I just watched the 14 minutes, or so, of the "trailer" of "innocence of muslims".....

[Gato Moteado]

...and i can't believe any muslims would be outraged by that ridiculous film. it looked more like something you would see on the "funny or die" website than a serious attempt at a film.

[Summer Hathaway]

1. I don't think the quality of the film

was the sticking point.

[Gato Moteado]

2. of course not.....

....but it was so ridiculous, how could anyone take it seriously?

[Summer Hathaway]

7. You seem to be of the belief

that a film belittling people's religious beliefs, and portraying their holiest of holies as embracing everything they find offensive, should be judged solely on its production values and not its contents, nor its intent.

But fear not, you are not alone in your assessment of things. This board is full of truly ugly, ill-informed, people commenting on this topic.

Tonight has been a real eye-opener about this site - and it's not a very pretty view, to say the least.

[Scootaloo]

13. It's really not.

For all its lofty progressive rhetoric, DU is as much a hotbed of bigotry as any given right-wing site. Maybe hte list of people it's okay to post hate about is different, or smaller, but it's still allowed. Islamophobia is a big one. I've seen posters advocate ethnic cleansing against Roma because "they're all thieves." Misogyny is alive and well and all over the damn place here.

That said, you're still not likely to find a better place for progressivism. My advice is slap heads, or alert the ones you just can't deal with, and keep in mind that for every worthless meat-waste bigot you deal with, there's at least a hundred truly awesome people.

[Gato Moteado]

19. histrionics

i haven't seen anyone in DU support the extermination of muslims. i have no idea what you're talking about.

freedom of speech protects even the people whose speech we disagree with. would you want it any other way?

sure, the douchebag that made and distributed the "film" certainly was trying to irk muslims. but if that's the way the radicals in any religion react, there is something seriously wrong and if you support that reaction, there is something seriously wrong with you.

[Scootaloo]

20. it's not an issue of free speech

it's an issue of hateful assholes having free reign to post their bigoted bullshit on DU, provided it targets the "right" groups. Muslims, Roma, women, the mentally ill, these sorts of people.

You haven't seen DU'ers supporting the extermination of Muslims? No, they just support a film and its maker, who advocates the extermination of Muslims. Because that's totally different.

[Gato Moteado]

30. i was neither supporting the film maker or the hilariously bad film

nt

[Gato Moteado]

40. you know, you and summer and a few others here......

.....have called me or lumped me into the category of assholes, bigots, clowns, etc, seemingly because i haven't jumped to defend violence that ensues after a group of radical muslims becomes enraged by something that offends them. you've also gone Godwin at least once in this thread, something i thought the DU community has looked down upon for years (the irony is that Hitler himself identified with radical muslims because of their shared hatred for Jews).

so, i point out the terrible production qualities of a film that make it totally laughable and ridiculous. you guys slander me and call me a bigot because i'm not sensitive to a certain religion (the fact is, i'm not sensitive to any of them). you've freely offended me, yet, i don't want to start a riot or come burn down your house.

[Scootaloo]

102. It's amazing to see how wrong a guy can be, with just one post.

First off, we're in agreement about the production quality of the film. That's really not in dispute. However, we're not slandering you - slander is defined by not being true, after all.

It's not about your position on religion. Who do you think you're talking to, here? I'm what some would call a "militant atheist," I believe - and freely express - that religion is a blight upon human society that has produced nothing positive in it's twenty thousand years of expression. Look around, if you like, I've been more than happy to point out that religion - all of 'em! - is a system that works to subvert ethical behavior as its primary function. I don't make "special allowances" in this, as far as I can tell, it doesn't matter what bizarre unreal system of belief someone holds, it's still a bizarre and unreal system of belief, and that person would be healthier and happier if they chose to unburden themselves of it.

So, don't pretend as if you're being "persecuted" for your views on religion. At least, not by me.

There's a distinction though and again you can find this in my posts elsewhere. Disagreeing with the idea of religion, or even just one particular religion, it one thing. Dehumanizing the people who believe it is quite another. This is where you - and the film you are spending so much time embracing - come in.

