Mom arrested for letting her kids play outside.

[proud2BlibKansan]

LA PORTE, Texas -
A stay-at-home mom from La Porte has filed a lawsuit against the city's police department, an unknown officer and one of her neighbors.

Tammy Cooper said she was wrongly accused of endangering her children and was even forced to spend the night in jail, all because she let her kids play outside.

She said her children, ages 9 and 6, were riding their motorized scooters in the cul-de-sac where they live while she watched from a lawn chair in her front yard just a few feet away.

"I was out there the entire time," Cooper said. "I never left that lawn chair the entire time."

more . . . http://www.click2houston.com/news/Mom-sues-local-police-over-arrest/-/1735978/16528610/-/tsvmg6/-/index.html

[Blue_In_AK]

1. That's insane.

Kids that age are old enough to play outside by themselves, even if she wasn't outside watching them. One of her neighbors must have had some other issue with her to turn her in.

[madaboutharry]

2. I think there was a problem between Ms. Cooper and her neighbor.

I don't think we know the whole story here.

[Warpy]

3. I think you're right

and that there was likely and altercation of some sort, probably over the noise the kids were making as they went round and round.

[WinkyDink]

5. I'm thinking you got it right! Must have been maddening!

Yes, I AM a "GOML" type!

[Lionessa]

9. I'm going to guess perhaps because motorized vehicles on a public street

by underaged, unlicensed children.

Even tho a cul-de-sac, those aren't usually allowed on the street much less with children riding them.

Edit: OOps. Scooters not those childsized ATVs, my bad. Even so, at least in Boise, motorized scooters were not (when I was there) allowed on public streets, not sure about anywhere else.

[Major Nikon]

19. That's exactly it. Texas requires them to be registered, inspected, and the operator licensed

... to operate on Texas roads. They can't operate them on sidewalks either.

I call the cops on these things in my neighborhood when I see them. I'm sure I've pissed off some of my neighbors for doing it, but they would no doubt sue me if one of their little darlings darts out in front of me and I ran over them.

[Egnever]

28. You pissed me off just saying it

Dont you have better things to do?

[Major Nikon]

34. So it's too much to ask for people to follow the law?

Especially when those laws were written in blood. I have no problem with anyone letting their kids run around like wild animals until it starts affecting me. If they want to let their kids become part of the road, more power to them. I just don't want to be the one running them over. When you have kids younger than 8 running around on motorized vehicles capable of 25 mph or faster and rapid acceleration, with absolutely no respect or knowledge of traffic laws, noise, or even common sense, in my neighborhood then it starts to affect me and I'm going to call the police.

[Egnever]

38. Considering that you live in a cul-de-sac with no trafiic by your own admission

I would say there's little to no danger to the kids in your neighborhood from traffic so yea Calling the cops on them is just being a jerk IMHO.

If you lived on a busy street I might have a different opinion but in this very thread you state how quiet your cul-de-sac is.

I don't have a lot of respect for nanny laws. Nor people who think its their job to ensure they are enforced.

[Major Nikon]

39. Wow! You're a real Sherlock Holmes!

Too bad you didn't use your powers of deduction to conclude that when I drive one of my vehicles, I generally leave my nice quiet cul-de-sac, seeing as how I really wouldn't need my car if I intended to stay there. Too bad also you didn't use these same powers to figure out when kids are riding something recreationally, they aren't concerned about getting from point A to point B, so they are just as likely to ride around my nice quiet cul-de-sac as they are a through street. You also didn't give much thought to how and where these types of accidents occur. When I'm leaving my nice quite cul-de-sac I back my vehicle out of the drive, which means I have limited visibility. Now consider a kid driving anything from a motorized scooter to a decent sized dirt bike or a go-cart riding up and down the sidewalks and street during the day AND even after dark. How much of a chance do you think I'll have to see them? I ran over my neighbor's dog this way over 20 years ago and it still bothers me to this day even though it was the neighbor's fault for allowing their dog outside without a leash. Now maybe you just don't think about such things or maybe you just don't give a shit how you would be able to live with yourself if you ran over someone's kid, but I do. If it takes calling in enforcement of what you ignorantly seem to think are "nanny" laws, then so be it. I wouldn't give a day old dog turd if you or anyone else thinks I'm being a "jerk" for doing so. I just chalk it up to someone who is ignorant at best and/or lacking in any sort of social conscience. I've never really cared much for what those type of people think of me. Just sayin'.

