HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » WTF? Zimbabwe to pay repa...

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 01:10 AM

WTF? Zimbabwe to pay reparatations to white farmers

what kind of bizarro world is this? https://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFKCN24U1QL-OZATP

28 replies, 1642 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply WTF? Zimbabwe to pay reparatations to white farmers (Original post)
Ex Lurker Jul 2020 OP
Eugene Jul 2020 #1
Amishman Jul 2020 #12
Demsrule86 Jul 2020 #23
Ex Lurker Aug 2020 #27
Phoenix61 Jul 2020 #2
Ex Lurker Aug 2020 #28
RockRaven Jul 2020 #3
GulfCoast66 Jul 2020 #4
EllieBC Jul 2020 #5
GulfCoast66 Jul 2020 #6
JonLP24 Jul 2020 #9
hardluck Jul 2020 #11
irisblue Jul 2020 #21
GulfCoast66 Jul 2020 #13
JonLP24 Jul 2020 #14
Igel Jul 2020 #15
Codeine Jul 2020 #17
irisblue Jul 2020 #22
Codeine Jul 2020 #25
captain queeg Jul 2020 #7
JI7 Jul 2020 #8
obamanut2012 Jul 2020 #18
malaise Jul 2020 #10
obamanut2012 Jul 2020 #16
Demsrule86 Jul 2020 #24
BannonsLiver Jul 2020 #19
Hortensis Jul 2020 #20
Alea Jul 2020 #26

Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 01:20 AM

1. It's a compromise.

The government took the land in the name of land reform. It is disputed whether the white farmers deserved compensation. The two sides widely disagreed what a fair payment would be.

It was the redressing of colonialist injustice versus private property rights. Also throw in a generous helping of kleptocracy.

The far right played up that dispute as "white genocide," as retweeted by the Dolt45 and others.

An imperfect resolution of a messy situation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eugene (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 08:48 AM

12. Exactly, this is actually a really good and fair move

They put a ton of time and capital into those farms. They should be compensated for it.

Fair, or even generous compensation is essential for most kinds of government intervention.

And they key thing is they aren't being compensated for the land. If they were there this would be very different (given the history of the land acquisition), and there would be one or two more zeroes on the total.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Amishman (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 31, 2020, 12:21 PM

23. They stole the land now didn't they.

They deserve nothing for the hell they caused.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #23)

Sun Aug 2, 2020, 12:15 AM

27. Exactly

If there were problems with how the land was redistributed, fix the problem. Don't give it back to the whites who stole it in the first place.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 01:21 AM

2. Did you read the article? Paying for the infrastructure

the farmers put on the land but not the land itself. How do you suggest they put it right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 2, 2020, 12:16 AM

28. They don't deserve anything. They stole it. NT

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 01:34 AM

3. One which acknowledges that Mugabe didn't always do things the right way?



I'm not gonna go to the wall for all the nitty gritty details of a policy enacted by Robert Fucking Mugabe.

The article says the reparations are explicitly not for the land but for the infrastructure built on said land. And it is $3.5B to 4500 farmers. Which at $778K/farmer sounds like a hell of a lot. But then the article also says the land of those 4500 farmers was redistributed to 300K families. Which makes it clear that those farms were relatively huge, and ergo probably contained a fair bit of infrastructure.

All in all, the fact that there were thousands of white large-landowners in Zimbabwe because of a history of colonialism and race-based violence is beyond messed up. But if, IF, this puts to bed forever the issue of Mugabe's land redistribution, then I'll say I'm glad that issue is over and done with -- because it has been a festering international racist talking point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 01:54 AM

4. Mugabe was a monster. But because he identified as being on the left he got a pass.

But he was a despot. Nothing left about him.

Zimbabwe was the bread basket of Southern Africa. Now they canít even feed themselves. There was a moral obligation and a practical reason to give rights and support to all people in the country.

But by appropriating and breaking up the productive farms, which provided most of the nationís wealth, and giving it to political supporters who know nothing and cared nothing about farming was a recipe for disaster.

There is no easy answer to the remnants of European colonialism. Unfortunately the world is full of grey.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 02:03 AM

5. It's also insulting assuming just anyone can be a farmer.

Thatís like the conservatives who suggest college and high school students spend summers in the fields instead of bringing in migrant workers. Itís not something just anyone can do. Itís actually a trade and a skill.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EllieBC (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 02:21 AM

6. I'm an agricultural major! Good farmer are good business people.

A farm is a business. Without good management land means nothing.

