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jpbollma

(552 posts)
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:14 AM Sep 2012

So Fucking Sick of Religious Nuts

killing people when they are offended. THis doesn't happen in the USA and Europe like it does in the Middle East. These people really need to get a fucking life. I really don't care about political correctness on this.

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So Fucking Sick of Religious Nuts (Original Post) jpbollma Sep 2012 OP
Had some kind of bible thumper knock on my door this morning wanting to "talk about the Bible." LiberalLoner Sep 2012 #1
And he didn't try to kill you? joeglow3 Sep 2012 #35
Take a deep breath ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #2
"THis doesn't happen in the USA" -- tell that to Dr. George Tiller's headstone. nt. corkhead Sep 2012 #3
"This doesn't happen in the USA and Europe LIKE IT DOES IN THE MIDDLE EAST." rocktivity Sep 2012 #7
our WBC and the other "kill for life" religously insane look equally crazy to me corkhead Sep 2012 #14
WBC couldn't fill a middle school auditorium, much less generate a murderous mob MNBrewer Sep 2012 #71
Double ditto SoapBox Sep 2012 #36
It is religion, because religion endorses belief based on "faith," not facts. Arugula Latte Sep 2012 #40
...excellant post. SoapBox Sep 2012 #42
Exactly. alarimer Sep 2012 #58
It's the fanaticism and the silent acquiescence of coreligionists which Skidmore Sep 2012 #44
when was the last time somebody was stoned in public in America? snooper2 Sep 2012 #54
doesn't happen in US? you mean, like the killing of abortion providers and staff? niyad Sep 2012 #4
The Salem witch trials was the epitome of religious nuttery in this country. Lint Head Sep 2012 #5
thank you for reminding us about that insane episode in this country's history. niyad Sep 2012 #8
Tell that to the Sikh Temple CJCRANE Sep 2012 #6
So we are reaching back to the witch trial jpbollma Sep 2012 #11
And this ISN'T an isolated event? gcomeau Sep 2012 #19
Fair enough. Your specific point is correct. CJCRANE Sep 2012 #20
people point out that what you are complaining about happens in this country, but you complain niyad Sep 2012 #37
As a gay male jpbollma Sep 2012 #48
talking about it...or doing it? MrDiaz Sep 2012 #87
If it weren't for a thin line of people standing between status quo and the culture wars people, Skidmore Sep 2012 #46
From your OP... luvspeas Sep 2012 #89
Religious Nuts work hand and hand with the schemes of the super wealthy. nt ladjf Sep 2012 #9
on the subject of religious nuts, how about a comment on the reichwing religious nuts who niyad Sep 2012 #10
Making the movie was poor taste jpbollma Sep 2012 #27
it helps, if you are going to criticize someone, to actually know the meaning of the niyad Sep 2012 #32
I love it when people resort to being grammar police joeglow3 Sep 2012 #38
and the typical comment for having it pointed out that you are incorrect. nobody WON anything niyad Sep 2012 #47
So what was your point in (not) equivocating the two? cleanhippie Sep 2012 #64
I guess it was easier to criticize my poor grammar jpbollma Sep 2012 #53
Post removed Post removed Sep 2012 #62
The poster did not equate the two treestar Sep 2012 #45
You made my point jpbollma Sep 2012 #49
Crazy? Hardly. Unless you are calling all people who have deeply held religious beliefs crazy. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #66
Depends on what the religious beliefs are. hifiguy Sep 2012 #76
You seem to be rationalizing. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #79
I think all "religious" beliefs are balderdash hifiguy Sep 2012 #83
There is no equivalency here. One made an inflammatory video RadiationTherapy Sep 2012 #61
Agreed. jpbollma Sep 2012 #63
Yep. One party acting assholish is no justification hifiguy Sep 2012 #75
Nope, the USA just invades and kills in the name of democracy, frredom and liberty. rug Sep 2012 #12
