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Third tier law professor John Eastman had an op-ed in Newsweek (Original Post) Dawson Leery Aug 2020 OP
We need ambulance chasers, too. The real problem is Newsweek gives them a voice. RainCaster Aug 2020 #1
This!👆 SheltieLover Aug 2020 #3
"Kamala Devi Harris was born on October 20, 1964, in Oakland, California. struggle4progress Aug 2020 #2
Donald Harris was born in Jamaica not Maryland Justice Aug 2020 #6
Dunno. But it doesn't matter. struggle4progress Aug 2020 #11
I agree. But someone is playing with Wiki page Justice Aug 2020 #16
Illinois Department of Economics pager says he's a naturalized US citizen struggle4progress Aug 2020 #20
He became naturalized after Kamela's birth. Justice Aug 2020 #21
Again, doesn't matter struggle4progress Aug 2020 #27
Newsweek's opinion editor Josh Hammer is a far right nutjob - this was entirely on purpose muriel_volestrangler Aug 2020 #28
Getting ripped to shreds in the comment section. n/t Crunchy Frog Aug 2020 #33
Incorrect davekriss Aug 2020 #14
No. Check it again. Was changed to Jamaica Justice Aug 2020 #17
You are correct davekriss Aug 2020 #19
It changed when I typed my response. I edited Justice Aug 2020 #22
After the Ted Cruz, John McCain and Obama non-issues, why do they even try this? brush Aug 2020 #4
not everyone can go to 'top tier' law schools RT Atlanta Aug 2020 #5
Agreed. Not about law school. Eastman failed Justice Aug 2020 #7
I agree, the problem is squarely on the professor himself. Claustrum Aug 2020 #8
Lots of great lawyers from 3rd and 4th tier schools. Justice Aug 2020 #18
That's a lot of my experience as well RT Atlanta Aug 2020 #26
+1. Yale also gave us Kavanaugh, Alito, Thomas, Dershowitz, et al dalton99a Aug 2020 #23
Some go to Liberty University law school. That would be 4th rate. madinmaryland Aug 2020 #35
His argument rests on the "jursidiction" claim. Happy Hoosier Aug 2020 #9
Interesting detail in that last sentence - thanks! nt crickets Aug 2020 #31
US v. Wong Kim Ark struggle4progress Aug 2020 #10
Thanks for posting that... it puts the lie to Eastman's argument. Happy Hoosier Aug 2020 #13
A lot of good lawyers have come out of lower tier law schools. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2020 #12
The ranking of his law school is beside the point. Dershowitz taught at Harvard ... StarfishSaver Aug 2020 #15
Do you know who disagrees with Dr. John Eastman VMA131Marine Aug 2020 #24
"I'm proud to be a hack without principles" struggle4progress Aug 2020 #29
well, that was a slightly different issue, and doesn't really contradict what he's saying here fishwax Aug 2020 #32
Cruz' situation is different but the principle is the same VMA131Marine Aug 2020 #34
he atgues that citizenship from birth applies in Harris 's case as well fishwax Aug 2020 #38
Yeah, you just restated my post you responded to. VMA131Marine Aug 2020 #40
no -- my post was affirming as factual what you were speculating as counterfactual fishwax Aug 2020 #41
Not to mention he ran & lost to her for (Atty Gen?). UTUSN Aug 2020 #25
Eastman is a far-right hack. Archae Aug 2020 #30
As a graduate of a "top 10" law school, I find your post ridiculously elitist. Progressive Law Aug 2020 #36
BTW, John Eastman is a graduate of the elite University of Chicago Law School. Progressive Law Aug 2020 #37
And Shithead seizes on it immediately. Crunchy Frog Aug 2020 #39

struggle4progress

(118,280 posts)
2. "Kamala Devi Harris was born on October 20, 1964, in Oakland, California.
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:31 AM
Aug 2020

