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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBrown to Warren: "She said she is a native American and look at her, obviously she's not."
woah...that was his introduction.
I'll share the good stuff with y'all.
doublethink
(6,823 posts)elleng
(130,870 posts)doublethink
(6,823 posts)He comes off like a real thug.
elleng
(130,870 posts)Thanks for the link. Posted it as a free-standing thread, at GD.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)that he backed out of their planned debate tonight. Says he has work to do in the Senate.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)Reid did it on purpose!!
mimi85
(1,805 posts)sorry! Can't wait for the analysis.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)you'll have to look up the debate notes to get an exact quote.
CatWoman
(79,296 posts)graywarrior
(59,440 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)so what do people with native American heritage look like?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)and her kids one-eighth.
Tracer
(2,769 posts)And my son was the blondest toddler you'd ever find.
Brown's petty remarks were completely offensive.
HoneychildMooseMoss
(251 posts)or something like that
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)HoneychildMooseMoss
(251 posts)I wrote in another thread that I have some Native American (Cherokee) blood in my family, and all the males look strictly Caucasian, while the females tend to have Cherokee features.
mercuryblues
(14,530 posts)My great-grandmother was Indian. The discrimination was so horrid that when she gave birth to her kids, the mother's name was left blank on their birth certificates. My Grandmother married an Irishman. I have auburn hair and blue eyes my youngest has red hair and blue eyes, who is certainly part Indian. Like Warren, I have never bothered to get Indian 'certification'. In brown's world, because I do not have dark skin [I hear you can get that out of a bottle] I cannot possibly be part Indian.
My ancestors were discriminated against because of their skin color and now according to the smug bastid, their struggles should be meaningless to me because of their descendants skin color.
demwing
(16,916 posts)No wonder Brown is confused.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)My cousin, who is 1/4 First Nations/Native Canadian has blond hair and blue eyes. She does have some features that are classified as stereotypical native, but still. Blond hair and blue eyes - her dad is Metis and his mom was Icelandic so it's not a mystery why she looks that way. I can see one more generation and the 'features' could well be completely gone. Moral is: You can't tell by looking. Does anyone remember, on America's next top model once there was one girl who was tall, pale and blond, looked Norwegian almost, and she revealed her mom (by birth, not adoption) was African American and no one believed her. Recently she appeared on Dr. Phil (she's a hardcore addict) and her parents were on. Her mom is clearly A.A. and her sister looks black. But this girl was blond. It's never okay to make those assumptions. My SIL, who is half Jamaican, has a niece who is pale/blond.
I wonder if that moron Brown knows how genetics work. Didn't he ever learn about recessive genes? Idiot. My ex and I both have brown eyes and 3 of our 4 kids have green or green/hazel eyes. Doesn't mean they aren't my kids. My ex's dad has blue eyes and my dad has green eyes. So no real mystery if you're smart enough to understand rececessive genes.
librechik
(30,674 posts)would that satisfy you?
renie408
(9,854 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)CTyankee
(63,909 posts)NOT!
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)CTyankee
(63,909 posts)ACK!
sammytko
(2,480 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,681 posts)I think at one time she said her family told her they had a Native American ancestor, so she's maybe 1/8 at most Native American. Was she supposed to show up wearing a feather headdress and beaded moccasins? What was he talking about? Is he racist or just stupid?
sammytko
(2,480 posts)nebenaube
(3,496 posts)Brown is a fucking twit!
shanti
(21,675 posts)as my ex-husband. he was at least 1/4 choctaw, plus some cherokee. you could definitely tell his indian ancestry by looking at him, though.
nebenaube
(3,496 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)bigtree
(85,992 posts). . . and bronzer.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)he claims he is working on a stealth tax.
maxsolomon
(33,320 posts)or does that only apply to black presidents?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)the only qualifier, regardless of how little %age you are. But her family had lots of stories handed down telling of how life was when they were known as basically half-breeds in their area, they got trouble from both whites AND natives with more pure ancestry.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)as white and concealed the Indian part of their heritage back before the 70's when the American Indian Movement stepped forward.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Warren's own family had some folks who embraced it, and many more who tried to deny it.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)Brown plays the part of the proverbial victim quite well.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)how Elizabeth is lyyyying about him and what he represents. Actually, she hasn't been hard enough on him. She actually says in one ad that he's not a bad guy and that he doesn't always vote the wrong way, but then goes on to list his shortcomings. Pretty tame if you ask me.
I also can't stand his fake "folksy" ads where he tries to portray himself a an all around good guy, family man and champion of the underdog. He basically says nothing of substance, it's all show. He keeps talking about being an "Independent" candidate and voter which is highly misleading. He's a Republican and should be taken to task for trying to mislead the undecided.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)julian09
(1,435 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)I'm surprised he didn't bake fresh cookies for Jon Keller.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)not a perfect quote...i'm listening and typing.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)I will not vote to increase on working families ever.
Brown will defend the top percentages.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)wryter2000
(46,039 posts)"He would let taxes go up for 98% of families to protect the top 2%"
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)i think he meant to attribute it to them.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)brown: accuses her of placing blame and raising taxes. He is accusing of doing things she has never done (since she has not held office).
1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)She is well prepared, hitting him on his voting record, while he just stammers the same old platitudes.
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)wryter2000
(46,039 posts)"She's obsessed with raising taxes."
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)wryter2000
(46,039 posts)That allows employers refuse coverage for any health issue they have some vague problem with.
DippyDem
(659 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I'm an 1/8 NA and I am pale with tons of freckles, red hair and have never had a tan in my life. Looking at me you would never know I had anything but scot/english blood.
His picking on this particular thing is just irritating and juvenile at this point
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)wryter2000
(46,039 posts)n/t
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)She is fact filled, he is just blowing smoke with probes at the emotion.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)no need to apologize.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)He keeps accusing her of being obssessed, lying, making stuff up and he does not refer to many facts.
wryter2000
(46,039 posts)"We have to get serious with a balanced approach" to taxes.
wryter2000
(46,039 posts)Abortion now.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)her genealogy to look into this. The Delaware/Lenni Lenape were the first to sign a peace treaty with the new USA in the late 1700s, and they were relocated to Ohio from western NY. She also has a lot of WASP blood.
The Delaware include in their tribe anyone who can show lineal descent. It does not require any particular percentage like 1/8 or 1/16. A photo of I think her g-grandfather looks VERY Native American.
Scott Brown is an ignorant, racist asshole.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Brown is a real dickhead.
Cha
(297,167 posts)Brown was rallying the Women in Mass to Vote AGAINST him.
bluesbassman
(19,372 posts)He was in an ASL class and signed to one of his classmates "NA". When the teacher asked him what he was doing, he replied "I said I was Native American". The teacher said nothing, but the next day he pulled my son in front of the class and said that he had checked the school records and found nothing indicating Native American and accused him of lying about his heritage. My son was stunned and didn't respond, but it made him angry as he's very proud of his heritage. My wife has always been careful to make sure that "Native American" was indicated in the kid's school registrations, but apparently someone forgot to transcribe it to his permanent record at H.S. When he came home that night and told us what happened I went ballistic. First I called the school and made an appointment with the principal, then I called my son's uncle, the Chairman of their tribe, and asked to get a copy of my son's tribal registration. His uncle did more than that; he composed a beautiful two page letter about intolerance and the bigotry the tribe has experienced over the years, and how hard they have worked to overcome the negative attitudes.
You should have seen the look on the teacher's face when he was presented with the letter and a copy of my son's tribal registration. Of course he apologized, but before letting him off the hook, I berated him for making false accusations and for humiliating my son in front of his classmates.
BTW, here's my wife, son, and daughter at a tribe function a couple years back.
Your son is one of the best looking guys I'd ever saw in my life! I can see Native American in him clearly!
Wow! Arf! Arf! Arf!
bluesbassman
(19,372 posts)I'll let him know you said that.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)I'm a straight dude and your son is one handsome man.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)bluesbassman
(19,372 posts)TuxedoKat
(3,818 posts)that that happened to your son. I hope the teacher apologized to him in front of the class too. As an aside, your son is a very handsome young man!
Skraxx
(2,970 posts)(the girls that is!)
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)warren: "Equal pay for equal work, Brown voted against it."
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)make a point.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)she is slapping him down with his voting record over and over. fact after fact.
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)deployed".
She demands a whole plan, entry, fight, exit in place before you go to war.
brown: "We can't have a nuanced approach. Warren (Iran) asks for a nuanced approach."
He says he is drawing a line in the sand for Iran. (referring to going back to washington to work)
Warren: "We cannot have a nuclear Iran. I think Obama has done a good job.... He has taken nothing off the table and that's the best way. "
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)"we all recognize the risks israel faces."
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)way they support a pro choice candidate. Nice try.
wryter2000
(46,039 posts)She's bringing up his record...voted against equal pay for equal work, against health coverage for birth control. Has been endorsed by anti-choice groups.
Bastard "Stop scaring women, professor."
He's talking a "conscience exemption." Asshole
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)flamingdem
(39,313 posts)ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)graywarrior
(59,440 posts)sorry
whistler162
(11,155 posts)graywarrior
(59,440 posts)Blaukraut
(5,693 posts)flamingdem
(39,313 posts)wryter2000
(46,039 posts)He voted for the Blunt amendment.
She's hammering him on that (employeers can refuse to cover birth control for vague reasons of "conscience"
He's quoting the Chamber of Commerce on this issue??!!
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)and desperate.
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)malaise
(268,955 posts)pacalo
(24,721 posts)1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)She's killing him in this debate because she is actually debating.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Blaukraut
(5,693 posts)She puts a human face on missions before going into policy, by mentioning soldiers and families
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)graywarrior
(59,440 posts)1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)Staying on subject to a pretty good extent too.
elleng
(130,870 posts)chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)wryter2000
(46,039 posts)The high cost of education is administrative costs and salaries. WTF? He made a crack about her having a free loan. Don't know what that was about.
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)wryter2000
(46,039 posts)n/t
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)he said "She is not telling the truth". She only talks about his voting record and he calls her a liar
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)Blaukraut
(5,693 posts)People will visually connect Brown to McConnell, whom they do not like.
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)he never wants to admit. Listening to him, he wants people to think he is an independent.
wryter2000
(46,039 posts)elleng
(130,870 posts)NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)She did say the Boston Globe said it simply was not true. I don't know if the Boston Globe looked into this.
Were her parents never married due to the racial differences?
elleng
(130,870 posts)We'll probably hear more about asbestos etc.
NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)story entirely
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)"One of the more aggressive charges from Brown came when he accused Warren of taking the side of a giant insurance company against asbestos victims. It's true that Warren worked as an expert for Travelers Insurance in a major asbestos case, but she was working to create a $500 million trust for current and future victims, as well as to preserve a key element of the bankruptcy code, the Boston Globe has reported. She and Travelers were successful in that effort, but after Warren left the case, Travelers managed to wriggle out of its $500 million payment, hurting victims desperately."
Bombtrack
(9,523 posts)(Partisan, rich, right wing lobbyists and not "independent groups" as Senator Zoolander was characterizing them as.)
wryter2000
(46,039 posts)"Some man-made and some natural."
He's for the Keystone Pipeline.
wryter2000
(46,039 posts)If the Rs take over the Senate, Imhoff will be over the EPA
chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)JohnA1
(67 posts)Brown seemed arrogant and wanted to run from his record. Warren was calm, composed and had the facts on her side and I like how she reminded everyone that control of the Senate is at stake.
Man do I hope she wins!
NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)To me he came across as schmarmy, the only thing he kept saying was Warren would raise taxes, that's her solution to everything he says.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)XemaSab
(60,212 posts)reduce dependance on foreign oil?
Raine
(30,540 posts)feathers in their black hair (???), how are they supposed to look? What a disgusting racist statement!
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)repeated a lot of catch phrases to refute her facts.
He was emotional and went for reaction. She made note of where her info came from and did not rely on many catchphrases. She said she was in full support of Obama several times. Brown never mentioned what's-his-name, the ex-governor of the state (that I recall). (quite telling, that)
If I was judging a college debate I would judge in Warren's favor.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)A lot of snide remarks, yes, but they were very effective. The asbestos charge, the $375,000 salary for teaching one class, those charges hurt, and went unanswered.
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)hope he can prove it's not true
NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)It was also notable because Warren, who has gained fame for defending consumers against big business, was in this case working on behalf of a big business. For her contribution, Warren was paid $212,000 over three years by Travelers, the nations largest insurer.
Travelers was fighting to gain permanent immunity from asbestos-related lawsuits by establishing a $500 million trust. The trust would have been divided among current and future victims of asbestos poisoning who had claims against the nations largest asbestos manufacturer, Johns-Manville, which had been insured by Travelers before it went bankrupt.
Travelers won most of what it wanted from the Supreme Court, and in doing so Warren helped preserve an element of bankruptcy law that ensured that victims of large-scale corporate malfeasance would have a better chance of getting compensated, even when the responsible companies go bankrupt.
But after Warren left the case, it continued to twist and turn through the legal system, leaving a result that has been disastrous for asbestos victims. Travelers, in part because of its Supreme Court victory, has held onto its immunity from most lawsuits. But a ruling on Feb. 29 in a separate court has taken the company off the hook for paying out the $500 million settlement.
http://articles.boston.com/2012-05-01/metro/31499452_1_asbestos-case-asbestos-victims-travelers
Looks like it didn't work out how she may have planned.
NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)foreseen the case with Chubb would have the effect it did on the trust... the judge who issued that ruling was just wrong.
dkf
(37,305 posts)NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)randomly threw the trust out, did I read that's the firs time that's happened? I think she was certainly acting in good faith, and hopefully appeals will work in the victims favor and she even said that.
