Paul Begala: Don't look down on Trump voters

[brooklynite]

(from the HACKS ON TAP podcast)

"My Party, and I love my Party, I've spent my whole adult life in it; but they've got a problem with intellectual elitism, a terrible problem. It's real. A lot of elite Democrats love to look down their nose at Trump voters. 'Oh, how could they fall for this con'. You know, one of the smartest people I ever worked for was Frank Lautenberg. Senator from New Jersey, passed on.He was the CEO of ADP; he was a data pioneer, made millions or millions and millions of dollars. You know what he did? He invested part of his Foundation with Bernie Madoff. Total Con. Total Con. Frank was the smartest businessman I knew at least; I asked Frank, I said 'how could you believe that con man?'. He said 'I wanted to.' And that's what Trump voters did; they wanted to believe; it's not a character flaw to want to believe that someone can come in and drain the swamp, and give you better healthcare for less money, and bring fundamental change and cut deals. I just think its really important for Democrats to stop looking down their noses at people who honestly believed that Trump was a change agent."

[Wounded Bear]

1. They derided us for the "Hopey Changey thing"...

Fuck 'em.

[lame54]

2. And to those who still haven't figured it out?...

Even though it has been on full display for over 4 years?
Do the deserve our respect?

[brooklynite]

8. His argument is that the economic hopefuls (not the racists) are a reachable pool of voters

[StarfishSaver]

40. Anyoe supporting Trump now is a racist or ok with racism - and not "economic hopeful"

"Economic hopefulness" is not limited to white people. Plenty people of color are just as economically anxious as Trump voters claim to be, yet thy don't support Trump. There's a reason that only white people support him. And it's not because white people have cornered the market on economic insecurity.

[lame54]

53. That was the excuse the first time around...

If they haven't changed their stance after all the chaos and stupidity they are not paying attention

[brush]

3. No. They're idiots. If they have buyers' remorse and don't repeat their foolishness, I'll reconsider

[2naSalit]

4. Yeah... NO!

[LonePirate]

5. The problem is that they still view him as a solution change agent after four years of no change.

It’s his supporters’ refusal to see the truth that makes them worthy of scorn. They have proof that he is not who he claims and they still blindly follow him.

[brooklynite]

9. The prelude to this discussion was about a Michigan focus group...

...which found that Trump voters were angry that he hadn't delivered on health care.

[nevergiveup]

10. Bingo!!!

[eShirl]

6. you don't have to be elite anything to look down on Trump's Chumps

[ananda]

7. Good Nazis all?

???

[ProudMNDemocrat]

11. They are Trump Cultists in the same mindframs as Jim Jones...

They would drink cyanide-laced Kool Aid, knowing it will kill them, if Trump told them to drink it.

Trump is vowing to ELIMINATE Social Security if re-eelected, and still they will vote for him. CRAZY!!!

[Bucky]

12. "It's not a character flaw..."

I agree "it's not a character flaw to want to believe that someone can come in and drain the swamp."

It IS a character flaw to willfully ignore all evidence to the contrary when it's right up slapping you in your face and all you can muster for a response is "Get over it, libtard". It's a character flaw to excuse Trump's rampant Logorrhea and race-baiting. It's a character flaw to shun face masks while people are falling sick and being saddled with life-altering respiratory and cognitive disabilities out of a perverse sense of "conservative identity."

I'm not without character flaws myself. I know it's not decent to laugh at their foolishness and smirk an "I toldja so" in their faces when they and their neighbors and their kids' teachers suffer the consequences of their reckless irresponsibility. And honestly, I truly not to.

But I'm only human.

[brooklynite]

14. Again, those are not the voters we're going after...

[LizBeth]

13. Now we have the Dems coming out of the woodwork telling us how to behave and think putting us on

a different playing field that we already have with media and Republicans.

