General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums'A conspiracy': Alarms sound after postal worker reports removal of sorting machines
August 12, 2020
The head of the Iowa Postal Workers Union alleged Tuesday that mail sorting machines are being removed from Post Offices in her state due to new policies imposed by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, a major GOP donor to President Donald Trump whose operational changes have resulted in dramatic mail slowdowns across the nation.
Asked by NPRs Noel King whether she has felt the impact of DeJoys changes, Iowa Postal Workers Union President Kimberly Karola 30-year Postal Service veterananswered in the affirmative, saying mail is beginning to pile up in our offices, and were seeing equipment being removed.
Kimberly Karol, Iowa Postal Workers Union
Karol went on to specify that equipment that we use to process mail for deliveryincluding sorting machinesis being removed from Postal Service facilities in Iowa as DeJoy rushes ahead with policies that, according to critics, are sabotaging the Postal Services day-to-day operations less than 90 days before an election that could hinge on mail-in ballots.
Snip
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/a-conspiracy-alarms-sound-after-postal-worker-reports-removal-of-sorting-machines/
Comment: The sorting machines are one of the greatest advancement in paper processing. It can sort thousands of time faster than a human can and can understand our handwriting and get a piece of mail to the correct place. Without the investment that the USPO put into the science I doubt UPS, FedEX or even Amazon would be around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_sorter#:~:text=While%20early%20forms%20of%20a%20mechanical%20mail%20sorter,first%20semiautomatic%20sorting%20machine%20on%20April%2010%2C%201957.
nycbos
(6,033 posts)It used to be a bit more subtle.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)For much of the 20th Century, mail was sorted by hand using what is called a pigeon-hole messagebox method. Addresses were read and manually slotted into specific compartments. While early forms of a mechanical mail sorter were developed and tested in the 1920s, the first sorting machine was put into operation in the 1950s.
To handle rapidly growing mail volumes, the United States Postal Service installed the first semiautomatic sorting machine on April 10, 1957. The Transorma Letter Sorting Machine, manufactured by the Dutch company Werkspoor and distributed in the United States by Pitney Bowes, consisted of an upper and lower section, a conveyor belt transport and a series of five sorting keyboards. Operators read the destination and keyed a sorting code. The letter was then automatically transferred to a letter tray and deposited into one of 300 chutes. The Transorma could sort 15,000 letters per hour, double the amount that the same number of clerks could do by hand.
In 1965, the Postal Service put the first high-speed optical character reader (OCR) into operation that could handle a preliminary sort automatically[citation needed]. And in 1982, the first computer-driven single-line optical character reader was employed which reads the mailpiece destination address then prints a barcode on the envelope that could be used to automate mail sorting from start to finish.
With the U.S. Postal Service introduction of postal worksharing, ZIP + 4 and the POSTNET barcode in 1980, companies were given an incentive to sort their mail prior to inducting it at the Post Office. Today, presort and automation discounts can save companies up to 50% or more on postageand many companies use Mail Sorters to sort both incoming and outgoing mail.
Postal employees sorting mail, Los Angeles, 1951
tclambert
(11,080 posts)Hekate
(90,189 posts)QED
(2,730 posts)He had exams to do and I can remember him home practicing.
Sometimes, if one of his buddies saw a piece of our mail, there would be a silly note on the label from him.
yellowdogintexas
(22,119 posts)He would be livid at what is happening now
shanti
(21,670 posts)to Rachel Maddow. Hope she or one of her colleagues takes it up.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 12, 2020, 08:42 PM - Edit history (1)
Ali standing in for Chris Hayes is talking about it now!
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)Lasher
(27,500 posts)Every time he stands behind a podium, anywhere.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)qwlauren35
(6,112 posts)So what can we do about it?
I've contacted my senators and congressman.
What more? There's got to be more that we can do.
Could someone list all of the big businesses that use USPS, and we can contact them?
tclambert
(11,080 posts)You're welcome.
qwlauren35
(6,112 posts)I think most big businesses use their own private shipping trucks to move merchandise.