You see, the crux of your argument hinges on the notion that our five foreign officers were killed because Muslims were rioting over this film. That's your position, and it's what everything you've posted so far depends on. Unfortunately... that's just not how it went down. There were protests about the film, because the protestors had apparently been misinformed by organizers, and were led to believe that the US government had a hand in the film's production. A rebel group conducted a military assault in the midst of this, and the people who were protesting the film tried to fend off the attackers and help the Americans - and the day after rallied in support of the Americans.

When presented with this however, your reaction wasn't to go "Oh, I didn't know that, thanks for the information." No, your reaction was to double down about the notion that Muslims just riot and kill over any stupid thing. Rather than continue addressing the situation we're all talking about, you decided to change the subject to some other instance you think might support your position. And make no mistake, your position is "Muslims are inherently irrational savages." Anyone with a reading level above fifth grade can see it pretty plainly.

I've called you a bigot because you're consistently posting bigoted shit, in defense of a very clearly bigoted film. I haven't called you an asshole, though now that you mention it, I guess the term applies. I haven't called you a clown, because clowns are trained professionals and are actually good at what they do, and i would hate to insult them by associating them with some dude who's fucking incompetent at what he's trying to do.

I also haven't "gone godwin," about the closest I've come is comparing this film to "Jud Süß" in other threads (here I compared it to Hamas' Farfour) which is actually a pretty apt comparison... Except for the production values, I suppose.

Now take a moment and look at the stupid, stupid shit you open up this post with.

seemingly because i haven't jumped to defend violence that ensues after a group of radical muslims becomes enraged by something that offends them.

Yes, we're knocking you around because you're not defending violence, that's the fucking ticket. That's your key to success here. It has nothing to do with the bigoted shit you've posted, no, we want you to rally behind violence - oh, not just any violence, but evil nasty terrible muslim violence!

Seriously? This is the sort of thing you're going with, to protest that you aren't actually a bigot, is to triple down on the shit that's making people call you one? Let me guess - you're "just telling it like it is," right? Yes, like any good bigot, you're a righteous truth-speaker, and the people who are pointing out how wrong you are, well they're the real bigots for persecuting you, isn't that right? Oh, oh, not only are we the evil naughty bigots here for "persecuting" you, but since we want you to rally for "muslim violence" that also makes us dhimmis, doesn't it?



I'll bet you think you're clearing new ground or something.

[frylock]

111. man that was so well stated..

i really do enjoy reading your contributions.

[Gato Moteado]

119. i included you, summer and a few others....

...when i accused you of slander, godwinning, name-calling, etc. look back through the thread....it's all there.

and, yes, you did slander me by calling me a bigot. you know damn well i was talking about radical muslims, not muslims in general, when accusing them of rioting over criticism or mockery of their religion.

and you might have thought that everyone in the thread was "knocking me around" but if you take a careful look at the thread you will see that there are at least as many people, if not more, that think you're full of shit.

you and the rest of the people on your side of the argument came off looking like you are against freedom of speech and it appears you like to justify violence by radical muslims who are pissed off about shots taken at their religion.

and as far as you thinking i'm an asshole, i really couldn't care less what you think.

[Bo]

55. It is a free speech issue...and this is still America, he can state his views freely.

No matter how despicable we find them. Muslims do not believe in free speech. It's that simple.

[markpkessinger]

108. So, just let people run around creating international incidents that get people killed...

... because, after all, "This is America." Wow.

[FreeJoe]

101. I haven't seen anyone supporting the filmmaker

There is a huge difference between supporting the free speech rights of total assholes and supporting what they say. Remember when the ACLU supported the rights of Nazis to march? It wasn't because the ACLU liked the Nazis. It was because the right to free speech has to be supported for everyone or it isn't really free speech. Personally, I hope that the makers of the movie are all struck by lightning and die horrible deaths, but until that point, I'm not going to side with anyone trying to ban what they are saying.