Cheers!

[strategery blunder]

40. And what of pedestrians?

Will you call the cops on them, too?

There's not that much difference between a kid on a scooter and a kid on foot, other than acceleration. But even kids on foot can dart about and change location really fast. Oh--and I should mention that bikes can reach respectable speeds too, so should kids never ride bikes?

Did you ever consider being neighborly and talking to such kids and/or their parents before escalating to calling the police about nuisance calls? Did you ever consider telling your neighbors that you did back into a dog without a leash 20 years ago and you still fear that happening again with a child? Did you ever try to teach those kids to be more careful, or do you simply believe in letting the police do that work for you (at not insignificant taxpayer expense)?

Granted, the parents should be the ones doing that, but your post makes it seem like you're not even giving the parents a chance to engage in parenting before running to the police.

Do you enjoy being such an asshole?

Do you want to be known as "that guy who calls the police to get kids off his lawn" to operators and first responders when you need to call 911 for something that is actually serious and imminently life-threatening?

[Major Nikon]

45. What if a man in a clown suit was walking backwards down the sidewalk with a corncob up his ass?

If you want to go off topic and discuss "what if" all day I can do that, but do understand this has very little to do with the topic at hand.

First of all, there's a huge difference between a kid on foot and a kid on a scooter regardless of what you think. Kids on foot or even on a bike don't go 20mph or faster. Many of these motorized scooters are capable of much faster speeds, and guess which ones the kids want? It ain't the slower ones. And some of them are riding full fledged dirt bikes which go another order of magnitude faster than that. Several months ago I got passed on my bike by a kid on a motorized scooter. I was doing 17mph at the time and he was doing around 10mph faster than me. Pedestrians generally don't move very fast, and when they do such as when they are running, they are quite mindful of vehicle traffic unless they have some sort of death wish. When I back out of my driveway, or even if I'm going forwards somewhere else, I ALWAYS stop before I get to a sidewalk with no exceptions. This is the law in many, if not most municipal areas which most people disregard out of ignorance or simply laziness. Someone riding a motorized vehicle, or even a bicycle on a sidewalk (which is illegal pretty much everywhere for good reason) is moving faster than even a diligent driver is expecting, and they are also moving faster than they can reasonably see vehicles backing out of driveways which means they are creating a hazard. Many people who are avid runners don't do so on the sidewalk for this very reason, and anyone who knows shit from beans about riding a bike doesn't do so on the sidewalk either. When I was young, the car my parents had didn't even have seatbelts and even those who had them didn't utilize them. Does that mean seatbelt laws are a "nuisance"? Certainly some people think so, and they are wrong.

Do I ever consider talking to the parents? Sure. If I know who they are, I'll gladly do so before I call the cops and have on many occasions. However, there are over 300 homes in my neighborhood. I barely know 10% of my neighbors, and the kids who are running around on motorized vehicles generally don't offer this information when they are buzzing by at 20mph or better. So this is by far the exception, rather than the rule where it would even apply. We also have a web site for our HOA with a public forum where I and other neighbors have posted this hazard for all the neighbors to see and even comment if they like. So far the ones who choose to allow their kids to do so haven't. I'm also by far not the only neighbor that calls the cops on them. As a result we rarely have a problem with parents who do this. They know they are wrong, and even if they don't they very quickly get educated on the subject. So they don't do it to begin with. It's amazing how well it works.

As far as the cops go, I've spoken to them on this very topic and they have zero problems with it. In fact, they are quite happy to respond. The reason is because it gives them a chance to actually educate kids and parents on the hazard they are creating and actually do something quite positive for the community. The ones I've spoken to do not typically give even so much as a citation for first offenses. They talk to the kids and they talk to the parents. Now many you think such education is a "nuisance" but I happen to think it saves lives and injuries and the cops happen to agree, and they are right.

As far as your childish name-calling goes, there's one thing you should probably understand about me.