I know that banks and utilities are pushing hard for paperless.
I was thinking of companies that can't escape using the mail.
At any rate, I think I will write to my utility companies and banks and remind them that I get paper bills, and that the situation with the post office needs their attention.
qwlauren35
(6,112 posts)I'm quite serious. Some companies are no longer using mail that much, and this is not hurting them. Other companies are.
I wrote to one of my utility companies. Verizon doesn't have a link for writing in.
Don't you want to DO something?
tclambert
(11,080 posts)No exceptions.
Not everyone in this country has internet access. Not everyone has a computer. Every business has to make provisions to do business by mail. There is still a tremendous amount of advertising done by mail. A great many legal documents go by certified mail. A lot of parts and supplies come from vendors who don't have a dedicated nationwide delivery staff, except for the USPS. FedEx, UPS, and Amazon all use the USPS for some of their deliveries.
I didn't mean my response to be insulting. I aimed for mildly humorous. Sorry if I came off as obnoxious.
The USPS delivers about 150 billion pieces of mail per year, despite efforts to go "paperless." I don't think anyone ever actually achieves paperless. They can reduce the amount of paper they handle, but it always seems there are critical exceptions, and some end up going by mail.
qwlauren35
(6,112 posts)That's what I don't understand. They should be screaming.
KPN
(15,587 posts)The responses I got were not reassuring just thank you for letting us hear from you on this basically. And my Senators and Congressmen are ALL DEMOCRATs. Going to call again this morning.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)for his debt relief and the goods they hold on him. I don't trust a damn thing that goes on anymore.
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)in other key states critical to Trump striving for 270 EV
KPN
(15,587 posts)50 States. Im sure this affects and is or will be going on in all 50 states.
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)even with delays of some days people should receive theirs. I will not mail mine back but will drop it off as I did the last couple of times.
KPN
(15,587 posts)those can me monkeyed with, and especially in red and purple states, even blue states with an R Sec of State.
Trump is desperate and will resort to anything. 35-percent of Americans know it and support him fully. Another 15-20 percent will be confused by all the tRump/GOP spins and possibly doubt that votes have actually been stolen and voila they have enough support to withstand a challenge. Will the rest of us then go out en masse into the streets in protest with tenacity and persistence? Some will, but enough for long enough? Im guessing not.
We need all hands on deck right now, not after the election. We need to put a stop to this before it happens.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Chump's appointee is a logistics expert who knows exactly what he's doing. Lock. Him. Up. Now! 🤬
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)even more why this asshole in the WH has to be voted out!!!
certainot
(9,090 posts)what are his business interests? does he get major income from one or two businesses that can be boycotted?
and dems need to make clear he is going to be investigated and prosecuted for interfering with mail and sabotaging an election
media need to ask trump questions about it - if he says the wrong thing it might scare the crap out of dejoy
global1
(25,168 posts)are they that arrogant that they figure that they can get away with this with no consequences?
I guess so.
They are literally throwing it in our faces.
Criminal. Just criminal!!!!!
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)probably never figured there would be so many unscrupulous people in government willing/wanting to sell the country out. The checks and balances are failing for this crap. ... and those elements of media in this country for this type of crap tell the stooges that follow them, hey, it's OK. The US will fall from within if crap like this is allowed to continue.
ResistantAmerican17
(3,777 posts)Its being choked to death and republicans are the one killing it.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)I bet Putin is coaching him on how to remain in office.
ResistantAmerican17
(3,777 posts)RKP5637
(67,032 posts)tclambert
(11,080 posts)Yeah, that was funny.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)I know this is probably futile pie-in-the-sky but I just wrote a passionate letter to Jeff Bezos imploring him to think of any way he might be able to help in this situation. Amazon is in close partnership with the USPS (some say it's an abusive relationship--I didn't get into that in my letter) and depends upon them. I mentioned but didn't focus on the political aspect--I focussed on commerce, economics, late fees, etc.... because of the audience.