[coalition_unwilling]

25. Geez, you must have missed the thread where a DUer referred to the Libyan protesters

as 'vermin' and, when called upon her choice of words, kept doubling and tripling down on the rhetoric.

Granted, calling a group 'vermin' is not quite the same as calling for their extermination, but tne Nazis routinely referred to the Jews as 'vermin,' a point that seemed lost on this particularly obtuse DUer.

[Gato Moteado]

28. you're right....i did miss that thread

and while i wouldn't call peaceful protesters vermin, if someone else feels that way or says it, what are you going to do?

i spent a lot of time on this forum referring to republicans as "human garbage". i'm sure glad i was protected by freedom of speech then.

[progressivebydesign]

83. do you mean the libyan protestors, or the libyan murderers? Seriously. I can't tell. n/t

[Gato Moteado]

87. i think in that person's mind....

...there is no difference. both seem to be justified equally to that person.

[obamanut2012]

84. Ugh -- I missed that

[closeupready]

47. Um, Mr. Rip Van Winkle, Pakistanis are muslim, for the most part.

nt

[Gato Moteado]

53. sorry......

...but you lost me there. i don't see anything in my post #19 that says anything about Pakistanis not being Muslims.

Help me out.

[closeupready]

45. Completely absolutely agree.

+1000. (from a member since 2003.)

[Gato Moteado]

14. well, i don't take religion too seriously.....

....in fact, i don't take it seriously at all. i think dogma is nothing more than a means to control people.

sorry if my lasseiz faire attitude toward the muslim faith (and all faiths, really) makes you think i'm ugly. I don't really care what you think.

what's interesting to me is that you sound like you are justifying the killing of innocent human beings by radical muslims because some crappy, slapped-together film ridiculously portrayed their "holiest of holies" as a twit. to me, THAT is ugly.

[Summer Hathaway]

22. I personally do not take religion very seriously either

But that is my choice.

It doesn't prevent me from recognizing that religion is important to others, who have as much a right to be respected for their beliefs as you seem to think you have for disparaging those beliefs.

Your OP is based on your premise that people should find it ridiculous based on its production values rather than what it intends to portray.

I am justifying nothing. I am simply pointing out the fact that your comments are reflective of a bigoted idiot, who doesn't understand the difference between a poorly-produced film and an insult to a faith that many in the world hold sacred.

You know, there were a lot of Nazi propaganda films produced at one time, showing Jews to be stereotypical thieves who would sink to the lowest depths of human depravity to make a buck, as was their wont. I suppose that if Jews had just recognized the poor production values of those films, they would have had a good laugh.

[Gato Moteado]

36. just because many people hold a belief sacred, that doesn't protect that belief from....

....scrutiny, criticism or even mockery.

is that going to offend some people? sure.

was the film maker responsible in doing what he did? no, of course not.

but that's what living in a free society is all about. and if fundamentalist muslims can't get over the fact that many people think their belief system is shitty, then they need to step forward into the 21st century. the same goes for fundamentalist christians or fundies of any other religion.

please, let's not pretend that islam (or any religious community) is above criticism. the middle east was a beautiful, tolerant, peaceful center of art, culture, philosophy, science and architecture before the fundamentalist muslims took control. ever since then, the place has gone backwards because of the stranglehold that the radical muslims have on the society. you might wish to defend a radicalized islam that treats women like second class citizens (at the very best) and like garbage (at the very worst) and that tolerates violence against those who they consider infidels or those that speak out against their religion. that's your choice. i disagree. i think all religion causes societies to regress. that's my choice.

[snooper2]

71. "a right to be respected for their beliefs", See, that's where the bullshit stops..one can "believe"

whatever they want..

I don't have to "respect" anyones silly mythological belief system. If anything we should point out how idiotic it is and hand out some science books.

How are we going to get more and more young folks to open their eyes and walk away from being brainwashed as young kids if we treat religion as some sort of truthy? Give it "respect", jeez hell no....

[riderinthestorm]

72. Apparently NOT having respect for religious beliefs means you are "reflective of a bigoted idiot".

Just warnin' ya snooper....

