Vivienne235729 Jan 2020 #102
jmg257 Jan 2020 #55
mfcorey1 Jan 2020 #23
RockRaven Jan 2020 #25
Bananaluver Jan 2020 #26
GitRDun Jan 2020 #27
Siwsan Jan 2020 #30
Midnight Writer Jan 2020 #31
R B Garr Jan 2020 #32
Beringia Jan 2020 #35
R B Garr Jan 2020 #99
Beringia Jan 2020 #33
RhodeIslandOne Jan 2020 #63
moondust Jan 2020 #34
mainstreetonce Jan 2020 #36
Fullduplexxx Jan 2020 #37
Atticus Jan 2020 #42
obamanut2012 Jan 2020 #45
Calculating Jan 2020 #47
LanternWaste Jan 2020 #48
Polybius Jan 2020 #49
Calculating Jan 2020 #50
Polybius Jan 2020 #51
Blue_true Jan 2020 #89
stonecutter357 Jan 2020 #53
ploppy Jan 2020 #54
cbdo2007 Jan 2020 #68
ploppy Jan 2020 #69
Calculating Jan 2020 #73
uponit7771 Jan 2020 #93
tenderfoot Jan 2020 #60
LeftInTX Jan 2020 #65
RhodeIslandOne Jan 2020 #66
Bettie Jan 2020 #71
DFW Jan 2020 #72
underthematrix Jan 2020 #74
Ms. Toad Jan 2020 #79
tulipsandroses Jan 2020 #81
Bluesaph Jan 2020 #83
OneBro Jan 2020 #84
Blue_true Jan 2020 #91
Blue_true Jan 2020 #85
uponit7771 Jan 2020 #92
carpetbagger Jan 2020 #94
Beringia Jan 2020 #96
ecstatic Jan 2020 #100

Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 01:53 PM

1. Wow

Keep calculating.

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Response to awesomerwb1 (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 01:58 PM

3. You didn't answer the question at all

And responded with a personal attack.

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Response to Calculating (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:33 PM

28. Kobe confronted it - Kavanaugh still denies it

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Response to lame54 (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:04 PM

39. Well as long as he confronted it ....

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:06 PM

40. You're right - they're EXACTLY the same person

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Response to lame54 (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:30 PM

57. He denied it until he saw the evidence against him.

Hardly confronting.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #57)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 04:33 PM

77. When is it Kavanaugh's turn?

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Response to lame54 (Reply #77)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 05:01 PM

80. What does that have to do with it?

He’s a fucking rapist too.

They both got away with it.

Rape apologists on DU. Yuck.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #80)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 05:08 PM

82. The OP question was...

How is Kobe different from Kavanaugh?

But all answers are flat out rejected

Could of saved us time but telling us it was a rhetorical question

A discussion of what Kobe did is fair but the way this was framed is ridiculous

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Response to lame54 (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 07:43 PM

90. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know"

Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." Bryant stated that he assumed consent for sex because of the accuser's body language such as her kissing him, putting her hand on his penis, and bending over, but that he did not explicitly ask for her consent during the encounter. Bryant later said that he believed his accuser was capable of saying no because during the encounter he asked her if he could "cum on her face", and she said no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant_sexual_assault_case

But BOY he was good at sports!

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Response to Calculating (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:09 PM

44. Okay, using your name that way is NOT "a personal attack." Get real -- you asked a hot-button...

...question, so just deal with the answers.

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Response to Calculating (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 07:21 PM

87. There was no personal attack

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 01:57 PM

2. You see serial rapists and those that are involved in one incident the same?

Legally, you see them both as unforgivable?

And thus no treatment for either? Or do we ostracize them forever and give them treatment?

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Response to janterry (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:01 PM

6. Yes

I consider rape to be unforgiveable. I would never even consider it, and expect others to have similar empathy and self-control. There's something deeply wrong with anyone who would rape someone.

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Response to Calculating (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:07 PM

16. Well, then you should probably

lobby for men and women to be locked up forever. No second chances. And no treatment.

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Response to janterry (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:06 PM

41. Victims can carry it with them forever.

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Response to janterry (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:16 PM

46. Yes, I do typically believe that rapists/child molesters need to stay locked up

They re-offend at a much higher rate than other criminals. "Is it fair to take their whole life away though?" Ask their victims, who will be traumatized and forever broken the rest of their lives in some cases. Rape doesn't kill people, but it can destroy them emotionally for a long time afterwards and leave them a shell of what they were. It's an awful crime, second only to murder/torture imo.

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Response to Calculating (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:29 PM

56. Some do feel broken forever

I'm glad you said some. Many people with trauma and PTSD experience recovery, too.

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Response to janterry (Reply #56)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 07:46 AM

105. Wow.

Did you really just try to say that “many people” get over and forget about their rape? In defense of giving rapists a second chance?

Today is a good day for me to stay off of DU.

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Response to janterry (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 04:08 PM

75. Wait. Are you saying one rape is really not that big a deal? Sounds like that's what you are saying.

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Response to janterry (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:02 PM

9. "Involved in one incident"

Thats a pretty interesting way to describe a rape allegation.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:05 PM

14. I don't mean to be rude

- I'm sure you've read the literature.

But so have I -
and I've worked with a lot of men who have one incident

and I've worked with others (though less directly) who are serial rapists.

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Response to janterry (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:08 PM

19. "Men who have one incident" are rapists

I’m not saying people cant turn their lives around and Im obviously not saying one rape is the same as many but describing a person who raped a woman as being “involved in an incident” is bullshit passive voice rationalization.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:10 PM

21. That's the way I speak

and I'm not rationalizing anything. I've worked with those men. I know what I am talking about.

eta: the hypothetical was about those who are rapists (completed the crime) and those that made an attempt. The hypothetical was not about 2 rapists.

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Response to janterry (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 07:48 AM

106. Have you worked with the victims?

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Response to janterry (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:32 PM

58. "One incident " where they got caught.

Maybe you should work with some victims.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:38 PM

61. No. You are wrong

and I have worked with MANY victims.

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Response to janterry (Reply #61)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:41 PM

62. The fact that you call a rape an "incident" that the rapist was "involved with" speaks volumes.

Ugh.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:45 PM

67. You are being rude

so, I'm out.

Peace to you.

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Response to janterry (Reply #67)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:52 PM

70. I've no respect for rapists.

Or those who make apologies for them. How do you feel about Weinstein? Poor misunderstood man.

I know someone who was raped. It was not “an incident she was involved in.”

Ugh, again.

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Response to janterry (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 04:09 PM

76. WTF??? "Men who have one incident"??? A man who rapes is a rapist. It doesn't matter whether you

have worked with them or not.

Jesus.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 01:59 PM

4. The difference is, that Kobe is dead.

Respecting someone after they die, for at least a few days, is one of the few civilities we have left.

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Response to unitedwethrive (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:03 PM

38. "one of the few civilities we have left"

Nope. See social media.

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Response to unitedwethrive (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:34 PM

59. Oh please, how long have you been on DU?

See any death of any Republican.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #59)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 09:44 PM

101. Sure don't want it to be much longer.

Maybe I'll just go now.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:00 PM

5. Umm

I believe Bryant apologized, showed remorse and settled out of court with the woman - estimated to be around $2.5 million.

I did not see any apology or remorse from Kavanaugh.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:02 PM

8. Not to mention, Kobe did amazing things for the WNBA and women's rights.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:02 PM

10. This... though the OP may not be able to see the difference...

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:04 PM

11. Nor did Kobe attack his accuser afterwards and unleash a firestorm of "haters" to drive her

from her own home and threaten her and her family for years afterwards.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:07 PM

17. This is a good point.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:42 PM

64. Golly... why hasn't the OP replied?

eom

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Response to tenderfoot (Reply #64)

Fri Jan 31, 2020, 07:36 AM

104. Maybe it's because

Russian Bots will even use the death of a prominent sports star to sow division.

Sometimes I fucking hate social media.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 07:18 PM

86. He also was acquitted of rape at trial. There was a question of whether it was not in fact

consensual.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #86)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 08:26 PM

95. He was not acquitted. The DA case was dropped because she refused to testify


She later brought a civil case and they settled.

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Response to Beringia (Reply #95)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 08:41 PM

98. I was wrong on acquittal.

But if memory serves me right, legal experts were saying that the case had been so badly compromised that acquittal was the most likely outcome.

The civil trial does not have the same weight as a criminal trial, the threshold in a civil trial is much lower. Bryant could have settled to get it all behind him so that he could start rebuilding whatever he sought to rebuild and $2.5 million was a low price to pay for him.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #86)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 08:27 PM

97. It never went to trial

The woman refused to testify. This was Kobe's apology. Compare this to the behavior of Brett Kavanaugh or Harvey Weinstein.

"First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colorado. I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case.

Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter. I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado."

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:01 PM

7. Explain to me exactly what happened with Kobe, what he did after and since.

If I think you understand the difference we can go from there. What he did appears to have been wrong though I don’t know the absolute truth of it. What he did afterward was vastly different.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:04 PM

12. Kavanaugh has been a spoiled rotten piece of garbage his entire life.

Kobe has worked hard to redeem his character. It's best we let Kobe rest in peace.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:04 PM

13. I have several friends who were raped and they are asking the same question.

I think it's a fair question. I don't know much about the alleged Kobe rape but it seems like there were some holes in the girls story wasn't there? And she had semen from another fellow in her underwear. I could be wrong.

All I know is women who have been raped seem a lot more sensitive to this and I can see why it would be hurtful to them.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:35 PM

29. Thats correct. There were a couple of holes in

the allegation. In addition to the other semen, she admitted it was consensual at the start but said no or stop after it started. Not saying what he did wasn't wrong, but to me the Kavanaugh stuff was worse.

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Response to Solomon (Reply #29)

Wed Jan 29, 2020, 02:46 AM

103. Wrong. She never admitted it was consensual.

There were no holes in the allegation.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 07:22 PM

88. From what I read at the time, she had Semena from TWO other men either in her

body or on her underwear. Also some coworkers testified that she wanted to meet Kobe and stated that. End the end it came down to credibility.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:05 PM

15. I would not have compared him to Kavanaugh

but I was waiting and waiting for somebody to bring up the rape accusation against Kobe. The victim withdrew the charges in return for a cash settlement, which says to me her accusation was credible. Finally, a Philadelphia sportswriter talked about Kobe's flaws, comparing him to Tiger Woods.

I believe that professional athletes, especially excellent ones (and it doesn't hurt to be handsome, either) are accustomed to having women fling themselves at them, and I think it's easy for the athletes to assume that any woman they desire is theirs for the taking. This does not excuse sexual misbehavior, but I think it supports my personal belief that there are lots of rapes committed by big-time professional athletes that go unreported, for a variety of reasons--including cash settlements.

Let the brickbats begin. I'm a big girl--I can take it.

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Response to cyclonefence (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:17 PM

22. Tiger woods is a serial adulterer who hasnt been accused of rape

At least not that Im aware. Dont get me wrong I think Tiger’s a complete asshole but rape is a crime of violence. And “lots of rapes committed by professional athletes” excuses nothing.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:07 PM

18. This is a reasonable and fair question.

There are some good responses in this thread, too.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:09 PM

20. Wow. Just wow

 

A young man just passed away with his 13 yo daughter and you want to discuss a rape allegation from over 15 years ago? An allegation that was never prosecuted. How do we even know an assault occurred? That said, this is a discussion for later as his daughters remains were just removed from the side of a mountain. We don't have to forget about the rape allegation but why bring it up now? Yes, allegations are to be taken serious but so are cases where a person wasn't convicted. How about letting the family bury their loved one's, remember the people Kobe touched and inspired and then, if for some strange reason, someone is obsessed enough to talk about an alleged crime 15 years ago- go for it.

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Response to evertonfc (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:18 PM

24. All I know is his being glorified has been hurtful to my friends who have

been raped. It's horrible his daughter was killed and that he was killed as I do believe he changed and grew as a person but we also need to be sensitive to those whose lives have been devastated from rape.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:07 PM

43. This

We can't marginalize his past sins and make him out to be some kind of hero. He was a man with issues who worked hard to redeem himself, but we can never forget what he did in the past.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:27 PM

52. Did I miss somewhere that Kobe Bryant was "convicted" of rape?

There was an allegation, an accusation and a settlement. As part of that settlement, I don't believe Kobe was required to admit anything other than a consensual incident. He was surely never convicted of rape.

Additionally, everything he's done since then has been to devote his considerable media influence to elevate women in sports and industry.

Mickey's Big Mouth Brett has done nothing but use his considerable influence to use the power of the state to take women back... not to the 1950's, but back to the 1850's.

I have no idea what happened in Denver, and neither do you.

I have a good friend whose wife accused him of molesting their daughter when they were going through a divorce. It cost him his reputation, a promotion that he had earned, and ruined his life. That accusation was later proven to be false.

Like victims of rape feel about those accused of rape, my friend feels the same about those convicted by accusation.

I think we would all live in a better world if we looked at and judged people by their totality... not as we believe them to be, but as they truly are.

Our political world loves for us to not look at the totality of a person... that way, someone like Donnie Shit for Brains can pretend that he's anti-corruption.

People are more than one part. If I look at the totality that I know about Kobe, and compare it to the totality of what I know about Kavanaugh, I know which one I'd trust with my daughter.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 04:44 PM

78. Excellent post

You said everything I wanted to say.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 11:51 PM

102. Thank you for your post. Totally agree.

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Response to evertonfc (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:29 PM

55. He admitted to having sex with a woman without her consent.

Conviction isn't the end all for showing guilt.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:18 PM

23. There is room for growth in every person's life. People would not

gravitate to Mr. Bryant if they had not observed that. On the other hand, Kavanaugh sought to use the manipulation of a corrupt system to gain a seat on the Supreme Court. On his journey he has not apologized and but he has aligned himself with ideology that will marginalize the underserved. At least Mr. Bryant has used his lifetime of redemption to reach out to so many with compassion and understanding. That is why you see so much love sent his way. People talk of knowing him for mentorship, advice about life when it seems they are falling, loving their children and so much more. I have not seen Kavanaugh visit anything but a rethuglican forum. We have the right to let others enter our lives, vicariously or physically, and when they are no longer there, we find an empty void. This is from the heart of one who has never met Mr. Bryant in person. However, I have followed his life through the ups and downs and I have found the beauty of redemption. My heart aches at the loss of his life, and the many others who were travelers with him on that fateful day. It speaks to our incarceration system that a person sentenced to 30 years for stealing a bottle of soda will forever be looked upon as a thief even though the exit from the penal system, if allowed, should begin his journey to redemption. In other words, in response to this post, to each his own.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:23 PM

25. Well, Kobe can't hurt anyone anymore. That's better than Boofer Boy at the moment.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:24 PM

26. It is part of Kobe's history. The good, bad and ugly.

 

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:28 PM

27. It's easy to NEVER forgive others

My guess is you would not want to be held to the same standard.

Redemption is a good thing.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:39 PM

30. Not "better", but a different situation. Show some respect for his devastated, grieving family

Even though I am no stranger to grief from a sudden, unexpected death, I can't begin to fathom what they are going through.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:41 PM

31. Kobe never aspired to the top Court where he would make decisions affecting us all.

Forgive him or not, that is up to you. But nobody was proposing that we put Kobe in charge of deciding the fate of others.

His job was to through balls through a hoop, not stand in judgement over others.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:44 PM

32. Jeez, this is nothing like Kavanaugh. Kobe was arrested and criminally charged.

DNA evidence was taken as part of that process. The case started becoming dicey after that since there was evidence of multiple male specimens, not just Kobe. She also left her position in the hotel to go to his room although there were no job-related duties that required her there.

The case looked to be coming down to a withdrawal of consent. At some time, she consented, then she withdrew consent. She settled for an apology from him and an admission that it wasn't consensual instead of attending a trial and both of them having to explain why she left her job to go to his room, when was it consensual and when did you change your mind, and what about the DNA evidence of multiple males. This is all from what I remember reading about 17 years ago, but there were other things about their encounter I won't get into here since I'd have to look it up again anyways.

When was Kavanaugh arrested, charged, and evidence collected?? Never. It's not a matter of believing Kobe's accuser, because she never testified. She settled for the apology and about 2.5 million in settlement money. Kobe learned his lesson that consent can be withdrawn at any time. Neither had to testify in court, so that seemed to be the mutual settlement.

