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SiliconValley_Dem

(1,656 posts)
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 03:39 PM Jul 2020

young people today are more knowledgeable than founding fathers

*young people today don't believe slavery of humans is a morally defensible institution

*young people today know more about how human activities have an enormous impact on our planet

*young people today know that slaughtering indigenous people in order to advance white colonialism is wrong

Don't hold our founding fathers on too lofty of a perch. What they did regarding promotion of Democratic self rule and rejection of monarchy was ground breaking--but it birthed a very imperfect nation.

we have a right and an obligation to see those times and those people from a more enlightened perspective.

it is important we recognize those people knew so much less than we do today. It is similar to digging up artifacts from early humans. we know they were less intelligent and extremely primitive. we make allowances for that, but we see them with the clarity of scientific objectivity.

we must listen to the voices chanting for accountability. demanding a reckoning. don't use tradition as a cudgel. examine our nation and the people who led it. focus on how you can better our lives and our institutions.

that is a sign off true patriotism.

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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young people today are more knowledgeable than founding fathers (Original Post) SiliconValley_Dem Jul 2020 OP
Totally agree. BComplex Jul 2020 #1
Well stated. dchill Jul 2020 #2
+1. well said. (nt) stopdiggin Jul 2020 #3
Watching Hamilton yesterday I thought about how young many of them were. tanyev Jul 2020 #4
yes, very good point! SiliconValley_Dem Jul 2020 #5
Yep, things ARE different........ MyOwnPeace Jul 2020 #6
I find that line of argument flawed. PTWB Jul 2020 #8
OK, so you've only supported my contention..... MyOwnPeace Jul 2020 #9
We do. PTWB Jul 2020 #10
Supreme court has gotten a number of interpretations of Constitution wrong SiliconValley_Dem Jul 2020 #15
Perhaps it will be reinterpreted at some point. PTWB Jul 2020 #19
Hear! Hear! Laelth Jul 2020 #7
Now, if only they had their common sense. Sneederbunk Jul 2020 #11
many of them do. go speak withsome of todays 20 and 30 somethings SiliconValley_Dem Jul 2020 #16
I assume, though, that a higher percentage of the FFs voted DavidDvorkin Jul 2020 #12
The low voter turnout in this nation is ridiculous. nt Progressive Jones Jul 2020 #13
The founding documents are historic and beautiful. However... brush Jul 2020 #14
This would seem to be a list of values rather than knowledge. Nitram Jul 2020 #17
Exactly StarfishSaver Jul 2020 #20
civilization and education.... quickesst Jul 2020 #18
Knowlegeable about ..."What" ? Stuart G Jul 2020 #21
they were parochial by today's standards SiliconValley_Dem Jul 2020 #22
Please explain, "parochial by today's standards"...In what way & how were they? Stuart G Jul 2020 #25
I guess - young people have the benefit of 300 years (and more !!!) of history HotTeaBag Jul 2020 #23
the point is---it is fine to engage in a fresh view of history and heroes with the advantage SiliconValley_Dem Jul 2020 #24
I agree with you.HotTeaBag....for 3 sentences...Here they are...1. More Courages?...Nah Stuart G Jul 2020 #26
Wonderful World pecosbob Jul 2020 #27

tanyev

(42,278 posts)
4. Watching Hamilton yesterday I thought about how young many of them were.
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 04:18 PM
Jul 2020

We always see portraits of them as older men, but Lafayette, Burr, and Hamilton were 18, 20, and 22 in 1776. They birthed a great idea of a nation, but I agree with your comment, “we have a right and an obligation to see those times and those people from a more enlightened perspective”.

MyOwnPeace

(16,884 posts)
6. Yep, things ARE different........
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 04:32 PM
Jul 2020

For example:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Let's not even begin to discuss/argue the "well regulated" part - but think about this: our dear "founding Fathers" had never heard of an AR-15, as well as an individual or groups having an "arsenal" stashed in the basement or available "on-line!"

They had muskets - fire and reload. No "quick-shooters" - no "laser-guided" weapons - just muskets and single-fire pistols!

Yes, the times have changed.

We need leaders in our government that recognize that and are willing to make the changes necessary to truly "Make America Great Again!"

THOSE PEOPLE WOULD TRULY BE PATRIOTS!