that debate has nothing to with this subject jpbollma Sep 2012 #13
Neither does religion. It's ideology. rug Sep 2012 #17
It has a damn lot to do with this subject. gcomeau Sep 2012 #22
Your argument makes sense jpbollma Sep 2012 #30
He's a private citizen who claims "Islam is a Cancer" SomethingFishy Sep 2012 #82
Fundamentalist religion is the only mental illness one can hifiguy Sep 2012 #15
Damned straight. Fundamentalism IS a mental illness. backscatter712 Sep 2012 #18
Just fundamentalists? cleanhippie Sep 2012 #68
Well, one doesn't tend to see Reform Jews hifiguy Sep 2012 #72
Can one safely say then cleanhippie Sep 2012 #77
Fundamentalist literalism is, IMO, a mental illness. hifiguy Sep 2012 #80
it HAS happened in the U.S. and it will again.... mike_c Sep 2012 #16
it's that asshole religious nut in America tht started this Whisp Sep 2012 #21
A big K and R. Alduin Sep 2012 #23
Death over religion has been happening since the beginning of time. Jennicut Sep 2012 #24
One of the oldest, and certainly one of the most stupid reasons to kill fellow human beings. backscatter712 Sep 2012 #25
The Muslim world used to be very advanced and civil. backscatter712 Sep 2012 #29
Very true. Jennicut Sep 2012 #33
Sometimes, I wonder if we are going to repeat that in the US. n/t RKP5637 Sep 2012 #59
It doesn't happen here because we have secular laws that punish those that commit these acts. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #26
replace "religious nuts" with "religion" NightWatcher Sep 2012 #28
It sure as hell does happen in the USA! Ever heard of George Tiller? Are you trolling? raccoon Sep 2012 #31
I love the " are you trolling" jpbollma Sep 2012 #57
Tragic, yes, but hardly comparable. MNBrewer Sep 2012 #74
abortion providers and staff killed, wounded or kidnapped niyad Sep 2012 #34
I'm more offended that the front page of my local paper was about the fucking iPhone than the embassy attacks. Initech Sep 2012 #39
Does the name Eric Rudolph ring a bell? KamaAina Sep 2012 #41
Christians would do it in similar circumstances treestar Sep 2012 #43
I'm sick of religious nuts of ALL stripes. AngryOldDem Sep 2012 #50
Yep. All fundamentalist religions are as dangerous hifiguy Sep 2012 #84
FYI: The original post clearly states that religious violence doesn't occur in the West LeftinOH Sep 2012 #51
Thank you jpbollma Sep 2012 #70
Your welcome- I've learned that it's best to be both emphatic and verbose on DU. n/t LeftinOH Sep 2012 #78
oh no, it doesn't happen in europe, except for the crusades, the inquisition, the witch burnings. niyad Sep 2012 #52
Are you stuck in a time warp? jpbollma Sep 2012 #69
I think his/her point is... cleanhippie Sep 2012 #73
We've got our share of religious nuts too in the US! n/t RKP5637 Sep 2012 #55
The global LGBT community is really, really sick of religious nuts. Zorra Sep 2012 #56
It happens in the US. Though, generally with guns. mzmolly Sep 2012 #60
THis doesn't happen in the USA and Europe??????? lunasun Sep 2012 #65
talk about reactionary jpbollma Sep 2012 #81
And don't forget the Romans putting people to death Seeking Serenity Sep 2012 #88
we have much better reasons to shoot each other lame54 Sep 2012 #67
What exactly is "The Middle East"? luvspeas Sep 2012 #85
I wholeheartedly agree with the first six words of OP Va Lefty Sep 2012 #86
A pox on ALL relgious fundmentalists - Hell Hath No Fury Sep 2012 #90

LiberalLoner

(9,761 posts)
1. Had some kind of bible thumper knock on my door this morning wanting to "talk about the Bible."
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:16 AM
Sep 2012

I was polite but just barely in my refusal. I had a hard time being polite this morning. Tired of religious nuts.

rocktivity

(44,555 posts)
7. "This doesn't happen in the USA and Europe LIKE IT DOES IN THE MIDDLE EAST."
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:23 AM
Sep 2012

Which it doesn't.

