Number of deaths due to the movie "The Life of Brian" = zero

[Nye Bevan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_life_of_brian

Number of deaths due to the crucifix-in-urine display "Piss Christ" = zero.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_christ

I wish members of *every* religion would understand that their God probably does not want people to be murdered over this kind of stuff.

[naaman fletcher]

1. And if there were..

It wouldn't be Monty Python's fault.

[liberallibral]

2. +1,000,000,000

When Muslims go ballistic over articles, cartoons or movies that are "offensive" to them - they certainly get ZERO RESPECT FROM ME!!!

Such immature, irrational behavior.....

[kestrel91316]

55. Of course it makes perfect sense to condemn all 1 billion muslims

because of the actions of a minute percentage.

Silly me. I initially thought that might be racist and reactionary.

[Aristus]

3. Number of deaths committed by the "Crusaders" in the Middle Ages:

Uncounted. But likely in the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands.

Richard I, one of the "Christian" standard-bearers, was infamous for his slaughters of prisoners.

[Lex]

8. Exactly.

Christianity is not "above" religious atrocities.

[liberallibral]

9. That was the Middle Ages....

This is now..... Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and Jews don't seem to be killing people and calling for war, when cartoons or books with things they don't like are published.............

Silly equivalency....

Muslims that act like that act like spoiled children, with no regard for human life................

[Aristus]

13. Every faith goes through its periods of murderous fanaticism.

In the late Middle Ages and into the Renaissance, the Muslim world was a marvel of tolerance, moderation, enlightenment, education, and scientific enquiry. Now the religions have traded places a little.

Although Christianity seems to be headed back to the bad old days of ignorance, hatred, reactionary public behavior, etc...

[liberallibral]

17. Muslims ARE going backwards, I agree!

When Muslims kill innocent people and riot, over a friggin' CARTOON, MOVIE or a BOOK, they act like children or even worse, animals..........

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. The Crusades Happened One Thousand Years Ago

Aren't we patronizing if not infantalizing Muslims terroristsby judging them by 1000 A.D. standards.

[Nye Bevan]

23. And we're suggesting it will take 1000 years for them to stop doing this stuff (nt)

[Aristus]

28. I don't agree that we're doing either.

Murderous fanaticism is murderous fanaticism, no matter what era it's happening in.

[Scuba]

37. Ever heard of Ireland?

[Chorophyll]

43. Excellent point.

[kestrel91316]

56. You mean like McVeigh? And anti-choice terrorists?

[ButterflyBlood]

59. McVeigh was an agnostic anti-government nut

What the hell does he have to do with religious terrorism?

[leftynyc]

19. Oh for Heaven's Sake

Just how long you and your ilk going to go with this magical balance fairy bullshit? You have to go back hundreds of years to make a comparison and this doesn't seem to embarass you at all. Pathetic.

[Drale]

32. Thats the same argument that China trys to use to excuse its pollution problem

that they are in their industrial revolution and that when we had ours we polluted just as much. The difference is now we have the technology to do pretty much everything that needs to be done without pollution. We have evolved 1000 years since the crusades, which contrary to popular belief were not one sided, the Muslims got their licks in as well and all but the 4th crusade are deemed failures. We should be beyond this crap but with each step we take forward a small group of crazies is pulling us back. Even though most of the religious fanatics in this country have not become violent yet, they allow this crap to happen because they make it ok for religious people to be backwards and ignorant. They make it impossible to stamp it out in other countries because they have to hold on to their religions and start wars that have no merit.

[Aristus]

35. Environmental protection through restriction of polluting wastes is not a matter of technology.

The technology was available back when we were polluting so much the Cuyahoga River would catch fire. Rather, it was a desire on the part of the corporations doing the polluting to cut production costs by minimizing protective measures. They were only forced into spending more money for cleanup when it came with the force of Federal law.

Ands so it is with China. They want to do what we did, which was to make as much money as possible in as little time as possible, and damn the consequences. It is hypocritical of us to wag our fingers at China over this issue.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

4. Our Christians are much more evolved.

They have moved on to more refined activities - like bombing abortion clinics, bombing gay bars, gay bashing, shooting doctors in the head in church and picketing funerals.

We've come a long way, baby!!

[Gidney N Cloyd]

16. +1 !!

[chalky]

40. I need a freakin' LIKE button for this!

For now, I'll just settle for +1000.