[Gato Moteado]

74. yes, i think i've heard that somewhere!

[Gato Moteado]

75. You got that right!

Coming from someone else who has no love for dogma and other forms of mind control!

[progressivebydesign]

88. so the people that bomb abortion clinics are okay, because it's their religion? nt

[Summer Hathaway]

107. I don't know what on earth you're talking about.

This discussion is not about violence being perpetrated by anyone on the basis of religious beliefs.

It's about the OP's asssertion that Muslims shouldn't have been offended by a film which he finds to be ridiculous and amateurish.

Please try to keep up.

[coalition_unwilling]

23. Bravo! Hear, hear! - n/t

[progressivebydesign]

85. Then why are you here? Seriously. If we all offend you so much, and are as bad as freepers.

Why stay? Find someplace where you don't despise the rest of the members?

[Scootaloo]

9. How dare people get offended by stuff that doesn't offend you, in other words?

I'll let P.Z. Myers take this, actually.

The movie that has provoked riots and murder in Egypt and Libya is a ghastly bit of hackwork associated with Terry Jones, the fanatical Christian pastor from Florida. Follow that link to see a clip: it’s incredibly bad. It’s got terrible acting, inconsistent and bad fake accents, white actors in blackface (poorly applied blackface, even), beards straight out of Monty Python, sloppy greenscreen work, and it goes out of its way to portray major figures in Islam as gloating gay parodies and pedophiles. It doesn’t just criticize Islam (and when it does, it does so with painful ignorance); it criticizes ethnicities, sexual orientations, and nations wholesale. It is simply a calculated, ugly insult with no redeeming qualities at all.

It does not justify rioting or killing people. But let’s not mistake what it is: the movie is the work of a group of incompetent fundamentalist Christian assholes pissing on entire cultures.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/09/12/lets-not-get-confused/

There's also the factor that the movie's main theme is that Muslims are a plague upon the earth that needs to be "dealt with," and the protestors were apparently told that the US government had a hand in the film's production... And the US is a nation that has a nasty habit of killing lots of Muslims.

[Gato Moteado]

17. people can be offended by whatever they want......

....it doesn't give them the right to commit murder.

[Scootaloo]

18. Good thing that's not the case, isn't it?

The embassy attacks were a planned and coordinated assault by the Libyan militant group Ansar al-Sharia, not by the people protesting about the film. The protestors happened to provide a decent cover for the attackers; security was busy dealing with the protest, and was apparently unprepared for an actual assault. In the aftermath, the very people who had been protesting the film appear to have fought against the attackers, and hurried to get the injured Americans to a nearby hospital.

I know that doesn't mesh well with your preconceived notion of "lol dumb fucking towelheads riot over everything lol lol lol" but that's what happened.

Remember a similar situation, the rioting in Helmland province, Afghanistan? A reporter claimed that it was because of one of those stupid Danish cartoons. What had happened was the reporter asked one of the angry provincials, if the cartoon upset them. Turns out, it did, so the reporter extrapolated that to "the riots are about the cartoon." In fact they were about the murderous and cronyistic governor of that province; the Helmlanders were trying to get him the fuck out of his position because he was funding militant groups that were robbing and attacking them.

But again... doesn't fit into the "muslims are dumb savages" meme that Americans seem to love.

[Gato Moteado]

24. hyperbole much?

i have no preconceived notions other than i think that people that cling tightly to any dogma are a bit confused. i have never equated muslims with dumb savages nor have i called anyone towel heads. i don't ever use the annoying chat term "LOL" in any conversation. i'd like you to stop making generalizations about me....you don't even know me.

i do, however, think radical fundamentalists of any stripe are twisted and dangerous people. And, are you really telling us that all the riots, bombings, death threats and assassination attempts resulting from the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy really didn't happen?

[coalition_unwilling]

27. I'm amazed that you're continuing to waste time debating this bozo. - n/t

[closeupready]

48. Ditto.

nt

[closeupready]

49. Wow. You are my new favorite poster here.

Delighted that you participate here. Cheers.

