We shouldn't have fallen for mail in voting

[SlogginThroughIt]

I know this will not be popular but this was a mistake. I understand we are in a pandemic but they are going to try to discredit the election. He is ranting right now about it.

[SoonerPride]

1. I vote by mail every election. I didn't fall for anything.

Thanks for playing.

[SlogginThroughIt]

3. Where though?

In a state like Oregon or one where it is the norm? That is different.

[still_one]

26. +++

[Miguelito Loveless]

2. He was going to discredit the election if he lost,

regardless of how it was held.

[SlogginThroughIt]

5. Maybe but this made it easy for him.

[stopbush]

10. He's allowed to believe his own bs. You shouldn't be as gullible.

[SlogginThroughIt]

23. I am not gullible.

We are going to have to fight this.

[Miguelito Loveless]

14. Nope.

It made it safer for voters. He would have called for "defense" of the polls by his flying monkeys to provoke violence, then sent in federal troops to "quell" the disturbance, allowing ballots to be destroyed in the ensuing chaos.

[Clash City Rocker]

19. Only with stupid people, who will believe it's rigged if he loses regardless

[SoonerPride]

30. Easy fr him? What the fuck are you talking about.

This thread is getting trashed

[Bettie]

66. This

If we were all voting in person, he'd declare that there were millions if "illegal" votes against him by "illegals".

So, ultimately, we need to do what we've got to do, because it won't change his behavior one bit.

[madaboutharry]

4. No.

He is full of shit and "everyone" knows it.

[bullwinkle428]

6. "Fallen for it"? Did you see the tsunami of early in-person voters, lined

up in Virginia this morning? What is the POS going to do now? Try to discredit all of these early in-person votes cast prior to Election day?

[SlogginThroughIt]

8. Right!

That is what we should have been pushing for!
More early voting!

[Thekaspervote]

33. Almost all states have a fairly long early voting period

[samnsara]

7. the states that have been doing it for years and years have had no issues..

[SlogginThroughIt]

13. Right!

That is exactly right. And I am not saying that we cannot do it correctly. It has become a sideshow that he is going to use to discredit. I have no doubt he and his supporters are going to do things that make it appear to be a problem.

[Mike 03]

9. Voting by mail didn't just suddenly appear this year.

I've voted by mail for about 15 years.

Trump is going to try to scare people who are voting in person too, with his threats of goons at the polls.

[uponit7771]

11. Sooooo, Trump would ... NOT ... have ranted against any other tools of democracy? Thx in advance

[spanone]

12. nobody 'fell for it'. it's an integral part of voting. he'll rant till hell freezes over

FUCK HIM

[SlogginThroughIt]

16. Yes he will!

This opened up another avenue.

[Dem2]

15. All or nothing thinking

Just stop it.

I'm voting absentee this time as are many others.

So what - it's used in all 50 states already - calm down.

[SlogginThroughIt]

20. Don't tell me what to do.

[SoonerPride]

25. But isn't telling others what to do the subject of your post?

I don't get it.

[Dem2]

27. ?

"SlogginThroughIt

20. Don't tell me what to do."

Did you really mean to post that?

[LisaL]

53. Well why are you telling people they have fallen for something?

If nobody can tell you nothing, why do you feel you can tell people what they should or shouldn't be doing?

[Mike 03]

17. Trump always tries to scare people away from doing the thing he most fears they

will do.

So he's actually more worried about people voting by mail, which means that we should vote by mail.

Of course, closer to election day, he will try to scare people from even voting in person.

We really should not take the bait.

[stillcool]

18. I can't wait to vote by mail...

as soon as possible. I think the route the ballot takes is much more secure than other voting methods.

[Autumn]

21. I have voted by mail for several years now. Trump lies. There is no problem with Mail in voting.

Fuck that old fool, he rants about everything.

[SlogginThroughIt]

32. They are going to MAKE PROBLEMS!

Of course mail in voting is and should be a thing.

They are going to attack it and make a farce out of it. That is what DeJoy has beeb doing all along. This doesn’t require hacking. Low tech mischief is what they will do to cast doubt.

Watch this is exactly what they are going to do.

