I just called the Secret Service about the Dear Mr. Obama sign in my neighborhood.

[SalviaBlue]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021366133

The agent had not heard of Psalm 109.8 before but took the info and said he would look into it.



I couldn't stop thinking about it and had to do something.

[DonViejo]

1. I assume you are referring to the Secret Service

by calling them the SS. Please use the appropriate lettering, USSS. Thanks!

[SalviaBlue]

2. Thank you. I changed it to Secret Service.

[nanabugg]

3. If you are familiar with the entire Psalm, you know that it appears to be more in line with a poor

man crying out for God's help against people like the Republicans. Especially verse 16:

"Because he did not remember to show mercy. But persecuted the poor and needy man."

[SalviaBlue]

5. I am not familiar with the entire Psalm. I heard the Rachel Maddow/Frank Schaeffer's discussion and

I think they are right about this issue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x403386

MADDOW: "'Let his days be few and let another take his office. Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.' This is such strong language in secular terms about President Obama. Can you tell me if this means something less threatening to people hearing this in a Biblical context?"

SCHAEFFER: "No, actually it means something more threatening. ...snip..... Really, this is trawling for assassins. And this is serious business.

[freshwest]

19. Trawling for assassins... I agree fully with Schaeffer. Serious, past time to call them on it:

Assassination threats against Barack Obama

Barack Obama,the 44th President of the United States, has been the target of several assassination threats and alleged plots since he first became a presidential candidate in 2007. Secret Service protection for Obama began after the Senator received a death threat in 2007, when Obama was still serving as then the junior U.S. Senator of Illinois and running for president. This marked the first time a candidate received such protection before being nominated.[1] Security was increased early for Barack Obama due to fears of possible assassination attempts by white supremacist or other racist groups or individuals against the first African American major party presidential candidate.[2][3][4]

Some of the threats have been extended to members of Obama's family, including First Lady Michelle Obama.[5][6][7][8] Obama and his officials have generally declined to discuss death threats against him since entering the presidential race.[1][5] Some commentators have suggested the unusually high amount of death threats surrounding Obama are at least partially tied to the use of racist imagery and words used by some of Obama's critics to describe the president.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_threats_against_Barack_Obama

Barack Obama faces 30 death threats a day, stretching US Secret Service

Since Mr Obama took office, the rate of threats against the president has increased 400 per cent from the 3,000 a year or so under President George W. Bush, according to Ronald Kessler, author of In the President's Secret Service.

Some threats to Mr Obama, whose Secret Service codename is Renegade, have been publicised, including an alleged plot by white supremacists in Tennessee late last year to rob a gun store, shoot 88 black people, decapitate another 14 and then assassinate the first black president in American history.

Most however, are kept under wraps because the Secret Service fears that revealing details of them would only increase the number of copycat attempts. Although most threats are not credible, each one has to be investigated meticulously.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/5967942/Barack-Obama-faces-30-death-threats-a-day-stretching-US-Secret-Service.html

That doesn't even count the one by Ted Nugent at a concert and Glenn Beck in slow, rambling monologue on Fox News where he recalls a dream in close detail visualizing his desire to shoot Obama in the head. And the editor of an Atlanta newspaper calling for Obama to be 'taken out.' There have been ugly things said about GOP presidents, but nothing compares to the media encouragement presented to millions of people daily that has been directed against this POTUS.

[trailmonkee]

28. thanks

[Darth_Kitten]

62. That family sees itself as poor and needy perhaps?

Bring on the largesse!

[elleng]

4. Good. Thanks.

[luvspeas]

6. if it looks like a duck, it's probably a duck...

trust your instincts and err on the side of caution. leave it to the USSS to figure out. thank you because I love my president and I am hoping to see him speak sometime long after his service is over because the lines are too damn long to see him now!!!

[SalviaBlue]

8. Thats what I though too: err on the side of caution.

Its been bugging me all week and I thought: what the hell, maybe they think its as bad as I do.

[Jbradshaw120]

7. To be fair

Psalm 109.8 in its entirety is "Let his days be few; and let another take his office". Psalms 109.8 does not mention his children or his wife. That is the next verse.

[SalviaBlue]

9. The next line is: Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.

How stupid do they think we are?

[Jbradshaw120]

20. Fair enough

I only took the exact verse cited, but I suppose one could extrapolate farther if one wishes to. If one reads the entire Psalm 109 it is about people who do not help the poor and needy. Interesting choice of verse. Is best I can say.

[SalviaBlue]

10. Frank Schaeffer said

"No, actually it means something more threatening. ...snip..... Really, this is trawling for assassins. And this is serious business. "

[Zoeisright]

51. And that isn't enough for you?

Christ on a stick.

[vanlassie]

11. To be fair, is this the way Christians use the bible?

Seriously? Just pull out a sentence that works and forget the context or the rest of the verse?

[SalviaBlue]

12. Plausible deniability??

[LeftyMom]

14. That's how evangelicals use it.

Just to use one example: Their entire theology about the abortion issue comes from one line where God is telling a prophet how he's so special to him that he formed him specially in the womb and knew his fate, and ignoring the other verses about non-prophet pregnancy and pregnancy loss.

[FiveGoodMen]

15. That is absolutely the way they use it.

That's what church sermons and Sunday school classes tell them to do.

That's why the verses are numbered in the first place.

An awful lot of us who've read the whole thing have decided it's nonsense.

(Seriously, ask a bunch of atheists what made them give up Christianity -- an awful lot will say "I read the Bible from cover to cover&quot

[DonViejo]

21. Yes.

Maddening isn't it?

[jonesgirl]

25. Kinda sounds what they do to our Constitution.

[eShirl]

37. It's not new, nor restricted to Christians.

[jmowreader]

69. Yes it is

But only the verses they like.

The verse telling them not to pray in public like the pharisees do gets ignored. And the classic line "for he who has much, much more will be expected" (endorsing the concept of the progressive income tax) just plain doesn't exist.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

13. They can use it to justify hate too.

A lot of Christians don't know their Bible very well.They ignore the hateful parts. They get mad when I point this out.

Their response: CRICKETS

[SalviaBlue]

16. A friend once told me in reference to our invasion of Iraq that Jesus said: "An eye for an eye

a tooth for a tooth." (as if they were responsible for 911)

When I pointed out to her that he actually said:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

Her response: CRICKETS

[jonesgirl]

26. I do turn my other cheek...my ass cheeks as I'm turning my back!

[Flatpicker]

31. But

I thought that the eye for an eye comment was supposed to mean "Let the punishment fit the crime", not about revenge.

This was at a time where the punishment for offenses was disproportionately severe.

Unless I misunderstood the line?

[magical thyme]

70. Isn't the original "eye for eye" comment is from the Old Testament? nt

[Liberalynn]

35. A friend of mine in college who was studying to be a priest had two fundies start to debate him.

They didn't get very far. He said to them notice how you are always quoting the "Old Testament and never the New Testament" "You totally ignore the words of Jesus, yet you call yourselves Christian."

Just as you said, "Crickets" then they walked away.

I was so proud of him that day.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

48. Jesus said "I come not in peace but with a sword... I come (to set families apart).

And a lot more hateful stuff.
It's all in the NT.
As in this example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=102765

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=102770

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=103332

[cordelia]

60. This shit again?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

82. You got a

problem with quoting THEIR bible to THEM?

They get mad when they see the "Jesus was not a good guy" scriptures. Like it's news to them and I made it up.

[vanlassie]

17. Let's hope the Secret Service visits Anlin and has a little chat with them.

Fascist arrogant assholes.

[SalviaBlue]

18. They fit the Fascist description perfectly.

Looking at their property, you might think they are a church; the cross out front is soooo big.
They have flags of all the military forces flanking the American flag.
They have political slogans on signs all around the property.
Yet they are a corporation.

[vanlassie]

22. A REPUBLICAN Corporation.

Full out.