[HappyMe]

70. Well said.

[PA Democrat]

39. MSNBC reported that most of the protestors have not seen the video

and are reacting to what a handful of radical clerics are telling them.

[hifiguy]

41. When you outsource your thinking to preachers

nothing good can ever come of it regardless of the denomination of the preacher. Another good reason to avoid religion as you would avoid plague rats.

"Relieve us from the burden of thought"

"We're dumb!"

Futurama, A Pharaoh to Remember

[malokvale77]

103. So true...

I have a sign near my front door that says: If your here to proselytize, prepare to be offended.

[BarackTheVote]

120. Outsourcing your thinking is not an (R) or (TM) of religions

Freepers do what now?

[HooptieWagon]

92. The protestors didn't see it.

They were told about it by their religious leaders, who represented it as mainstream. Also, if the arabic dubbed version was seen, the viewers wouldn't know the original english version was also badly dubbed.

[Trajan]

3. Funny or Die has far better production values ...

There is no comparison ....

It's apparently offensive enough ....

[Gato Moteado]

5. Yes, I certainly didn't mean to diss "Funny or Die"........

.....I just meant that this film looks like something that was intended to be low budget comedy.

[LAGC]

4. Yeah, it is VERY weak sauce.

If THAT is all it takes to piss off radical Muslims, we'd better brace ourselves now.

[Gato Moteado]

6. i bet that thing will be a cult classic some day.....

...people will dress up like the characters and bring donkeys with them to the midnight showings.

[Summer Hathaway]

8. That is a truly disgusting comment

but somehow I think you knew that all along.

[susanna]

12. agreed. n/t

[Gato Moteado]

38. actually, i was making fun of the film itself......

....the characters (suburban looking anglos portraying semitic people) are laughable. and there's a ridiculous scene where the character portraying mohammed talks to a donkey.

my comment wasn't meant to attack islam or its people. i was pointing out that the film was even more ridiculous than the films that become cult classics for the very same reasons.

[Tom Ripley]

78. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 I am a fan of "Bad Bible movies" and this one is a classic

[Gato Moteado]

80. it's almost like slapstick

it's hard to imagine the film maker didn't intend that

[EOTE]

57. What, pray tell, is disgusting about it?

It's disgusting that someone would mock an extremely cheesy and offensive film? Methinks you're simply looking for another excuse to be outraged. I guess some really take a lot before they get their fill.

[Gato Moteado]

61. some folks just like to dominate others....

...and they'll take any chance they can get to do so.

i'm quite positive i've been guilty of it in the past as well, so i have a hard time returning their attacks equally as zealously.

it's sad, though, how quickly we still fall into Godwin's law and how quickly we can accuse others of bigotry, even when no bigotry has been shown (unless intolerance for radical fundamentalists is bigotry).

[EOTE]

62. It seems that way.

You certainly don't seem like a hateful person, sorry about the pile on. It seems that as of late, in order for one to be considered a progressive around here, they need to defend horrific violence. It's apparently taboo to say that some people can do horrendously awful things when motivated by religious zealotry. It's as if they don't realize that both sides of an argument can both be ridiculously wrong headed.

[progressivebydesign]

89. +100000 n/t

[riderinthestorm]

63. I know right? I'm shaking my head at some of the responses screaming that Gato Moteado is a bigot!!1

Or worse for his OP.

"Bigot" has almost completely lost its meaning here on DU and is trotted out for anyone who dares to question beliefs or positions in order to shut discussion down, even when the "beliefs" being questioned are as heinous as "insulting the Prophet means people should die!"

[EOTE]

90. I guess screaming "bigot" at those who think differently than you is the new face of tolerance.

Sad.

[ButterflyBlood]

11. Ever heard of "Turkish Star Wars"?

It's quite reminiscent of that.

[Scootaloo]

16. Never seen Dünyayi Kurtaran Adam, have you?

"Adam" is a fucking dumb movie with atrocious production value... and that's about where the comparison ends.

