This seems really not good to me.

[renie408]

Can you guys make it seem a little less not good?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/hillary-clinton-aide-tells-reporter-to-fuck-off


On Sunday morning, BuzzFeed correspondent Michael Hastings emailed Philippe Reines, Hillary Clinton's longtime aide and personal spokesman at the State Department, asking a series of pointed questions about State's handling of the Benghazi fiasco, and Reines' over-the-top attack on CNN. The emails quickly got personal, with Reines calling Hastings an "unmitigated asshole" before an exchange of harsh words on both sides.
The email chain concluded with Reines writing that Hastings should "Fuck Off" and "Have a nice life."
The full exchange (with one typo fixed) is below.

[notadmblnd]

1. Why is it not good?

Cause I got a chuckle out of it.

[renie408]

3. It's not good because the State Department had no idea that Stevens had a diary, much less

that it was missing. It's not good because State has been apparently busted lying and then their representative has blamed CNN for finding the diary and using it. It's not good that instead of a rational response, someone about as close to Hillary Clinton as you can get told a reporter to FUCK OFF in writing. It's not good because one of the things that Stevens wrote about in his missing diary that got found by reporters was that he was concerned about his personal safety. It's not good because this is the kind of shit that Republicans will be all over and it whether you find it amusing or not, it makes both State and the White House look bad.

[lunatica]

29. This probably happens more than we think

And if anyone can handle the media or critics it's Hillary. She's been through much worse before and has always come out on top. I'm not worried about it.

[JNelson6563]

2. OMG! An obnoxious asshole was told to fuck off!1!

We've just lost the election!1!

Oy.

Julie

[renie408]

4. For chrissakes...

did you read it? Stevens had a diary in which he stated that he was concerned for his personal safety. You might not have noticed, but the security in Benghazi wasn't exactly all that great. That buck stops somewhere and in a tight election year, this is the kind of shit that could get really icky, really fast.

Pretending it is no big deal does not actually make it no big deal. And being sarcastic isn't a rational argument for why it isn't a big deal.

And was he REALLY being an obnoxious asshole or was he doing his job? We can't cheer for the reporter who kept after Romney about lobbyists in his campaign and then call the one that keeps after a State department representative an obnoxious asshole without being total hypocrites.

[DURHAM D]

6. Why are you deliberately ignoring the fact that CNN

should have turned the diary over to the State Department instead of using it? Everyone at CNN was an asshole around this issue.

I am glad they have been told off about it.

[renie408]

10. I am not ignoring that. CNN can be assholes AND the security could have been too light.

Those things are not mutually exclusive.

As long as Republicans don't latch onto it and use it to bash Obama, then it is an internal State Department problem and they need to figure it out. The whole thing does not look good for Hillary or Obama, though, and that is my main concern. If nobody picks it up, whatever.

[DURHAM D]

13. oh good lord...

We don't need to worry about Republicans using it given that you are deliberately skewing and misreading the situation so you can use it.

[renie408]

17. Want to back that up?

Precisely WHERE am I 'deliberately skewing and misreading the situation' so that I can 'use it'??

And exactly WHAT am I 'using it' for?

Are you insinuating that I am a closet Republican because I think it might be a BAD thing for Stevens to have been writing in his journal for eight months that he was concerned for his safety, his consulate was light on security and he wound up being killed? Cause, YA KNOW, that just seems like a reasonable response to me.

But I forgot...for some people if you say BOO about ANYBODY except a Republican, you must be a closet freeper.

[DURHAM D]

18. Hummmh - I didn't call you a Freeper.

[renie408]

59. No, you just said that I was intentionally skewing information

I inferred the freeper part. And since you have also accused me of 'ginning this story up', I am thinking I was accurate.

[tblue37]

81. I don't know what the truth is, but I read somewhere--can't remember where now--

that he expressed concern in his private journal, but no to his State Dept. superiors. Maybe that is true, maybe not. I just saw something like that somewhere.

[sad sally]

19. CNN reporters called the State Department hours after finding the diary, and sent them copies of

the seven pages; who in turn notified the family. The State Department had CNN turn over the original to an Italian diplomat (wonder why?) the next day.

If the CNN reporter hadn't picked it up, who would have? The investigative team didn't arrive until days after the attack. And yes, it was because of security concerns, but would the Ambassador's diary still have been there? Would it be in the hands of someone the US would rather not have found it? Guess we'll never know.

CNN, specifically Anderson Cooper, did err by not revealing that their reporter had found and read the journal, but there's a legitimate question in this story that hasn't come out and may have been in the diary. Did Ambassador Stephens have serious concerns about Embassy and Consular Security that weren’t being dealt with by the State Department?