Jeff@amazon.com
Somebody will read it and if enough people write to him about this, maybe someone will tell him about it. I'm pretty sure he's already thinking about it too. It can't hurt to try.
PS: Jeff Bezos hates Donald Trump.
erronis
(14,955 posts)The unifying force between Trumps, Bezos, Kochs, Tusks, Mercers, Thiels, etc. is incredible wealth and a burning desire to have even more.
I think for them politics and posturing is just a game while they rack up another $n billion/day.
They can't get off this money train until it derails totally.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)Certainly, Bezos can't be too angry about the value of Amazon stock.
I always want to believe people have some good in them, even guys like Bezos.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)to make sure there is a fair vote. I do count Jeff Bezos among one of the good guys in life. Also Bill Gates might be able to do something if this gets really bad. A lot of powerful people in this country are probably not going to sit by and allow this ass in the WH to fully destroy the US.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)for giving the benefit of the doubt to others, at least lately.
Deep down, I hope we're right and somebody with some power will do something. Otherwise, a lot of suffering is going to happen in this country, both before and after the election.
Just maybe good will win out.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)That growth has come with controversy.
By Jason Del Rey Dec 19, 2019
Theres a reason your Amazon deliveries are increasingly showing up in an Amazon-branded van: The companys own delivery network is already monstrous, and growing fast.
The online retail giant announced on Thursday that its Amazon Logistics division was on track to deliver 3.5 billion packages globally in 2019 which accounts for approximately half of all of its worldwide orders, according to a spokesperson. (For comparison, UPS, which was founded 112 years ago, delivered 5.2 billion packages and documents for all of its customers in 2018.)
In the US alone, Amazons delivery network now handles the largest share of its customers orders more than its traditional delivery partners UPS and the United States Postal Service each account for the spokesperson added. That acknowledgment backs up a recent estimate from Morgan Stanley that Amazon Logistics was delivering 46 percent of all Amazon orders in the US, while a source previously told Recode that the US percentage has already hit 50 percent. A spokesperson declined to comment on that figure.
The huge growth of this new business line highlights the rapid pace at which Amazon is maneuvering its way into new corners of its customers lives. It also gives some credence to worries from business leaders, politicians, and activists alike that there are few industries safe from Amazons ambition and reach.
<snip>
Additionally, Amazon has begun offering a shipping service dubbed Amazon Shipping to merchants in some areas that would include non-Amazon deliveries as well, putting the company into direct competition with its current big partners like UPS and USPS. In these instances, Amazon would act in many ways like a traditional shipping company, handling everything from picking up orders at a merchants warehouse to executing the final delivery to their customers door. Morgan Stanley estimates that Amazon Logistics could be handling 1.5 billion to 3.5 billion non-Amazon packages by 2022, adding at least $7 billion in revenue to Amazons overall business. (my bold)
More at link.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)Leith
(7,802 posts)use the Post office to deliver packages to remote locations. You don't really think that Amazon is going to fly a plane to Point Barrow, Alaska, do you?
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Leith
(7,802 posts)To bolster your argument, I just looked on Wikipedia which said that the Pt Barrow airport gets an average of 33 flights per day in one year. No doubt at least one of the carriers could be paid to carry the packages.
I learned something new. Thanks!
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Anyway, sure doesn't seem like good news for our Postal Service.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)USPO is the only one. Otherwise everyone has to drive to the UPS or Amazon or FedEx post office to mail a check or letter. Sometimes it is only a 20 mile trip.. Piece of cake.
Blue Owl
(49,918 posts)It turns to shit.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,788 posts)Pathwalker
(6,596 posts)talked with my husband about it earlier today. The local area workers are spitting mad about it, too.
Scruffy1
(3,239 posts)I wish their were some reporters that weren't idiots. Which machines were moved? There are a whole lot of different machines used at postal facilities.