"The Innocence of Muslims" could be better-compared to that Mickey Mouse ripoff that Hamas uses to teach kids that the jews are going to kill them and steal their organs.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. Was there supposed to be a script? I kept expecting Salvador Dali to show up with a lobster phone.

To call it "non-linear" would be charitable.

[flyguyjake]

21. Just because it

doesn't mean anything to you, doesn't mean that it doesn't offend someone else.

Prime examples here in the US;

The Simpsons using the word FAG... may not bother you... pisses me off!

Comedy movies that portray all gay men as nelly... may not bother you... pisses me off!

Rappers using the word Niggah in their songs... may not bother you... pisses me off!

Teenagers using the word Gay for something lame... may not bother you... pisses me off!

And I'm actually very calm, cool & collected.

Whatever happened to "If you don't have anything nice to say then keep your FUCKING mouth shut!"

[Gato Moteado]

26. plenty of things are offensive to me....

....but i don't go out and riot or attack people because of it. do you?

whatever happened to "freedom of speech'? or is there only freedom of speech when the speech is not offensive to you and if it is, then "people need to keep their FUCKING mouth shut"?

[Summer Hathaway]

29. Your OP isn't about freedom of speech

it's about Muslims being outraged by a 'ridiculous film'.

Too late in the proceedings to pretend this was about free speech - instead of being about a bigot doing a movie review.

[Gato Moteado]

34. true that the OP was not about freedom of speech.....

but it became that when you entered the discussion and started verbally attacking and slandering me.

[Summer Hathaway]

104. I don't know why you would feel attacked or slandered

My replies have poor production values. Ergo, you shouldn't be offended.

[progressivebydesign]

96. "Bigot" Wow.. you throw that around with such surety. The OP was right..

the film was amateurish as best. And his opinion was valid. Though I can't personally know what it's like to be a religious extremist, who would watch a Glenn Beck show and bomb an abortion clinic, or listen to G.Gordon Liddy and plot agains the Govt because I believe my religion is being threatened, so I can't speak to how the production quality affects that.

But I DO know that the film is a hack job... and the comment the OP made was valid, it's something that anyone would say about a lot of things. Every religion is different, but the comment was valid, that it's hard to imagine anyone would take that seriously. A reasonable person would wonder that out loud.

I think that you, and a handful of others, are purposely missing the point. The point was NOT a dig at Muslims, it was a dig at the POS film that was produced after the writer/director gathered millions from christian extremists to fund it.

[frylock]

112. no, the OP was born of sheer ignorance..

the fact that the OP can't admit to that ignorance, continues to double and triple down on the aforementioned ignorance, and continues to shift goalposts, only serves to betray his bigotry.

[flyguyjake]

31. Ok so "Freedom of Speech"

Then why don't you go to the South and call a black person a nigger. See what happens

Why don't you go to San Fransisco and call a buff gay male a Fag. See what happens

Why don't you go to Watts and call a Latino a wetback. See what happens

You can freely rob a bank... why don't you

You can drink and drive... why don't you

you can rape a little girl... why don't you

Just because doesn't mean you should!

[Gato Moteado]

33. Come on now......

....are you seriously comparing freedom of speech (in this case some demented fundy Christian making a shitty film slamming the fictional characters of some other religion) to:

verbal assault
robbery
drinking and driving
rape

If you really think there's any similarity between one and the others then you've already lost the debate.

the film maker was protected by the US constitution to do what he did. now, was he sensible and responsible in releasing a film that he knew would potentially cause a serious blowback that could result in the deaths of people that had nothing to do with the film? no, he was not.

[EOTE]

60. Wow, you really need to educate yourself. Your post is utterly lacking in logic.

No one has the right to rob a bank or drink and drive or rape anyone. Why on earth would you even bring those examples up? We do, however, have the 1st amendment. And a number of people here seems to think that that means extremely little.