[dkf]

33. They turned it over to the Italians because the American diplomats and even CIA had left.

The NYT reported that the Libyans were surprised at the US presence which was revealed when they saw how many Americans showed up at the airport. Talk about exposing your assets.

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. Should they have?

An independent press is one of the keystones of a functioning democracy, and in the aftermath of something like this, any self-respecting news organisation in possession of a diary belonging to a US diplomat murdered by an angry mob would be quite remiss in not using excerpts that show he was in fear for his life and concerned about his security arrangements. The purpose of the press isn't to support the government no matter what, after all.

[DURHAM D]

27. Do you have a comment about CNN promising the family they would not use it

and then they did?

[Spider Jerusalem]

30. Public interest trumps the family's concerns here

any journalist who had that info and didn't publish isn't worthy of the name.

[DURHAM D]

31. There is no public interest

except for that that is being manufactured.

[Spider Jerusalem]

32. Really?

There's no public interest in the events surrounding the death of a US diplomat and the fact that he was in fear for his life? None? I'd say there's a definite public interest; things that aren't in the public interest would include details of Stevens' personal life and private matters if available in his diary; CNN didn't publish anything like that. However there is a public interest in the material they did publish.

[dkf]

35. CNN is reporting the Benghazi consulate did not meet security standards.

Which begs the question about security at other consulates. We may have set ourselves up as targets.

And really they couldn't hide the breaches forever.

[DURHAM D]

39. This is the nature of the work and

everyone in foreign service knows it.

[dkf]

44. Yes it's dangerous and that is why cutting corners on security seems very careless to me.

It's not just about the Ambassador which was tragedy enough. The problem is our exposed vulnerabilities and the temping target we now make.

[DURHAM D]

48. I'm sorry, but again -

there is not enough money in the world to fully protect our foreign service personnel. A part of their job is to have open contact with local operatives which always makes them vulnerable and usually they live in regular neighborhoods which by definition is not safe . They know the risks going in and sometimes shit does happen.

I would also guess that the Ambassador was not supposed to be keeping a personal journal.

[2ndAmForComputers]

51. So, we allocate 800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000% of the budget for Defense?

Will that be enough?

[dkf]

34. They got corroboration from other sources.

So they say they technically did not use the journal. Whatever.

[Luminous Animal]

45. Why? What obligation did they have to turn it over to State?

[JNelson6563]

82. If I were asked questions in that way

I would've probably been less patient than what he got.

That e-mail screamed "confrontation" not "practical inquiry".

But you probably didn't see it considering you seem to share the "reporter's" hostility.

Julie

[MotherPetrie]

7. So CNN just happened to find a personal diary in the burned out embassy? Really?

Reminds me of the terrorist ID's being found in the Twin Towers rubble.

[RagAss]

14. Yup...think of how many morons swallowed that lie.

An id in pristine condition just laying on the sidewalk.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

24. One of the most outrageous lies in a pack of lies. "Oh! What have we here? Why, it's a passport!"

[DollarBillHines]

40. Singed on all four edges, as well.

That thing looked like some really bad elementary school project.

And John Mitchell was waving it around on teevee.

[sad sally]

22. Would you rather it was found by those who attacked or someone who may have used it for more

evil things?

[MotherPetrie]

37. So you turn around my questioning CNN's claim into my wanting somebody more evil to find it?

Interesting.

[DevonRex]

75. It is a fake.

The raid isn't as it appears either.

[Schema Thing]

28. My truck burned down to the tires

....seats and interior console/dash structures where just metal wire-frames. The firemen had thoroughly blasted the exterior and interior with water.

When I surveyed the scene a day later, in the middle of what used to be a console was the original Truck User Manual, every page in order and unburned except on the charred edges.


Reality doesn't care about your (or my) "common sense".

[MotherPetrie]

38. Good for your truck. That doesn't mean CNN's story isn't bullshit.

[DevonRex]

74. Exactly. Jesus. People will believe anything.

I'm surprised the commandos didn't have al Qaeda on their shirts too.

[Curtland1015]

9. Yeah, I'm fine with it.

Does the guy raise some interesting questions? Certainly.

Is he doing so like a totally obnoxious asshole? Absolutely.

Is this going to turn into a huge deal? I sincerely doubt it.

[renie408]

12. I am thinking more the back story than the actual name calling.

But if nobody thinks it will get picked up, good.

It just seemed to me like precisely the kind of story (Stevens being concerned about security prior to his death) that Republicans would be all over. If they aren't, fine.