1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)She stuck to script, she kept hammering him on his hard record, how he voted. A critical audience will appreciate that as compared to the sort of riff-raff that will watch a Presidential debate hoping it will break out into wrestling match or something. Debate watchers at this level tend to appreciate fact more than the emotional appeal that Brown kept trying to capture. That's my take on it anyway.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)just like us New Yorkers.
I'm open to correction, although I feel like I know Mass about as well as I know any state I'm not from.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)jsmirman
(4,507 posts)I mean, let's be honest, of course I think you're all massholes...
But being real, I felt like Brown was really playing up his Mass accent and needed to be slapped down on his claim that egregious oil subsidies lead to any difference at all at the pump.
I know that Mass is an educated electorate, but Brown did portray an easy guy charm, imo, and I was distressed by Warren's seeming unwillingness to directly engage.
That debate format was so purely Northeast, and I was concerned people would think, come on, take him on.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)...from here on out, we will be hearing more.
Talking like a Masshole may work on some, but not all of us.
julian09
(1,435 posts)AND she will be taking a big pay cut to become senator. that is dedication.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)jsmirman
(4,507 posts)it may be that I'm hungry and cranky.
But she looked to me like exhibit #1 why I have always thought that "debate people" and the ridiculous game of playing at "debate" is worthless.
It's a damn knife fight.
I still don't have an answer to the question of did she defend insurance companies against paying out claims - I'm sure it's not that there is not an answer, but you better give a fucking answer.
I thought that too many times she talked past things that needed to be answered. Debates may be about point accumulation - a debate for a political office is about attacking and defending.
I saw his charm, too, which was disturbing.
Please keep in mind I am a *strong* Warren supporter.
Why the *fuck* would she not make the point that billions in oil subsidies DO NOT TRANSLATE TO SAVINGS AT THE PUMP?
It's like she couldn't or wouldn't bring it down to a knife fight.
rhiannon55
(2,671 posts)I love her, but I was frustrated when she didn't answer his charges. It always annoys me when politicians sidestep a question or don't answer a charge in a straightforward way, even if it's MY politician doing it.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)She may have won on points. But average voters don't keep track of debate points.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)and for being on the side of the rich and wealthy. He was all over the place when she did that. Anyone with half a brain could see his heated reactions, and how was just flinging shit at a wall to distract viewers from his own record.
aquart
(69,014 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Boorish: implies rudeness of manner due to insensitiveness to others' feelings and unwillingness to be agreeable.
The word you're going to read about Scott Brown's performance in the debate tonight.
Think Lazio v. Clinton in 2000.
ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)Watching here:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/MassachusettsSenateDeb
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)Shows Warren ahead...
If you want to see and/or vote
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2012/senate/specials/stronger_first_debate/
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I go yearly to the one in Canton, GA. And it is a big yearly event. There are plenty of blond-blue-eyed Native Americans there. My former daughter-in-law was part Cherokee and her skin was as fair as mine and I am a blonde. She had dark hair though.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)He came off as smarmy, a jerk and very patronizing and condescending to Elizabeth Warren. I sure hope this helps Elizabeth Warren even more. My neighbors to the north in Mass deserve a good senator even if the second I drive across the state line you people drive like crazies and beep non stop. I will forgive you for the Mass Turnpike tolls.
NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)Glad I'm not the only one. Oh, and score one for the good guys, after Bush and Romney my Husband votes a straight Dem ticket.... We used to be Independent voters, when moderation wasn't a bad word. I was never an Inde after Mitt, he continued with Bush, I don't know how our marriage survived that.... but he's a strong Dem now
Terra Alta
(5,158 posts)She has very light skin, red hair, and freckles. You can't tell just by looking at her that she's half Native American.
Scott Brown is an idiot.
MatthewStLouis
(904 posts)LynneSin
(95,337 posts)Just saying!
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)what a freaking idiot!
madokie
(51,076 posts)no matter if he was slick here or seemingly intelligent there he had already lost. Did he cut his losses and go on, no he doubled down. He's about as slimy as they come. How anyone can still like him after his acceptance speech where he tried to sell his daughters off to the highest bidder. or it sound that way to me. blurting out, Yes they're available. From that and that alone tells me everything I need to know about the man. He's vacuous, an empty suit on steroids.
All needs to be said for Elizabeth is she is smart, pleasant and talks honestly with facts and was not intimated by his coming out and pouncing on her like he did and kept doing. I love her and hope she wins. I don't live there but she'll be good for me way over here in flyover land no matter.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)because Native Americans began to move to Europe over 500 years ago. Do the math, Scott. Some of the Pilgrims may have been moving home, albeit England was quiet separate from the Spanish realm.