[Seeking Serenity]

64. Not a great analogy

Then why don't you go to the South and call a black person a n----r. See what happens

A better analogy in your situation is, go to the South and call a black person the n-word, and then other black people who heard reports that you said it goes and beats up a completely unrelated white person.

[Gato Moteado]

67. Bingo!

where were you guys yesterday when absurdity was abounding here?

[Seeking Serenity]

69. Teh absurdity yesterday was too thick to penetrate

[Gato Moteado]

73. well we're glad you're here now!

[progressivebydesign]

93. check yourself before you wreck yourself. n/t

[progressivebydesign]

91. they have treatment for rage issues. You might want to find one, tons of outrage ^^^ nt

[GeorgeGist]

32. If deranged Muslims are like deranged Christians ...

I doubt many bothered to watch before getting outraged.

[Barack_America]

35. People in Libya and Yemen aren't seeing the film. They're hearing about it.

And reports are being greatly exaggerated.

[Blue_Tires]

50. Exactly...

Last edited Thu Sep 13, 2012, 02:56 PM - Edit history (2)

And they had the Arab world counterpart to Glenn Beck get howling, screaming mad on his TV show

[DCBob]

37. Its trash but its understandable some would be offended by it.

What's rediculous though is blaming the American government for this stupid film.

[jp11]

42. I think the issue you have with not thinking any muslims would be outraged by

that fillm is you are only thinking of sane muslims not the crazy ones that consider themselves supremely holy followers of islam and are willing to kill for any offence they perceive against them or their faith.

Most people don't fall into the category of extremist whackjob who think that their god or faith needs them to protect or defend it.

[Gato Moteado]

46. i agree with you 100%

i think the guy that made the film is a moron. but that said, it doesn't excuse what the extremists do in response.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

43. It's easy to take it as a joke from American eyes....

.....but when you would consider it from the perspective of a Muslim living in the Middle East, it comes off as cruel mocking by American actors of their religious belief, so I can understand why they might be offended.

It was horrible though. When I first heard the story, I honestly expected an artfully done yet controversial piece, a la "The Last Temptation of Christ" or something similar. Not that.

[TheKentuckian]

65. I understand being offended, the response to the offense is my issue.

[Gato Moteado]

66. exactly!

nt

[frylock]

113. the response was that people protested the film in front of the consulate..

are you suggesting they don't have the right to protest?

[TheKentuckian]

117. Nope, 100% fine with that. I'm hung up on the murdering

[frylock]

118. and as has been explained throughout the thread, it wasn't the protesters..

it was a group of opportunistic assholes associated with al-qaeda that used the protest as cover. the protesters actually assisted with the fighting and attempted to help the consulate employees.

[TheKentuckian]

121. That being the case then what is the point of the entire discussion about

the film producers being accountable and endangering lives when you are saying that there was no such event and murderous fucks are just being murderous fucks.

I'll buy but that means the whole discussion is moot so get with those that are all hot to hold some bigot accountable for causing a reaction that got folks killed. It seems to be important to get that message out because people are still wailing about what you assert has little to do with the worst parts of the mess.

[backscatter712]

44. I watched it myself. I can see why Muslims are offended.

It's bigoted, it's vulgar, it gets basic facts completely wrong, it violates almost every religious norm Islam has.

It's also so badly made that I could make an episode of MST3K out of it.

[Gato Moteado]

51. agreed!

i also think that the fundamentalist muslims also violate the religious norms of islam. i can never justify what they, or radicals in any religion, do in the name of their faith.

even if 1000 islamophobic douchebags each make a movie like this one, people that are offended should ignore it rather than resorting to violence because i believe that violence violates the essential message of EVERY religion.

[SunsetDreams]

52. Since I'm not a Muslim...

I'll let them decide whether it was offensive or not.

[amlehn]

54. I just don't get it

Such violence over a movie, be it Youtube, or whatever. We're looking at 3rd world countries that don't have access for twitter, or Youtube on their Iphones. Where did this come from? My local theater has Obama 2012 showing and I'm not causing a revolt. What gives?

