Is everyone dying of COVID in the most horrible distress they talk about?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

They say, like you are drowning?

Or are some people sedated and don't have to die in that way?

[BigmanPigman]

1. I think most of those on ventilators

were sedated to allow the machines and tubes to do their work with as little discomfort as possible. Most of those on ventilators also die. I think having them on lie their stomachs works best, for a while anyway.

This is what I have heard and read over the past few weeks and am not a medical expert.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

5. Yes, was totally shocked when I heard only 20% survive

once on a ventilator.

[thesquanderer]

14. Maybe even less than 20%.

More like 10% according to this...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-22/almost-9-in-10-covid-19-patients-on-ventilators-died-in-study

[backscatter712]

18. Yep. You do not want to be conscious if you're on a ventilator.

You literally have a tube shoved down your throat and into your windpipe. It's about as pleasant as being waterboarded.

Most people on ventilators are knocked out cold for the duration. The ones that have to be awake are likely to be restrained, because the instant a person awakes with that tube down his throat, he's gonna freak the fuck out, because he feels like he's choking, and he's gonna try to rip that tube out.

[BigmanPigman]

20. They will have to knock me out cold

if I end up needing to be put on one. I hope they keep enough sedatives on the back burner for me, I'm serious.

[csziggy]

23. During one of my surgeries I woke up while still on the ventilator

Yeah, freak out is the right term. I felt like I was choking and though air was getting in I felt smothered. My memory is a little vague, but I think they gave me a bit more anesthesia because the next thing I remember was the recovery room and no ventilator. The memory still makes me gag a bit, no matter how fuzzy I was.

[Doreen]

2. I wonder if a person is dying of COVID-19

if they could opt for assisted suicide so they do not have to die in pain.

I would not die directly from the virus but out of pure terrifying panic that I can't breath.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

3. Been thinking same think. As morbid as it is.

[Doreen]

6. I have been touching base in my mind about this for about 2 weeks now.

[lunatica]

8. Me too.

[McCamy Taylor]

17. I would accept the 10-20% chance and say "Sedate me and tube me"

[unblock]

4. You pretty much have to be unconscious to be intubated

Once you're intubated and on a ventilator, they have you sedated, often unconscious. However, some are still conscious, provided they tolerate it well (some patients can't control the urge to pull the tube out...).

Hospitals have been running low on sedation meds due to the crush of COVID-19 cases, so they are trying to cut back on sedation....

[Recursion]

7. So, the "good" news is that a lot of the people dying of hypoxemia don't realize it

The lungs are still filtering out CO2, which is what makes you feel like you're suffocating, so a lot of people are just walking around fine without noticing anything until they pass out from low oxygen.

[OhioChick]

9. As I've been told...

Hospitals are having critical shortages of sedation drugs, not good.

From what I understand, there is no RX that is a "game changer."

All that can be done is use every drug possible as the virus causes problems within the body. (Heart rate, BP, etc.)

[progree]

10. What I read (sorry about this)

Here is an article from March 21 -- apparently with all the drugs they need, although he talks later in the article about having to ration ventilators and shortages of personal protective equipment:

A Medical Worker Describes Terrifying Lung Failure From COVID-19 -- Even in His Young Patients, Propublica, 3/21/20

Patients will be on minimal support, on a little bit of oxygen, and then all of a sudden, they go into complete respiratory arrest, shut down and can’t breathe at all.”

“It’s called acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS. That means the lungs are filled with fluid. And it’s notable for the way the X-ray looks: The entire lung is basically whited out from fluid. Patients with ARDS are extremely difficult to oxygenate. It has a really high mortality rate, about 40%. The way to manage it is to put a patient on a ventilator. The additional pressure helps the oxygen go into the bloodstream. “Normally, ARDS is something that happens over time as the lungs get more and more inflamed. But with this virus, it seems like it happens overnight

... The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we’ve had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you’re in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don’t know when someone is trying to help you, so you’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning.

... Even if you survive ARDS, although some damage can heal, it can also do long-lasting damage to the lungs. They can get filled up with scar tissue. ARDS can lead to cognitive decline. Some people’s muscles waste away, and it takes them a long time to recover once they come off the ventilator.

More: https://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients

Yes, they are struggling to breathe even on ventilators at maximum settings (which at high settings are very damaging to the lungs).

And it happens so quickly like overnight from having mild breathing difficulty to lungs filled with fluid and drowning.

And now an article concerning running out of the drugs needed:

U.S. may get more ventilators but run out of medicine for COVID-19 patients, MPR News, 4/4/20

... This week, Vizient released data showing dramatic spikes in demand for sedatives, pain medications, paralytics, and other drugs that are crucial for patients who are on ventilators. According to Vizient's study, the rate at which those orders are filled is lagging far behind the demand.

One complicating factor: "Injectable drugs take a long time to make," Kistner says. "For instance, there's a 21-day sterility period needed for all injectable drugs. So it's not something simple that you can do overnight."

... a patient in acute respiratory distress, being put on a ventilator can be life-saving. It's also really unpleasant. ... When patients are intubated, they're given strong sedatives and pain medicine such as propofol and fentanyl, and sometimes paralytic drugs, as well.

Without those medications, Morse says, "Most people will reach for the [breathing] tube and try to grab it and pull it out. They may fight against having it in their mouth. And if they're working against a breathing machine it can actually damage their lungs."

Now, with a surge of COVID-19 patients on ventilators, hospitals are burning through their supplies of those essential drugs.

... "The nightmare really is that I won't have enough ventilators to treat them all at the same time," Akers says. "And even if I get them on a ventilator, I won't be adequately able to sedate them to know that they're safe. And my real worry is that a lot of people will die as a result of that."

More: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/04/npr-u-s-may-get-more-ventilators-but-run-out-of-medicine-for-covid-19-patients

So anyway, for those fuckwad governors who think the Dow and their beach businesses are more important than human lives, well, there's this to also think about.

And regular people too ... do you really want to risk this hell on earth experience? Like being on a ventilator for 2 weeks is what's needed for many Cov-19 patients, where obviously every second is excruciating. This is a great incentive in my mind for being as careful as possible. Not only for yourself, but others who you might infect and put through this beyond hell-on-earth experience.

[smirkymonkey]

13. I would just hope that if i was ever in that situation that I would be heavily sedated.

I would not want to endure it with full consciousness.

[Dworkin]

11. Grim stuff

Folks,

This is indeed very grim stuff. I have noted that some emergency rooms in the UK have put patients into a 'drug induced coma'. That was the way my Dad died years ago and I'm pleased to say that he knew very little about it. It took a hell of a lot of drug though, two drivers the size of milk bottles.

That must be the worry about hospital shortages.

D.

[backscatter712]

19. Most people who are intubated are heavily sedated.

And yes, that's pretty much the same as "drug-induced coma."

Ventilators are not fun.

[DFW]

12. Two friends of mine had it

They said it felt like they had an elephant sitting on their chests.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

15. Horrors. Did they both survive it?

[DFW]

24. Yes, one just barely

One is a 41 year old son of ours who had it pretty bad, but couldn't get tested until after he was pretty much recovered. He said it felt like he had an elephant sitting on his chest for a few days. That was in the Netherlands.

The other is a Belgian. He was hospitalized for 8 days. He is in his early 50s, and after he got out of the hospital, his lung function was drastically impaired. He said he couldn't even stand up long enough to take a shower without sitting down in the middle of it.

So, yes, they both survived, but neither was trivial case.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

26. So glad for you. Such a mystery of our time and to all

scientists..what makes one person have a light time of it all, while others experience excruciating pain.

[DFW]

27. That is one for the geneticists to figure out

Instinct tells me that something--as yet not identified--in the DNA of the light/non sufferers lets them off the hook. But isolating what that is, and then replicating it in massive quantities at an affordable price--THAT is something for the next Nobel Prize winner in the field of medicine.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

29. Agree. And it is heartening to know that there are real efforts

going on around the world, collecting DNA samples. It makes you realize what a clown show trump is running and how it's lacking.

Good article ( albeit one month old)..
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/how-sick-will-coronavirus-make-you-answer-may-be-your-genes

In addition to genetic variants of the ACE2 receptor, scientists want to see whether differences in the human leukocyte antigen genes, which influence the immune system’s response to viruses and bacteria, affect disease severity. And some investigators want to follow up a finding, which a Chinese team reported in a preprint: that people with type O blood may be protected from the virus. “We’re trying to figure out if those findings are robust,” says Stanford University human geneticist Manuel Rivas, who is contributing to Ganna’s initiative.

[Goodheart]

16. I wonder how many people are naming their newborn sons Covid?

And their new daughters Corona?

[DFW]

25. One would hope

No family named Smith would name their daughter Corona

[Ms. Toad]

21. There are also different (less painful) death scenarios -

Younger ones are dying of strokes, for example. That's much quicker.

[pnwmom]

22. Some are dying of massive strokes at home. n/t

[Laura PourMeADrink]

30. So it depends on whether the local health structures

have the capability to test postmortum? To discover this? Read the other day that there has been an unusual spike in "normal" deaths outside COVID-19.

[pnwmom]

31. Right. And they almost never do in an old person who appeared to die of natural causes. nt

[Renew Deal]

28. There was a story yesterday about seniors winding down without many/any symptoms

So it depends