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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJennifer Rubin: Why I dropped 'conservative' from my Twitter profile
Washington PostLets be honest: There is no conservative movement or party today. There is a Republican Party thoroughly infused with racism and intellectually corrupted by right-wing nationalism. But there is no party that believes in less or small government (though expect the GOP to hypocritically resume singing that tune as soon as a Democrat steps into the Oval Office).
If you say you are a staunch defender of the rule of law, that you are devoted to ending systematic racism, that you are an advocate of legal immigration, that you believe in objective reality (including climate change science) and that you think illiberal regimes such as Russia are our greatest foreign threat, the party of Trump will lash out at you. They will accuse you of Trump derangement syndrome and dub you a fake conservative. Well, they have a point. Because conservatives no longer seem to champion any of those positions (or free trade or American international leadership or NATO), it is hard to say I fit in any longer.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)their life's philosophy? Trump's caricature of conservatism may be the tipping point for some. How many have been forced to take a look at the consequences of their actions for the society they have worked so long to harm?
onetexan
(13,024 posts)rats are abandoning ship and left dazed & confused as to what happened to their party.
JHB
(37,157 posts)...and that before 4-5 years ago it was all fine.
Even those who do engage in a deeper dive rarely go deep enough. They pine for the "real" conservatism from when they were younger, early in their careers, but usually fail to take a hard look at that time period too, question whether their perceptions at the time glossed over some ugliness that they're now experienced enough to recognize, and do some large-scale re-thinking.
Very few are willing to admit they were somebody else's useful idiot.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I will wait to see what some other notable ones do. Trump is about as far from their nirvana as one can imagine, and he owns their movement lock, stock and barrel now. Their movement has always been about racism and resentment, even if people like Stevens and Rubin once tried desperately to ignore what was in plain sight.
yonder
(9,657 posts)to assess the current state of the GOP, if not conservatism in general.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)she held a worldview for most of her life, and now she sees large chunks of it were just a hypocritical lie.
I get it, her worldview was bullshit, but still, I can't imagine having everything I thought was true and right turn out to be a lie.
yardwork
(61,539 posts)She's just saying that today's Republican Part is led by such complete morons even conservatives don't fit anymore.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)But I do think she thought there was a movement based on principle that she was a part of but now there isn't.
Beartracks
(12,801 posts)... for several decades now. Funny she mentions Reagan conservatives fostering the Tea Party as some kind of moderate comeback attempt... because from where her party has ever-so-slowly dragged her over all these years, Reagan looks downright normal. But wasn't that really the era that modern conservatism tacked to the right and never looked back? Or was the die cast with Nixon's "southern strategy"?
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qazplm135
(7,447 posts)Is or is not correct, which I clearly have stated twice now.
Beartracks
(12,801 posts)===========
NRaleighLiberal
(60,008 posts)Silent3
(15,151 posts)...themselves conservative for decades, I think there are some good conservative ideas, at least when seen as a counterbalance to liberal ideas which, without opposition, can go badly in their implementation.
We just haven't seen a lot of smart (and non-selfish) conservatism for a long, long time.
I think of a good conservative as one who will, when liberals implement basically good ideas for, say, environmental regulation, don't screw it up by making the regulations unnecessarily burdensome. (I've definitely seen well-intended regulations which cause more unintended problems than they solve.)
I think of a good conservative as one who will, when liberals rightfully try to alleviate the excesses wealth inequality, remind liberals not to go so far that they disincentivise personal initiative and personal responsibility.
Celerity
(43,133 posts)It is a RW talking point to infer that people will lack personal initiative simple because of a more expansive welfare state than the threadbare joke of one that exists now.
Silent3
(15,151 posts)...and nothing else, however. When it is treated as having a more literal meaning, that's when in becomes a useful concept.
Celerity
(43,133 posts)Silent3
(15,151 posts)You might perfer to find different words, perhaps, if you feel a need to disassociate with past abuses of the concept, but of course personal responsibility itself still exists.
What many of us here on DU are desperately longing for is to see Trump and his cronies forced to take personal responsibility for the damage they've caused, hopefully in the form of long jail sentences (yeah, not too likely, especially for Trump himself, but we can dream).
If I were religious (which I'm not) I'd not be too happy to be a liberal Christian and have my belief system so badly tarnished by the way the right wing has weaponized the word "Christianity", but that doesn't suddenly make Christianity itself "no longer a useful concept". The basic meaning behind the word doesn't disappear because the word itself has been abused.
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)has died long ago in the USA if it ever really existed.
Go back to 1942 and the U-Boat offensive against the USA - it took over 6 months for the government to FORCE beach resorts and eastern cities such as Miami and NYC to turn of the damn lights at night so the subs would not have easy targets highlighted by the neon signs. In fact, I believe NYC sued the federal government in attempt to keep the lights on in Times Square.
Beaches and tourism were more important then keeping merchant sailors alive - a blackout infringed on peoples right to have fun.
