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Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:05 PM

Democrats and the death penalty. I'm probably in the minority here, but I just can't stomach

that people like Dale Sigler can sit outside now in an open field smiling at how beautiful the day is and that he deserves to enjoy it.

Anybody else watch the Netflix special and get incensed? I don't think Netflix should have given that monster even a minute of voice. That fucking "man of God" instead of just shutting up and thanking his lucky stars is repugnant enough to blame his murder victim of a crime... when that victim can't defend himself.

I know, I know.... the death penalty is disproportionately applied according to race and ethniciity... I get that... but then I don't consider that an argument against the penalty, itself, but against its application. FIX THAT. This was a cut and dried case. Sigler should have been executed 30 years ago.


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Reply Democrats and the death penalty. I'm probably in the minority here, but I just can't stomach (Original post)
Goodheart Aug 31 OP
Zeus69 Aug 31 #1
Freddie Aug 31 #2
RhodeIslandOne Aug 31 #3
Mariana Aug 31 #24
JonLP24 Aug 31 #4
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 31 #5
safeinOhio Aug 31 #6
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 31 #7
Goodheart Aug 31 #11
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 31 #16
Goodheart Aug 31 #23
Sunsky Aug 31 #30
Bettie Aug 31 #8
Disaffected Aug 31 #25
Act_of_Reparation Aug 31 #9
Nevilledog Aug 31 #10
Goodheart Aug 31 #12
Act_of_Reparation Aug 31 #17
Mariana Aug 31 #13
unblock Aug 31 #14
marie999 Aug 31 #15
DFW Aug 31 #18
LeftInTX Aug 31 #19
maxsolomon Aug 31 #20
Silent3 Aug 31 #21
edhopper Aug 31 #22
Disaffected Aug 31 #26
Tommy_Carcetti Aug 31 #27
obamanut2012 Aug 31 #28
Goodheart Aug 31 #29
keithbvadu2 Aug 31 #31
electric_blue68 Aug 31 #32
Poiuyt Aug 31 #33
Flaleftist Aug 31 #34

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:14 PM

1. Agree

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:14 PM

2. Here's where I lose my liberal cred

But I agree there are cases where itís the only right thing to do. If there is not one shred of doubt about guilt. Couple years ago in my town, a 9 year old girl was raped and beaten to death by a neighbor in her apartment complex. There was no doubt who did it - the guy was found with her blood all over his clothes. Iím pretty sure he got life with no possibility of parole (PA hardly ever sentences to death) but sorry, that guy doesnít deserve to breathe.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:16 PM

3. If he was on death row, he never should have been released

 

I don't know the whole story, but releasing someone just because there's no longer a death penalty is idiotic.

I'm not opposed to the death penalty for the likes of Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, etc. though.

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Response to RhodeIslandOne (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 02:19 PM

24. That's because of a stupidity in the Texas laws.

Until quite recently, there was no such sentence as life without parole in Texas.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:17 PM

4. I don't trust the government to fix that

They haven't solved their other racial disparities much less the death penalty.

I would blame Netflix for giving him a platform.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:20 PM

5. The death penalty is part of a carceral system that cannot be reformed.

Abolish the death penalty.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:20 PM

6. I have never been sent to jail, but

I use to visit the local jail at all hours. My ex use to work there once in while. I rather get it over and be put to death than spend the rest of my life there. I think long term jail would be worse than death.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:21 PM

7. Did you know about Dale Sigler before you saw the special?

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:31 PM

11. No, I did not.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:45 PM

16. So you went from ignorance of a person and situation to being radicalized by a TV show into

believing the government should kill this man?

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 01:21 PM

23. Yes.

The situation was made quite clear.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 03:13 PM

30. Lol

Sums it all up, doesn't it?
It seems as if production has accomplished its goal.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:21 PM

8. I think life without the possibility of parole is

sufficient for the worst offenders.

Others may be able to be released into society once they have served their sentence.

The death penalty doesn't bring anyone back to life, it doesn't change reality, it simply adds more death to the equation.

Also, you can't take an execution back. There are plenty of people whose cases were "cut and dried" and who were found to be innocent years later. I'm certain innocent people have been executed.

One innocent person executed it too much.

That is my opinion.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #8)


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:24 PM

9. What you can or cannot stomach is immaterial.

Justice isn't about providing you the most emotionally satisfying outcome.

Even if the system could be "fixed" (and it can't), it wouldn't make the death penalty any more moral/ethical than it is right now.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #9)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:27 PM

10. +100000000

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #9)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:32 PM

12. Who says it's not ethical? Just because YOU'RE emotionally unhappy with the outcome?

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:48 PM

17. Nobody does.

Not a single soul. Throughout the history of mankind, no philosopher has ever wrestled with retributive justice. Every other nation of our class has prohibited the death penalty because their fee fees couldn't handle it.