[CJCRANE]

56. If we look at the reaction on both sides, we can see how it escalates.

Firstly a TV pundit in Egypt found the video and talked about it on his show. He probably said something like "look at this, these people hate us, they want to destroy our culture".

An muslim priest probably saw that and said the same thing to his congregation and expanded on it and gave a list of grievances. Now you have a mob of riled up religious people.

People start protesting, maybe the cops get out of hand, who knows.

But also look at the reaction in America. Repub pols and pundits stir up the situation. The tea partiers are up in arms: "this is an act of war! Let's bomb them!" And they don't even know who they're going to bomb, they just want to return violence with a larger amount of violence directed who knows where.

[Gato Moteado]

59. great post

and very true.

our societies (even the ones that supposedly adhere to the principles of their faiths) have become too quick to resort to violence. and violence just creates more violence.

[Ganja Ninja]

58. We're not getting the Arabic dubbed version either.

The whole thing was meant to be as insulting as possible but some of the dialog was pretty blatant. God only knows the slurs and insults that were included in the Arabic voice over.

[Roland99]

68. Doesn't matter to brainwashed fundamentalist fanatics.

[arcane1]

76. I'm curious to know how the Arabic dubbing differs from the English, if at all n/t

[valerief]

77. Yeah, but the movie was just an excuse for terrorists to do their thing. nt

[Speck Tater]

79. They were not outraged by the film

because they never watched the film.
They were outraged because they were told to be outraged.
Reports on the ground asked protesters if they had watched the film or the trailer and NOT ONE claimed that they had.

[Gato Moteado]

81. they are exactly the muslim version of tea baggers and freepers!

nt

[obamanut2012]

82. It was a filmed Chick tract

Offensive, unchristian, and full of lies and hate.

[slackmaster]

86. I think the "trailer" is actually the entire movie

It's basically a big hoax.

[gordianot]

97. Yes I do hope someone investigates this and publishes facts and names...too much to hope.

Salman Rushdie still has to hide. The assholes who perpetrated this hoax deserve to have their name published unlike Rushdie who was a victim.

[Tom Ripley]

99. I agree with you (n/t)

[frylock]

114. i believe that to be the case as well..

surely someone has contacted the theater in hollywood where it was alleged to have screened to verify that.

[Laxman]

95. Who Are These People....

and why do they keep leaving their comic books in the men's room?

I wouldn't be surprised to find a connection between Chick and this movie.

[gordianot]

94. It was designed to evoke a response and it did even in it's form as a trailer.

A little PR helped created by opportunist and exploited by opportunist radicals including a certain GOP Presidential candidate. I take it that any idiot who wants to burn a Koran, get published a cartoon slamming Mohammed, with news coverage can do the same by lighting a short fuse. To be fair you can do the same with Fundie Christo fascist in America. Religious fundamentalist are a threat no matter the religion wherever they live in the world.

[progressivebydesign]

98. Perfect post. With that post, I'm leaving this thread. It's making my head hurt. n/t

[Green_Lantern]

100. many of the people protesting the film may not have even seen it....

Think about how many Americans get pissed off about movies they haven't seen but just heard about.

They couldn't have seen how stupid it was if they didn't see it.

[MNBrewer]

105. THis isn't about the film at all

It's a convenient excuse.

[6000eliot]

106. It's not a legitimate movie. It's an act of provocation.

And I think that it wasn't an accident that it was released during the campaign

[jethro_troll]

109. And you believe everything that is spoonfed you by the propagandists

otherwise known as MSM? I think that is far more unbelievable.

[jethro_troll]

110. It's ridiculous that anyone buys this.

[CJCRANE]

115. Most of the outraged people probably just heard about it from TV pundits, politicians and priests.

The low-information types who don't check things for themselves.

[rock]

116. I catch your drift.

My one word review of the film (based on the long trailer) is "silly."

[lanlady]

122. I watched the first few minutes

The film makes Plan 9 From Outer Space looked like Citizen Kane by comparison. So sleazy and idiotic. You'd have to be a deranged person to have anything to do with its production.