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I think AOC has diminished herself with her attack on the famous humanitarian, Fr. Damien of Molokai:
LakeArenal
(28,806 posts)KPN
(15,638 posts)a source that lobs softballs for tRump to hit out of the park in interviews without absolutley no follow questions -- pure, unadulterated bullshit.
Last edited Thu Aug 6, 2020, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)
Being on the other side of the pond (Ireland) i am not overly familiar with the political inclinations/nuances of various American media operations. I just picked one at random that seemed to cover the issue. What's important here is the message issue raised by AOC rather than the outlet that highlights it. Incidentally it's in quite a few media sources many of which I presume don't pose a problem for you.
Anyway here is a detailed link from the UK Catholic Herald -- an organisation with which, I presume, you don't have an issue:
https://catholicherald.co.uk/a-roundup-of-reaction-to-ocasio-cortezs-st-damien-memorial-critique/
maxsolomon
(33,252 posts)AOC (who was likely at least raised Catholic as she's Latina) said the saint was indicative of Colonialism. The author doesn't dispute that assertion, just says that Damien was selfless.
Both things can be true.
BTW, King Kamehameha "united" the islands in a brutal war of conquest. He gets a statue in DC, as well.
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2016/11/07/king-kamehamehas-conquest-of-hawaii/
anamnua
(1,103 posts)In my own modest and limited way I am trying to follow in the tradition of RLS.
Autumn
(44,986 posts)demmiblue
(36,824 posts)I hope she does Mother Teresa next.
ok_cpu
(2,046 posts)Link to tweet
?s=19
Mariana
(14,854 posts)It seems Daniel Dale and EWTN would like that to happen again.
hunter
(38,304 posts)Link to tweet
At no point did I say Fr. Damien was a bad figure - in fact, I explicitly stated that my observations werent about litigating his or any individual statue.
Its about the fact that a huge supermajority of statues in the Capitol are white men. Barely any women or BIPOC.
"Conservative" Catholics are hypocrites. Quite a few of them are fascists and misogynists as well.
The cultural contributions of Hawaiian women, like all women, are largely erased from history.
(I'm a left wing Catholic heretic, radical environmentalist, and social justice warrior, it that matters...)
anamnua
(1,103 posts)Make no mistake about it: this will remain a serious stain on her record unless and until she apologises.
She picked the wrong statue to tilt at -- to put it at its mildest.
After Damien was canonized in 2009, President Obama wrote the following words to Pope Benedict XVI:
Fr. Damien has also earned a special place in the hearts of Hawaiians. I recall many stories from my youth about his tireless work there to care for those suffering from leprosy who had been cast out. Following in the steps of Jesus' ministry to the lepers, Fr. Damien challenged the stigmatizing effects of disease, giving voice to the voiceless and ultimately sacrificing his own life to bring dignity to so many.
Obama was born in, and spent his formative years in, Hawaii.
Mahatma Gandhi:
The political and journalistic world can boast of very few heroes who compare with Father Damien of Molokai
Let's get real here: this guy was no Nathan Bedford Forrest or Jefferson Davis. He stepped into the breach when nobody else would. And he stuck to his healing ministry to the bitter end even when he knew he was facing into a prolonged and agonising death from leprosy.
He was essentially a penniless immigrant social worker who lived a life of vowed poverty and hardship: Ms Ocasio-Cortez is on 174,000 PA!
Hekate
(90,565 posts)...knew of the work of Father Damien De Veuster (as we knew him then). Leprosy was a devastating, contagious, disfiguring, and fatal disease. There was no treatment whatsoever for leprosy, and as it was highly contagious, especially among native Hawaiians, the afflicted were simply taken to the remotest part of a remote island and let go into the surf. The remainder of their days was Hell on Earth, as their bodies decayed to the bone, pieces fell off, and maggots took residence.
Father Damien went to them, lived with them, gave them hope, helped build a place to live in with some measure of dignity, not just die in. And he himself contracted this terrible disease and died of it.
AOC speaks from a place of profound ignorance if she thinks he was a white colonist, and nothing else. In Hawaii there were and are many religions. No one else came. Only Damien.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)How does this post support a Democratic Representative who is currently campaigning for office?
anamnua
(1,103 posts)If they make an asinine statement like this they deserve to be taken to task for it. Besides not a few Catholics; and not a few informed, fair-minded non-Catholics; who would consider voting for AOC will be unimpressed by her assault on a great humanitarian icon. And will remain unimpressed until she makes an effort to repair the damage.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)Primary is over.
