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Thu Apr 23, 2020, 12:47 PM

Nicotine being tested for Covid-19 treatment. More woo?

Nicotine really makes a nice insecticide barrier for my raspberries and other vulnerable plants in my garden. I won't use any chemical out here so I'm always trying organic home methods.

Are smokers really being infected at a lower rate? Accurate information comes as a rarity these days.

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Reply Nicotine being tested for Covid-19 treatment. More woo? (Original post)
nilesobek Apr 2020 OP
Newest Reality Apr 2020 #1
zonemaster Apr 2020 #2
Newest Reality Apr 2020 #6
Celerity Apr 2020 #7
Yonnie3 Apr 2020 #3
SoCalNative Apr 2020 #9
Yonnie3 Apr 2020 #12
Aristus Apr 2020 #17
Yonnie3 Apr 2020 #20
Aristus Apr 2020 #21
nilesobek Apr 2020 #15
yellowcanine Apr 2020 #4
mr_lebowski Apr 2020 #8
yellowcanine Apr 2020 #14
nilesobek Apr 2020 #16
at140 Apr 2020 #5
Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2020 #10
Dem2 Apr 2020 #22
Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2020 #23
Dem2 Apr 2020 #27
Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2020 #28
Aristus Apr 2020 #24
LineLineLineNew Reply +
struggle4progress Apr 2020 #25
Mike 03 Apr 2020 #11
Igel Apr 2020 #19
Tech Apr 2020 #13
LizBeth Apr 2020 #18
Initech Apr 2020 #26

Response to nilesobek (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 12:51 PM

1. Do you have...

Do you have any context or references to offer on that? Links are also useful.

Thanks.

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Response to zonemaster (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 12:58 PM

6. Thanks.

Well, I think of The Guardian as a reasonable source, comparatively.

It is the clinical trials aspect that is important here. The data suggests the possibility, but at this point it is speculative.

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Response to zonemaster (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:00 PM

7. smoke 'em if you got 'em

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Response to nilesobek (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 12:54 PM

3. Nicotine patches being tested not smoking

Smokers are reported as having a higher risk of serious cases of CoViD-19, but I see this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/french-study-suggests-smokers-at-lower-risk-of-getting-coronavirus


French researchers to test nicotine patches on coronavirus patients

Study – which stresses serious health risks of smoking – suggest substance in tobacco may lower risk of getting coronavirus


French researchers are planning to test nicotine patches on coronavirus patients and frontline health workers after a study suggested smokers may be much less at risk of contracting the virus.

The study at a major Paris hospital suggests a substance in tobacco – possibly nicotine – may be stopping patients who smoke from catching Covid-19. Clinical trials of nicotine patches are awaiting the approval of the country’s health authorities.

However, the researchers insisted they were not encouraging the population to take up smoking, which carries other potentially fatal health risks and kills 50% of those who take it up. While nicotine may protect those from the virus, smokers who have caught it often develop more serious symptoms because of the toxic effect of tobacco smoke on the lungs, they say.

The team at Pitié-Salpêtrière hospital questioned 480 patients who tested positive for the virus, 350 of whom were hospitalised while the rest with less serious symptoms were allowed home.

It found that of those admitted to hospital, whose median age was 65, only 4.4% were regular smokers. Among those released home, with a median age of 44, 5.3% smoked.

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Response to Yonnie3 (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:05 PM

9. It isn't the nicotine

in cigarettes that causes major health issues and the propensity for greater lung infections.

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Response to SoCalNative (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:10 PM

12. of course ...

however some do not seem to understand that.

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Response to SoCalNative (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:54 PM

17. This is not strictly true, but it is a common subject of wish fulfillment in nicotine addicts.

Nicotine in its pure form, dissociated from tobacco smoking, does not seem to cause heart attacks or strokes. But as a powerful vasoconstrictor, it can reduce gas exchange in the lungs, and over time, can cause chronic microvascular ischemic changes in the brain, which can lead to memory loss. Also, as a stimulant, it can disrupt the user's circadian rhythm, leading to sleep deficit and the cognitive changes that come with it.

Nicotine users can come up with many excuses to not quit nicotine use, and this one is growing in popularity. But it is misleading to a significant extent.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:52 PM

20. Yes, an an addict, I see my BP go up with nicotine gum.

That can't be good.

I quit the cancer sticks, now I'll be tapering off the gum.

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Response to Yonnie3 (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:58 PM

21. Good. Best thing you can do.

I tell my patients that, as good for your physical health quitting cold turkey would be, it is a nightmare for your psychological health. It's the biggest reason why smokers fail to quit.

I always tell them to taper off slowly. This not only reduces your tolerance and dependence on nicotine in a bearable way, it also decreases the psychological need to go digging around for the pack, and the ritual of lighting up.

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Response to Yonnie3 (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:42 PM

15. Thanks a lot for the information.

It would be fascinating to get real numbers when the French study is completed.

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Response to nilesobek (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 12:55 PM

4. err - Nicotine is a chemical. And it is extremely toxic.