[Autumn]

46. Guess what? They are ALWAYS going to MAKE PROBLEMS! That's what they do.

[rainin]

22. Mailed votes are the only votes they can't erase with surgical precision without a trace

We've been led to believe that in-person voting is safe despite evidence to the contrary. If republicans are fighting it, we know it's for a reason. They can't win if we vote by mail

[Tanuki]

24. Fuck Trump. We shouldn't have to risk serious illness or death to cast a vote.

He can rant, rave, and stomp his foot through the floor like Trumpelstilskin for all I care. He would have found something else to lie about and some other excuse to "discredit the eIection" if it hadn't been mail-in ballots.

[mahina]

28. No. It works.

And in Hawaii it’s the law.

[pamdb]

29. mail in

Every time he opens his pie hole he goes on a rant about mail in voting. Im not sure anyone pays any attention anymore.

The reporter asked him about the 5 masks that the CDC wanted to send to every household and the WH squashed it. He sad he didn't know anything about it and immediately pivoted to the post office not making any money (like that's the purpose of the PO) and then his standard rant and then left. Such a disgusting piece of orange shit.

[Dream Girl]

31. Trump doesn't want VBV because it's more difficult to hack

[Vinca]

34. The press needs to ask him during one of his little rants if he's behind after the walk-in votes

are counted, will he immediately concede or will he demand the mail-in ballots be counted.

[SlogginThroughIt]

36. Yeah the tried

They tried to ask him all sorts of things and he just walked out.

[lark]

35. In FL if you vote by mail as a Dem, you are very likely to have your ballot tossed.

In 2018, their signature matching, which is only given stringent use on mailed in ballots, is designed to disenfranchise anyone who has aged or had other health issues since the date they signed the voting card. The state is supposed to notify folks to come and verify their identity, only one no who is Democrat receives the notice. In 2019 I was working part time for FL Dems and not one we called had gotten the letter from the state. They just throw your ballot out.

For FL, early voting is the only way to go if you want to ENSURE that your vote counts. You can vote at any library, fire station and anywhere else so designated 9-5 6 days a week, so it's really great for people who have moved. We are early voting. My daughter is the only one who insists on voting in person, but she had the virus, luckily a very mild case, so isn't at risk now.

[SlogginThroughIt]

38. informative.

[lark]

42. Thank you.

[LisaL]

52. If you are early voting in person, then you are voting in person.

Voting in person means you go to a voting location and vote. Doesn't matter if early or on election day.

[lark]

90. It matters to me and to many others.

The closest voting location for early voting is a library, which is not my usual polling place. My polling place is much further away and is inconvenient with the very large hill that has to be walked up. When I was working, I'd early vote on lunch at the library near where I worked since the one I'm assigned to is always packed. There are generally no lines with early voting nor any poll watchers there to harass folks. Yes, it is in person and I will be wearing a mask and gloves, but with no or little lines and no harassment and the satisfaction of knowing my vote was counted, I will vote early and safely.

If FL didn't have the awful disenfranchising strict signature matching, and if there were drop boxes, I'd 100% vote by mail, but that isn't the case here.

[Crunchy Frog]

68. I'm surprised that's not regarded as a major legal offense.

I don't see how it can possibly be legal to throw out ballots based on party affiliation.

How can we fix things like this?

[Hekate]

76. I think the House & Senate could pass something, hmm, wht could they call it? ...

I know! The Voting Rights At, and it could cover the entire country!

[lark]

91. Maybe they don't throw them out, but just don't send letters to the Dems?

Or maybe there's an algorithm looking for certain names & fuckery involved with that like there was with the Crosscheck BS used previously in this state and thrown out by the courts?

I just know over 100,000 mailed in ballots were tossed in 2018 due to alleged signature mismatches.

[CaptainTruth]

37. Vote by mail produces a paper trail, paper ballots that can be audited to check for election fraud.

I think that's probably one of the reasons Trump is against it. If everyone votes in person on a machine it makes it easier for the GOP to fudge the numbers because there are no paper ballots that can be double-checked to statistically verify the machine totals.

[lunasun]

49. ++ this 100%

[Backseat Driver]

39. I sort of agree having recently

encountered problems between a government agency and the mail system that undoubtedly would have resulted in a significantly higher cost/penalty without the careful examination of my Informed Delivery scans. With USPS now in crisis, there are just too many places for (ahem) human error! So there's that. Personally, Election Day and in-person voting is so important, I'm willing to risk CoVid-19. We now use a system where the ballot goes from my hand into what passes for a ballot-box. I am thankful we also now have many days to vote early! I have to continue to have faith that my ballot vote, cast in that manner, though through a digital voting machine, has the best chance at being counted correctly.

[poli-junkie]

40. I'm dropping my ballot off at the county election drop box.

[SlogginThroughIt]

41. Great!

[MizLibby]

56. Me too. And my county has a "Where's My Ballot" web portal that tracks your ballot right

up to the actual count process. Mail and ballot drop box are how we vote here.

[Squinch]

67. Try and drop it in a lily white neighborhood, because Woodward's book describes how they

fuck with the voting in other neighborhoods.

[marble falls]

43. Of course he is. If he can't compromise voters, he's got to compromise the vote.

[Raven123]

44. What? Its one way to counter the reduction in polling places

[Thomas Hurt]

45. F**k Trump

The nutjob has been engaging in a ramped campaign of lies and desperate attempts at last minute "policy" initiatives to scare or bribe people to vote for him. F**k him and the Russian Bear he rode in on.

[tulipsandroses]

47. It will be interesting to see if Biden is leading

On Election Day, if he’ll start ranting about waiting on all the mail in ballots

[Crunchy Frog]

48. Nobody "fell" for anything. Our big mistake was simply underestimating...

the degree to which it would try to fuck up the election process in order for it to steal a second term.

If there weren't a pandemic going on, he would be pulling other kinds of shit. It was always going to try to steal the election, whatever the circumstances.

[LisaL]

50. What are you talking about?

Fallen for what?
Many states have used voting by mail for many election cycles.
Are you suggesting that because of Trump's nonsense, we should stop voting by mail?

[H2O Man]

54. Gosh!

As if they wouldn't try to discredit it if everyone voted in person.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

55. I trust it more than the voting machines here.

I'll deliver the ballot directly to my BOE and track the status online. If there's a problem, I'll later vote in person.

[pat_k]

57. Not only that, but mail in ballots are being disqualified at high rates.

Take these two facts together and you get a Trump win.

Black voters’ ballots are being rejected at more than four times the rate of white voters, according to the state’s numbers.1 Black voters have mailed in 13,747 ballots, with 642 rejected, or 4.7 percent.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/north-carolina-is-already-rejecting-black-voters-mail-in-ballots-more-often-than-white-voters/

Biden voters planning to vote by mail: 53%

Trump voters planning to vote by mail: 12%

https://democraticunderground.com/100214083634

[LisaL]

59. North Carolina allows votes to correct the issue.

So those disqualified can correct their ballot and get it counted.

[pat_k]

61. Only 19 states allow "curing." Almost half notified of error were not "cured" (Nevada stat)

In states with a "cure" procedure, a high percentage are not "cured."

The example given in the article is Nevada: Only 45% notified were successfully cured. Furthermore, only 19 states allow some form of curing.

[LisaL]

64. And how many people would not vote if not given vote by mail option?

First of all, there is a pandemic. Second of all, not everybody is going to be able or willing to wait in a long line, especially during a pandemic.
In OH, there have always been long lines in certain urban areas. How many votes did that prevent?

[pat_k]

69. I'm not saying we shouldn't be mailing in. But we must recognize the problems.

We need to do more than push people to mail in ballots early. We need to be hammering home the need to read ALL directions carefully and triple check that the ballot is completely filled out and error free. That any certifications are included. That all places that need to be signed are signed. We must make every effort to minimize the number of rejections.

Mail in voting is absolutely necessary, but we must recognize the issues it creates.

We need to push states that don't start counting mail ins until election day to change the rules and start count early.

We need to monitor plans and make sure adequate, well-trained, resources are assigned to counting.

We must make sure we have Biden monitors at every stage of the process.

We must push states that do not notify voters of errors and give them the opportunity to cure to do so.

We must push states to make sure they allocate adequate resources for in person voting because, even with increased mail ins, we may still see high turnout on election day and cannot tolerate disenfranchisement by long line.

We shouldn't just be supporting candidates. We need to support organizations working to protect our right to easily cast our vote and have our votes accurately counted.

We should also be monitoring the efforts of our local parties and join in to make sure they are being proactive on every front possible.

We should be contacting voter rights organizations to find out what they are doing and lobby for action in areas that aren't being address.

We don't have much time, but the clock has not yet run out. There are things we can still do to limit systematic disenfranchisement.

https://866ourvote.org/

https://verifiedvoting.org/

https://www.commoncause.org/our-work/voting-and-elections/

https://letamericavote.org/

https://www.spreadthevote.org/

[LisaL]

70. I recognize there are issues with mail in ballots.

But my state, OH, doesn't make it easy to early vote for large urban counties, as there is only one early voting location per county. Doesn't matter how many voters are in the county. Then on election day, many urban areas don't have enough voting sites either, so you see those long lines of people waiting to vote.
So whatever the issues with mail in ballots are, at least mail in ballots allow many more people to vote.

[pat_k]

71. Lines are intolerable. I am SOOO frustrated...

... to see so little action over the past several years.

We've needed high profile lawsuits against jurisdictions that have closed more and more polling places each year; that allocate fewer and fewer resources in "certain areas," that fail to test equipment, guaranteeing break downs. It just hasn't been happening. I am well aware of this and have been posting about it and lobbying various organizations to focus efforts on this. (e.g., a post back in 2016. . . . and many, many, many, since.)

And, as you may note, this is one of the areas I listed in the post you responded to -- one of the things we must do whatever we can about if Biden is to have a hope in hell of winning.

[Ms. Toad]

74. That's a matter of voter education.

The ballots are rejected at a higher rate because (1) people do not read or do not understand the directions, (2) people's signatures have changed and no longer match their ergistration card.

As to the former - pure education. What do you need to do to properly complete an absentee/mail-in ballot; how do you confirm that your ballot has been received and accepted for
tabulation. As to the latter - part self-awareness/part education: people who know their signatures have changed over time and who cannot currently mimic their older signature need to follow the procedure in their state to update their voter registration signature.

[pat_k]

82. We're doing well on "get you vote in" message. Not so well on. . .

. . . the absolutely necessity to read directions carefully and to triple check that any certifications and signatures are completed, and that the ballot is otherwise error free.

I would like to see some commercials that do more than call on people to vote. Those ads should also note that too many ballots are being rejected, so making absolutely sure your mail in ballot has no errors is crucial. This message should be part of EVERY GOTV effort, message, text, call, email.

[Ms. Toad]

83. Agreed.

And state-by-state educational videos that walk you through the process of voting - including verifying that your ballot was received and accepted for tabulation - shouldn't be that hard to make.

[LisaL]

89. North Carolina also makes it harder than most other states because it requires a witness to sign.

OH doesn't require a witness.

[Evergreen Emerald]

58. Washington State has had mail in only for years

Not. One. Problem.

The idea that mail in voting is a problem is a right wing LIE.

[pat_k]

62. Mail in ballot processes hastily put together are problematic

Oregon, Washington, and Colorado have a well-defined process and sufficient resources to manage that process.

States that are cobbling together some form of mail in voting are not so equipped.

I don't agree that we have "fallen for" mail in as a good option, but the high numbers of Biden voters planning to vote by mail (53%) compared to Trump voters (12%), coupled with high rejection rates of mail in ballots (4.7% of ballots mailed in by black voters rejected in North Carolina) makes for a fairly grim picture. Disenfranchisement tactics of various kinds in some states are likely to successfully shave off 3% of Biden votes.

[LisaL]

63. And long lines of people waiting to vote are not problematic?

You don't think that "shaves off" votes?
Not everybody is willing or able to stand in line for hours, especially during a pandemic.

[Blue_true]

60. People are showing up in person in the first four states to vote.

Some told reporters that they had planned to mail in their vote, but distrust of what Trump and DeJoy are doing with the Post Office led them to mask up and take the risk of voting in person.

I believe that Trump has awaken a sleeping giant.

[pat_k]

72. I hope so.

And anywhere there is currently a line needs to be sued to open more early voting sites.

Lines are an intolerable barrier, whether in early voting or on election day.

Time is money and lines are the new poll tax.

Utterly intolerable.

[Blue_true]

73. Virginia is opening more satellite sites on Monday. Such is the response in a Democratic Party led

state, everyone gets a fair chance to vote, even republicans.

[pat_k]

79. Great to hear.

Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2020, 07:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Hopefully, other states with a Democratic secretary of state of state will help reduce disenfranchisement.

Looks like the states to monitor for the most systematic voter suppression are AZ, FL, and GA (Republican SOS). See below.

I remain distrustful of any lead that's under 7 points. Between the typical 3 point margin of error and Republican systematic and individual (not coordinated) malfeasance, I think these states are stealable.

Whether or not that's true, overconfidence suppresses turnout (doesn't matter if I vote, Biden is way ahead). We need to be cautiously optimistic and recognize that polls don't take into account voter suppression (and "the other side" has gotten very good at it over the past couple decades).

We are unlikely to overcome even small Trump leads in Republican controlled states when voter suppression is factored in.