[shoreline]

23. I think it's interesting that...

...Anlin president Tom Vidmar is no fan of Democrats or President Obama and called President Obama a "narcissistic Marxist because everything he does is for himself and he doesn't like this country. He degrades our own nation." The company still is willing however, to offer tax credits from the government in order to sell their product (http://www.anlin.com/energy-tax-credit.aspx). It's also interesting to note that the City of Clovis, CA arranged for Anlin to purchase the 6 acres their factory was built on for the princely sum of one dollar (http://www.ci.clovis.ca.us/SiteCollectionDocuments/CCDA/BusinessRetentionandAttractionProgram.pdf). Let's hear again how government is evil and "we built that"...

[SalviaBlue]

24. I did not know about the $1.00 purchase price.

I know that they get tax credit subsidies.

They are such hipocrites.

[freshwest]

33. Thanks for the research, this needs to be publicized as they are not honest!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

27. Wishing people dead

is hateful and tasteless, and doing so via a Bible verse makes it even more so, IMO.

A threat? I don't see it as such, but to each his own.

[SalviaBlue]

29. Maybe not. But the fact that Frank Schaeffer thinks its a threat

Is good enough for me.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

30. Like I said, to each his own

But I think we're treading on dangerous territory when we turn people in to federal agents because we don't like what they think.

[SalviaBlue]

32. You know, I actually think it is more IMPOLITE than illegal.

But I dispise Anlin's ability to propagandize so much that I am chosing to use whatever I have at my disposal to make them uncomfortable. They have no morals or civil responsibility.

I am not convinced that that what they are doing is not a "call for the assassins" however.

Hence, my call.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

34. Whatever floats your boat n/t

[treestar]

65. It's the Secret Service's job to find threats if there are any

This could be a hint there is one - if it does not pan out, better safe than sorry. Wishing someone dead is certainly the first step in starting to plan it.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

71. Sorry, but I call bullshit

How many people wished Bush & Cheney dead when they were in office? Some right here on this site.

Were those all "first steps" in planning an assassination?

[treestar]

72. Nobody wished Bush or Cheney dead on this site

Some may have wished Cheney's heart would take him out, but that's not an assassination plot, since Cheney does have a bad heart. I don't recall seeing any specific wish, but more of an "I'll dance on his grave" type of post, which some on DU disapprove too.

What of the girl who put on her FB page that someone ought to assassinate Obama? She's not saying she's going to do it, but is saying she approves someone else doing it. You really think the Secret Service should ignore that and this? If you approve of a crime, aren't you more likely to support it in some way?

And if they check it out and there's nothing, fine. I can't feel sorry for people who would put up a public sign with such a vile sentiment - and never in the news did we see people doing that to Bush or quoting that verse in reference to Bush.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

75. Wishing someone's heart would stop isnt' wishing them dead?

"Some may have wished Cheney's heart would take him out, but that's not an assassination plot, since Cheney does have a bad heart."

And the Bible verse wasn't an assassination plot, either.

As for the girl on Facebook, specifically exhorting someone to assassinate the President is quite different than saying you wish the President were dead.

If you can't see the difference between the two, than we'll just agree to disagree. I'm just surprised at how many people on a Democratic web site are in favor of utilizing federal agents to stifle speech they don't like.

People are allow to hate the President, they're allowed to say they hate the President, and they're allowed to say they wish he were dead, so long as they aren't threatening to kill him. And they should be allowed to say all of that without fear of their government knocking on their door, telling them that they had better be careful what they say.

[Skip Intro]

36. You want the government to outlaw all Bible verses, or just certain ones?

It sounds like you are upset about the anti-Obama displays in general rather than really being overwhelmed by fear for our leader.

Is Obama going to be at that place of business anytime soon? Or do you suspect one of their employees will seek him out? Or do you just want the anti-Obama sentiment to be censored, removed from view? Because they disagree with you?

That's what it seems like I'm seeing here, and I am compelled to post against that.

We have a right to free speech and expression. If no law was broken, there is zero reason to hassle people because they disagree with you. They have as much right to express themselves as you and I do. Especially when it comes to politics.