Yes I scorn the stupid. Yes I will be disgusted at those that buy into Q. Yes I will call it out. And I am no intellectual elitist. Just an average Joe that actually pays attention, listens, considers, process and continue to stay informed.

[qazplm135]

15. it's one thing to be fooled

We have all been there, even the smartest among us.

It's another to embrace the sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and utter horribleness of Trump.

Madoff is not remotely comparable. Begala is an old-school bipartisan Dem who is thinking in 90s-thought.

This is Trumpworld, and it ain't simply about people being "fooled" anymore. The ones who were fooled but otherwise decent people ain't voting for him anymore. They are the Never Trumpers or they are the ones embarrassed by their vote for them. Those folks we ain't looking down our noses at.

We are looking down our noses at the toxic -phobics/racists/sexists that cheer on the nastiest parts of Trump's vision.

[ibegurpard]

16. Can i forgive them...

... for focusing on that and ignoring a campaign of outright racism and hate? Maybe.
For continuing to stand by him now after all we've seen over the past four years? Absolutely not.
The Lautenberg example doesn't hold water because he actually acknowledged he'd been conned. These people would've drunk the koolaid at Jonestown.

[stillcool]

17. Where's he been?

Obviously hasn't visited real life lately. "Intellectual Elitism" Our country is about to go down the shitter, and he wants to play political games from the 80's. He should join Tucker, and they can yuck it up.

[gratuitous]

18. Challenge accepted, Paul; show us how it's done

Can you take a little time to sketch out a campaign strategy for the Georgia district that just nominated QAnon nutjob Marjorie Taylor Greene for the Republicans? She's the one who is on record saying that there is the whole international network of pedophile assassins connected through pizza-orders and attempted Deep State coups. She has said that Jews are the real Nazis, Black people are enslaved to the Democratic Party, and Confederate monuments are signs of progress. And she won the Republican primary for a seat that is very safely Republican.

Remember, you can't look down your nose at the voters who nominated Greene. Under your formulation, these voters honestly believe that Greene is the best Republican to represent their district.

Ready, steady, go.

[Aristus]

19. This isn't about investing money to secure one's future.

This is about embracing a known and open racist, bigot, misogynist, narcissist, polluter-of-the-waters.

This isn't about being innocently duped. It's about people voting for Trump precisely because they wanted him to hurt the people they didn't like.

Sorry, Paul. You're wrong on this one...

[Ferrets are Cool]

26. Well stated.

[griffi94]

20. Sorry, but I won't ever pretend that willful ignorance is equal to informed knowledge.

The Trumpers that I know, and it's a big number, all feel looked down upon when I refuse to
accept their arguments that white males are the most discriminated against group. Or that the SNAP
Program busted the budget. Or that welfare Cadillacs are a real thing.

If they don't want to feel looked down upon, then maybe they should stop spewing bullshit from RW media.
But what they really want is for their ignorant, uninformed opinions to be true.
And when reasonable people refuse to accept those positions as true, the Trumpers start screaming, "Agree with me or I'll burn it all down."

I'm not ever going to agree that up is down. I'm also not going to engage in pretzel logic that shows that up could be down,
if it were down instead of up, so both sides are right.

[EarlG]

21. Big fan of Paul Begala

And I appreciate his political savvy.

The thing is though, he's talking about two sets of people here, and he's lumped them together.

He uses the analogy of Frank Lautenberg falling for Bernie Madoff's scam to suggest that no matter how smart you are, anyone can fall for a scam. That's true.

But he's implying that Trump's voters are victims.

Sure, some of them are -- the ones who, like Frank Lautenberg with Bernie Madoff, "wanted to believe" in the con man's lies. They wanted to believe that Trump would give them great, cheap healthcare for example. Or that he would reduce the national debt to zero.

If those people realize what their previous votes have done to this country, and vote against Trump this fall, then they'll have gone a long way towards repairing the mistake they made while in thrall to the swindler.