We are inherently a selfish society.
Silent3
(15,151 posts)That's a ridiculous take on this. "We aren't personally responsible, we're too selfish, so therefore the idea has no meaning. Don't say that anymore!"
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)American Culture is inherently selfish. It is in our culture and can be traced back to the very begiining of it.
Don;t want t ohear it, or don't agree, fine. But never tell me not to say anythung. You have no right. Disagree yes, - but tell me to shut up - goodbye.
Good day and happy ignore to you.
Silent3
(15,151 posts)I never told you not to say anything, or to shut up.
And there's nothing in my words that in anyway involves hiding from any facts either.
Mopar151
(9,975 posts)I call them "Merrriam-Webster Conservatives" Careful, thrifty, capable of kindness, fair and honest. To quote Howard Dean (badly..) "If you want to have money to help people, you can't waste it!"
I have also heard the term "Ikes" (Eisenhower conservatives, education and infrastructure are investments), and "Main Street Republicans" (Gerald Ford was the last example, nationally)
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)They have never had a visionary idea of how to truly make society a better place for all of us.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,008 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)But after those two, big business took over the party and eventually the Dixiecrats, with their race based hatred and extreme religious views flooded into the party after the Democratic Party started to fully embrace civil rights for Black people starting in 1948
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)But after all the shenanigans of the last Bush administration, including the torturing, indefinite detention, domestic spying, lying the country into two wars (that continue to this day), and the rest of it, I still have a reserve of head-shaking disbelief that it took the Trump administration to finally get some people off their dead and dying asses.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)AZ8theist
(5,417 posts)"NOW" Repukes are a problem???
She advanced their agenda every chance she got.
Fuck her.
sarge43
(28,940 posts)It took her four years to come to that conclusion??
After taking children away from their families and locking them in cages to hand waving away Russian bounties on American soldiers.
Pottery Barn rule, sweetie: You broke it; you pay for it.
tulipsandroses
(5,122 posts)She's a regular guest on MSNBC. Even before he got the republican nomination, she was against him.
Celerity
(43,133 posts)Her vision of governance is that of a fundamentally unchained, for the most part, laissez faire hellscape of corporate control, buttressed by a globalised, hyper-built American military clutching at maintenance of the petrodollar matrix as the dominant geo-political, geo-economic force.
AZ8theist
(5,417 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)They confused small government with efficient government and never realized their delusion. In reality, democratic Presidents and Congresses have far out-performed Republican ones on the economy and meaningful societal chance for over three quarters of a century.
They see us as the potential saviors that can slay the demons that they helped created and give them their party back. But except for Stuart Stevens, I have yet to see one of them do a deep introspective analysis of all they once held dear and agree that it was all a mirage.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)She wanted puke to stay employed instead of feces.
quakerboy
(13,917 posts)How about Pence? How about Mitch and Collins?
Trump has only been the next logical step in supporting a long line of terrible people and ideas that the right have forced upon us. anyone who supported the whole rest of the doom train is not a person to be giving great credibility.
aggiesal
(8,907 posts)She's been an opinion writer for the last 20 years,
she help bring on, this current scourge of Pendejo45.
So she can't hide behind her, "no longer conservative" writing.
Hekate
(90,564 posts)...believe in back when they were credible, responsible, believed in good government, and could work across the aisle.
andym
(5,443 posts)and most likely is a strong free market advocate. Rather she is a traditional Republican whose party has become unrecognizable. She is neither a Democrat nor a Trumpublican.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)A Conservative who's polite about fucking America over.
BadGimp
(4,012 posts)RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Ms. Rubin and her buddies Bill Kristol and Mike Steele can kindly shut the fuck up.
Crunchy Frog
(26,578 posts)as much as I've loathed Bill Kristol in the past, and very likely in the future, I think he's doing an outstanding job with RVAT.
Mike Steele was on fire last night on the 11th Hour. We need as many hands on deck as possible right now IMO.
Start about 1:22 min in.
moonscape
(4,673 posts)the most emotional I think Ive ever seen him.
Dem2
(8,166 posts)I was pleasantly surprised to see that she has acted as if she almost took my advice.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,165 posts)We always witness the divide between the left and right in the Democratic party. With AOC going so far as saying that in another country, Biden and her would be in different parties. Its such a cause of contention in here that's for sure. Letting them have their own party would solve a lot of angst on the left. But only of course if there was also a new QAnon Tea Party along with a revamped Never-Trumper Lincoln Project, moderate Republican Conservative party. To balance things out
With the concept of having two other parties to represent the extremes in both two major parties. And the assumption that each of those new parties would back their more moderate sister parties in legislation they agreed with, much like Sanders, an Independent, usually votes with Democrats.
I know I'd feel more relieved to know that most likely the more extreme QAnon Tea Party, or Trump Party, would never gain a majority, even if it means the AOC/Sanders New Revolution party would also be marginalized. (They already are anyways).
It would keep the two major parties more moderate every election, but with an eye over their shoulders.
Just ruminating here, Vote Blue always of course!
Celerity
(43,133 posts)the union in. The Senate itself is another, as is the Electoral College, and a far newer one, the rise of the imperial presidency over the past 50 to 55 years or so. The poorly written, nebulous, 2nd Amendment is yet another.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,165 posts)Yeah, PR should be the norm for every democracy. It would not only be fairer representation, but make it easier for new parties to have inroads. New parties = new ideas. Never a bad thing. And those new ideas would not be taken seriously unless they held some kind of power, ie. PR.
*again, vote Blue! Not advocating for voting third party in November (I can't believe I have to do this) We should be able to discuss broader political projections without being accused of being traitors to the Democratic party.
MoonchildCA
(1,301 posts)...or poorly interpreted?
Celerity
(43,133 posts)Roy Rolling
(6,908 posts)Republican racists now claim they are currently great emancipators in the image of Lincoln. They also claim Democrats were the party of slaverywhich at one time some Democrats were guilty.
Labels change. People seldom do. And time makes fools of us all if we equate the two.
People like Rubin and Michael Steele dont need to pass a purity test to participate in the debate about why Trumpism is fascism 2.0. They have a platform most, if not all, of us dont have. If theyre using that platform to help me defeat fascism, I dont care what flag they once flew under.
The corruption of the English language is a gigantic element of propaganda. The words liberal and conservative need to be taken away from zealots and redefined accurately.
hibbing
(10,095 posts)All those attributes you apply to the current Republican party also apply perfectly to the man and party then. I guess we can be thankful it took you 40 years to realize it.
Peace
Cha
(296,875 posts)Sympthsical
(9,041 posts)Now she wants liberals to.
People dont seem to get this about a lot of Never Trumpers. Trump dislodged them from their comfortable DC social pecking order. They would have been perfectly content with a Bush, Rubio, or Cruz. Theyd bang a drum for Cheney.
Trump wasnt supposed to take over a party they largely felt they had some control and say in. They were the political equivalent of Instagram influencers. But the base moved on to a carnival barker, and theyre pissed about their diminished influence.
I love that she threw systemic racism in there. Like she ever gave a shit before. Shes just sniffing after the cash she figures shes likeliest to find nowadays.
I wish people wouldnt celebrate her. Its like the fawning over Steve Schmidt. I know he hates Trump for much the same reason. Lets have him as a friendly enemy until Nov. 3rd. But hes not some awesome genius of great insight and wisdom. This is the man who gave us Palin.
DFW
(54,302 posts)There will be a shootout in the middle of Constitution Avenue !
Oh, and as for the definition of "conservative" vs. Republican, I suggest she get herself a good dictionary (one the preferably does NOT tell you to form a plural with an apostrophe). Less or small government is a conservative concept. It's a right-wing Republican concept. Just because Republicans have hijacked a word doesn't mean they get to transform its meaning. They can wade into the ocean, too. It still doesn't turn them into fish.
If you want to play with words, you use them to MAKE jokes, not to become one.
Raine
(30,540 posts)that she would've been if Jeb or Mitt had become president.
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)They all suck.
I will never again entertain the thought of compromising with one of these disingenuous pricks.
They have as much use to me as toe jam. Wash them away and move on.
StrictlyRockers
(3,855 posts)I can't stand her. She can f off with all this soul-searching crap. Too little, way too late.
czarjak
(11,254 posts)Jen? You built this! So, no way, do you get a pass here.
quakerboy
(13,917 posts)The republican party has been wholeheartedly a meeting of compatable racists, religeous powerbrokers, and the wealthy elite for longer than i have been alive. The only thing that has happened now is that the thin veil they used to pretend to be "conservative" has been even more blatantly shredded.
I have 0% trust for any public person, and precious few private persons for whom this is the turning point. Rats who want to abandon ship after knowingly gnawing holes in the hull are not exactly sympathetic or reliable.
Grins
(7,199 posts)Conservatives, then called Tories before and during the American Revolution - backed the King!!
Someone defined it as the philosophy of: "If you get more, then I get less."
And that includes getting the right to vote - because if an African-American or an immigrant gets to vote that means his vote means less. And you can extend that to everything in American culture.
Warpy
(111,169 posts)Coming to the party late is better than never showing up, at all.
Republicans have never wanted to conserve anything. They are radical reactionaries blinded by dogma that has never worked in practice. Nixon brought in the bigots, Reagan prought in the religious nuts. Glad you've noticed that, after all these years.
Zambero
(8,962 posts)Pre-Trump = Astroturf
Trump Era = Scorched Earth
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,088 posts)Possibly because Democrats embrace conservatives into their party via blue dogs and an occasional religious fanatic. It was either Iraq or gay rights that purged all liberals/progressives from the GOP. Arlen Spector for example. One of the last moderates in the GOP.