The danger of religious fanaticism isn't the religion -- it's the fanaticism.


rocktivity

corkhead

(6,119 posts)
14. our WBC and the other "kill for life" religously insane look equally crazy to me
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:31 AM
Sep 2012

I don't think it is right to single out a region as being worse, we all have our religiously insane.

MNBrewer

(8,462 posts)
71. WBC couldn't fill a middle school auditorium, much less generate a murderous mob
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:50 PM
Sep 2012

That they simply stand and hold signs and speak, rather than murdering, is testament that in large parts of the world the rule of law has overtaken the obligation to murder one's religious opponents. This is not the case in parts of the middle east and asia. Islam bears a particular onus in this, and as such should be particularly blamed.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
36. Double ditto
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:16 PM
Sep 2012

...to you and corkhead, on both of your posts.

Plenty of wacky, in all parts of the world, involved in most (if not all) belief systems...to do some serious crazy shit.

I am SO over the wacky and in-my-face-cramming-it-down-my-throat-holy-and-pious religious crap.


 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
40. It is religion, because religion endorses belief based on "faith," not facts.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:19 PM
Sep 2012

Funny, when you take facts out of the mix you can pretty much justify any belief and any behavior.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
58. Exactly.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:33 PM
Sep 2012

And it just encourages people to only engage with other people who think exactly like them. Think of the restrictions at Liberty University, for example, or religious homeschoolers. Their beliefs fail utterly when compared to reality, so they think the solution is to wall themselves off from any possible contradictory information.

Violence may be greater among some religious sects than others, but it's only a matter of degree. "Pro-life Christians" here incite violence every single day and sometimes it pays off, as in the murder of abortion doctors.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
44. It's the fanaticism and the silent acquiescence of coreligionists which
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:21 PM
Sep 2012

allow it to persist without criticism or condemnation.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
4. doesn't happen in US? you mean, like the killing of abortion providers and staff?
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:18 AM
Sep 2012

get a clue, here. the fanatics of the reichwing in this country are no different thatn religious fanatics anywhere.

jpbollma

(552 posts)
11. So we are reaching back to the witch trial
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:27 AM
Sep 2012

or some isolated events? Give me a break people. And please include where I said "like in the middle east". We are not on their level. Try going to the middle east and hold an anti Mohammed sign and let me know how that works out for you. In my original post and here I am not attacking any religion I am commenting on a region and a culture. Sorry, other people do have faults too.

 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
19. And this ISN'T an isolated event?
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:35 AM
Sep 2012

I must have missed where US embassies are being modded every other Wednesday and alternate weekends throughout the Middle East.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
20. Fair enough. Your specific point is correct.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:38 AM
Sep 2012

Religious freedom for all believers and nonbelievers is something that should be celebrated or at least acknowledged.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
37. people point out that what you are complaining about happens in this country, but you complain
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:17 PM
Sep 2012

it doesn't count because it happened so long ago? perhaps you ought to take a look at some of the writings of the reichwingnuts in this country, who are STILL talking about executing witches, adulterous women, and lippy teenagers. just to mention a few.

jpbollma

(552 posts)
48. As a gay male
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:23 PM
Sep 2012

I have no fear of being executed in the USA. Yes, the government denies me rights, but come on now. Such false comparisons. Here it is the "nuts' who write about executing people, in the Middle East outside of Israel it is policy.

Had to edit this post. iPhone typing is awful.