But the rest? The majority of Trump's voters? The ones who plan to vote for another four years of this shit?

FUCK THOSE PEOPLE. They are not victims. They are the racists, the xenophobes, the misogynists, the homophobes, the haters, the un-American authoritarian assholes who wanted to "Make America Great Again" by putting nasty women in their place and sending colored people back where they came from.

They didn't vote for Trump because he fooled them. They voted for him because they were on exactly the same page. They are not victims, and they don't deserve to be treated as such.

When Frank Lautenberg found out Bernie Madoff was a swindler, did Lautenberg do everything he could in his power to keep Madoff out of jail and insist that he be allowed to keep swindling people? Or did he realize he'd made a horrible mistake and then regret it for the rest of his life? I'm guessing it was the latter. What would Begala have thought of Lautenberg if it were the former?

[spooky3]

31. Well said Nt

[Cirque du So-What]

22. I don't hate them because they're stupid

I hate them because they’re assholes.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

23. Fair enough. Now go vote for Joe and Kamala.

And get your heads out of that right-wing disinformation bubble that blinded you to Dirty Donnie's horrible flaws.


KY.......

PS: Based on my experiences, all that will never happen because it's a mortal sin for Republicans to admit to their faults and correct their mistakes.

[Ferrets are Cool]

25. Two words Paul...I can call you Paul, right?

FUCK OFF.

[Delarage]

27. They wanted to believe

That Mexicans are rapists, murderers, and drug dealers and that Mexico would pay to build his stupid wall.

They also wanted to believe that Obama was born in Kenya and was ineligible to be president.

Total bunch of deplorable dipshits. But I do believe in second chances, so if they show real penance, I'll consider.

[ck4829]

59. +1

[BusyBeingBest]

28. I think there were people that voted for Donnie Dumbass in 2016

just 'cause they liked the guy's TV show and didn't know much else about him. I can forgive that. Uninformed voters happen. But if they saw what a shitshow they've wrought with their votes and STILL support him now, there's no fixing that, and they need to marginalized from society.

[Azathoth]

29. The number of people who "honestly" believed he was a "change agent" is small

Begala is actually being the condescending one here by assuming that Trump voters are so inept that they couldn't see through his comically obvious fraud if they chose to. Bernie Madoff is a bad comparison. Like most Ponzi schemes, he actually made money at first, and then he and his accomplices forged boxes of documents to convince his victims that the money was continuing to be invested and earn returns. Some of the people who believed him should have known better, but he gave them enough cover to pretend to themselves they didn't see any evidence that something was amiss. And the rest of his victims simply weren't knowledgeable enough to realize that what he was handing them wasn't just miraculous, but impossible.

Trump doesn't even pretend to use that kind of sophisticated deception. He doesn't have a vast operation that forges trading reports and earnings statements. The overwhelming majority of his support comes from people who buy into, or more commonly pretend to buy into, what he says, not because he has given them *any* reason to believe it, but because it affirms their own bigotries and hatreds. Political candidates have been promising to "end corruption" in Washington since before there even was a Washington DC. Most of them didn't automatically earn right-wing cult leader status. Yet Trump earned it, and that was because his rhetoric about "draining the swamp" was tied directly to hurting immigrants and minorities and Muslims and gays and women and liberals and so forth.

There are plenty of genuinely stupid people on both sides of the political spectrum. But the large majority of Trumpers are not being conned. They're in on the con. Decades of conservative entertainment has taught the GOP base that conscious deception and dog-whistles and corruption are the best way to own the libs and hurt all the people they aren't allowed to hate openly.

[spooky3]

33. +1

[StarfishSaver]

44. Everything you said

The real condescension is in treating these people like delicate flowers.

[GoneOffShore]

51. You got that right.

[budkin]

30. Fuck all that.

I will look down on them FOREVER.