[TeamPooka]

11. The spot where this story fits in the 24 hour news cycle just passed....blinked, missed it nt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

15. CNN....

A) Removed material evidence from a crime scene. Fortunately for the CNN reporter, this particular crime scene happened to be in a foreign country. Had they done this in the United States, said CNN reporter would have been arrested and charged with tampering with evidence.

B) Removed a personal diary of a U.S. Ambassador that might have contained classified and/or top secret infomation (i.e. the names of individuals in Libya who are cooperating with the United States. That sort of information could get someone killed.

C) Read the diary of a deceased person before offering to return it to that person's next of kin. Regardless of the existence of A or B above, it was a total dick move.

I'm glad that Hillary hires people like this.

[DURHAM D]

16. They also promised family members they would not use it - then they used it.

[renie408]

46. This isn't about CNN. This is about an American Ambassador

who was murdered after writing for something like eight months in his journal that he was worried for his own safety and specifically about being targeted about al Qaeda. And then he WAS targeted by al Qaeda, so his instincts were accurate.

The concern was who else beside himself he shared his worries with. If he never transmitted them up the chain of command, then he should have. If he did, something went really, really wrong here and pretending that the debate should be about CNN is ridiculous.

[kurt_cagle]

61. Put this in perspective

Libya is currently little more than a paper thin parliament and a bunch of rogue militias, some of which have serious axes to grind with the US. Should more security have been given? Arguably, yes. Would it have made much difference? Probably not. It was a hazardous posting, and the State Department operates on a shoestring budget (the Republicans are great at funding the military, but the State department? FugettaboutIt.) The budget was small enough that they hired primarily local security staff ... who ran away rather than face the militias.

It does point out one thing, however. People who work for the government put their lives on the line. We sometimes forget about that, especially the Drown Government in a Bathtub crowd. If you don't support these people by providing the funding to run their missions right, then when things go wrong don't go pointing fingers anywhere except yourself.

[DevonRex]

71. If you believe that was al Qaeda or that was his diary

then Romney has a bridge to sell you.

[Quantess]

20. This seems about 100x worse than telling someone off.

The reaction is understandable.

[sad sally]

26. With no US security in sight, would it have been better to leave it for the looters or attackers?

Yes, CNN screwed up by not saying they had found the journal, they should have been transparent in saying that. But seems like it's news the public has a right to know if the Ambassador was concerned about the security that should have been a State Department priority, which led to his death by an attack - with little or no security provided to him.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

78. They should have turned it over immediately...

This is a no-brainer. The public does NOT have the right to the contents of an Ambassador's diary because it is either a) classified or b) personal. There are lines a journalist isn't supposed to cross.

[Spider Jerusalem]

36. "I don't understand journalism at all"

B) Removed a personal diary of a U.S. Ambassador that might have contained classified and/or top secret infomation (i.e. the names of individuals in Libya who are cooperating with the United States. That sort of information could get someone killed.

And didn't publish any of said classified info which, let's be honest, a professional probably wouldn't be putting in his personal diary en clair anyway; it'd be in some sort of code, precisely because of security concerns; however since CNN didn't publish any classified information which may harm US interests or intelligence assets, this is a non-point.

C) Read the diary of a deceased person before offering to return it to that person's next of kin. Regardless of the existence of A or B above, it was a total dick move.

We're not talking about "a deceased person", we're talking about a US ambassador murdered by an angry mob of violent extremists. His concerns regarding his personal safety and security arrangements are of public interest. Any journalist who had such a diary in his possession, and didn't read it, should quit his job and go to work selling insurance or something, because he's clearly not cut out to be a journalist. Public interest trumps anything like "family concern" in a case like this.

[DefenseLawyer]

21. If handwringing was an Olympic sport...

DU would be buried in gold medals

[renie408]

42. It is handwringing to be concerned that a US Ambassador was murdered after writing

for eight months in his journal that he was worried about his personal safety and security in a consulate attack which exhibited rather glaringly to the world that the security for our diplomats was, at least in this instance, sketchy?

REALLY?

Let me ask you this...if this EXACT SAME STORY had occurred five years ago, what do you think would be happening here at the DU?

No, it isn't the handwringing, it's the hypocrisy. And honestly, I am embarrassed for you.

[DefenseLawyer]

62. Your post was focused salty language in an e-mail exchange with someone from "Buzzfeed"

If THAT story had occurred, I really don't think anyone would care much more than they care now. Now if you want to change topics and talk about the actual Libyan consulate attack, well it's a free country.