This was nothing like Kavanaugh.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:55 PM

35. She had choke marks and vaginal lacerations


He said to the police that Shaq does this to women all the time, but buys the women fancy cars to buy their silence. There were no other specimens in her vagina, there was specimens on a 2nd pair of underwear that were dirty that she wore to the examination, that were from the past.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-disturbing-rape-case-the-dna-evidence-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession

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Response to Beringia (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 09:25 PM

99. The article is from 2016. Did you follow the case

from the beginning, almost 17 years ago now. I’m not going to get into a Google article war.

So she wore dirty panties that had another man’s DNA to an exam. Who does that. It pretty much ruins your case for obvious reasons. Of course the timing of that intercourse would be relevant.

She dropped the criminal case, but kept the civil case where she can get money. So the article is right in the statement that what happened in that room will remain a mystery because she chose not to testify. Courts usually assign victim advocates, so she would have had help and recourse if she was being harassed.

FWIW, I had no reason to not believe her, until she went for the money instead of testifying. Some parts of her story were also disputed, such as an employee who saw her and contradicted some things she said.

Anyway, this is nothing like the Kavanaugh case.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:46 PM

33. A WaPo reporter was put on leave for tweeting about this


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/washington-post-suspends-reporter-who-tweeted-about-kobe-bryant-rape-allegations-following-his-death/2020/01/27/babe9c04-413b-11ea-b5fc-eefa848cde99_story.html#comments-wrapper

The Washington Post has placed on administrative leave a reporter who tweeted a link to a news story about rape allegations against the late basketball star Kobe Bryant after his death on Sunday, saying “her tweets displayed poor judgment that undermined the work of her colleagues.”

The tweet by political reporter Felicia Sonmez sparked a furious backlash on social media, with many deeming it inappropriate just hours after Bryant and his daughter, Gianna, were killed in a helicopter crash outside of Los Angeles. In the wake of her posting, Sonmez said she received death and rape threats and her home address was posted online, compelling her to stay at a hotel overnight.

The Post placed Sonmez on paid leave while newsroom managers look into the episode.


(Most of the comments on WaPo support the woman tweeting about this and WaPo should not censor this. This always happens when a celebrity person that most people like dies. People say it is the wrong time to bring up their past, but it is normal to bring these things up when they die).

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Response to Beringia (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:42 PM

63. The blowback on that has been nasty

 

Including people citing it as "white women problems".

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 02:52 PM

34. For one thing,

Kobe was not seeking a position of power--for life--that could adversely affect the lives of millions in so many ways. For a position like that you'd ideally want a model citizen with a history of strong moral values and Kavboy the Boofer does not make the grade.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:00 PM

36. Differences

1 Kobe acknowledged being wrong
2 Kavanaugh lied under oath.
4 Kavenaugh was given a lifetime job.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:03 PM

37. Oh, but he turned his life around and became a great dad and family man.

This is the kind of crap magats say about president failure

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:07 PM

42. That you even have to ask this question----- I'll leave it there. nt

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:12 PM

45. Nothing, except he was a sports star

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:17 PM

47. Right

As people say, "winning fixes everything in our world"

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:19 PM

48. The US replaced nobility with celebrity.

And we often allow our celebrities a butt-load of latitude for transgressions against others. Each show about the vapid being celebrities illustrates us as such a little more and a little more.

I cannot however, attest that a thing may or may not be unforgivable unless I myself am the victim and from that, utilize my own free will and choose to allow or deny forgiveness.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:21 PM

49. What I didn't understand is what Kobe said after

He said something like he thought the sexual encounter was consensual. Assuming he was telling the truth, how could one person thing it was consensual? Was she drunk and he took advantage of her? What did his accuser say? It's been so long I've forgotten.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #49)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:23 PM

50. I think it was initially consensual

But as things progressed she said NO, and Kobe didn't stop. Basically she withdrew the earlier consent.

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Response to Calculating (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:26 PM

51. Oh wow, that makes much more sense

When a woman (or man) says no it always means no, even if it's been going on for some time.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 07:35 PM

89. Even if it started out consensual, when one participant says no or stop,

anything by the other person beyond that becomes rape. The main issue with the case was the evidence backing her sside of the situation became shakier and shakier as the trial progressed.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:28 PM

53. google it / NT .

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:29 PM

54. WOW!

I never thought I would see support for a rapist at DU. How sad.