[stopdiggin]

32. denigrating the deplorables didn't really work all that well the last time

have to agree with that part of the equation.
Rest of it -- the part about Trump ever having been a reasonable choice -- or involved reasonable expectations? Nah. That's pure horses**t. Trump gained a lot of his support precisely because he was a middle finger thrust up at the world. Nothing "reasonable" about it. And nothing particularly "smart" about it.

It may not be be particularly constructive to call it out, but ...
If you think politics is really quite similar to reality TV -- you just might be a redneck. Dumb as dirt, is still -- dumb as dirt.

[MurrayDelph]

34. Well I'm sure as Hell

not going to look up to them.

[spooky3]

35. Calling Jon Stewart to explain once again to Begala

how our seeing ugliness for what it is, is not “elitism.”

[liberalmediaaddict]

36. They look down upon on us

Trump and the GOP have treated Democrats with disdain and ridicule ever since Obama got elected. They call us snowflakes, libtards and make verbal and physical threats towards anyone who disagrees with them.

They are willfully ignorant as their response to the Covid pandemic has shown. I don't think they were conned by Trump. They knew exactly what they were voting for: racism and xenophobia.

I don't look down upon Trump supporters. I'm terrified of them and where they want to take our country.

[StarfishSaver]

37. Looking down on - aka calling out - Trump voters is NOT "intellectal elitism"

I am sick and tired of being told to treat this sliver of a demographic with kid gloves. There's nothing special about them - other than the obvious - and they don't deserve extraordinary deference any more than any other group.

Choices have consequences and one of the consequences of the choices these people made is to get called out and nbe called to account for their ignorance,.selfishness and bigotry

This is really nothing more than kowtowing to the worst version of white fragility. I'm not here for it.

[NurseJackie]

38. Oh, Paul-Paul-Paul... screw that shit!

but they've got a problem with intellectual elitism, a terrible problem. It's real. A lot of elite Democrats love to look down their nose at Trump voters.

Oh, Paul-Paul-Paul... screw that shit! Why is he making excuses for Nazis, racists, bigots, homophobes, climate-change deniers, anti-vaxxers, anti-choicers, flat-earthers, sovereign citizens, and misogynists?

This sounds like a variation of "both sides"... and "the Democrats are just as bad as..." bullshit! Is that what he's doing? If I'm right, and if he is... then I'll put him in the same non-grata category as I have for Susan Sarandon.

[Whiskeytide]

39. Stupid people v assholes. I can have some ...

... empathy for stupid people. I know quite a few. I have republican friends who voted for Тяцмр and now deeply regret it and have pledged to vote for Biden. I have several republican friends who wrote someone in (kucinich mostly) because they knew Тяцмр was a fraud but they couldn’t vote for a Dem. And they now say they’ll vote for Biden this time. Several have expressed a self reflected shame for being fooled or for not appreciating what a Тяцмр presidency would actually be like. Most of them despise him now.

I can work with such people. I can forgive them, and have.

But the people who STILL support him? I know very few, but I see them all the time with their flags and bumper stickers, and having an attitude somewhere in public. They will get no quarter from me. They are assholes. I treat them like assholes.

[oasis]

41. Cult 45 Deplorable Dipshits are beyond redemption.

Who needs 'em?

[qwlauren35]

42. OK, I see that.

But to vote for him TWICE?

That doesn't make sense.

[SoonerPride]

43. I don't look down on them for falling for a con man. I look down on them for being racist fucksticks

and homophones and xenophobes and all sorts of other disgusting vermin.

fuck them.

they are evil.

[peggysue2]

45. Sure, everyone wants to believe

But when that belief is negated at every step, it's time to reassess.

Where's that healthcare or the cleaning of the swamp or the 'great deals' that Trump and his enablers promised. Where's the 'zooming' economy, the 3-4% increase in the GDP? Where are the jobs, jobs, jobs. For coal miners--how's your future look now? For those who have lost members of their family to Covid, how's that Miracle coming along, the hoax that wasn't?