And that's why I had to say something, because that right is bigger than any politician or party.




There is some scary reading on DU these days...

[vanlassie]

39. If this was simply a place that likes to put up nutty signs

MAYBE I could agree. But this is a slippery slope in my opinion, in which "dog whistle" language is being used in a community of big time tea party activists AND its the home of Free Republic. As I quoted in another post, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing ..."

I think it is appropriate when dealing with zealots, to TAKE THEM FUCKING SERIOUSLY. Let the appropriate agency determine how serious the threat is.

The contempt for President Obama is obvious.

[Skip Intro]

40. They're allowed to have comtempt for Obama or Romney or Santa Claus.

What kind of weird dimension have I fallen into where Democrats want to censor opposition political speech?

Would you like to see that Bible phrase made illegal to display?

[vanlassie]

42. Would a picture of President Obama hanging from a noose be OK with you as well?

Because this is the clear implication of the Psalm being used as "political speech.". Just in a very cutesy way that allows for plausible denialibility.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

44. OK as in would I like it? No

OK as in it's free speech and should be permitted? Yes.

No one should be permitted to threaten the President without consequence. But everyone should have the right to say they hate him, they hope terrible things happen to him, and they hope his wife and children are left orphans.

Wishing awful things on someone is not a threat.

[SalviaBlue]

41. These people are Propagandists for the crazies on the far right.

This is a dog whistle phrase. They are calling out the assassins as Frank Schaeffer states.

Maybe its within their 1st Amendment rights to do this but I want them to defend themselves. I will not quietly acquiesce. They are evil and I want them to know that not everyone that drives by is a dumb ass.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

43. I couldn't agree more

It's disturbing how eager people are to stifle speech they don't agree with. A threat is one thing, but this is clearly not a threat - it's hateful, but people have the right to be hateful.

I'm concerned with the notion that it's perfectly OK to call in federal agents "and give these people a talking to". Talk about a chilling effect on free speech.

[Skip Intro]

45. No doubt and it was meant to intimidate, poster admits.

I mean, wtf?

[treestar]

64. It's clearly meant, in context, to wish the president dead

It is not "outlawed." It is simply that whoever put up that sign obviously would like something terrible to happen to the President. The Secret Service looks into it. They don't go to jail - unless some evidence of a real conspiracy is found.

The reason to call the Secret Service is that maybe the people are tipping their hand on an assassination plot. Crazy as that may be, the president's body guard will check out all threats.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

66. Yeah, because someone that is planning

to kill the President is going to have signs printed about it.

It's hateful to wish someone dead, but it's not a threat. This was an attempt by the OP to intimidate people and silence speech that she finds offensive.

***edited for spelling

[treestar]

68. Maybe

It's certainly a big hint they might. Do you really believe the Secret Service views it that way?

One thing they are trying to do with that sign is to make it clear they support his assassination and that makes it just a little more OK in the mind of the nut who would actually do it. It is to make the idea not unthinkable - if it seems like there is enough of a political groundswell for it, it's more likely to happen.

[mykpart]

38. We need to respond with

verse 29 from the same psalm: "Let my accusers be clothed with shame. And let them cover themselves with their own disgrace as with a mantle."

[Skip Intro]

47. Do you think what you did was right? I think it was fucked up.

Because you admitted not doing it out of concern for a life, but more to teach these horrible
people who dare disagree with you a lesson about speaking against Obama, or expressing a belief in God, or disagreeing with you on the role of the government. Those were the pics you posted. And you've admitted you don't believe there was any threat implied, but wanted to make them feel uncomfortable. Your words. You wanted to intimidate them, because they had expressed political views opposite of yours. Fucked up.

And you tie up federal investigators to carry out this small-minded vendetta of yours.

Let me ask you, how plausible is it, do you think, that a DUer who believes our rights and freedoms are far more important than any politician or party, and are worth defending, as many have done with their lives, how plausible do you think it is such a DUer would gather screen-grabs of your admissions and intents and pass those along to the SS and the target of your bs assault? Do you think that is likely? Wouldn't it be ironic if it were true, if your sneaky little act came back to bite you in the ass?

