Hillary-Biden Swap Seen as the Nuclear Option

[gateley]

Not only is time running out for it to happen and make an impact, but talk of President Obama swapping Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for Vice President Joe Biden has died down because the veep actually helps the president with his base.

Democratic strategists say that Biden is proving to be a valuable link between the sometimes aloof-looking president and labor and blue-collar supporters. What's more, they say, he hasn't made the types of embarrassing flubs, like those of former Vice President Dan Quayle, to force Obama to reconsider who's on the 2012 re-election ticket. /snip

Still, we asked pollster John Zogby if his surveys sense a desire by Democrats for the type of radical change on the ticket that party elders have been calling for, including talk that either Hillary Clinton or former President Clinton be put in the Number Two slot.

"I'm not picking that up," says Zogby. "It's really not even significant cocktail party talk." /snip

oel K. Goldstein, author of The Modern American Vice Presidency: The Transformation of a Political Institution, agrees. In a recent post on the Rasmussen Reports site, he also dismissed the gossip about Biden being dumped.

"Not since 'Paul is dead' has a rumor based on so little proved as enduring as the prediction that President Barack Obama will dump Vice President Biden," he wrote, referring to a furor in the late 1960s over false reports that Beatles great Paul McCartney had died. McCartney is still very much alive.

And, he adds, it would be better for Hillary Clinton to stick to her plans to leave the Obama administration in order to help her chances for running in 2016. "If she plans to seek the presidency in 2016, she may prefer to stand apart from a second Obama administration to protect her independence," he says.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/01/06/hillary-biden-swap-seen-as-the-nuclear-option

[madokie]

1. Biden and Clinton are where they are going to stay

Hillary is doing us good and so is Joe

[gateley]

2. Totally agree. nt

[TheWraith]

14. Indeed. This shit is just getting ridiculous.

It's been officially acknowledged that neither of them is going anywhere, period.

This is just some absurd shit getting drummed up over and over by people who are obsessed with Hillary Clinton, for reasons either good or bad.

[gateley]

18. Someone else posted it was thrown out there by the GOP to get the waters churning.

Don't know if it's true but it wouldn't surprise me.

And Hillary supporters would go with it, understandably -- I'd want MY fave person in that slot, so it just zoooooomed out of control.

And like most rumors, we pick them up and run... I've done it far too many times.

[CTyankee]

23. Actually, Robert Reich has been talking about it in his column or columns (just saw one today).

So it's not just "anybody" saying it.

I doubt it because I know thru a family member in Boston that Biden's political consulting firm has been gearing up for the election. I'll be happy to share what info I do know with you thru a pm if you want...

[gateley]

27. But I wonder where Robert Reich got it -- I think one of his columns said "I have no inside

information" or something like that.

Tweety is running with it, too.

I honestly don't think there's anything to it, and if there is, we'll find out soon enough.

But yeah, I'd love any info you may have -- thanks!!

[CTyankee]

32. Ok, I need to talk to my dtr tomorrow...I'll find out what's going on and PM you...

[juajen]

41. Not Hillary supporters. More likely the media trouble makers.

[roguevalley]

40. i would be royally pissed if this happened.

[Beacool]

45. No, they are not.

Hillary is planning on leaving the State Dept. early next year. She also has no interest in being VP.

[DCBob]

3. No need to do anything drastic at this point.

Biden is a major asset.

[gateley]

5. Couldn't agree more. nt

[frazzled]

4. "Not since 'Paul is dead' has a rumor based on so little proved as enduring"

That should be the headline for this story. The article's main takeaway is that there is absolutely nothing to this speculation.

[gateley]

6. Bwah! I loved that! And you're right - these things take on a

life of their own.

In the same Biden Alerts email I get, there was a link to lakenewsonline (???) and the commentator said s/he'd heard there is speculation of ELIZABETH WARREN replacing Biden! Lives of their own.