 

MrDiaz

(731 posts)
87. talking about it...or doing it?
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 01:17 PM
Sep 2012

the OP was obviously letting out steam. But there is also truth to what was said. These things happen ALOT more in the middle east than here and europe or russia for that matter. You can't justify 1 incident that happened over 300 years ago as being the same as what happened yesterday.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
46. If it weren't for a thin line of people standing between status quo and the culture wars people,
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:23 PM
Sep 2012

we would be involved everywhere you could find Muslims and defending the faith as marketed by Big Box Church and Big Bidness.

luvspeas

(1,883 posts)
89. From your OP...
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 08:25 PM
Sep 2012

THis doesn't happen in the USA and Europe like it does in the Middle East.

I think you are a shitstirrer

niyad

(112,435 posts)
10. on the subject of religious nuts, how about a comment on the reichwing religious nuts who
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:25 AM
Sep 2012

deliberately inflamed tensions with that dreadful film? they KNEW what they were doing.

jpbollma

(552 posts)
27. Making the movie was poor taste
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:51 AM
Sep 2012

killing people is beyond the pale. I cannot believe your are equivocating the two.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
32. it helps, if you are going to criticize someone, to actually know the meaning of the
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:09 PM
Sep 2012

word you are using:

e·quiv·o·cate
? ?[ih-kwiv-uh-keyt] Show IPA
verb (used without object), e·quiv·o·cat·ed, e·quiv·o·cat·ing.
to use ambiguous or unclear expressions, usually to avoid commitment or in order to mislead; prevaricate or hedge: When asked directly for his position on disarmament, the candidate only equivocated.
Relevant Questions
What Does the Word Equiv...
What Is Equivocality?
What Is Equivocal?
What Is An Equivocator?
Origin:
1375–1425; late Middle English < Medieval Latin aequivocātus, past participle of aequivocāre; see equivocal, -ate1

Related forms
e·quiv·o·cat·ing·ly, adverb
e·quiv·o·ca·tor, noun
non·e·quiv·o·cat·ing, adjective
out·e·quiv·o·cate, verb (used with object), out·e·quiv·o·cat·ed, out·e·quiv·o·cat·ing.
un·e·quiv·o·cat·ing, adjective

Synonyms
evade, stall, dodge.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/equivocate?s=t

so, no, I was not EQUIVOCATING the two, that is not possible.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
38. I love it when people resort to being grammar police
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:18 PM
Sep 2012

Nice way to make you feel like you "won" a discussion.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
47. and the typical comment for having it pointed out that you are incorrect. nobody WON anything
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:23 PM
Sep 2012

(at least, some of us don't see this as a battle or a contest, and it is interesting to see who does)

jpbollma

(552 posts)
53. I guess it was easier to criticize my poor grammar
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:28 PM
Sep 2012

than the thought behind my post. Fair enough, I should have used better grammar and it does matter. We obviously just strongly disagree.

Response to niyad (Reply #32)

treestar

(82,383 posts)
45. The poster did not equate the two
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:22 PM
Sep 2012

What about provoking people that you know are crazy? What's the point of doing that?

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
76. Depends on what the religious beliefs are.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:53 PM
Sep 2012

Are they like Unitarians or Reform Jews? This atheist has no problem with those folks, or even with most mainstream christians, Jews or the few Muslims I have met, who have been pretty secular. When you start advocating theocracy you have crossed the line into crazy, dangerous and a threat to your fellow human beings.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
79. You seem to be rationalizing.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:55 PM
Sep 2012

At its core, all religious beliefs are not rooted in reality. Believing something that is not rooted in reality is "crazy", no?


Sure, some religious beliefs are less harmful than others, but less harmful is a relative term.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
83. I think all "religious" beliefs are balderdash
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:58 PM
Sep 2012

and buncome. I respect Buddhism greatly because it has no avenging godhead and is a practice rather than a theology.

But yes, blind acceptance of reductionist, primitive religion - which is what all fundamentalisms are - is far more dangerous. When your desire is for a theocracy you have crossed the line of civil society.