Mugabe took land from good farms and gave it to his supporters to insure his continued power. Which worked as far his power was concerned. But it wrecked the country. In 78 Zimbabwe brought in enough revenue to support all of its citizens in a decent life. It still could. But after a bitter war for self rule, which was totally justified, Mugabe chose poorly. He chose to insure his continual rule over the well being of the citizens of the nation. White and Black.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 02:58 AM

9. I don't remember anyone on the left ever giving Mugabe a pass

In fact Mugabe was used as an example by the left of a dictator we don't overthrow during the Iraq war

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JonLP24 (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 07:39 AM

11. He had quite a vocal fan base here back in the day (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hardluck (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 31, 2020, 12:16 PM

21. Hardluck, after a google search Robert Mugabe+DU

I'm not seeing what you are asserting that he jad a DU fan base.
You got some citations for that?
You can send them via DU mail if you need to.

Thanks

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JonLP24 (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 09:16 AM

13. I was following politics in the early 80s. Rightfully, the left loved Mugabe.

He defeated colonial powers and used the language of democracy before and after it happened. Even after it became on Apparent he was just another dictator many on the left were slow to criticize him.

Same with Castro. Who regardless of what anyone says was a dictator. Cubans have no more political freedom than under Batista. There are still those on DU who will defend him. Not as many as before 2016.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 09:28 AM

14. I was born in the 80s so that is probably why I'm not aware

I'm aware of Castro defenders but I look at it like this. The US has a long history of backing right wing militias & dictatorships during the cold war. There was a lot of inequality under Batista & the mafia had business interests there. Cuba has little to no homeless in their country while my family was homeless briefly in this country.

I agree they have a lack of political freedom & press freedom but the paranoia after WW 2 led to a repression of political freedoms around the globe including the US especially in the 60s with COINTELPRO and OPERATION CHAOS. Assata Shakur has political asylum in Cuba.

Cuba also fought apartheid before the US did.

Cuba has problems but they are way below Saudi Arabia on my list of concerns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 09:31 AM

15. But both were illusory.

"Fighting colonial powers" can easily be spun as nationalism and xenophobia.

"Using the language of democracy" is easy. Just change the meaning of "democracy" to "doing what I think is good for my supporters" and you're there. Used back in the 1920s and '30s. Orwell had a thing or two to say about that kind of thing.

"I wanna believe" is where the problem starts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JonLP24 (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 09:36 AM

17. Oh man, Mugabe had a firm cadre of DU fans

 

back in the day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Codeine (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 31, 2020, 12:20 PM

22. When please, after a admittedly short search, I'm not seeing it. Thx

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to irisblue (Reply #22)

Fri Jul 31, 2020, 12:52 PM

25. From before DU2 was started.

 

Iím getting error messages when I click on search engine results, which may mean the database is unavailable. Iíll try again later in case itís a temporary issue.

But anyway, old DU hands remember the small but loyal Mugabeist cadre. Silly people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 02:23 AM

7. Hopefully not with Zimbabwe dollars. Maybe it's better now but awhile back

It was like the Weimar Republic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 02:24 AM

8. These are difficult issues but it's mostly about trying to get a better future for those living

there.

I have read about how Rwanda has dealt with the genocide and when people read individual stories they might say things like "if i was them i would never .........." . But that ignores so much and how that kind of attitude just keeps conflicts going .

There is a point where you have to move on and that includes doing things which may not seem totally fair at the moment.

They actually don't have the money for these reparations so hopefully white colonial powers will give it to them to pay to the white farmers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 09:36 AM

18. The Rwandan Reconciliation movement is a good analogy

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 06:38 AM

10. WTF is right

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 09:33 AM

16. Excellent and fair compromise

Colonialism was monstrous.

Mugabe was a monster.

Fair, and it should go a long way toward moving the nation forward.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 31, 2020, 12:22 PM

24. I think it is a terrible decision.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 12:17 PM

19. Good solution it seems

Though Iím not surprised some of the low info, knee jerk types here donít get it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Thu Jul 30, 2020, 12:36 PM

20. :) Why on earth should you be surprised?

When one race has a controlling majority, inevitably sometimes that majority is doing to exploit and abuse, even persecute, minorities.

To have good government, good people have to be in charge. True everywhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ex Lurker (Original post)

Fri Jul 31, 2020, 01:17 PM

26. "Please come back and make our Country Great Again

We won't even kill, persecute, or take your land this time. At least until you build it all back up and it becomes worth killing you, or persecuting you, and taking it away again. Really."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread