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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:41 PM Sep 2012

The law is not a parlor game.

Last edited Fri Sep 14, 2012, 05:49 PM - Edit history (7)

A continual threat to our system is people trying to use the criminal law as a crude weapon for advancing their desired ends.

Sometimes prosecutors do this, charging people with fanciful crimes bootstrapped via sophistry from real crimes, in hopes that jury will disregard the law to instead follow their emotions. (Lawyers are trained to look for any arcane argument, any legal "out" to seek a certain end... but prosecuters are not supposed to be mere lawyers trying to wins convictions at all costs. They have a higher ethical obligation than winning.)

Though we non-prosecuters all have the right to argue that laws are infinitely elastic in a good cause, the impulse to do so is malignant—albeit perfectly legal. If someone wants to argue for new laws that is one thing, but arguing through tortured sophistry that existing laws can be used to prosecute those who have commited no crime identified or intended by a legislature... that is scary stuff.

Telling your children Jesus rode a dinosaur is not "child abuse," though it is piss poor education.

Zimmerman is not guilty of "stalking." Murder? Sure, but not stalking.

"Sam Bacile" is not guilty of "incitement to riot."

Abortion is not "murder," though it is quite easy to make the argument if we discard certain legal definitions.

A photograph of a nude 13 year old girl merely standing in the woods is not "child pornography."

Opposing the draft is not "treason," though one can argue it aids the enemy.

Voting against measures to improve the economy is also not, "treason," though it is contemptible behavior.

Bush and Cheney are most likely guilty of violations of laws against torture... thought I'd throw in a real crime to keep the post lively.

The Mike Nichols film Carnal Knowledge is not "obscene." (Though a prosecuter did once correctly reason he could get a jury to imprison a theatre owner by expanding the confusing language of Miller v. California to include a mainstream non-pornographic film. Subsequently overturned in Jenkins v. Georgia.)

And Two Live Crew's dirty song lyrics are not "obscene," though a racist Florida prosecuter did try to use the familiar "isn't X really just the same as Y?" boot-strapping technique to argue to a jury that a song lyric is the same as a picture of the act described.

Revealing the name of some asshole who violates his own oaths to publish a book about his exploits as a Navy Seal is not espionage, treason or attempted murder.

Directing a film that a serial rapist later ritualistically watches on video before each assault is not "accessory to rape." (I think this boot-strapping was attempted once in the 1980s)

Publishing a book saying the 16th amendment was never ratified is stupid, but it is not "conspiracy to commit tax fraud."


And so on.



The criminal law is not a F'ing game where we identify something we do not like and then try to figure out how to distort some statute to encompass it.

The whole point of Liberalism is that laws are paramount, and whims have no place. And in any free society the vast majority of malign, dispicable and unwise actions are not crimes.

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The law is not a parlor game. (Original Post) cthulu2016 Sep 2012 OP
There used to be an old button with a saying a geek named Bob Sep 2012 #1
The belief that every bad thing must be against *some* law is widespread. cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #3
it usually means a geek named Bob Sep 2012 #6
Yes. I think that secularism confuses people cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #7
So many SF writers have commented on this problem a geek named Bob Sep 2012 #11
"There oughta be a law" is one of the worst kneejerks there is. (nt) Posteritatis Sep 2012 #8
K&R X 1000 COLGATE4 Sep 2012 #2
Very well said indeed. hifiguy Sep 2012 #4
Disruptive and hurtful posts like this should be banned Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2012 #5
I dare you to click alert nt Bragi Sep 2012 #10
Yes!!! nt Bragi Sep 2012 #9
 

a geek named Bob

(2,715 posts)
1. There used to be an old button with a saying
Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:43 PM
Sep 2012

"conservatives need to learn that sin is not a crime
liberals need to learn that virtue is not a requirement"

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
7. Yes. I think that secularism confuses people
Fri Sep 14, 2012, 05:31 PM
Sep 2012

Even the religious conflate the law and morality because the state is the true moral arbiter. Why do they care who the State marries? Because the State is all that really counts.

And people equate the illegal with wickedness, even if the same thing was legal yesterday.

 

a geek named Bob

(2,715 posts)
11. So many SF writers have commented on this problem
Fri Sep 14, 2012, 05:46 PM
Sep 2012

I have no idea who to start with.

Personally, other than a few crimes that I'd have no problems wherein I'd pull the trigger myself...

I follow the 11th commandment: Thou shalt not Get Caught.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
2. K&R X 1000
Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:58 PM
Sep 2012

Well put. People need to understand that the Law is not 'what they believe it should be' but rather it is what it is.

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