RadiationTherapy

(5,818 posts)
61. There is no equivalency here. One made an inflammatory video
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:37 PM
Sep 2012

the others murdered people who had nothing to do with the video because of a set of personal, private beliefs. They are completely wrong and the freedom of expression is completely right.

jpbollma

(552 posts)
13. that debate has nothing to with this subject
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:30 AM
Sep 2012

Why are people so averse to criticizing legitimate human rights atrocities in the Middle East? These people did this because of a MOVIE. The US government has nothing to do with that. The lack of freedoms is astounding. Last time I checked Americans don't go running around attacking people over things like this in mass numbers.

 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
22. It has a damn lot to do with this subject.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:42 AM
Sep 2012

You have a populace in muslim majority countries that have seen the largely Christian west invade two of their nations and kill tens of thousands of their people in the last decade... and in the case of Iraq the excuse for invasion was transparently ridiculous and the leader of the country at the front of the charge was running around using the word "Crusade". It's soldiers have been caught burning Qurans. Its military is saturated in a culture preaching Christian evangelism to convert the people of the nations they've invaded.

And then we have a frustrated and angry populace getting whipped into a frenzy and rioting against one of the symbols of that nation in their midst when some idiot decides to toss a match on the pile of gasoline soaked rags that is the tensions in the area.

If you don't see any connection there I don't know how to deal with you. No they don;t have an excuse for killing innocent embassy workers but that's not the same thing as there being no cause and effect relationship present here that extends considerably beyond "they're those crazy middle eastern muslims".

jpbollma

(552 posts)
30. Your argument makes sense
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:56 AM
Sep 2012

in the terms of the awful wars we were a part of but this private citizen is not a government agent. IF he was, I could see your point. He is a private citizen. They don't have an understanding that our media and entertainment are not run by the government like they are in most of the Middle East. We have had plenty of conflicts with Europeans, Chinese, Russians, Japanese ect throughout history and they don't all go nuts every time their religious or political leader is criticized.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
82. He's a private citizen who claims "Islam is a Cancer"
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:58 PM
Sep 2012

I wonder if he had made this movie about Christians or Jews and claimed that they were a "cancer" if people would be jumping up to defend his "opinion".

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
15. Fundamentalist religion is the only mental illness one can
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:32 AM
Sep 2012

voluntarily buy into. What is so sad is that so many do.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
18. Damned straight. Fundamentalism IS a mental illness.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:34 AM
Sep 2012

Though I'd say it's more historical happenstance that you see more fundie violence in the Middle East than here.

A few decades and a few societal changes, and it could be very different - America infested with violent fundies and the Middle East chilling out.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
68. Just fundamentalists?
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:46 PM
Sep 2012

At what point do you draw the line between fundamentalist and not-fundamentalist, when they ALL believe in things that have no basis in reality?

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
72. Well, one doesn't tend to see Reform Jews
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:50 PM
Sep 2012

or Episcopalians, or even the more secular sort Muslims going off like this. I basically agree with Sam Harris that the "moderate" religious tend to enable the lunatics by never criticizing and marginalizing them, but fundamentalism (literalism) such as that of the ultra-orthodox, Xtian Dominionists and Islamists is a craziness all its own.

And I am a long-standing atheist.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
77. Can one safely say then
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:53 PM
Sep 2012

that religious belief is a form of mental illness, just that some is more dangerous than others?

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
80. Fundamentalist literalism is, IMO, a mental illness.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:56 PM
Sep 2012

To me the clear line is obvious - when you seek to make something like "blasphemy"
(which is a victimless crime unless you have proof to the contrary) or other "affronts" to religion a crime, much less a crime punishable by death, you have taken yourself out of civilized society.

mike_c

(36,214 posts)
16. it HAS happened in the U.S. and it will again....
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:33 AM
Sep 2012

As long as the religiously insane are afforded "respect" for their delusions, religion inspired bigotry and violence will be with us.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
21. it's that asshole religious nut in America tht started this
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:42 AM
Sep 2012

and oh please, you just don't bother your mind about all the violence you have in America. And the absolute religious crazies. Those qualities only belong to 'crazy religious zealot furiners'.