Congratulations, you've won the argument.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:34 PM

13. "FIX THAT."

How about we abolish the death penalty until all of the bias and unfairness in the criminal justice system has been fixed. Is that satisfactory?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:37 PM

14. Call me a crazy liberal, but I don't trust the government to kill its subjects responsibly.

The death penalty is not about what the vilest, most blatantly obviously guilty person "deserves".

They can deserve death or the worst torture one could conceive, fine.


It's still a recipe for bad governance to give the state the right to kill its subjects.

There just no way around race, money, politics, connections, bigotry, or just plain errors being material factors in how a death penalty gets enforced in practice, or even which crimes are subject to death penalty.

It's a terrible idea, and there's really zero upside or making everyone in the country complicit in another killing when life imprisonment is a perfectly reasonable alternative.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:38 PM

15. I am against the death penalty

I read too many accounts of people getting out of prison after 30 years because they were innocent. Life without parole.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 12:52 PM

18. My main objection is that one executed innocent person is one too many

The USA has executed plenty of people who were convicted of capital crimes on either questionable evidence, or downright fraudulent evidence. Convenience to the prosecutor, satisfying the thirst for revenge on the part of the family who lost a loved one, the mere fact that no one had been sentenced to death recently, and "it was about time,"--ALL of the above have arguably been cause for executing people in our country.

Voltaire said in 1749 (and was paraphrased by both Ben Franklin and William Blackstone): ítis much more Prudence to acquit two Persons, thoí actually guilty, than to pass Sentence of Condemnation on one that is virtuous and innocent. US "justice" has proved all too bloodthirsty to allow an objective discussion on the "merits" of the death penalty. As long as there is even the remotest chance that an innocent might be wrongly executed there must be no executions. The Ox-Bow Incident was not based purely on fiction, even if it was fiction itself.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 01:02 PM

19. What show is this?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 01:10 PM

20. I can see an argument that the Death Penalty is more merciful than a life in prison.

But ultimately, the ethically consistent stance is no death penalty - for anyone.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 01:10 PM

21. My objection to the death penalty isn't about people deserving to live

It's that I don't want the government to have the power of execution, even if in many cases my non-bleeding heart would dearly like to see some people dead.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 01:13 PM

22. It can't be "FIXED"

until society is fixed. And society will not be fixed.
Unless you can accept innocent people being put to death, then you shouldn't be for the death penalty'
Because that is a certainty.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 02:32 PM

26. IIRC, the Innocence Project

estimated a few years ago that about 25% of inmates on death row were innocent or wrongly convicted. The number of lifers, or worse yet those executed, who have been later exonerated by the advent of DNA evidence is distressingly high.

In Canada here, I can recall five cases of wrongful conviction for murder. None of these individuals would have survived if Canada had had the death penalty at the time. Even today, the justice system is far from failsafe.

To contend that a perp should be executed when there is "no doubt" vs "beyond reasonable doubt" is highly problematic given many factors that may wrongly lead to such a conclusion.

The only thing that should be given the death penalty is the death penalty.

BTW, who could ever forget Dubya Bush stating when asked about the death penalty that he "was 100% sure everyone on death row in Texas was guilty as charged".

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 02:37 PM

27. I literally had no idea who this man was until now.

Not that I think he necessarily deserves a Netflix special, and perhaps he deserves to be in prison still, or maybe not (again, I have no context about his situation at all other than just having read a brief Wiki on him), but the Death Penalty is always wrong and immoral, no exceptions whatsoever.

So no, I don't agree at all with your premise. Sorry.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 02:49 PM

28. Ah, the siren's song of believing murder should begat murder

What a value set to boast about.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #28)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 03:05 PM

29. You think you can make a valid argument by changing the definition of a word?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 09:53 PM

31. I'm ok with the death penalty but not insistent.

I'm ok with the death penalty but not insistent.

Life without parole is just as good.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 11:19 PM

32. I'm against the death penalty and...

Against it
Not wanting The State to put people death in general.
Because of the mistake of executing an innocent person.
The inordinate amount of black and brown people on death row.

Now here's the "and" part for me.

While I'm against it it doesn't mean that emotionally (at least for me) there are times when I want a really depraved malevolent person that we absolutely know did some heinous act(s) to fry, or to be beaten to a pulp. That's when it really tries my belief. But I stick to them.

I've never been a total pacifist.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 11:35 PM

33. I'm glad that my state doesn't have the death penalty

I feel like we're taking the high road.

That said, the earth would be better if certain people were removed.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Aug 31, 2020, 11:47 PM

34. "FIX THAT" How?

It has been well documented that innocent people have been convicted and sentenced to death. What do you suggest as a solution to make sure only the Dale Siglers get the death penalty and not any innocents?

I may also be in the minority that some people deserve execution. The problem is I don't see any way to be 100% sure the convicted are really guilty. So I can not support that as punishment.

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