Just because it is organic does not mean it isn't a toxic chemical pesticide.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:04 PM

8. If you wanna get technical, everything that exists is a chemical or combination of chemicals ...

Well, I mean physically exists ... water, air, us, everything.

Maybe something like dark matter isn't a chemical, and theoretically 'exists' but ... almost everything.

But you're right about concentrated nicotine, it is highly toxic.

To your point, it's kinda like just because morphine is a naturally occurring substance doesn't mean it's not addictive and can't kill you through overdose.

A substance being naturally-occurring (or conversely, not) has absolutely no relevance to its safety profile.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:22 PM

14. Several botanicals are quite toxic....

Nicotine more than most, but rotenone and pyrethrin also have high mammalian toxicity. Neem is fairly safe but exposure is not recommended for pregnant women. Unfortunately there is a lot of "if it is naturally occuring it is safe." I guess people have not heard of poison frogs, ricin from castor beans, atropine, etc.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:53 PM

16. Sorry, I meant I pour out lines of tobacco in the garden.

Not nicotine. Holy cow thanks for pointing that out. My bad.

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Response to nilesobek (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 12:57 PM

5. Survival rate for seriously ill covid-19 patients is dependent on one thing more than others....

access to a quality ventilator. The ventilator is very useful fighting severe pneumonia. I speak from first hand experience watching my wife in coma from double pneumonia was placed on a ventilator in ICU for several days and she eventually recovered fully! Without the ventilator forcing air in her lungs she had no chance.

So good to see USA now has surplus ventilators and is now helping Mexico, Spain, France, Italy with surplus ventilators.

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Response to nilesobek (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:07 PM

10. I suspect smoking isn't quite as risky as...

... other risk factors for Covid-19 like hypertension, obesity and diabetes.

Asthma doesn’t seem to be nearly as risky as previously thought, according to the recent study from New York.

I would be SHOCKED if smoking actually helped, though.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:59 PM

22. Do you have a link?

I've been observing the NY state statistics, but hadn't seen the study WRT asthma. My mom is 85 and has asthma, so it's important to me.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #22)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 04:09 PM

23. Glad that I saw your request!

I was getting ready to log off.

Yeah, here’s the Washington Post link and text.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/22/coronavirus-ventilators-survival/

The paper also found that of those who were hospitalized, 57 percent had hypertension, 41 percent were obese and 34 percent had diabetes which is consistent with risk factors listed by the Centers for Disease for Control and Prevention. Noticeably absent from the top of the list was asthma. As doctors and researchers have learned more about covid-19, the less it seems that asthma plays a dominant role in outcomes.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #23)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 06:55 PM

27. Thanks!

I forwarded this info to my mom.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #27)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 07:02 PM

28. You're welcome!

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 04:10 PM

24. I'm sorry, but smoking is a risk factor for all of those, and an exacerbating factor,

as well.

Any compromise to the health of the lungs is going to make COVID-19 more difficult to survive.

There is nothing you can have that can't be made worse by smoking, and nothing you can have that can't be made better by quitting.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 04:32 PM

25. +

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Response to nilesobek (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:08 PM

11. I can't find much on the antiviral properties of nicotine, just

one paper I don't want to pay to access:

S1932 Effect of Nicotine On Innate Antiviral Pathways and HCV Replication
Yamashina et al., 2008
https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(08)63674-4/pdf
(Sorry, this link keeps posting as a broken link)

Supposedly the study asserts nicotine prevents Hepatitis C viral replication.

Nicotine causes dose-dependent inhibition of the growth of various bacterial and fungal pathogens (Pavia et al., 2000 ), and has been shown to kill parasitoids in two caterpillar species (Barbosa et al., 1986). Nicotine also has antiviral effects, as shown for the hepatitis C virus, where the alkaloid inhibits viral replication (Yamashina et al., 2008 ). In a recent study, another nectar alkaloid, gelsemine, reduced infection by a protozoan pathogen (Crithidia bombi) in bumble bees (Manson et al., 2010).


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/246722772_S1932_Effect_of_Nicotine_On_Innate_Antiviral_Pathways_and_HCV_Replication

Doubt much will come of this, but we'll see. The xylitol in Nicorette also does some interesting things.

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Response to Mike 03 (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:35 PM

19. Might not have to do with viral replication at all.

Perhaps blood pressure, anticlotting, gas transfer, or something completely different.

I'd assume replication's the least likely--like preventing attachment of the virion to a cell and injection of the RNA, that's a pretty small target.

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Response to nilesobek (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:14 PM

13. My husband laughed as I told him we needed to start smoking again. I think it was because

I was setting up my nebulizer.

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Response to nilesobek (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:26 PM

18. Omg, this did not help with 14 days not smoking after 4 decades. This did. not. help. one bit. Lol

(Good thing I did not quit because of the virus but cause was hard to breathe sometimes and coughin' and rattlin', lol).

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Response to nilesobek (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 04:38 PM

26. This is a respiratory illness right?

How are you supposed to fight a lung disease if your lungs are fried from tobacco smoke? This doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

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