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I Hate asking this.... (Original Post) fascisthunter Sep 2012 OP
Here's a start JaneyVee Sep 2012 #1
Snopes is owned by George Soros. tjwash Sep 2012 #2
Ha! With things like this I always like to ask THEM to prove it first. JaneyVee Sep 2012 #6
You read my post! trof Sep 2012 #23
Just google "debunking birthers" notadmblnd Sep 2012 #3
Thefogbow.com is almost exclusively dedicated to birtherism jberryhill Sep 2012 #4
Second this. A GREAT site. nt msanthrope Sep 2012 #14
...with some really cool members! jberryhill Sep 2012 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Sep 2012 #5
Here! Paulie Sep 2012 #7
Birthers wallow in that garbage, and they love it. You won't convince them Siwsan Sep 2012 #8
I told one the other day- that even if they were in the labor room at the hospital in Hawaii notadmblnd Sep 2012 #10
Of course not. LiberalAndProud Sep 2012 #17
Thanks already... I like the guy... fascisthunter Sep 2012 #9
In addn to those sites by other posters, I had some success with this argument. Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #11
Want to announce that it did the trick fascisthunter Sep 2012 #12
Yep, ridiculing works wonders. laundry_queen Sep 2012 #13
LOL, and it really does work. liberalmuse Sep 2012 #28
I don't know how birthers ever explain away the birth *announcement* Nine Sep 2012 #16
Oh, you mean that falsified copy of the Honolulu paper? Jackpine Radical Sep 2012 #27
Nothing can convince them, not even a notarized videotape jsr Sep 2012 #18
I thought that too... but I know this person fascisthunter Sep 2012 #19
Multiple American newspapers of various political slants have already dealt with this issue. CBHagman Sep 2012 #20
Thank you... I have not fascisthunter Sep 2012 #21
You're welcome. CBHagman Sep 2012 #22
How can you debunk racism? RagAss Sep 2012 #24
This site specializes in it treestar Sep 2012 #25
I don't think you will ever change their minds. Even if you produce the dr and nursing staff southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #26
Just because his father was born in a foreign country means nothing. baldguy Sep 2012 #29
 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
6. Ha! With things like this I always like to ask THEM to prove it first.
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 08:17 PM
Sep 2012

I'm not going to debate a lie. Tell them to bring facts & evidence or STFU.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
4. Thefogbow.com is almost exclusively dedicated to birtherism
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 08:16 PM
Sep 2012

Many of the members are attorneys, and you will find extensive discussions of a lot of the nooks and crannies of various strains of Birther belief.

Response to fascisthunter (Original post)

Siwsan

(26,177 posts)
8. Birthers wallow in that garbage, and they love it. You won't convince them
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 08:18 PM
Sep 2012

You could show them date stamped, notarized video of Mrs. Obama giving birth, with Diamonhead visable outside of the delivery room window, and Don Ho standing in frame, serenading her by singing Tiny Bubbles, and they will STILL not believe he was born in Hawaii.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
10. I told one the other day- that even if they were in the labor room at the hospital in Hawaii
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 08:28 PM
Sep 2012

where his mother was in labor and saw him coming down his mother's birth canal, she wouldn't give it up.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
17. Of course not.
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 09:32 PM
Sep 2012

Don Ho's serenade would be a dead giveaway. I mean, it just . would . not . happen.

On the other hand, you are correct. Birthers will accept no evidence. The verdict is in.


 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
9. Thanks already... I like the guy...
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 08:19 PM
Sep 2012

...but because he's a relative to somebody special in my life, I'm trying to just point him towards something he can read. Whether it helps or not.... put it this way. It's better if I do this than tell him he's a fucking idiot!

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
11. In addn to those sites by other posters, I had some success with this argument.
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 08:47 PM
Sep 2012

A relative recently mentioned the birther issue. To my surprise, that intelligent relative (who hates Obama and is a racist) is also a birther!

He said things like "Obama says he was born in Hawaii, but...."

I told him:
Don't tell me you're one of those birthers! They're loony birds. That's just crazy stuff. (silence from relative)

Then I told him...well, you know it's not OBAMA who claims he was born in Hawaii. After all, he was just an infant. It's the state of Hawaii that says he was born there. That's who your beef is with. (silence from relative, except, "uhhhhh&quot . So we're either going to rely on states' official records, or not. That's all we can go by...a state's official record.

I pointed out it's no different than if I requested a cert copy of my birth certificate from my home state, I'd get whatever they send for cert birth certificates. (referring to the fact that it's only a short form....I now know Hawaii finally issued a cert copy of the long form, along with an affidavit by an official verifying that Obama was born there, and she witnessed the copying of the original birth certificate.)

My relative pointed out how he knew of two cases where the short form said one thing, but their long form certificates had different information. I asked him, "What does have to do with Obama?"