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Response to ploppy (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:46 PM

68. We support drunks, thieves, abusers, murderers, liars, cheaters, all sorts of people.

If you are looking for perfect people who have never wronged anyone, you're going to have a very lonely existence.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #68)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:48 PM

69. I am not lonely

and I am not perfect. I don't like rapists. Even if they can run fast and throw balls through hoops.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #68)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 04:03 PM

73. I'm not looking for perfect people

Certain things like rape/murder kinda cross the line though. Plenty of people make mistakes (I have myself). Rape is a bit beyond a 'mistake', as it leaves a victim behind with severe trauma and emotional problems in many cases.

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Response to ploppy (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 08:17 PM

93. You mean someone repented and acquitted of rape right? Why don't you know this already? tia

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:36 PM

60. someone's having fun today.



Don't hurt yourself now.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:42 PM

65. Kobe wasn't on the Supreme Court

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:44 PM

66. It seems that anything made public prior to #meToo....

 

Was wiped clean from everyone's slate.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:52 PM

71. He was good at sportsball

and that means all is forgiven pretty easily.

He never really had any consequence beyond paying a sum of money, which he had plenty of, so it was more of an inconvenience to him than anything else.

The woman dropped the charges because of death threats and her entire sexual history being dragged out for everyone to see.

People ask "why don't women report rapes?". Well, because once you accuse a man of rape, you are the suspect and he's the "good man" or "good boy" whose life you're trying to ruin.

It appears that he made some changes in his life and his outlook on women after that, he did a lot of good in the world. That is a good thing.

I don't think forgiveness is impossible, but forgetting what happened is impossible for victims.

So, no, this shouldn't be the only thing that he's remembered for, but it shouldn't be treated as if it never happened either.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 03:53 PM

72. I didn't even have a clue who Kobe Bryant was

I had to look him up, too.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 04:04 PM

74. I imagine my response will also be controversial. The difference between Kobe and Brett

is this. Brett started assaulting women when he was a teenager and continued the assaults throughout his college years and later in law school. Kobe was involved in ONE incident.

When I first heard this story about Kobe, I felt two things. I was extremely pissed at Kobe for being so stupid. What black man would be dumb enough to get in a situation like that with a random white woman. DUMB. DUMB. DUMB. He had achieved so much. He was brilliant and talented and popular and yet he was willing to throw it away on someone who wasn't even in his social class. Jesus. The rage I felt was palpable.

Did I believe he raped her. NO. Absolutely not. Did I believe I was watching a scene from In the Heat of the Night? Yes. To me, she represented every white woman who had ever falsely accused a black man of rape. She was every white woman who ever caused a black man to die swinging from a tree. I hated her but my rage was reserved for Kobe and the people around him who should've protected him.

i was also terrified for every black man in America. I was especially terrified for black men who were acquiring power through their celebrity and wealth. I think Kobe Bryant was a wake up call. Being a black man in America is different from being a white man in America. We have a Russian agent, a traitor, a thug, a mobster, rapist, a pedophile in the White House and white people call him president. And now there's this thread designed to tarnish Kobe's legacy but not one thread here about #TraitorTrump being a Russian agent. Not one thread here, where he's referred to as #TraitorTrump instead of president, king, monarch. So please, spare me your outrage about Kobe.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 04:48 PM

79. There are significant differences between the two of them.

Kobe Bryant made some level of acknowledgement/apology and just died and Brett Kavanaugh was running a smear campaign against his victim in order to obtain a seat on the highest court in the country.

As a rape survivor, I don't necessarily think that rapists need to be locked away from society and ostracized for the rest of their lives. Some are capable of growth and redemption. Kavanaugh clearly had not moved beyond frat boy rape mentality. I don't know whether Bryant had or not.

That said - this thread is really making me angry with all of the "lying slut she deserved it comments." No one is literally saying that - but that is what is meant when they suggest - for example - that there was semen from someone else on her panties or in her vagina, wink-wink.

Trashing women who disclose they have beeen raped is beyond te pale. It is possible to suggest that Bryant's situation is different without trashing his victim.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 05:03 PM

81. I disagree on the point about not forgiving anyone that commits rape or sexual assault


As far as forgiveness and redemption.
If you are talking about how the victim feels about the perpetrator - That is for the victim to decide.

As far as society, I disagree that if someone commits sexual assault, they should never be forgiven and cannot be redeemed. That should always be a case by case basis. Research has shown that many men, particularly young men still don't understand the difference between consent and sexual interest. The answer to that, is education and rehabilitation.





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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 05:14 PM

83. What is "attempted" rape?

I don’t get how a strong man like Kobe can attempt to rape someone. Was he not able to actually rape? Did he stop mid rape?

I lean toward believing the accusers except in instances like this. I don’t get like something like attempted rape can go down.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 05:17 PM

84. Were you a witness to what happened in Kobe's room?

You seem pretty goddamned sure of what happened, so I'm guessing you are a witness who was prepared to testify as to whether Kobe's accuser was a rape victim or more like, say, Carolyn Bryant. Maybe you're one of the "I believe women!" heroes incapable of the critical thinking necessary to objectively protect victims of rape while protecting victim of false allegations of rape. According to similar heroes, Demario Jackson should have gone immediately to jail after Corinne Olympios sorta kinda accused him of rape after a set member convinced Olympios that Olympios was a victim of rape. But for the video of the incident, Jackson would be in jail, likely for decades after some outraged judge read him the riot act.

Yes, it's possible that Bryant is a rapist, and yes, dear gawd or lawd say it ain't so, his accuser might have made a false accusation in the hopes of a multi-million payoff. Possible. Kobe said the sex was consensual, she said it was not. Only THEY know.

Kavenaugh lacked credibility from beginning to end. He denied that the incident occurred, presented a calendar that ultimately contradicted his own sworn testimony, lied about drinking as a minor during the period at issue, repeatedly lied about sexual references in his year book such as the meaning of the "Devil's Triangle" and "boofing," then lied about . . . ah hell. If you seriously give a damn, go read one of the many articles: Here's one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/10/02/all-of-brett-kavanaughs-lies-distortions-and-absurdities/

What I don't get is why people feel compelled to jump in either corner or grab a protest sign screaming "I believe!," therefore what I believe is reality. Even as more and more men are exonerated after spending decades in jail for rapes they didn't commit, America has yet to learn. From the Scottsboro Boys to the Central Park Five, America clearly hasn't learned a damned thing from the past.

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Response to OneBro (Reply #84)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 07:53 PM

91. You wrote a very well thoughtout post.

I tend to be from the "believe the woman until evidence shows otherwise" camp. I don't want to see a rapist walk free, but I also don't want to be part of convicting an innocent person and taking years of freedom from that person.

The thing about what happened in a situation where there were only two people present is that it all comes down to evidence and the credibility of the two people. Almost anything can be used to impeach the credibility of one or both. That is why rape allegations when there were only two people present are so hard for juries, the difficulty isn't that there are a lot of the other sex haters on the jury, it is that he said, she said without solid evidence supporting one leaves jurors stranded.

There ARE false rape allegations made annually, although I believe there are infinitely more cases where someone was raped and need to be believed as evidence and the trials play out.

People's perception of a sexual encounter could also be different. Some people like rough sex with rough physical stuff happening, other people don't like that crap at all.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 07:15 PM

85. Evidence that called credibility into question.

Kavanaugh and his protectors sought to quash evidence, Kobe's legal team dealt with the evidence.

In the end the woman that accused Kobe had a sizeable credibility problem that raised questions as to whether the sex that Kobe had with her was consensual instead of rape. She had the semen of two other men inside her in the sample that was collected from her vagina after she made the claim of rape.

As a man I would hope to be able to prove my innocence if I am innocent of a serious crime. In cases like Kobe's where there were no other people present, the credibility of the two people becomes a key element at trial. Kobe was a pig, but there were questions in the end as to whether he was a rapist.

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 08:14 PM

92. Kobe's case was dropped, why don't you know this gating factor already? tia (edited)

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #92)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 08:23 PM

94. I thought the case was dismissed when the victim said she wouldn't cooperate pre-trial n/t.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #92)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 08:27 PM

96. Not acquitted, dropped when she refused to testify

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Response to Calculating (Original post)

Tue Jan 28, 2020, 09:27 PM

100. Well, he's dead now. Hopefully your desire for vengeance has

been quenched.

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