Pathwalker
(6,596 posts)crickets
(25,896 posts)tampering intended to sabotage federal elections... These are big crimes being committed right out in the open. Somebody throw the book at these goons. It's ridiculous that the situation been allowed to go this far.
patphil
(6,033 posts)The Post Office can't do it's job without those sorters. If mail delivery collapses, the nation's economy will take a huge hit, and tens of millions of people will be adversely affected.
The question I have at this point is, where are those sorters going?
Are they being stored, or sold?
Or junked?
Perhaps DeJoy will have a sudden change of heart after the election, or perhaps Trump will instruct him to let it die.
It will all depend on whether or not Trump wins.
In any event, let's see if Trump spin this as Obama's fault.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)November in time for the Christmas mail rush
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Bernieall hands on deck!
Lincoln needs to make an ad.
LymphocyteLover
(5,601 posts)undoubtedly they think hand sorting can allow them to select out certain ballots for "special delivery" into the waste bin...
yellowdogintexas
(22,119 posts)Besides. how would they know which ballots were the targeted ones? They are sealed, you know
LymphocyteLover
(5,601 posts)semi-legal excuse... I certainly hope postal workers would not engage in such a scheme but we're dealing with super crooks
ResistantAmerican17
(3,777 posts)soothsayer
(38,601 posts)They now have wee barcode sorters to sort their mail into route order (how they walk their route).
If they disabled/removed these, then carriers will have had to go back to the Benjamin Franklin-designed pigeon hole racks to hand sort, as they used to do just a few years ago (and forever). Problem is they changed start times so carriers arent getting in early enough to do this for ALL their mail and still be able to walk their routes w/o incurring overtime, I think.
I dont think it refers to the sorting machines I ran in the big sorting centers, where they sort all regional mail to go to the stations (for carrier sort and delivery) and such.
Scruffy1
(3,239 posts)Which machines where and why would be just a simple question to ask.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)soothsayer
(38,601 posts)The machines I ran sorted all the mail coming into northern va from all across the country, and all the mail mailed within nova to go wherever it was going.
40,000 pieces per hour.
If those machines go, then I dont know how theyd sort all that mail, because the old letter sorting machines (which could do about the same per hour, but with higher paid employees and 18 of them instead of 2 on my machines!) have been retired, as far as I know.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)of mail where no one can afford to send anything.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)mail hub and then the mail hub annex. For me, both in Litte Rock. Wen I see it hit the annex, I get it the next day.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Theres no way they could do away with them at the major sorting centers and not be overwhelmed with incoming mail piling up in tractor trailers in the parking lot and taking up every inch of floor space.
That would be mighty interesting to see. I wish the news would take a gander at one of those big sorting facilities and see whats up.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)7:54 AM
Package arrived at a carrier facility
Perryville, AR US
5:29 AM
Package has left the carrier facility
Little Rock Ar Distribution Center, US
Sunday, July 26
3:00 PM
Package arrived at a carrier facility
Little Rock Ar Distribution Center, US
2:26 PM
Package has left the carrier facility
Little Rock Ar Distribution Center Annex, US
Saturday, July 25
7:20 AM
Package arrived at a carrier facility
Little Rock Ar Distribution Center Annex, US
7:04 AM
Package has left the carrier facility
Little Rock Ar Distribution Center, US
1:56 AM
Package has left the carrier facility
1:48 AM
Package arrived at a carrier facility
Little Rock Ar Distribution Center, US
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Thats wild. My poor postal service. What are they doing to you?
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)by a couple of days.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Kaiserguy
(740 posts)it was shipped 3 day priority mail and say it in big letters on the shipping label. It was shipped July 22 and I got it today Aug 12th. This is one of many package that have taken a lot more time to get to me. Time to raise so much hell with every GOP elected official that they can't stand the heat
Hekate
(90,189 posts)Start making a ruckus. Tell them you want information and answers.
calimary
(80,699 posts)HIGHLY recommended!!!
Make some NOISE!