Nothing Trump promised has come to pass. The country is on it's knees. Magical thinking will not get us out of the mess Trump created.

Remember babies in cages? Is that your definition of America? How about the Nazi display in Charlottesville? Is that your idea of being proud?

So yes, excuse the nonbelievers for being critical. If you cannot see what's before your own eyeballs, you're willfully blind. Change Agent Trump is leading us all over a cliff. It's not a matter of elitists looking down their noses. It's all about reality-based citizens not willing to commit national suicide.

Wake up, Trumpers. Your time in the sun is OVER and it's long overdue.

[greenjar_01]

46. Counterpoint: Gullibility, stubbornness, and aggressive stupidity actually ARE character flaws

[SiliconValley_Dem]

47. I'll look down in whoever I feel like looking down on including you, Begala

fuck off, hack

[Leith]

48. Why doesn't ANYONE suggest to chump supporters

to NOT be rude, hateful, or physically violent towards those who disagree with them? If I could hear that from somebody who is well known or holds sway with them, it would be a first.

[anamnua]

49. Amen

Love the sinner while hating the sin.

[struggle4progress]

50. Coming up next: "Albert Fish, an innovative chef"

[GoneOffShore]

52. Perhaps someone should send him a Junior Tone Police Badge.

Along with an 'I'm concerned' t-shirt.

[In It to Win It]

54. "intellectual elitism" is a label that the GOP placed on us

Dems don't go out of their way to be an "intellectual elite"

[Goodheart]

55. To state that falling for Madoff's con job is the same as falling for trump's

is downright stupid, Mr. Begala. Madoff's was professionally hidden, trump's is blatant.

[rownesheck]

56. People had well over 40 years

to see the type of dipshit asshole trump is. I could tell he was a fucking douchebag when I was a kid in the 80s. To pretend these stupid fucking people wanted to believe the horseshit he spews rather than voting for him because they themselves are a bunch of racist fuckfaces, is denying reality. Fuck all those nazi assholes and fuck you paul begala. I will always look down on them because I am a much better human.

[tblue37]

57. Like all those Q believers? nt

[JHB]

58. Paul, this is why the Lincoln Project is making effective ads, and you're...

Last edited Wed Aug 12, 2020, 08:35 PM - Edit history (1)

...ehhhh, doing whatever it is that you're doing. Spinning wheels?

Sure, they believed him because they wanted to. But it's less like Lautenberg believing Madoff and more like "good Germans" believing that shouty guy with the thumb's-width mustache and being OK with him and the things he did right up until foreign armies were occupying their towns.

People, especially those of us who are not insulated, complacent political consultants, have every right to be pissed at the ones who bellied up to the GOP/Trump all-you-can-swallow horseshit buffet and gleefully jeered at us for pointing out "that's not chocolate".


And if you think the Nazi analogy is over the top, Paul, then it's more proof that you have not been paying attention to what conservatives have actually been doing for the last 30 years. They've spent the entire time developing a base that wants to believe con men like themselves, and a showier, more ruthless one decided to drag race on the road they so thoughtfully built.

The GOP is not the Party of Trump. It's the Party of Ahab, and Ahab isn't Trump, it's their voter base. Trump's just the guy who promised Ahab White Whale steak dinners for life.

Don't lecture us, Mr. Political Consultant. We've had to deal with all this, and with them, a lot more directly than you have.

Why don't you take up the case with the people who need it. Start by convincing them that Hillary wasn't a socialist. Neither was Obama, Bill, Joe and Kamala, Nancy, nor anyone Democrat. Heck, that even includes Bernie and The Squad -- their programs have more in common with Dwight Eisenhower than with Fidel Castro.

Deprogram them. Wean them away from FOX and the rest of the echo chamber that spends all day making them "want to believe."

[Act_of_Reparation]

60. Spoken like a man who hasn't had significant interaction with an average person in decades.