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
8. I find that line of argument flawed.
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 04:43 PM
Jul 2020

While true the founding fathers never envisioned an AR-15 when they wrote the 2nd, it is also true they never envisioned the Internet when they wrote the 1st.

MyOwnPeace

(16,884 posts)
9. OK, so you've only supported my contention.....
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 04:47 PM
Jul 2020

Things change - we need leadership and legislation that works for the world as it is today.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
10. We do.
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 04:58 PM
Jul 2020

We also need to work within the parameters of the constitution or change them. We cannot pretend they do not exist.

 

SiliconValley_Dem

(1,656 posts)
15. Supreme court has gotten a number of interpretations of Constitution wrong
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 06:00 PM
Jul 2020

the cases deeming a bunch of jackass hilbillies toting AR-15s as a "well regulated militia" are bullshit

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
19. Perhaps it will be reinterpreted at some point.
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 06:23 PM
Jul 2020

Until then it is the law of the land. There is much debate over the phrasing of the 2nd amendment.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
7. Hear! Hear!
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 04:32 PM
Jul 2020

We’re nowhere near perfect. We do not live up to all of our ideals, but we are WAY better now than we were in the 1950s and VASTLY better than we were in 1776.

-Laelth

brush

(53,331 posts)
14. The founding documents are historic and beautiful. However...
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 05:48 PM
Jul 2020

one fifth of populace was in bondage and they knew enslavement was evil.

Search Results
Featured snippet from the web
Jefferson wrote that maintaining slavery was like holding “a wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go.”17 He thought that his cherished federal union, the world's first democratic experiment, would be destroyed by slavery.

Jefferson's Attitudes Toward Slavery | Thomas Jefferson's ...
www.monticello.org › ... › Jefferson & Slavery


Thomas Jefferson wrote that “all men are created equal,” and yet enslaved more than 600 people over the course of his life. ... Thomas Jefferson called slavery a “moral depravity” and a “hideous blot,”


What to do, what to think today, how do we evaluate them except to say they were imperfect men who could visualize a more perfect union. Sorry, but of the slaveholders among them, their hypocrisy was/is self evident.
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
20. Exactly
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 06:26 PM
Jul 2020

They have different values and more information, but neither is the same as having knowledge.

quickesst

(6,279 posts)
18. civilization and education....
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 06:15 PM
Jul 2020

.... In 1776 compared to civilization and education in 2020.

"young people today are more knowledgeable than founding fathers" 🤔

One would certainly hope so.

Stuart G

(38,328 posts)
21. Knowlegeable about ..."What" ?
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 06:35 PM
Jul 2020

The founding fathers of the U.S. were some of the brightest men alive in their day. One must ask, "knowledgeable"
about...."What"?....

If Washington & Jefferson were alive today, they would be our leaders now. To compare knowledge today with knowledge in 1750 is absurd...

It isn't the ..."knowledge" it is the ..... ability to...." learn knowledge."

Washington and Jefferson were brilliant, and would be brilliant today, if they were alive today..
... Who knows what they would accomplish today? No one knows...

 

HotTeaBag

(1,206 posts)
23. I guess - young people have the benefit of 300 years (and more !!!) of history
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 06:45 PM
Jul 2020

to look back on - and Wikipedia.

More courageous? Nah.

More willing to risk their lives to do what they believe in? Hardly.

Able to birth a fucking country? Um, no.

This is easily the most ridiculous OP amongst the newly minted 'anti-Founding Fathers sentiment' posts.

Utter nonsense.



 

SiliconValley_Dem

(1,656 posts)
24. the point is---it is fine to engage in a fresh view of history and heroes with the advantage
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 06:48 PM
Jul 2020

of time and new information. nothing about their courage or intellect will change the fact that they owned After ican Americans as slaves until the day they died.

Stuart G

(38,328 posts)
26. I agree with you.HotTeaBag....for 3 sentences...Here they are...1. More Courages?...Nah
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 07:01 PM
Jul 2020

2.... More willing to risk their lives to do what they believe in? Hardly.

3.......Able to birth a fucking country? Um, no.

Yes, and I also agree this is ..."utter nonsense"

pecosbob

(7,482 posts)
27. Wonderful World
Sat Jul 4, 2020, 07:57 PM
Jul 2020

I hear babies cry
I watch them grow
They'll learn much more
Than I'll ever know
And I think to myself
What a wonderful world

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