[renie408]

69. Did you READ the article?

The whole article? Cause it was about the consulate attack. I am not changing subjects. That WAS the subject of the emails back and forth which resulted in the guy from State telling the reporter to fuck off. What set the guy from State off was the reporter asking a bunch of awkward questions about the diary, the consular security and about a reporter from CNN just being able to walk into a US consulate and walk off with the Ambassador's private diary.

There was also a link in the article to another article more specifically about the diary.

[HooptieWagon]

23. Kudos to State Dept.

Sounds like CNN were real assholes.

[hexola]

41. Cant the disparity of informations be blamed on "fog of war"?

Or something to that effect...? It did seem to be chaotic...

I'm less concerned about this exchange, and more the meme that "they lied."

A diary? Is this an official record? Did they know it existed?

Were we supposed to send more folks in harms way to retrieve something we may (or may not) have known existed?

CNN doesnt have to be diplomatic and can take more risk than the state dept? I guess that shouldn't be surprising.

[renie408]

43. From what I have read, State didn't know the diary existed until

somebody found it in the rubble at the consulate. I believe the point that those who are not trying to ignore this away are trying to make is that it is BAD that it was not found by the US. We are busy telling everyone that NO sensitive documents were lost during the attack, and OOPS! The Ambassador's private journal gets found either by a CNN reporter or by someone who turned it over to a CNN reporter without State even knowing it existed. That makes the job of convincing people that nothing important was taken a little harder. I think that we are supposed to secure our consulates and embassies and their contents, particularly in the instance of unrest. I believe the point being made is that we did not have sufficient security to do so and it appears to be a fair statement given what happened.

And YES, his family confirmed it was his diary. It was not a fake or a plant.

[hexola]

49. Is "sufficient security" a possibility in a country like Lybia?

Unrest has been the theme in Lybia for months.

Seems our presence/security has to walk a very fine line between "being there" and "not being there" (ie visibility)

Its a hair splitter - but if this was a personal diary, I have to think these are very different thoughts that one might find in a professional diary.

You can tell your personal diary "Im scared shitless..." - while remaining professionally, undetered.

[renie408]

52. I don't know.

That was kind of what I was wondering about when I posted this.

I don't know what kind of security would be considered adequate or customary. I believe I read that they relied heavily on local police who fled when the mob came down the street.

Look, I swear to god I am not a closet Republican or trying to start trouble for 'our side' or whatever. But to be damn honest, on the 11th anniversary of 9/11 when an Ambassador has been specifically worried about being targeted by terrorists...and then gets targeted by terrorists and murdered, I think it is a legitimate thing to ask ourselves if something got screwed up. Also, you have to admit it is pretty fucked up that his diary was found by CNN three days after the riots.

"Three days after he was killed, CNN found a journal belonging to late U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens. The journal was found on the floor of the largely unsecured consulate compound where he was fatally wounded."

'Largely unsecured' is not ever a phrase that is good in connection with the consulate where a US Ambassador was recently murdered. Particularly when we are busy telling the world that nothing of import was taken from the compound.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/22/world/africa/libya-ambassador-journal/index.html

[renie408]

47. BTW..so far MASSIVE failure to make this less not good. In fact, most responses have made it

worse because they are either sticking their fingers in their ears or their tongue out at me for being so icky as to have noticed that something might be amiss. That or they are blaming that mean ole CNN for doing that reporting thing and letting the people know what they found out.

There may very well be a reason for what happened. Stevens may not have shared his fears up the chain of command. Maybe, for whatever reason, they looked at the security issues and thought they had it covered. Anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that they would have been wrong should that be the case.


No matter what, this has certainly been eye opening. If this exact same story had happened five years ago, this place would be going apeshit, not 'pooh pooh'.

[DURHAM D]

50. I would simply suggest you not plan a career in foreign service.

There are no guarantees.

[renie408]

55. I cannot decide if you think you are being clever or not.

And which is more sad...if you actually think you are clever or if you are this dismissive of the death of a US Ambassador.

Are you seriously trying to tell America that we cannot protect our own? Cause I got news for ya, that is going to go over just SWELL with our opponents!

And even if we can't protect our own diplomatic personnel, do you think we could POSSIBLY secure the contents of our consulate and not just let a CNN reporter walk in and walk out with the Ambassador's private journal??

[DevonRex]

72. Seems you do keep peddling gloom and doom.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

53. it's about time

a Democrat told some rethuglican to fuck off

[Bucky]

54. Four of his colleagues just got murdered. My guess is he took it personally.

Passions are gonna run pretty hot on a topic like this. Civility can break down quickly when people you identify with--and for all we know, possibly people he was friends with--get killed in brutal and public manners. There's a time for the press to ask unbearable questions. This wasn't one of those times.