[treestar]

9. There is at least one post per week on this

That should be enough to make it true!

one has to be really nuts over Hillary to think it would make a bit of difference

[aquart]

34. Yup.

[Raffi Ella]

7. I love Hillary, voted for her in the primaries-

but I don't think he needs her. Seeing him in 'Campaign Mode' has reminded me that he is really good at it.

Obama Biden 2012

[CTyankee]

25. This raises a question in my mind as to what Hillary will be doing after the election.

She has already said she didn't want to be SOS in a second Obama term and she's said it from the outset. Not that this means she'd be looking to take Biden's place. But she's on the record for saying "no second term."

[Raffi Ella]

44. I remember her saying that.

I think we all thought it was because she couldn't run for President in 2016 if she were serving as SOS. I hope that's the case, that she's running in 2016. In the mean time? your guess is as good as mine what she'll do. I can't imagine her retiring though.

[jberryhill]

8. And UFO's might visit the leprechauns

I guess this is going to keep up right through the convention.

Ooh, ooh... Let me tell you about my fantasy baseball team.

[Ikonoklast]

39. Stop making fun of Kucinich.

'Elf' is the preferred term, if you please.

[jberryhill]

42. Awwww... Now you done it...

[sufrommich]

10. It was a rumor manufactured by the GOP to

cause infighting ,which of course always gets some DUers willing to play along.

[gateley]

11. I really wondered how it started -- It could be something as

innocent as me saying "Do you think if Hillary and Biden swapped places, Obama would have a stronger ticket in 2012?" And you saying to a friend "A friend of mine wondered if..." and THAT friend saying "A friend of mine told me that Hillary and Biden might swap..."

It's alarming how easy it is and how fast it spreads. And I've fallen for it too many times.

For the record, I like them both where they are.

[AtomicKitten]

21. Democrat Robert Reich wrote an OpEd advocating replacing Biden with Clinton.

here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/obama-clinton-2012_b_1173300.html

[Stinky The Clown]

12. This is manufactured poppycock from the Professional Shitstirrers (PS™)

They mention Big Dawg as a possible Number Two. Is that even constitutionally legal?

[former9thward]

15. Yes it is legal.

The 22nd Amendment says no person shall be elected to the office of President more than twice. Bill could be VP and if something happened that he became President it would not be through the election process.

[DeathToTheOil]

13. Not. Gonna. Happen.

/

[jillan]

16. Thank you for posting this. Even Zogby knows this is a rumor.

Imho - Obama/Biden are a perfect fit. They compliment each other so well, as this blog explains.

[gateley]

19. Aren't they though? (A perfect fit). nt

[high density]

17. There's no reason to change out Biden

This is nothing more than the "news" creating the news.

[gkhouston]

20. "Talk of it has died down" because no one was actually talking about it,

apart from rumor-mongers. I don't see Biden being replaced as VP, but if the President did that, I'd expect him to reach out for a fresh face, not someone as closely tied to his current Administration as the Secretary of State.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

22. 'Time running out'? NO--

IMO the main valid reason to swap out Biden would be to have a viable incumbent VP in the White House to run against Christie or Rubio in 2016. That presumes an Obama re-election victory in November. If Obama DOES win this year, he'll have FOUR YEARS to pick a future Democratic candidate and groom him or her for 2016.

IMO, opening up a controversy among Democrats now to pick a new VP candidate would be far more divisive than it would be worth in appeals to those who don't already support Obama.

IMO the key to re-election this year is UNIFIED Democratic support for Obama-Biden and their populist message against the Greedy Oil Party of the 1 Percent!

[Robb]

24. One of the more interesting parts of the Watergate scandal.

Nixon's team distributed leaflets just before the California primary, attributed to completely made up "peace committees" of various names. This was before the Humphrey-McGovern debates; it's a reasonable assumption they did the same kind of thing in other states.

Half the leaflets attacked Humphrey from the left -- accusing him of starting the war in Vietnam -- and the other half attacked McGovern for being anti-labor and anti-civil rights.

The net effect of course was to weaken both candidates going into the general against Nixon. It worked, too.

We saw the same vitriol sewn during the "Clinton-Obama Primary War" nonsense, and we're seeing the same stuff today.