Then my relative had to go.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
12. Want to announce that it did the trick
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 09:11 PM
Sep 2012

he did reply with a, "...well I'm not going to bother arguing..." etc.... so, that seemed to do the trick. Great guy.... just brainwashed. I hate saying that, because he isn't low IQ. He's just seriously misinformed.... now it just matters as so how hooked he is on ego. Can he wonder then admit he was wrong?

It's a question that is verrrry hard for some. The real question for me is... "WHY?"

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
13. Yep, ridiculing works wonders.
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 09:22 PM
Sep 2012

I do that often with my conservative family. "You can't REALLY think that! that's been debunked SO many times! Only the crazies still believe that crap. Well, you have always been a little...strange...*wink, wink, poke, poke* hahaha!"

Another good tactic is to tie them to a group they dislike. My dad is a fiscal conservative but somewhat socially liberal. Whenever he comes up with stupid conservative economy talking points, I say things like, "Oh, I heard that from some right wing religious nutcase the other day! Maybe you should start going to church and helping them ban abortions too!" And I suppose if someone is anti-choice, you could say, "oooh, you believe THAT? That's like that group that wants abortions on demand - I heard them say that on the news..." They HATE having anything in common with a group they hate. It may not change their mind, but it shuts them up.

liberalmuse

(18,670 posts)
28. LOL, and it really does work.
Sat Sep 8, 2012, 11:20 AM
Sep 2012

Well, it shuts them up anyway. I just bring up my "crazy cousin". "My crazy cousin thinks that too. Too bad she refuses to take her meds" or, "My crazy cousin buries guns in the back yard and actually thinks Obama is going to take them away. Can you believe that?" - to my gun nut co-worker before she can tell me yet another update on "Fast and Furious". It's a way to nip it in the bud. Oh, and I really do have a crazy cousin who manifests the crazy only when she refuses to take medication. Odd that when she's medicated, she doesn't have any tea bagger tendencies...

Nine

(1,741 posts)
16. I don't know how birthers ever explain away the birth *announcement*
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 09:29 PM
Sep 2012

Forget the birth certificate, how do they explain the birth announcement in the local paper? There was absolutely no reason on earth to submit a fake birth announcement to a newspaper unless his parents had the foresight in 1961 to think that a mixed race child with a funny name, conceived out of wedlock, was somehow going to have a shot at being the President of the U.S. someday. He was already a citizen by virtue of his mother no matter where he had been born. The only thing that would have changed if he had been born outside the U.S. is that he wouldn't have been a natural-born citizen, which makes absolutely zero difference to anyone not planning to run for president.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
27. Oh, you mean that falsified copy of the Honolulu paper?
Sat Sep 8, 2012, 11:17 AM
Sep 2012

A forgery, of course. The Obama people snuck a faked-up copy into the newspaper's morgue files.


Never underestimate the power of a delusional hater to rationalize anything.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
19. I thought that too... but I know this person
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 09:45 PM
Sep 2012

....and I know this person's idiosyncrasies, so I must admit, I'm very surprised to read his views. It really isn't that clear cut at times.

But I understand that may just be my own wishful thinking.

CBHagman

(16,968 posts)
20. Multiple American newspapers of various political slants have already dealt with this issue.
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 10:17 PM
Sep 2012

[url]http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm[/url]

In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated Monday afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives:

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."

On Oct. 31, Fukino originally tried to put an end to the belief among "birthers" that Obama was born in Kenya and thus was ineligible to run for the office of president.


This one has a visual of the birth certificate, and an apology from some fool Arizonan who put the state of Hawaii through all this:

[url]http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/23/news/la-pn-arizona-obama-birth-verification-20120523[/url]

Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett has apologized for any embarrassment he caused his state when he revived a widely discredited conspiracy theory about President Obama’s birthplace by requesting verification that the president was born in Hawaii.

More links:

[url]http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/2012/05/22/20120522obama-birth-hawaii-arizona-verification.html[/url]

[url]http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/hawaii_verifies_obama_birth_records_pTBHkTUVHvtwbNG89J9GnO[/url]

However, indulging the "prove it" crowd feels like enabling. It feels like brainstorming for strategies to stop an abusive partner from flying off the handle. Why is the onus on you to prove anything?

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
21. Thank you... I have not
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 10:21 PM
Sep 2012

You know why? Because long ago, after I read many explanations, I literally never thought this idiocy could drag on as long as it has, and ever need to remember a ling to something that refuted such garbage.

But thank you, once again.

CBHagman

(16,968 posts)
22. You're welcome.
Sat Sep 8, 2012, 09:26 AM
Sep 2012

I suspect in some future time there will be media references to the birthers alongside those who doubted the moon landing, etc.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
26. I don't think you will ever change their minds. Even if you produce the dr and nursing staff
Sat Sep 8, 2012, 11:13 AM
Sep 2012

that was there when he was born. They don't want to believe.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
29. Just because his father was born in a foreign country means nothing.
Sat Sep 8, 2012, 11:21 AM
Sep 2012

George Romney isn't the guy running.

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