Find something supportive to say or share it on Facebook. Not here.
anamnua
(1,103 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 10, 2020, 08:22 PM - Edit history (8)
You expect certain standards from someone presenting himself/herself for election as a Democrat. If they fail to measure up to those standards you are entitled to pull them up on it. AOC, along with all Democratic representatives, is a standard-bearer for the party; therefore her comments here reflect negatively on us all.
In his advocacy for, and general support of, this marginalised and stigmatised fringe group (literally to the death) Fr. Damien actually epitomised modern, progressive, Democratic values. In traducing him she traduced the vaues she claims to uphold. The only excuse I can think of is ignorance on her part of the facts in relation to this great martyr/humanitarian. Hopefully this deficit has been corrected.
Let's paint a relatively modern analogy:
You have a geographically isolated community of impoverished, mainly non-Caucasion and of both genders, HIV sufferers in the 80s at a time when the disease was shrouded in much misinformation and stigmatisation.
A doctor decides to take care of them -- for a pittance, and working in substandard conditions -- when nobody else will.
He does so in the full understanding that he will in all probability contract HIV in so doing.
He does contract HIV.
He keeps looking after them to the bitter end -- until his own disease becomes terminal.
Decades later a statue erected to his memory is dismissed as a monument to 'patriarchy and white supremacy'!!
Let's face it, if Trump said something like this there would now be millions of google searches for 'Fr. Damien' and 500+ posts on DU rightly tearing him to shreds. But you wouldn't expect anything better from the Donald.
I would suspect that quite a few of her Puerto Rican Catholic support base have given her an earful over this. And I wouldn't be surprised if Obama, who actually knows something about Hawaii and Fr. Damien, rang her up to express some blunt opinions.
She has actually stepped into the shoes of Reverend CM Hyde in her misinformed criticisms (see my fourth post). I am doing what I can to figuratively channel Robert Louis Stevenson.
All AOC has to do to wipe the slate clean is to issue a brief apology/clarification.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)Do you support the Democratic candidate currently running for office?
Are you voting for anyone running on the Democratic ticket this election?
anamnua
(1,103 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 8, 2020, 07:27 PM - Edit history (1)
I am non-American and based abroad. Nevertheless I do what I can to advocate for the US Democratic Party and anywhere I've had a vote I've voted for parties whose political philosophy approximates to theirs. I hope AOC retains her seat. However the point must be made that there is a large Catholic demographic in New York (Irish, Italian, Hispanic...) for whom this saga will go down like a lead balloon.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)"At no point did I say Fr. Damien was a bad figure - in fact, I explicitly stated that my observations werent about litigating his or any individual statue.
Its about the fact that a huge supermajority of statues in the Capitol are white men. Barely any women or BIPOC."
~Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez @AOC US House candidate, NY-14
Link to tweet
As an American I say Fuck Religious tests.
I don't care if she pissed on the pope. If my representative pissed on a fucking pope Statue and helped degenerates tear it down. I would still vote for her.
FreeState
(10,570 posts)And the OP hasnt addressed it. Id assume its because the truth doesnt fit their narrative.
Bettie
(16,078 posts)"Support Democrats" seems to exclude AOC...I'm not entirely sure why, but a lot of people would bash her if she said the grass is green.
anamnua
(1,103 posts)And I have given detailed explanations why. I am a Catholic of the liberal sort -- like Joe Biden. During his lifetime Fr. Damien stood up for this marginalized and stigmatized group of outcasts. 131 years later I make no apologies for sticking up for him.
Bettie
(16,078 posts)The point about white men being the vast majority of statues in the capitol is a valid one.
Response to Bettie (Reply #19)
Post removed
Bettie
(16,078 posts)of some really hate filled posters.
They will look for any excuse to bash her. They were very excited about her right wing opponent in the primary.
I don't exactly know why, but it has been constant from the second she won her first primary.
I find her to be a breath of fresh air. I wish we had more like her.
Hekate
(90,565 posts)...as a person born and raised in NYC, perhaps she confused Fr Damien with Fr Junipero Serra of California.
Both my states are very far away from her center of the universe, and both these men were priests of the Roman Catholic Church. They were born centuries apart and operated in different parts of the globe, but no matter. Serra broke apart indigenous tribes with the assistance of the Spanish Conquistadores, while Damien went to a leper colony in a kingdom already devastated, but no matter.
AOC is a rising star in the Democratic Party, and I watch her career with interest. But she is capable of error.
anamnua
(1,103 posts)whttevrr
(2,345 posts)As an American I say Fuck Religious tests.
Fuck Statues!
Fuck Religion!