Edited to add: A fun name to look up for interesting history: Jeno Paulucci. Humphrey supporter, lots of money, sponsored big anti-McGovern ad campaign. Later led "Democrats for Nixon."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=otkvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4mADAAAAIBAJ&pg=2403%2C187596
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=xRZPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=7AEEAAAAIBAJ&dq=paulucci%20democrats-for-nixon&pg=7173%2C2298884

[Raine1967]

29. Question...

IS this where the term regarding a rodent and fornication came from?

[Robb]

30. Yep. nt

[joshcryer]

31. That's fascinating, I didn't remember that aspect.

[moriah]

26. Or, Hillary may be leaving the administration to give another hopeful a chance at heir-incumbent.

Though women do live longer than men and Hillary has not had health problems -- her age is not nearly as big of a factor as it was for a medically fragile John McCain.

[gateley]

28. And I think Hillary might actually WANT to retire from government and work w/Bill (and

maybe be a grandmother???). Maybe I think that because I feel that's what she DESERVES. She's worked hard for a lot of years and been through the grinder a few times.

And McCain -- boy, I heard a sound clip on the radio the other day and although he's never had a Big Booming Voice, he sounded almost feeble. Different from how he sounded in 2008, IMO.

[CTyankee]

33. didn't she say she wouldn't serve a second term as SOS?

[gateley]

35. Yeah, but I honestly don't pay much attention to a lot of what they say because

they're always changing their minds. Plus, I think that was pretty early in the term.

[CTyankee]

38. As SOS, Hillary really shines, doesn't she?

It's almost like you can't imagine a man doing that job any more, if you think about it.

If there is any truth to this rumor, it seems to me that it would have to be that Biden wants to be SOS (rumor was that he would have been if Kerry had won).

[gateley]

43. I think she's been exceptional as SOS.

I think that's what Biden had his eye on, but when O asked him to be VP he had to make a decision. I think HE'S doing an exceptional job, too! If it ain't broke...

But that leaves the problem of finding a new SOS if Hillary does leave after the end of the term. I think it'll be a great help having Biden there helping out the new person, because I think he trumps almost everyone else I can think of in terms of foreign policy experience.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. Nuclear Option among crackheads and GOP shills.

Not gonna happen, nor are any serious people "discussing" it. This whole meme was made up by Frank Luntz to get people to maybe stop talking about the GOP clown car.

There is no good reason to do it, and if it was done, it would reek of desperation.

[karynnj]

37. I was in college when the "Paul is dead" nonsense started

I was also taking the freshman Physiology "rat lab" class. The TA for the class was very interested in the spread of urban legends, so he decided to take advantage of the fact that three students were older women (probably in their late 20s early 30s) from Bloomington.

When we arrived, we were told that ANY talking would result in a failing grade and given questions to answer - who is Paul McCartney, list 5 Beatles song - and list the last two things - true or not that you read about him. He found the women knew nothing yet about the rumors.

He then went through showing them all the things containing "clues. We all sat there knowing what they were suppose to "see" and even as he pointed various things out - ie "why do you think Paul is barefoot?" and finally playing Revolution Number 9 backward, they just looked confused. He then asked them to write what conclusion they thought from all they saw or heard - result - none came up with anything to suggest that signals were sent to imply that Paul was dead and replaced (apparently with someone left handed, who looked like him, sang like him, and wrote songs like him - because of course, there were lots of people with all four of these traits. )

I do think that the "swap" idea has had FEWER takers than the idiotic Paul rumors. (As one of the kids with a very cheap kid record player that you could manually turn backwards, I know almost everyone in my dorm played the record backwards.) In addition, rather than one DJ who started it as a prank, there have been some shameless RW media talking heads and political operatives on both sides who have proposed this nonsense.

The fact is Biden helped in 2008 and will help in 2012. In addition, he HAS been given more responsibility - even when he is given less visibility. Biden was the Obama person most active in working with Iraq. You can't get much more key than that - and he did it without anything becoming a negative issue.