States by Party control. Numbers from averages on fivethirtyeight

On Edit -- the following party assignment of SOS's from Ballotpedia is apparently out of date -- apologies.

NC Biden +1.2 - Split SOS=D
GA Biden +1.4 - R
FL Biden +2.2 - R
AZ Biden +4.8 - R
PA Biden +4.9 - Split SOS=D
NV Biden +5.5 - D
WI Biden +6.7 - Split SOS=D
NH Biden +6.7 - Split SOS=D
MI Biden +7.7 - Split SOS=D
MN Biden +8.8 - Split SOS=D

IA Trump +1.8 - R
OH Trump +1.5 - R
GA Trump +1.4 - R
TX Trump +1.2 -R
AK Trump * - R
AR Trump * R

* not enough polls for fivethirtyeight averaging

[LisaL]

81. And we don't have a democratic SOS in OH.

He is now appealing a ruling to allow more than one drop box per county. That after initially claiming he is allowing only one drop box per county because of OH laws. Now that judge ruled that nothing prohibits having more than one drop box per county, he is appealing that.
Why, if he was claiming he would be just fine with having more than one drop box but for the laws?

[pat_k]

86. Crap. I wonder how many others Ballotpedia got wrong?

As for why. The lies and utter hypocrisy are driven by their terror of holding truly free and fair elections. The rightwingnuts know they would suffer massive losses if they didn't pull out every trick in the book to suppress votes from areas that are democratic -- or even lean democratic.

They know that anything that requires traveling long distances or taking a great deal of time always disproportionately affect people who don't have the luxury of easy access transportation or find it extremely difficult to carve out the time required. Heaven forbid they allow those citizens to elect someone that actually represents their interests.

[Blue_true]

84. Arizona has a Democratic SOS. She won Office in 2018 and has made improvements there. nt

[LisaL]

85. That's good because AZ is likely going for Biden this year.

NT

[Blue_true]

88. That state is interesting.

It has a lot of retired people, rich people in Scottsdale, and big blue university dominated areas (Tempe, Flagstaff, Tucson). But with all that, the issue has been low voter participation among Hispanics, by far Arizona’s largest minority group, with numbers that should have led to more Hispanics in office. Jan Brewer seemed to have lit a fire under Hispanics’ asses with her smirky comments that Hispanics don’t vote (hence in her mind, their issues should take a backseat). Since her term, Phoenix has become blue and Maricopa County has become a place where Democrats can pick up lots of votes (as was demonstrated by Kristen Sinema in 2018). I would not be surprised to see Arizona go the way of Nevada as more Hispanics start exercising their right to vote.

[pat_k]

87. Clearly, the list on Ballotpedia is out of date. Apologies.

[USALiberal]

65. Pure BS! nt

[Hekate]

75. Don't know what you're drinking, but Trump & the GOP have proven they will lie about ANYTHING

Mail-in voting leaves a paper trail, which electronic voting does not. Ever since Bush v Gore, when electronic voting machines were pushed as the Next Big Thing (no hanging chads! ever! plus Dubya’s brother would make a fortune!), DUers have known the best thing is paper. Electronics are laughably easy to hack, and there is abundant evidence of that.

Beyond that, there are a couple of states that have done universal vote-by-mail for many years, without a notable problem.

Also, voters elsewhere find it more convenient, and again, no problems. My husband and I have been doing it for years here in California.

Finally, our overseas military and the diplomatic corps rely on it.

The only missing ingredient this year is a reliable Post Office, which is literally criminal.

[MissMillie]

77. Oh, I don't know

I think a lot of people will still vote in person--or use the ballot drop boxes.

I think it's important for people to have a choice on this. I mean, people are dying out there. And a lot of people have risk factors (there's sooo many risk factors).

He'll throw a hissy fit when he loses, for sure. But he will lose, and this nightmare will be over.

[mcar]

78. I've voted by mail in FL for years

The only reason dotard has made it an issue is because Democrats have increased the #s of people voting by mail.

There's nothing "falling for" here.

[mia]

80. Google "vote by mail". Trump's ad to request a ballot and vote from home is at the top.

He's encouraging MAGATS to vote by mail.

Ad·
vote.donaldjtrump.com/
Avoid The Crowds. Don't Wait Any Longer To Request Your Ballot And Vote From Home. Get You Ballot Now. Vote Republican 2020. Deadline Approaching.
Paid for by DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC.