General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI Hate asking this....
...but does anyone have a good site to debunk all the birther garbage.... please!
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)tjwash
(8,219 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)I'm not going to debate a lie. Tell them to bring facts & evidence or STFU.
trof
(54,255 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Many of the members are attorneys, and you will find extensive discussions of a lot of the nooks and crannies of various strains of Birther belief.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Response to fascisthunter (Original post)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
Paulie
(8,462 posts)Siwsan
(26,177 posts)You could show them date stamped, notarized video of Mrs. Obama giving birth, with Diamonhead visable outside of the delivery room window, and Don Ho standing in frame, serenading her by singing Tiny Bubbles, and they will STILL not believe he was born in Hawaii.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)where his mother was in labor and saw him coming down his mother's birth canal, she wouldn't give it up.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Don Ho's serenade would be a dead giveaway. I mean, it just . would . not . happen.
On the other hand, you are correct. Birthers will accept no evidence. The verdict is in.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)...but because he's a relative to somebody special in my life, I'm trying to just point him towards something he can read. Whether it helps or not.... put it this way. It's better if I do this than tell him he's a fucking idiot!
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)A relative recently mentioned the birther issue. To my surprise, that intelligent relative (who hates Obama and is a racist) is also a birther!
He said things like "Obama says he was born in Hawaii, but...."
I told him:
Don't tell me you're one of those birthers! They're loony birds. That's just crazy stuff. (silence from relative)
Then I told him...well, you know it's not OBAMA who claims he was born in Hawaii. After all, he was just an infant. It's the state of Hawaii that says he was born there. That's who your beef is with. (silence from relative, except, "uhhhhh" . So we're either going to rely on states' official records, or not. That's all we can go by...a state's official record.
I pointed out it's no different than if I requested a cert copy of my birth certificate from my home state, I'd get whatever they send for cert birth certificates. (referring to the fact that it's only a short form....I now know Hawaii finally issued a cert copy of the long form, along with an affidavit by an official verifying that Obama was born there, and she witnessed the copying of the original birth certificate.)
My relative pointed out how he knew of two cases where the short form said one thing, but their long form certificates had different information. I asked him, "What does have to do with Obama?"
Then my relative had to go.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)he did reply with a, "...well I'm not going to bother arguing..." etc.... so, that seemed to do the trick. Great guy.... just brainwashed. I hate saying that, because he isn't low IQ. He's just seriously misinformed.... now it just matters as so how hooked he is on ego. Can he wonder then admit he was wrong?
It's a question that is verrrry hard for some. The real question for me is... "WHY?"
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)I do that often with my conservative family. "You can't REALLY think that! that's been debunked SO many times! Only the crazies still believe that crap. Well, you have always been a little...strange...*wink, wink, poke, poke* hahaha!"
Another good tactic is to tie them to a group they dislike. My dad is a fiscal conservative but somewhat socially liberal. Whenever he comes up with stupid conservative economy talking points, I say things like, "Oh, I heard that from some right wing religious nutcase the other day! Maybe you should start going to church and helping them ban abortions too!" And I suppose if someone is anti-choice, you could say, "oooh, you believe THAT? That's like that group that wants abortions on demand - I heard them say that on the news..." They HATE having anything in common with a group they hate. It may not change their mind, but it shuts them up.
liberalmuse
(18,670 posts)Well, it shuts them up anyway. I just bring up my "crazy cousin". "My crazy cousin thinks that too. Too bad she refuses to take her meds" or, "My crazy cousin buries guns in the back yard and actually thinks Obama is going to take them away. Can you believe that?" - to my gun nut co-worker before she can tell me yet another update on "Fast and Furious". It's a way to nip it in the bud. Oh, and I really do have a crazy cousin who manifests the crazy only when she refuses to take medication. Odd that when she's medicated, she doesn't have any tea bagger tendencies...
Nine
(1,741 posts)Forget the birth certificate, how do they explain the birth announcement in the local paper? There was absolutely no reason on earth to submit a fake birth announcement to a newspaper unless his parents had the foresight in 1961 to think that a mixed race child with a funny name, conceived out of wedlock, was somehow going to have a shot at being the President of the U.S. someday. He was already a citizen by virtue of his mother no matter where he had been born. The only thing that would have changed if he had been born outside the U.S. is that he wouldn't have been a natural-born citizen, which makes absolutely zero difference to anyone not planning to run for president.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)A forgery, of course. The Obama people snuck a faked-up copy into the newspaper's morgue files.
Never underestimate the power of a delusional hater to rationalize anything.
jsr
(7,712 posts)Their hatred is stupid and blind.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)....and I know this person's idiosyncrasies, so I must admit, I'm very surprised to read his views. It really isn't that clear cut at times.
But I understand that may just be my own wishful thinking.
CBHagman
(16,968 posts)[url]http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm[/url]
In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated Monday afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives:
"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."
On Oct. 31, Fukino originally tried to put an end to the belief among "birthers" that Obama was born in Kenya and thus was ineligible to run for the office of president.
This one has a visual of the birth certificate, and an apology from some fool Arizonan who put the state of Hawaii through all this:
[url]http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/23/news/la-pn-arizona-obama-birth-verification-20120523[/url]
Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett has apologized for any embarrassment he caused his state when he revived a widely discredited conspiracy theory about President Obamas birthplace by requesting verification that the president was born in Hawaii.
More links:
[url]http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/2012/05/22/20120522obama-birth-hawaii-arizona-verification.html[/url]
[url]http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/hawaii_verifies_obama_birth_records_pTBHkTUVHvtwbNG89J9GnO[/url]
However, indulging the "prove it" crowd feels like enabling. It feels like brainstorming for strategies to stop an abusive partner from flying off the handle. Why is the onus on you to prove anything?
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)You know why? Because long ago, after I read many explanations, I literally never thought this idiocy could drag on as long as it has, and ever need to remember a ling to something that refuted such garbage.
But thank you, once again.
CBHagman
(16,968 posts)I suspect in some future time there will be media references to the birthers alongside those who doubted the moon landing, etc.
RagAss
(13,832 posts)It's part of their heart and soul. It's how they were raised.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Scroll down and look on the right. They've collected a lot of birther stuff.
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)that was there when he was born. They don't want to believe.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)George Romney isn't the guy running.