[LadyHawkAZ]

41. This. +1

[Chorophyll]

44. +100

[ksoze]

5. That does not include those killed due to uncontrolled laughing

[DippyDem]

26. Now the Romneybot is after you.

[108vcd]

6. Christianity hasn't changed or evolved

The world in which surrounds it has

[thucythucy]

7. Although, as I recall, Monty Python did have to remove a scene

from the film, after it was already out in theaters, in which a "Jewish suicide squad" rushes in the rescue Brian on the cross, but all kill themselves instead.

There was an outcry that this was anti-Semitic, and so the scene was removed.

But of course I agree, murder in response to speech, art, expression of any sort is always reprehensible.

[Lex]

10. Number of deaths due to Catholics and Protestants blowing each other up?

[slackmaster]

11. There was far more outrage over Jesus Christ Superstar in the early 1970s

It was almost as bad a Y2K.

[lame54]

12. the only similarity between the 2 films is...

the both had producers by the name of Terry Jones

other than that - nothing

Life of Brian did not ridicule Christ

[The Midway Rebel]

14. Equivalency fail.

Logic much?

[closeupready]

15. +1000. Christianity is very blood-soaked - the Inquisition; 'conversion' of

New World inhabitants; Crusades; etc. The count is huge.

[Nye Bevan]

20. When DUers need to go back to the 12th and 13th centuries to illustrate their point,

it's a little depressing, as it suggests that we need to wait 800 years for Islam to become as civilized as Christianity is today.

[randome]

27. Maybe not quite that long but I mostly agree with you.

Western culture IS superior to the rest of the world if by that we mean promotion of the concept of equal rights for all, self-determination, etc.

Our culture isn't implemented seamlessly and we have our fair share of hateful bigots still, but in general the kind of thinking that led to democracy and the end of slavery, etc. are very much ahead of the rest of the world.

They clearly have some catching up to do and we should do everything in our power to stop senseless killings, ritual mutilations, child abuse, etc that some other cultures celebrate.

[Nye Bevan]

29. They condemn homosexuals to death. We allow homosexuals to marry (in many states, at least).

Yes. We are superior to them. A horrifyingly un-PC thing to say, so much so that it feels strange to type it, but it is true.

[randome]

33. 'Horrifyingly un-PC' describes it.

It's always best to point out very clearly that no one is saying we are perfect and we sure as hell have abuse, senseless murder, etc. as part of our culture.

But you have to call it as you see it, too.

[Spider Jerusalem]

61. In many countries, "the West" is not just the US

gay civil partnership or marriage is legal and recognised in most of Europe, much of South America, and Canada.

Same-sex marriage or civil partnership in the US is legal and recognised in Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York, Iowa, Vermont, California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Nevada, Oregon, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, Illinois, New Jersey, and Washington. That's 19 states out of 50 (accounting for about one-third of the population), and it's not recognised federally. One of the major political parties in the US has as part of its policy platform a proposed constitutional amendment limiting marriage to "one man and one woman".

[closeupready]

30. When people like you seek to divide DU's membership,

into Us and Them, I think it's bigoted and, do it enough, it ought to be against the Terms of membership.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

39. Isn't that what's being done....

....when you say "You can't make that movie (or cartoon) because it will inflame THEM"???

Can't have it two ways.

[dmallind]

34. Islam is 600 yrs younger. What was Christianity doing 600 yrs ago?

Not all paths are closely analogous of course, but we're not even due for the Islamic reformation for another hundred years if the faiths progress at the same rate.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. I actually think there may be something like an organic linear aging process for religious beliefs.

By that yardstick, Islam is going through it's Inquisition phase or so right now, which would make sense.

[Nye Bevan]

18. That's my point. No deaths versus many deaths means no equivalency.

There were, however, accusations of blasphemy and protests against the film. In some locations it was banned until 2008 and 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_life_of_brian

It would only be an "equivalency" if murders had been committed because of the movie.

[The Midway Rebel]

47. No, you missed the point. Your equivalency fail is here:

Islam and the Middle East = Christianity and the West

One has all the military, technological, communication power and global hegemony the other does not. One side invades sovereign nations with impunity, the other does not. I do not need go back 700 years to make my point. I only need to read a newspaper from yesterday.

[YankeyMCC]

22. Well that's a non-sequitur

Life of Brian didn't ridicule the religion or the profit of that religion.

And this isn't an either or situation or a situation to take sides in.

The people making that video were driven by ignorance and fear and did something as hurtful as they could in their way.

The people who choose to react to that with violence acted out of anger and ignorance and fear.