Her mother, Shyamala Gopalan, was a breast cancer scientist who had emigrated from Tamil Nadu, India, in 1960 to pursue a doctorate in endocrinology at UC Berkeley. Her father, Donald J. Harris, is a Stanford University emeritus professor of economics, who emigrated from British Jamaica in 1961 for graduate study in economics at UC Berkeley" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris

"Shyamala conducted research in UC Berkeley's Department of Zoology and Cancer Research Lab. She worked as a breast cancer researcher at University of Illinois and University of Wisconsin. She worked for 16 years at Lady Davis Institute for Medical Research and McGill University Faculty of Medicine. Gopalan served as a peer reviewer for the National Institutes of Health and as a site visit team member for the Federal Advisory Committee. She also served on the President's Special Commission on Breast Cancer. She mentored dozens of students in her lab. For her last decade of research, Gopalan worked in the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shyamala_Gopalan

"Donald J. Harris ... was born in Waldorf, Maryland, as the son of Beryl Finnegan and Oscar Joseph Harris.He grew up in the Orange Hill area of St. Ann's Parish, near Brown's Town ... Harris received a Bachelor of Arts from the University of London in 1960. In 1963 he came to the United States to earn a PhD from University of California, Berkeley which he completed in 1966 ... Harris was an assistant professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign from 1966 to 1967 and at Northwestern University from 1967 to 1968. He moved to the University of Wisconsin–Madison as an associate professor in 1968. In 1972, he joined the faculty of Stanford University as a professor of economics." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_J._Harris

Justice

(7,185 posts)
6. Donald Harris was born in Jamaica not Maryland
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:40 AM
Aug 2020

Someone fiddled with Wiki page to change birth place to Maryland in second reference. Then I was changed back to Jamaica. What’s up?

Justice

(7,185 posts)
16. I agree. But someone is playing with Wiki page
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:57 AM
Aug 2020

It said Maryland and then Jamaica. Obviously if it was MD would moot entire Eastman piece.
Someone trying to make trouble.

Newsweek screwed up publishing Eastman’s piece because he is conflicted - lost GOP primary AG race when Harris won

muriel_volestrangler

(101,310 posts)
28. Newsweek's opinion editor Josh Hammer is a far right nutjob - this was entirely on purpose
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 01:36 PM
Aug 2020
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213840112

https://twitter.com/josh_hammer

counsel for First Liberty Institute, speaker Young America's Foundation and Federalist Society, alumnus Claremont Institute (where the op-ed author is a senior fellow) and American Compass.

That's why Hammer leapt in with this, denying this is birtherism - https://www.newsweek.com/editors-note-eastmans-newsweek-column-has-nothing-do-racist-birtherism-1524800 . He knew exactly what he was doing when he commissioned this.

davekriss

(4,616 posts)
14. Incorrect
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:54 AM
Aug 2020

It says he emigrated from near Brown’s Town, Jamaica. It’s says he was born in Maryland. There is a minor gap there, however, between when he was born in Maryland to when/how he ended up in Jamaica. I did not open the article, maybe the answer is in there.

brush

(53,771 posts)
4. After the Ted Cruz, John McCain and Obama non-issues, why do they even try this?
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:33 AM
Aug 2020

She was born in Oakland for God's sake. No one is going to pay any attention to some obscure, 19th century non-decision by SCOTUS way back when.

RT Atlanta

(2,517 posts)
5. not everyone can go to 'top tier' law schools
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:35 AM
Aug 2020

for a variety of reasons.

I'm surprised you're slamming law schools with such a broad brush and not focusing on the author and - perhaps - his own school admin and that school's knowledge of his perspective.

Bush Torture memo author John Yoo is a Yale law grad as a counter point to your position above.

Justice

(7,185 posts)
7. Agreed. Not about law school. Eastman failed
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:41 AM
Aug 2020

AG primary candidate. Kamela Harris won AG race. That’s the story.

Claustrum

(4,845 posts)
8. I agree, the problem is squarely on the professor himself.
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:45 AM
Aug 2020

Though, third and fourth tier law schools are problematic too. Just look at their graduation stats, a lot of them has less than 10-20% chance of actually becoming a lawyer and still charge 200+k for the law degree.

Justice

(7,185 posts)
18. Lots of great lawyers from 3rd and 4th tier schools.
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 12:01 PM
Aug 2020

Lots of sucky, snobby ones from 1st and 2nd tier schools.

Happy Hoosier

(7,295 posts)
9. His argument rests on the "jursidiction" claim.
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:48 AM
Aug 2020

The problem for him is that regardless of what he thinks the correct interpretation of that phrase is, she WAS in fact granted citizenship at birth, and she clearly owes no allegiance to either Jamaica or India, which was the whole point of the natural-born citizenship requirements.

But he did not graduate from a "third tier" school. He graduated from the University of Chicago Law School.

But he's right that this is all irrelevant legalistic bullshit.

Keep in mind that he LOST the Republican primary for California AG in the year Kamala Harris WON the general election for that office, so no doubt some sour grapes involved.

struggle4progress

(118,280 posts)
10. US v. Wong Kim Ark
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:50 AM
Aug 2020

Mr. Justice GRAY ... delivered the opinion of the court ...

The question presented by the record is whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who at the time of his birth are subjects of the emperor of China, but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution: 'All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside' ...

The constitution of the United States, as originally adopted, uses the words 'citizen of the United States' and 'natural-born citizen of the United States' ... The fourteenth article of amendment, besides declaring that 'all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside,' also declares that 'no state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws' ...

The constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words ... In this, as in other respects, it must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the constitution ...

The fundamental principle of the common law with regard to English nationality was birth within the allegiance—also called 'ligealty,' 'obedience,' 'faith,' or 'power'—of the king. The principle embraced all persons born within the king's allegiance, and subject to his protection. Such allegiance and protection were mutual, — as expressed in the maxim, 'Protectio trahit subjectionem, et subjectio protectionem,' — and were not restricted to natural-born subjects and naturalized subjects, or to those who had taken an oath of allegiance; but were predicable of aliens in amity, so long as they were within the kingdom. Children, born in England, of such aliens, were therefore natural-born subjects. But the children, born within the realm, of foreign ambassadors, or the children of alien enemies, born during and within their hostile occupation of part of the king's dominions, were not natural-born subjects, because not born within the allegiance, the obedience, or the power, or, as would be said at this day, within the jurisdiction, of the king ...

It thus clearly appears that by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.

... The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established ...

That all children, born within the dominion of the United States, of foreign parents holding no diplomatic office, became citizens at the time of their birth, does not appear to have been contested or doubted until more than 50 years after the adoption of the constitution ...

There is, therefore, little ground for the theory that at the time of the adoption of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution of the United States there was any settled and definite rule of international law generally recognized by civilized nations, inconsistent with the ancient rule of citizenship by birth within the dominion ...

The real object of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution, in qualifying the words 'all persons born in the United States' by the addition 'and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,' would appear to have been to exclude, by the fewest and fittest words (besides children of members of the Indian tribes, standing in a peculiar relation to the national government, unknown to the common law), the two classes of cases,—children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation, and children of diplomatic representatives of a foreign state ...

The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistibly lead us to these conclusions: The fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes ...

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/169/649



Happy Hoosier

(7,295 posts)
13. Thanks for posting that... it puts the lie to Eastman's argument.
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:54 AM
Aug 2020

He twisted the "jurisdiction" definition well beyond what the opinion declares. Neither of Kamala's parents were either hostile aliens under occupation OR diplomatic representatives of a foreign sate.

Eastman is a liar.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,181 posts)
12. A lot of good lawyers have come out of lower tier law schools.
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 11:54 AM
Aug 2020

Not everyone has the opportunity to go to an Ivy League school, nor does having an Ivy League or top tier law degree necessarily make someone a good lawyer.