That, too, is highly recommended!
calimary
(80,699 posts)More folks out there pulling the rope in the same directions as you're pulling. That's where you meet 'em. And they're all doing Zoom meetings! That seems to be the connective tissue du jour. Some of those folks are so busy and so connected and so involved that they're doing multiple Zoom meetings a week, and even two or more on the same day/evening. That "six degrees of separation" thing can shrink noticeably, this way.
csziggy
(34,120 posts)I sent it June 11, they attempted delivery twice - to the building two doors down from the place where I mailed the letter. I got it back August 8.
I got a call from the Congressman's office and they will take it to a higher level. They are already familiar with the poor delivery record of that particular branch and have been trying to get something done about it since December of 2018. Some parts of the delivery route out this way were not getting mail delivered for as long as eleven days. It tanked one person's business since she was not getting checks from her clients.
Problem is, now I know nothing can be done about it and that things will not improve until at least next year.
Chakaconcarne
(2,387 posts)or is this happening only in Dem strong districts?
LAS14
(13,749 posts)... prone to vote by mail.
But, hey! I'm assuming Trump has a brain cell ior two nstead of rice pudding.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,063 posts)privatizing the mail. There is a TON (billions) to be made by some.
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)NBachers
(17,004 posts)is destroying Post Offices. He should be served with an arrest warrant on Inauguration Day.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)And there will be more of the same, along with underhanded tactics that we won't piece together until months/years after the fact.
None of the historical parallels apply at all. I've posted that here for years, ever since there were lengthy attempts to compare to Watergate, etc.
LAS14
(13,749 posts)Kablooie
(18,571 posts)Theres got to be national outrage before anything can be done and there is Very little time
Just as we thought, there will be last minute election disruptions without time to Correct them.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,154 posts)If they deny, disrupt, delay, and destroy enough ballots for him to win ?
Of course hell probably also order Barr to do an investigation, which will probably conclude that Trump would have won even BIGGER if the deep state Dems hadnt screwed with it.
But what Im asking is do you think anything could actually be done about it?
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)The WH after losing. And it's much scarier too. Say we are ahead in Wisconsin by 3 pts on election Eve. Dip "wins" by 2. Or more than recount threshold for recount to kick in. Then what do we do? Complain.
LaMouffette
(2,013 posts)1. Food bank distribution sites: Drop off your ballot while you pick up the food you can't afford to buy for yourself anymore because Trump, the greatest businessman in the world, has devastated the U.S. economy.
2. State unemployment offices:See reason for #1.
3. Covid-19 drive-through testing sites: Get a Covid-19 test and vote Typhoid Trump out of office at the same time.
4. Post office stations: Drop off your ballot and buy a roll of postage stamps to try to save the US Postal Service while you're at it.
5. U.S. military recruiting offices: Might as well use these places for something. They're probably not very busy these days, what with fewer people wanting to enlist in the service due to undoubtedly getting a Russian bounty placed on their heads.
Any other ideas?
yellowdogintexas
(22,119 posts)managed by the county elections office and bypass USPS. This is how they do it in the states which have mail in voting.
My daughter lives in Phoenix and she told me those boxes were everywhere. Their system is sort of a hybrid - once you have voted in person 1 time your ballot will come to you in the mail thereafter. If you move and change your address on your Driver's License it will update your voter registration information.
LuvNewcastle
(16,820 posts)Without the Republicans in power, people wouldn't be needing those services in such high numbers.
keithbvadu2
(36,367 posts)Blatant sabotage by Trump and his stooges.
Quixote1818
(28,903 posts)BadgerMom
(2,766 posts)The Senate will do nothing. We need an immediate stop.
KPN
(15,587 posts)We know the federal government wont do a thing with the GOP Senate. The States need to step in. Especially States like Oregon and Colorado who unquestionably have standing since their elections are all handled via mail in.
louzke9
(296 posts)have between 35 to 50 Million invested in private mail services! He has FINANCIAL INCENTIVES to trash the USPS. Where are those postal sorters going? Are they being sold off to private mail service? Who is pocketing the money?