 

Alduin

(501 posts)
23. A big K and R.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:45 AM
Sep 2012

Except religious nuttery has killed people in this country. Refer back to the the Salem Witch Trials and bombings at abortion clinics for examples.

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
24. Death over religion has been happening since the beginning of time.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:47 AM
Sep 2012

And it used to be the Christians that were the worst (I am a Christian myself, by the way). People who are afraid of a changing world cling to what they believe they know and what seems stable. Why else did we once have "witch trials" in the US? I think we forget that the middle east and the Muslim world in general is far behind us in their own revolutions. We had two hundred years of practice at this and had the benefit of not having a former govt. and a religion so embedded in our way of life. And this is the extreme of the extreme over there.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
25. One of the oldest, and certainly one of the most stupid reasons to kill fellow human beings.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:50 AM
Sep 2012

"My deity has a bigger dick than your deity!"

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
29. The Muslim world used to be very advanced and civil.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:53 AM
Sep 2012

Why do you think a major branch of mathematics we all learn in school is called "Algebra"?

Most of the major stars visible in the night sky have Arabic names.

Why are we still able to read the works of Greek scholars like Aristotle? Because the Muslim world saved those works. Most of our copies are derived from copies found in the Middle East.

For a few centuries, it was the Islamic world that had all the best scholars and the most advanced science. During that time, the Christian world in Europe was burning witches at the stake and living in what we today call the Dark Ages.

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
33. Very true.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:09 PM
Sep 2012

I wonder what led to the fall of science and progress in the Muslim world? Was it economic, social, because Islam became very strict as a religion? Christians really went through that dark time where there was no enlightenment and I hope people don't forget that.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
26. It doesn't happen here because we have secular laws that punish those that commit these acts.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 11:50 AM
Sep 2012

Yet, if the Rightwing fundies have their way, this is EXACTLY the kind of thing one can expect.

Until we marginalize our own fundies, and get believers to keep their religious beliefs personal and to themselves, we are in danger of this happening right here at home.

raccoon

(31,091 posts)
31. It sure as hell does happen in the USA! Ever heard of George Tiller? Are you trolling?
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:05 PM
Sep 2012

George Richard Tiller, MD (August 8, 1941 – May 31, 2009)[3] was an American physician from Wichita, Kansas. He was the medical director of a clinic in Wichita, Women's Health Care Services, one of only three nationwide which provided abortions after the 21st week of pregnancy (known as late-term abortion).[4]

Pro-life group Operation Rescue kept a daily vigil outside Tiller's clinic for many years: first the national group, then later a branch that moved from California to Kansas specifically to focus on Tiller. On August 19, 1993, outside of the Wichita clinic, Tiller was shot in both arms by Shelley Shannon, who received an 11-year prison sentence for the crime of attempted murder.[5][6][7] On May 31, 2009, Tiller was shot through the eye and killed, by anti-abortion activist Scott Roeder, as Tiller served as an usher during the Sunday morning service at his church in Wichita.[8][9][10] Roeder was convicted of murder on January 29, 2010.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tiller

jpbollma

(552 posts)
57. I love the " are you trolling"
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:33 PM
Sep 2012

comment every time someone strays from the "orthodoxy". I think if you read my other posts you can see I am clearly a Democrat. That doesn't mean I have to fall into lock step on everything. I am a gay/non-religious male. I am recently unemployed due to a lay off. I don;t think I really fit the description of a "troll" from a conservative site. Come on now, that is just weak.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
34. abortion providers and staff killed, wounded or kidnapped
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:15 PM
Sep 2012

please note that this is only a small part of the list of violence against abortion providers in this country (the link below will show some of the rest).

. . . .