I

don't

give

a

flying

fuck

what

name-callers

think.


I just consider the mentality of someone who feels the need to resort to such childish antics. So feel free to call me names all you want. I never alert for it. It only provides undeniable proof of your own assholery which I have no problem pointing out.

Just sayin'

Cheers!

[strategery blunder]

47. I've got news for you...

Kids on bikes do go 20 mph or faster. That is part of why it's illegal in most places to ride bikes on sidewalks--bicyclists are a hazard to pedestrians at such speeds (and sidewalks are much narrower than traffic lanes, leaving said pedestrians much less room to evade the errant bicyclists).

If you're backing out of a driveway, a bike (or scooter) cruising down the road at just the right moment, even where it is legally supposed to be, is every bit of a hazard to your car as it would be on the sidewalk. Granted, to pedestrians, that's another story. You're still going to get the same visibility issues, barring shrubbery or other such impediments to field of vision that affect your view of the sidewalk, but not the road behind it. Your reference to people who don't wear seatbelts is nothing more than a strawman to deflect attention away from your "get off my lawn" attitude. Pedestrians and bicyclists are hit in the same kinds of backing-out incidents that have you so alarmed about mopeds crossing your driveway.

Hell, in some ways a bicycle is even more of a collision danger than a moped. Both can go fast, both are hard to see (especially backing out), but the bicycle doesn't make noise outside of wind resistance. You can at least hear a moped and know that one is somewhere nearby.

"I would talk to the parents, but I don't know them..." well then, why don't you act like a neighbor and go and meet them? I'm sure you could find that information from the police reports that your activities generate. I'm sure the police reports could narrow down those 300 homes in the neighborhood for you, that you might get an idea of who to talk to. But go ahead, keep letting others go ahead and do your work so you can keep your smug attitude about not wanting to be sued instead instead of acting like a good neighbor and talking to your neighbors about the behavior that you find objectionable.

Oh, and before you call me "childish," you might want to critically examine the post to which I replied. You've been really condescending to everyone in this thread who doesn't simply nod in agreement to you. My posts are merely a reflection of the attitude I saw you extend to other posters.

[Major Nikon]

49. I seriously doubt you're going to provide me with news about bikes

I've been riding non-stop since I was a kid and I'm no spring chicken. And no, kids don't go "20 mph or faster" on bikes. At my age I average 18 mph on around 50 miles per week and I'm going a helluva lot faster than a grammar school kid on a Huffy. This is on a dedicated road bike and NOT through neighborhoods. Cyclists who are world class athletes are doing good to average 25 mph, and again this is NOT through neighborhoods. If you think 8 year olds are typically going "20 mph or faster" on their Schwin through residential neighborhoods, then you have a very poor understanding of biking in general. An adult on a road bike in good shape will typically average between 15-20 mph on improved side roads (not neighborhood roads). Adults in less than optimum shape on a hybrid or mountain bike will typically average 10mph or less and young kids on single speed bikes average slower than that. Furthermore there's plenty of stupidity to go around with bikes as well which is a different subject. Many don't wear helmets. Many ride on sidewalks because their parents tell them it's "safer" than being on the street. It isn't. And the reason has little to do with pedestrian traffic. There are plenty of multi-use paths which were specifically designed for pedestrians and bikes that aren't much different than sidewalks as far as width goes. The biggest reason is because when you start traveling faster down a path where car drivers aren't expecting you to be, accidents are the predictable result.

Kids riding bikes on sidewalks and breaking other traffic laws is also illegal and monumentally stupid, but I don't call the cops on them because at least I have a decent chance of seeing and avoiding them. Several models of battery powered stand up scooters are capable of 20mph and faster and they have no problem achieving this speed in residential neighborhoods. This is on level ground and they are just as quiet, if not more so, than bikes. Some gas motorized stand up scooters can go faster than 30mph. Sit down scooters(mopeds) and small motorcycles can go 50-60mph. There's no way this compares to a kid on a Schwin. And it's not as if they are obeying traffic laws so speed is not the only issue. They ride up and down driveways, sidewalks, rarely wear protective gear, never signal turns, rarely stop at stop signs, and rarely yield the right of way. In short, they do the same stupid things kids do on bikes, except they are going an order of magnitude faster. That's why riding unlicensed, uninspected motorized vehicles by unlicensed drivers on public roads is illegal in most municipalities.