BarbD
(1,191 posts)We need to make a lot of noise. Yes, to our congressmen and senators, but also to our State Representatives, State Senators, State Secretary of State, Town Clerk, Town Registrar of Voters. Did I leave anybody out?
Ferrets are Cool
(21,063 posts)BSdetect
(8,989 posts)Kid Berwyn
(14,651 posts)Great post, LiberalArkie! DU makes plain how Trump and DeJoy are interfering with the US Mail, a federal offense.
May the next AG be very busy. Oh, and a person of integrity.
AmyStrange
(7,989 posts)-
she promised to text me when it came (Seattle to CT).
It's 8 days later (2020-08-12), and it still hasn't arrived.
My books arrived last Friday from Amazon (Pennsylvania to Seattle), and it was shipped on the same day as my sisters letter (by the same USPS)!
Something kooky is definitely going on.
=========
TexasBushwhacker
(20,044 posts)to deliver packages within a certain time frame for a certain amount of money. They do not have a contract that requires a first class letter to be delivered (coast to coast) in a certain time frame for 55 cents. Sad but true.
However, the USPS would not be going broke if it weren't for the GW Bush era law requiring them to pre-fund their retirement pensions for 75 years in advance. No for-profit business is expected to do that, and the USPS is not for profit.
The thing is, UPS, FedEx and all the other package delivery companies that DeJoy has invested $75 MILLION into would love to take over USPS's package deliveries, but no one wants to deliver daily mail. NO ONE! So DeJoy will fuck it up just enough to interfere will the election, and then it will MIRACULOUSLY be revived after the election if Trump wins. If Trump loses, he'll leave it fucked up and drive a lot of holiday shipping to FedEx and UPS. Merry Christmas everybody! This is what Republicans call a WIN-WIN!
AmyStrange
(7,989 posts)Last edited Thu Aug 13, 2020, 01:35 AM - Edit history (1)
-
I must be too, because I agree.
It usually takes five days tops to get to her, but this going on nine days now is freakin ridiculous.
=======
bucolic_frolic
(42,675 posts)As soon as the public realizes their mail and packages aren't speedy, people will move to private carriers. End of revenue for the USPS. Crash by Nov 1, sell in January.
bucolic_frolic
(42,675 posts)Those machines must be worth money. Private business buys them, the USPS goes haywire and broke, so they break it up with a Trump executive order. ?
yellowdogintexas
(22,119 posts)I read somewhere that UPS and FedEx are not interested in picking up the USPS business. They need USPS for their far out deliveries.
JudyM
(29,122 posts)An absence of electronic sorting would kill this intended control.
world wide wally
(21,719 posts)"I am not a crook"
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)It's been going on for some time now.
randr
(12,408 posts)It is flat out in our face voter manipulation and the theft of an election. He no longer cares about possible criminal behavior. He will do anything to win knowing if he does nothing will happen to him.
He is obviously choosing chaos over democracy. All those who aid and abet him need the harshest punishment if we can pull this election off and remove him at last.
onetexan
(12,994 posts)cstanleytech
(26,080 posts)leighbythesea2
(1,200 posts)The day anything leaves the premises that is sorting equipment "shaped". People on the inside are talking, so its no secret.
Its an assault on democracy, health and safety.
My aunt worked there 30 years. She passed last year but would be so mad about this.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)side thinking that every US city is on fire with protests and looting. I O W,. Do something atrocious, don't let his people see it, our side protests, he tells them we are wild and crazy. Everything always circles back to him and Fox controlling info
The Blue Flower
(5,420 posts)From the soviet playbook for sure.
Nyleve
(3 posts)Like I said, have the states call in the National Guard to help the Post Office, with mail in ballots, and arrest those that interfer with the delivery of mail, and the election process.
ancianita
(35,812 posts)Sounds intuitive and non-lawyerly, which it is, yet it can also be proven true.
I hope our intel agencies have been surveilling this situation.
Illumination
(2,458 posts)about it!