Both choices are the responsibility of each.

Both choices were hurtful.

Just like the response of the rioters was not appropriate neither is a response equating the two choices in level of hurtfulness.

The video makers deserve our highest condemnation in words and in actions like not supporting their organizations.

The rioters deserve to be punished with jail and whatever else will keep them from hurting others and help the people of the area find peace.

[4th law of robotics]

24. If Christians had rioted and murdered people over either of those things

would people here blame the creators of those pieces of art or those who rioted?

[cash__whatiwant]

45. Nope.nt

[hughee99]

25. I think for a comparison, I would have gone with "The Last Temptation of Christ"

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/25/movies/police-suspect-arson-in-fire-at-paris-theater.html

[MariaM83]

46. thanks -- I was just about to post that nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. I can't believe ...

we, here at liberal-labelled DU, are indulging this "evil Islam" conversation. Much of the language I am seeing, I saw just after 9/11 and still see on vdare.

[rollin74]

36. K & R some religious crazies are worse than others

no excuses for murder

[JHB]

38. I'll say it again: it's due more to a lynch-mob mentality than religion

It's a hardened belief that due to the outrage of (burned Koran/black guy "defiling" white woman in old South/insert your own) they have every right to visit any amount of violence against the designated target, usually with full confidence that they have approval from on high (tacit or overt).

[treestar]

42. It's not religion alone

Christians in the US know they will be free to practice their religion - we are secure. We know ( in spite of rabid right wing claims) that we are in no danger of having to live under a Muslim theocracy. There's no way Libya or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan can take over our country, bomb us in it, or kill us for being Christians.

This has a lot more underneath it than merely the film - the right wing would like us to believe that's all there is to it so that we can feel superior and justified in taking their country (oil). This has been going on for decades.

[bhikkhu]

48. We are tolerant, and generally secular

and even the fundies among us don't tend to form mobs and kill others or themselves (anymore).

So the question would be whether we, at our advanced state of cultural evolution (slight self-deprecating sarcasm should be noted), might modify our behaviors so as to help others along, rather than prod them backwards into rage and murder? Of course we can do either freely as individuals, but legality aside - if we were kinder people then we might be better leaders.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. I think the best thing we could do would be to offer them kind buds and High Def Porn

maybe some psychedelics.

I'm kidding.

No, not really.

[blogslut]

51. Are you aware the deaths in Libya are possibly the result of an organized raid?

http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloomberg/article/U-S-Envoy-to-Libya-May-Have-Died-in-Assault-by-3861267.php

[Scootaloo]

52. Number of deaths related to Jud Süß?

Got a figure for that one?

[Politicalboi]

53. There was uproar about this movie

Although I seem to remember it years earlier than it's release date. There was some buzz about a possible movie that "mocked" Jesus. I bet if The Life of Brian came out today the far right would go apeshit crazy.

[Summer Hathaway]

54. This thread has really been an eye-opener

I wish I had never opened it.

[6000eliot]

57. How about the number of deaths as a result of The Silent Scream?

Every religion has its share of religious fanatics. How is this line of argument productive anyway? Because some Muslims are violent fanatics what should be done? Should they all be killed? Converted? You're talking about billions of people, most of whom are peaceful. Get some perspective.

[killbotfactory]

58. The USA! 100% religiously-inspired violence free since.... August 2012!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/05/westboro-responds-to-wisc_n_1745173.html

Okay, you got me. that was just one crazy dude. Like the rest of the hundreds of incidents of violence against Sikh's since 9/11.

Yeah, most of the time, our religious fundamentalist brethren don't resort to violent mobs upon being presented with deliberately offensive art. But there are always threats, and there are always isolated incidents, and the only reason they don't feel emboldened enough to form mobs and act upon them, is because our nation has protected the right of people to produce and privately display this kind of stuff since.. oh, about the sixties, many decades before the internet and the instant mass transmission of deliberately provocative art/ideas came about. Nowadays USA style mob violence is merely relegated to sporting events, concerts, and racial tension. Because we are a cultured and advanced nation of highly intelligent peoples. What a bunch of silly, pathetic, non-cultured foreign brown people. Why did we help them, again?

[ButterflyBlood]

60. The whole thing is a smokescreen. "Angry mobs" typically don't carry rocket launchers

Is anyone missing this was also on the 9/11 anniversary? My guess: al-Qaeda stirred up riots over this bullshit "film" to use for cover and then hit the embassy. The whole thing screams "planned assault", not "angry mob".