[renie408]

57. I posted the wrong article because I don't really care about

the guy from State telling the reporter to fuck off.

The parts I think are REALLY bad are:

A) Stevens wrote in his journal for something like eight months that he was worried about his safety and security. He specifically mentioned being targeted by al Qaeda. That he was subsequently targeted by terrorists and murdered lends one to believe that he was accurate in his fears. It also makes you wonder WHY, if he was that worried, the security at the consulate was not more stringent on 9/11. If there was a screw up, somebody needs to figure out how high up it went.

B) It cannot be good that a CNN reporter walked into what they are calling the 'largely unsecured' compound and found the journal lying around. That undermines our efforts to reassure the world that nothing important was taken from the embassy.

I am SO not an expert on any of this stuff and that is why I asked about it here. I know there are people here who do know about this kind of thing. I have to say, I was a little shocked at how dismissive many of the responses were. I know that if this same thing had happened five years ago, we would have been all over it.

[hexola]

60. The part that might be REALLY bad...

Is that he kept a diary at all...

I think that should be the first question...

Are these folks allowed to keep personal journals/notes like this?

[renie408]

64. I don't know that either. And you are right.

That doesn't seem good to me, either.

[Spider Jerusalem]

58. But there's never a time for government officials to berate the press for doing their job.

And if he can't cope with pressure and trying circumstances without losing his cool then he's probably in the wrong line of work, honestly.

[renie408]

63. Especially not when losing his shit and telling a reporter to FUCK OFF

calls even more attention to the much more disturbing back story.

I had somebody send me a link to the 'fuck off' story and from there read about the journal, etc.

[hexola]

65. Something tells me there's more personal backstory between the two parties...?

The comment about "what women say about you..." seems to indicate some previous animosity or grudge.

[hexola]

66. Let's remember - this is an email exchange.

And NOT in person or public.

[renie408]

67. LOL...my daddy always told me, "Never put it in writing."

The 'fuck off' thing is unfortunate, but when you read the exchange, the reporter got shitty first. I don't think the State guy should have let himself be led into losing his temper, but in a world where the Vice President can stand on the floor of the Senate and tell a Senator to go fuck himself...eh. It is is unfortunate in that it calls more attention to the story and makes it harder for State to hold the high ground. I also cannot help but think it is going to put Hillary in the position of having to comment and I would think she would want to let this drift away, if possible.

Again, I think the more unnerving story is the fact that Stevens was worried, was keeping a diary talking about how worried he was, that he was right about being worried, that he was killed, that the security has been questioned even before the diary came to light and that a CNN reporter walked into a consulate and walked back out with the diary.

I think all that stuff is pretty worrisome. But then I have been told I am just a handwringer.

[Spider Jerusalem]

68. Same rules apply.

He's being questioned in his official capacity. Therefore regardless of whether it's email or not he should try to behave in a more professional manner and to not lose his temper. "You're a prick, fuck off and die, how dare you ask questions" is NOT the appropriate tone for a State Department official to take with a journalist, ever, regardless of circumstances.

[DevonRex]

76. The press easily found what they were meant

to find. And then they did what they did. Rather dishonestly.

[Spider Jerusalem]

77. Meant to find by whom?

the authenticity of the diary was verified by Stevens' family; the only plausible alternative explanation to "we found this" was "this was taken from Stevens' body and a Libyan offered it to us for sale, and we bought it", but either way it comes to the same thing. And then they read it and published those parts relevant to security concerns of US diplomatic officials and the inadequacy of security at American diplomatic missions. Which is in the public interest, and is the press doing their job (or at least what should be the job of a free press in a democracy). "Honesty" doesn't enter into it.

[PAMod]

70. OK, I've read the original post, and the replies and the replies to the replies.

Listen, if we find out (with actual proof) that Ambassador Stevens pleaded with State to increase his security or to physically pull him out of there, and then died because neither happened, then I would say there is a real problem, and some people better start explaining.

But if you think there's going to be trouble for the administration because of what CNN says he wrote in his personal diary, I think your concern is unwarranted.

The only issue here is that CNN had no business even opening that journal, and went against common standards of ethics and integrity when they used information from the journal.

[DevonRex]

73. Funny how this diary survived and CNN just "happened"

to find it, no? Food for thought.

[juajen]

79. This is ridiculous. I wasted my time reading this and the replies.

[leeroysphitz]

80. You worry too much. You'll make yourself sad. n/t

[Hutzpa]

83. Reading that article

it reminds me of the movie 'SAFE HOUSE' by Denzel Washington.

Could not help but think that there are those who are working overtime in making sure that this country
stays on the war path, which obviously puts the economy in shambles.