If my representative pissed on a fucking Pope Statue and helped degenerates tear it down, I would still vote for her. I mean real fucking degenerates too. She could drag murders out of a prison to help tear the fucking statue down and I will still vote for her. My rep is not AOC but she is a woman of color and I am amazed at the level of bullshittery that these women have suffered through to become amazing humans.
I do not care if they are Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Protestants, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Satanist, or fucking Spaghetti Monster Cthulhuists. It does not matter. If there is a statue that is relegated to the dustbin of History, I do not fucking care.
This is about fucking statues. Fuck statues. I care more about the lives and well being of my fellow citizens than I do about some pigeon stained stupid fucking statue.
yortsed snacilbuper
(7,939 posts)anamnua
(1,103 posts)Trying to discredit Christianity by focusing on a particularly outlandish expression of Christianity. The fact is that us Catholics were quite high up in the Klan's hate-list: number 3 after African-Americans and Jews. If they thought about Damien at all -- this is not inconceivable: their heydeys coincided -- it would have been with extreme loathing (Catholic and championing largely, but not entirely, non-Caucasians).
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)whttevrr
(2,345 posts)The whole thing is bullshit. AOC did not say what this post is implying. It is Religious Fuckery to the extreme.
It is being used to disparage a woman who is currently running for office in a national election
Iggo
(47,537 posts)Hekate
(90,565 posts)...every adult, every Hawaiian knew of the work of Fr Damien De Veuster.
Leprosy was a devastating, contagious, disfiguring, and fatal disease. It still is, if untreated. There was no treatment whatsoever for leprosy, and as it was highly contagious, especially among native Hawaiians, the afflicted were simply taken to the remotest part of a remote island and let go into the surf. The remainder of their days was Hell on Earth, as their bodies decayed to the bone, fingers and feet fell off, noses collapsed inward, and maggots took residence.
Father Damien went to them, lived with them, gave them hope, helped build a place to live in with some measure of dignity before death. And he himself contracted this terrible disease and died of it.
AOC speaks from a place of profound ignorance if she thinks he was a white colonist, and nothing else. In Hawaii there were and are many religions. No one else came. Only Damien.
Perhaps as a person born and raised in NYC, perhaps she confused Fr Damien with Fr Junipero Serra of California? Serra has been in the news lately, after all.
Both my states are very far away from her center of the universe, and both these men were priests of the Roman Catholic Church. They were born centuries apart and operated in different parts of the globe, but no matter.
Junipero Serra could rightly be called an agent of European colonialism: in his zeal to convert, he broke apart and virtually enslaved indigenous tribes with the assistance of the Spanish Conquistadores.
Father Damien, on the other hand, went to a leper colony in a kingdom where the native culture was already devastated, but no matter I guess, if you are simply trying to make an important point about race and gender.
After statehood, the sculptress Marisol Escobar was commissioned to create the statue that now resides in Statuary Hall. She chose to work from photos taken in 1889, the final year of his life, and it is no exaggeration to say the result shocked the hell out of people in both Honolulu and Washington DC. Here is no plaster saint. Here is no faux-Roman marble bust in a toga. Here is no conquering hero with a chestful of medals. Here is a man, dying for those he served.
AOC is a rising star in the Democratic Party, and I watch her career with interest. But she is capable of error. I think she tried to take back the implications of what she said, but the fury with which her defenders are attacking even the most on-point corrections is not helping her or anyone else.
For anyone who is interested in the life of this man and his place in the history of Hawaii, I suggest Holy Man: Father Damien of Molokai by Gavan Daws, University of Hawaii Press, 1973. It is an entirely secular work of scholarship, for those to whom it matters.
PS for Anamnua: I am not writing as a Catholic, though my grandparents were of that faith. I write as one who cares about my home state, its history, and the truth, as best I can. Peace. See you around.
~~Hekate
anamnua
(1,103 posts)It's a relief to have an ally at long last -- especially one that knows the man and the place and knows what he/she is talking about.
anamnua
(1,103 posts)whose degree of self-sacrificing humanitarian dedication almost defies comprehension: making the ultimate sacrifice in way that was particularly long and excruciating. He was actually offered a return to Belgium for medical treatment -- but chose to stay with his people. He kept working up to two weeks before his death from leprosy.
He was fearless in his advocacy for his community standing up to the Hawaiian government and even to the establishment in his own church.
A few clips that sum him up:
&t=1s
No self-respecting leftist/humanitarian/progressive can really argue with a record like that.
This leads to the $64,000 dollar question?
Damien, good guy or not?
And if not why not?; and do you think Messrs Obama and Ghandhi were poor judges of character?