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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:26 PM Sep 2012

When I was a little kid there were legally banned books.

Not discouraged books. Not "the library didn't buy one" books, or "they removed it from the high school curriculum" books.

Banned. Books.

Lists of books... words on a page with no pictures... that if you stocked them in your book store you were arrested.

It was illegal to sell a copy of Henry Miller's novel Tropic of Cancer in the state of New York in 1962. And 1963. The state Supreme Court overturned the ban in 1964, only after the US Supreme court had ruled in favor of the same book.

New York state was only one of many, but it is the one best remembered because the entire publishing industry was in New York.

I am not an centegenarian recalling boxes of James Joyce's Ulysses being heaped into a furnace by the US government in the 1920s. (Which didn't stop until a 1933 court decision) This is what the world was like on the day JFK was shot. This is what the world was like a year after John Glenn orbited the Earth in outer space. This is what the world was like the day of the "I have a dream" speech.

I used to work in a major mainstream corporate chain bookstore in the 1980s that carried Penthouse and Hustler in the magazine selection, kept behind the counter. I got to see a minimum wage co-worker arrested and taken to jail in hand-cuffs for selling a magazine, available pretty much anywhere, to an undercover policeman—and this was inside the Washington beltway, not in some rural area. (The criminal statute considered the "seller" to be the person conducting the transaction... the cashier taking money and handing over the magazine.)

So when somebody starts advocating "good" censorship I hear/feel it the way I assume an older black voter does when somebody says, "There really ought to be an IQ Test for voting."

We had tests for voting. We had every kind of test for voting you can imagine. And the problem with those tests was 1) that they were a way for a majority view to suppress a minority view, and they always will be, since the majority makes the policy decisions in a democracy, and 2) having an equal say in your own fate is sacrosant.

It is natural for people who haven't seen certain things to relegate them to ancient times. A lot of people who started voting in the 1990s probably thought state-by-state suppression of minority voting was something won and done, something that would be rampant 20 years in the future.

Whoops. Support for rights is never a war won, no more than mowing your lawn stops grass from growing.

And I am always disheartened to see a certain generational drama play out time and again—that even though no sane educated person would care to defend the specifics of past censorship, people indulge in fantasies where if they ran the world they would ban only the "bad" books. Someday we will get censorship right so that it serves the people! (And fifty years hence new-and-improved censorship will look exactly as primitive and loutishly authoritarian as the early 1960s appear today).

Yes, we will get censorship right just like we will get forced abortion and voter supression right. I have known people in circumstances where they seriously should have gotten an abortion, and I have known people I would genuinely prefer did not vote... yet somehow I am not an advocate of forced abortion and a limited franchise.

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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When I was a little kid there were legally banned books. (Original Post) cthulu2016 Sep 2012 OP
I sell Real Estate. I listed a house once and saw the original deed restrictions. louis-t Sep 2012 #1
Here's a trio of US Supreme Court decisions: cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #3
In the town where my mom grew up MountainLaurel Sep 2012 #12
BRAVO!!!! Taverner Sep 2012 #2
I despise religion. It is my duty to blaspheme them all. banned from Kos Sep 2012 #4
Subj: Books Mayor Sarah Palin tried to remove from Wasilla library! yortsed snacilbuper Sep 2012 #5
I had no idea there were so many on the list. louis-t Sep 2012 #7
Death of a Salesman? odd. cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #8
A baker's dozen (at least) have been taught at my old school (many by me!). WinkyDink Sep 2012 #9
That's just her starting point. (Notably "The Handmaid's Tale" describes a Christianist distopia).nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2012 #10
R.I.P., Ray Bradbury pinboy3niner Sep 2012 #6
Slightly related bongbong Sep 2012 #11

louis-t

(23,284 posts)
1. I sell Real Estate. I listed a house once and saw the original deed restrictions.
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:33 PM
Sep 2012

The seller had owned the property since it was built in 1965. In 1965, the owner could not sell the house to anyone who wasn't Caucasian. Wow!

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
3. Here's a trio of US Supreme Court decisions:
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:40 PM
Sep 2012

Tropic of Cancer not obscene - 1964
Birth Control - 1965
Interracial Marriage - 1967

These things are inseparable.

If they can tell you what to say they can tell you who to marry and how to manage your uterus.

If they can tell you who to marry and how to manage your uterus, they can tell you what to say.

If they can tell you who to marry they can tell you what you can say and what you can do with your private parts.


It's all the same.

MountainLaurel

(10,271 posts)
12. In the town where my mom grew up
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:07 AM
Sep 2012

Such housing covenants from the same era stated that you couldn't sell to Italians. Her friend had come across it while trying to sell her parents' home.

 

banned from Kos

(4,017 posts)
4. I despise religion. It is my duty to blaspheme them all.
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:44 PM
Sep 2012

I don't do it here because DU is privately operated.

But all fundamentalists are mentally ill.

yortsed snacilbuper

(7,939 posts)
5. Subj: Books Mayor Sarah Palin tried to remove from Wasilla library!
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 06:58 PM
Sep 2012

Subj: Books Mayor Sarah Palin tried to remove from Wasilla library

This information is taken from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board.

When the librarian refused to ban the books, Palin tried to get her fired.

***
A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Bastard by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth

 

bongbong

(5,436 posts)
11. Slightly related
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:01 AM
Sep 2012

Until the middle-to-late 1970s, it was common to have newspaper job ads under two broad classifications.

Male help wanted
Female help wanted

Personnel records in most businesses listed "Miss/Mrs" instead of "Ms" for a long time, some into the 1980s.


People don't know how many things have changed that "fly under the radar". The repigs want to take all those things away.

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