As far as my neighbors go, I'm already very outgoing. I know roughly 30 families in my neighborhood on more than just a casual basis. This is because I do a lot of volunteer work at the school and because our neighborhood has two block parties each year which I almost always participate. So I already am very engaging with my neighbors, but most of them just don't care to reciprocate which is fine by me, but I really don't feel this is my fault.

[boppers]

31. Dangerous parenting = pissed off neighbors.

"I was sitting in my lawn chair while they were risking death, driving motor vehicles in the street" isn't much of a defense.

[DonRedwood]

46. my nieghbor rides his motorcycle with his 3 year old daughter riding with no helmet

It infuriates me...but, we have a helmet law for bikes to and their kids don't wear those either. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. We had a neighbor kid who rode one of those into a mailbox

and broke his collar bone. Next day he was out in the street riding that damn thing again. The entire time we lived there I was sure I was going to watch this kid die.

[Major Nikon]

23. I have a problem with any parent who lets their kids ride these things on the streets

They go as fast as mopeds and I've seen kids on them that looked younger than 8. I call the cops on them and wouldn't blame anyone else who did.

[Betsy Ross]

6. I grew up in America but

had a youth much like you describe. In the summer, we would hop on bikes and ride three miles to the community pool to take classes and swim for a few hours. I can't remember any time while in school that I got rides both to and from school. We were always on our own in the afternoon. I don't know if I would give kids that level of freedom today.

[darkangel218]

8. Yah, me niether.

Its a different society nowadays, a lot more sickos out there it seems.

[gollygee]

10. Crime is down

Including crime against children. It isn't more dangerous and there aren't more sickos. We're just more paranoid.

[darkangel218]

11. I doubt thats true. How can crime be down?

I need to look it up, but im pretty sure crime is higher now then lets say 25 years ago.

[darkangel218]

12. I guess you were right.

The stats say crime in the USA at the lowest levels, compared with early 1970's

[RKP5637]

15. I think what happens today is we hear about it sooo much, makes it seem

higher than it is ...

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Before the early 1980's, there was very little attention paid to crimes against children

The Center for Missing and Exploited Children wasn't created until 1984. Think of the "famous" child abduction cases: Etan Patz (1979), Adam Walsh (1981). Think of one before that time that's not something like Leopold and Loeb. I'm betting you can't, because they never made big news. It was a sidenote in our society. The very nature of childhood changed dramatically during the early 1980's, but not because the instances of crimes against children increased. Rather, they came on radar, became an element of our discourse. A particular kind of childhood was invented in the early 20th century (there are many brilliant historical works on the history of childhood), and a new one was invented again in the late 1970's and through the early 80's.

[boppers]

30. Lindbergh baby.

National story, made all the papers.... of course, if your bar is "think of a non-publicized child abduction", that's kind of a weird little logic loop.

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. Yes, but you see how that's different from the way we imagine child abduction today

There was no sexualization of the child in these narratives - Leopold and Loeb, Lindbergh Baby. The narrative is of a rich child taken for ransom (false or otherwise) and killed. The narrative of the child abducted for the sexual exploitation is very rare before the late 1970's. It's always in the background, of course, but in the late 1970's it ceases to be the rich child taken for ransom and begins to be the middle class or poor child taken by a sexual predator. I don't doubt that we can find cases of such discussions prior, but it does not dominate the way we imagine the dangers of childhood until that time.

[angstlessk]

18. In the 1950's my sister and I walking home from church were confronted by a man

in a strange little car..the doors opened funny...saying our parents sent him to pick us up and bring us home...well, our parents told us about 'strangers' and since we were almost home anyway, we refused..turns out our parents did NOT send him..not sure if our parents called the police or not?

[mike_c]

7. I grew up much the same in the U.S., as did my daughter....

eom

[Odin2005]

27. I grew up in rural Minnesota and I walked to Kindergarten, too.

This was 1991 and I lived 5 blocks from school. I was a latch-key kid.

[TwilightGardener]

29. I walked to school by myself at age 5, too.

We went all over the neighborhood when we played outside, including into the woods. My mom had no idea where we were most of the time--over some other kid's house? Riding bikes? Who knew? As long as we came back by a certain time (usually dinner or darkness) we were OK. I didn't raise my own kids like that--I had to know where they were going, and with whom, at the very least. And they didn't walk to school by themselves until they were in third grade.

[darkangel218]

35. So pretty much here was the same too decades ago,

I guess its a matter of how parenting changed in the past few dacades.

[blueamy66]

13. being a kid in the US these days must really suck

I feel sorry for these kids.

[Tikki]

14. Cul-de-sacs are like a box canyon if you live in the turnaround..

Noise can get trapped and I would wouldn't want to hear little motors buzzing in my ear
all afternoon...Get off our shared blacktop.




TIKKI

[RKP5637]

16. I lived on one, never would again. Nothing passed by, it stayed trapped

in the cul-de-sac.

[Major Nikon]

22. I live in one and love it

The only traffic we get are people who live in the cul-de-sac and the rare instance of someone turning around. You do get a bit of noise when the kids are playing, but they go inside after dark so it's not a big deal. It's more than worth it to me for the reduced traffic. Back when I lived on a through street there was a wreck in front of my house and one of the cars spun out in my front yard just a few feet from the house. I also had my mailbox ran over twice.

[Arugula Latte]

24. Same here.

Used to live on a busy street on a hilly bus line (think screeching brakes). The cul de sac is mercifully quiet, but still in the city.

[The River]

25. Same Here

but it was back in the 60's. 7 houses with 20+ kids in an upscale subdiv.
My Dad actually painted a 1/2 court in front of the basketball net
a volleyball court, 4-square court and a hopscotch "ladder", all on the pavement
with weatherproof paint. It got repainted every few years and after repaving.
No complaints from cops, VDOT or property owners.
Simpler times....

This was in freaking Fairfax County VA where damn near everything is illegal now days.

[Dash87]

17. That'll teach her to let her kids get exercise.

They should be inside all day playing the XBox 360 like normal children.

[Major Nikon]

20. Not sure how much exercise they were getting on a motorized scooter

[Odin2005]

26. We have become a nation of frightened idiots.

[Egnever]

32. It becomes clearer every day.

[MadHound]

33. What a sad, fearful world we live in.

It was actually more dangerous for kids playing outside back in the "good ol' days" when I was a kid roaming around. At five I walked back and forth to kindergarten, a good mile away. As I got older my range increased, especially after I got my first bike. It was nothing to ride five miles to downtown, or a friend's house or wherever. And the thing is all the kids did it, played, ran around the neighborhood, oh, and all without the benefit of a cell phone.

We survived and thrived. Now, you go roaming down those same streets and there are no kids to be seen. The basketball court is rarely in use, the baseball field is empty, there are no bikes, or skateboards or kids in the yards or streets. Seems like such a shame.

[octothorpe]

37. WTF? Is there something more to this story?

When I was that age I was always out and about running around without my mommy or daddy constantly watching me.

[hedgehog]

42. The difference between now and "the good old days" is that back then

during the day almost every house was occupied by an adult who was paying attention to the neighborhood. These days neighborhoods are mostly empty during the work day.

[jsr]

43. More info:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/09/07/50051.htm

Child Endangerment, My Eye, Mom Says
By CAMERON LANGFORD

HOUSTON (CN) - Police falsely arrested a mother for "child endangerment" after a neighbor reported that she had abandoned her children by letting them ride scooters in the street, the mom claims in court.
Tammy Cooper sued her neighbor Shelley Fuller, the city of La Porte Police Department and one unidentified officer, in Federal Court.
La Porte is a city of 33,000 near the Houston Ship Channel in Harris County.
In her complaint, Cooper says she lives on a "quiet, suburban cul de sac" and "often allows her 6- and 9-year-old children to ride their scooters on the street while she watches from a chair in the driveway or through the large windows on the front of her house." ....

[HiPointDem]

44. they didn't arrest her for letting her kids play outside. stupid headline.