VMA131Marine

(4,138 posts)
24. Do you know who disagrees with Dr. John Eastman
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 12:23 PM
Aug 2020

Of course, it’s Dr John Eastman in 2016 arguing why Ted Cruz is eligible to be POTUS:

“ The requirement in Article II that one be a “natural-born citizen” in order to be eligible for the presidency simply means that one be a citizen from birth, rather than subsequently becoming a citizen by later naturalization.”



https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/01/ted-cruz-natural-born-citizenship-eligibility-president/amp/

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
32. well, that was a slightly different issue, and doesn't really contradict what he's saying here
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 02:40 PM
Aug 2020

Last edited Fri Aug 14, 2020, 01:36 AM - Edit history (1)

The issue with Cruz was that he wasn't born on American soil. But this was actually a non-issue because he was still a natural born citizen based on blood, which is what Eastman is arguing in the article from 2016.

The non-issue with Harris is that she was born in Oakland but to non-citizens. It's a non issue, because she was born on U.S. soil and her parents weren't invaders, or diplomats, or alien enemies. (Those are the exceptions to Jus Soli citizenship that the Supreme Court offered in U.S. vs. Wong Kim Ark.) But Eastman is trying to claim that in addition to those exceptions the court also excluded anyone whose parents weren't permanently living in the country. The problem is, the court didn't actually say that. WRT Harris, Eastman is wrong. But that won't stop the trump humpers from trumpeting the argument long and loud, I'm sure. There will be investigations into the residency status of both of her parents.

VMA131Marine

(4,138 posts)
34. Cruz' situation is different but the principle is the same
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 06:13 PM
Aug 2020

In the Cruz case, Eastman argues that anyone who is a citizen from birth is a natural born citizen. Both Cruz and Kamala Harris meet that test so the rest of his argument is entirely superfluous unless he wants to argue that Harris is not a citizen at all.

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
38. he atgues that citizenship from birth applies in Harris 's case as well
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 07:58 PM
Aug 2020

He is, instead, arguing that Harris was not a citizen from birth unless her parents were permanent residents. It's not a good argument, but it isn't inconsistent with his line on cruz.

If it were a simple inconsistency or contradiction that would be one thing, but it's actually crazier than that: he's arguing she may not even be eligible to be a senator because she may not have had cotizenship from birth and may never have actually acquired it

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
41. no -- my post was affirming as factual what you were speculating as counterfactual
Fri Aug 14, 2020, 01:49 PM
Aug 2020

Though I certainly could have been more clear about it.

Your post said:

Both Cruz and Kamala Harris meet that test so the rest of his argument is entirely superfluous unless he wants to argue that Harris is not a citizen at all.


My post said: his argument is, in fact, that Harris may not be a citizen at all.

____________________

This is significant because it makes his argument rather more sinister than simple hypocrisy or self contradiction. It serves instead, to provide the nutjobs fodder for the same the sort of endless racist investigations into her parents that the birther conspiracy did for Obama.

His argument here assumes (as you state, and as he argued more explicitly in the Cruz article) that to be a citizen at birth makes you a natural born citizen.

However, he also claims that to be a citizen at birth by virtue of being born in the United States, one must have a parent who is either a citizen or a permanent resident.

NOTE: He offers no evidence to support this claim--certainly not from case law--and it stands in contradiction to pretty much every expert's reading (and the plain English reading) of the Wong Kim Ark case.

He continues: Since we don't know whether her parents were permanent residents (as opposed to having visitor status or student visas), then we don't know for sure if she was a citizen at birth. (Or, even, if she ever became a citizen).

If one buys his stupid claim, then it gives cause to endlessly investigate and build conspiracy theories around the status of her parents.

 

Progressive Law

(617 posts)
36. As a graduate of a "top 10" law school, I find your post ridiculously elitist.
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 06:47 PM
Aug 2020

I have regularly witnessed graduates of lower ranked law schools win cases against lawyers from higher ranked schools.

 

Progressive Law

(617 posts)
37. BTW, John Eastman is a graduate of the elite University of Chicago Law School.
Thu Aug 13, 2020, 06:52 PM
Aug 2020

How can you explain such a prestigous school producing such a questionable graduate? Will you be advocating for the shut down of that law school now?

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