United States
Murders

In the U.S., violence directed towards abortion providers has killed at least eight people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.[8][9]

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility, the Ladies Center, in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003. The clinic in Pensacola had been bombed before and was also bombed subsequently, in 1984 and 2012.
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.
October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York.[10] His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.

May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at church in Wichita, Kansas.[11]

Attempted murder, assault, and kidnapping

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[12] Attempted murders in the U.S. included:[8][13][14]

August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).
July 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.[15]
January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

. . . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

Initech

(99,915 posts)
39. I'm more offended that the front page of my local paper was about the fucking iPhone than the embassy attacks.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:19 PM
Sep 2012

I shit you not. Go back to bed America - your government is in control.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
43. Christians would do it in similar circumstances
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:21 PM
Sep 2012

though religion is probably not the only reason here - in the middle east, religion and politics are mixed up. The hijackers for instance weren't only about religion but their religion is their politics too. For Christians that has not been so in the US, but where it was, look at Northern Ireland, it did cause killings.

The film is just an excuse.

AngryOldDem

(14,061 posts)
50. I'm sick of religious nuts of ALL stripes.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:26 PM
Sep 2012

Sorry, but I'm not singling out Islam when there is enough hate and intolerance to go around for everyone.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
84. Yep. All fundamentalist religions are as dangerous
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 01:00 PM
Sep 2012

as unsupervised weapons of mass destruction. Absolute claims to absolute truth are the mark of one thing - totalitarianism - when they are brought into civil society.

LeftinOH

(5,342 posts)
51. FYI: The original post clearly states that religious violence doesn't occur in the West
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:27 PM
Sep 2012
with the same frequency and high body count that it does in the Middle East. It just wasn't stated as emphatically. Abortion clinic attacks and Sikh temple shooters are terrorists, too, but the overall scale of such violence in the West is much smaller by comparison.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
52. oh no, it doesn't happen in europe, except for the crusades, the inquisition, the witch burnings.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:28 PM
Sep 2012

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
73. I think his/her point is...
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:51 PM
Sep 2012

that it is about religious beliefs that have no basis in reality. In the West, while those religious beliefs have not gone away, we have put in place protections, secular protections (laws) that keep those that still hold these beliefs that have no basis in reality, from imposing those beliefs on everyone.

In a nutshell, we, as humans, are still evolving. Evolving away from superstitions and unfounded religious beliefs that have no basis in reality. Some are just a bit more evolved than others.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
56. The global LGBT community is really, really sick of religious nuts.
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:32 PM
Sep 2012

They've been persecuting and killing us since forever.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
65. THis doesn't happen in the USA and Europe???????
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:44 PM
Sep 2012

Hitler
Crusades
Roman Catholic Church through the ages alone
far larger number of lives lost

none of it good, but looks like you got your good ol caucasian holier than thou(Arabs) stance up

reactionary post would like to unrec

jpbollma

(552 posts)
81. talk about reactionary
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 12:57 PM
Sep 2012

first of all I was commenting on modern times. We can go back in a time warp and find awful things everyone has done. This is obvious. Second, you assume I am white because of my comment. So basically you are a racist. good for you.

Seeking Serenity

(2,838 posts)
88. And don't forget the Romans putting people to death
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 01:23 PM
Sep 2012

for not worshipping the Roman panoply of deities. Like it was almost yesterday. I'm still smarting over that one.

luvspeas

(1,883 posts)
85. What exactly is "The Middle East"?
Wed Sep 12, 2012, 01:06 PM
Sep 2012

Which countries are you referring to? Which religions in these countries are you referring to? Who exactly are "these people"? No offense, but your comment has a certain vagueness to it that does not show much intelligence.

That said, A lot of this violence has less to do with religion and more to do with anger and frustration over a lack of basic human rights, poor nutrition and resources, lack of education, and a long history of U.S. and corporate (which usually translates into U.S. to most people) interference that makes desperate people extremely gullible and reactionary.

I hope you will try to consider things a bit more broadly.

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