[SalviaBlue]

50. Way to misrepresent what I did.

You think it was fucked up? Based on the fact that you have decided that I did not have "concern for a life"?

Pick and choose much?

In my first response I post Frank Schaeffer's opinion as being my guide:

"No, actually it means something more threatening. ...snip..... Really, this is trawling for assassins. And this is serious business. "

Skip Into, yes, I get that Anlin has the right to free speech, but to change that to that I only want to teach them not to "dare to disagree" with me is wrong. What you said was "fucked up."

As to your last paragraph, REALLY????? You are threatening me because I called the Secret Service, REALLY?

OK, bite me, Skip Intro.

[Skip Intro]

53. You said you thought it was more impolite. You stated more than once

that you did it to make them feel uncomfortable or to defend their rights. You said those things. This wasn't about a fear for the prez. That couldn't have been more obvious a twisted excuse for you to try to shut these people up.

Yeah, it was fucked up.

Last paragraph wasn't a threat. Just a thought exercise. But really, you've all but admitted making a report in an effort to use federal investigators to harass people for basically expressing views with which you disagree.

Fucked up.

[SalviaBlue]

56. I ACKNOWLEDGED that my position was not the position that everyone held.

I ACKNOWLEDGED that nothing would probably happen. I STATED (repeatedly) that that Rachel Maddow's conversation with Frank Schaeffer was my guide. Frank Schaeffer said this was SERIOUS. Hence, my phone call.

I resent your comments (especially your "thought exercise&quot .

Peace

[Skip Intro]

57. I resent your attempt to intimidate people who

express political views you don't like.

later.

[HangOnKids]

61. WAAAAHHHHHH

WAAAAHHHHHHHH. Had enough whine today Skip?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

63. So you think it's OK

to use the Secret Service to initimidate and silence people that say things you don't like?

[HangOnKids]

73. Thanks Skip!

Oh wait it isn't Skip....LOL!!!! Hey sport this wasn't people saying things that others dislike, it was a threat against president Obama. Please, your concern over the first amendment is real cute but it isn't the point here and you know that . Right? See ya!!!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

76. So if I say I wish that someone would die

That's a threat?

[HangOnKids]

77. Sorry, This is DU not GOTCHA.

I'm sure you can find someone else to bait.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

78. Not bait

Just wondering if you're willing to stand up to your own assertion.

Apparently not.

[HangOnKids]

79. Keep Wondering

[SickOfTheOnePct]

80. Nah, I don't have to wonder

Your refusal to answer is proof that you realize your own statement is ludicrous.

[HangOnKids]

81. Please keep telling yourself that

it works when you are AFRAID. LOL! LOL! LOL! My friends and I will laugh. LOL!LOL!LOL! Laugh I tell you. Like really crack up. It is just so FUNNY! Keep trying dude.

[treestar]

67. How do you know the DUer would not do the same thing regarding President Bush?

It is a vile thing for people to quote that verse. And if they wish someone dead, they could be planning it. No reason not to look into it. We would expect that if it were one of us. We'd let the cops tell oh gee, that's their freedom of speech, as long as they don't actually kill you, we're not going to look into it?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

49. Dog whistle hate speech.

I think it was reportable.

Some people say that the negative stuff you put out will return to you three times as strong.
And the same with positive stuff.

As in karma.

[SalviaBlue]

54. Yea, I wish they would keep putting out the positive stuff

like how much they love Bush, or maybe Mitt. But no... the only love they show is for Reagan.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

58. Consumed by hate, anger and fear of the different and the unknown.

Sad.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

59. You do know hate speech is not illegal, right? n/t

[Posteritatis]

52. Ps. 109:8 without context basically means "I want whoever I'm talking about to die."

So yeah, in this day and age I think that's worth a mention to the authorities.

[vanlassie]

55. Let the Secret Service decide if it fits their parameters

SalviaBlue gets free speech too.

[HangOnKids]

74. Indeed! n/t