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Without her, what happens to Roe v Wade? (Original Post) CousinIT Sep 2020 OP
The coat hanger needs blood and tissue on it. Leave nothing to the imagination. Show the horror. Solly Mack Sep 2020 #1
With a bleeding MuseRider Sep 2020 #3
Yes. Show it all. Solly Mack Sep 2020 #7
The rich will find a way. 33taw Sep 2020 #2
NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!' niyad Sep 2020 #4
We need to start arguing the 13th Amendment. CrispyQ Sep 2020 #5
States rights will prevail? pwb Sep 2020 #6

Solly Mack

(90,762 posts)
1. The coat hanger needs blood and tissue on it. Leave nothing to the imagination. Show the horror.
Sun Sep 27, 2020, 09:28 AM
Sep 2020

Make people gag on it.

MuseRider

(34,104 posts)
3. With a bleeding
Sun Sep 27, 2020, 09:44 AM
Sep 2020

body underneath less they think we are showing the horror of only the one part of the procedure.

CrispyQ

(36,453 posts)
5. We need to start arguing the 13th Amendment.
Sun Sep 27, 2020, 09:49 AM
Sep 2020
Abortion and the 13th Amendment

2010
Forced Labor, Revisited: The Thirteenth Amendment and Abortion
Andrew Koppelman
Northwestern University School of Law, akoppelman@law.northwestern.edu

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1031&context=facultyworkingpapers

snip...

I. The basic argument The Thirteenth Amendment reads as follows:

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

My claim is that the amendment is violated by laws that prohibit abortion. When women are compelled to carry and bear children, they are subjected to "involuntary servitude" in violation of the amendment. Abortion prohibitions violate the Amendment's guarantee of personal liberty, because forced pregnancy and childbirth, by compelling the woman to serve the fetus, creates "that control by which the personal service of one man [sic] is disposed of or coerced for another's benefit which is the essence of involuntary servitude."6

Such laws violate the amendment's guarantee of equality, because forcing women to be mothers makes them into a servant caste, a group which, by virtue of a status of birth, is held subject to a special duty to serve others and not themselves.

This argument makes available two responses to the standard defense of such prohibitions, the claim that the fetus is a person. The first is that even if this is so, its right to the continued aid of the woman does not follow. As Judith Jarvis Thomson observes, "having a right to life does not guarantee having either a right to be given the use of or a right to be allowed continued use of another person's body -- even if one needs it for life itself."7

Giving fetuses a legal right to the continued use of their mothers' bodies would be precisely what the Thirteenth Amendment forbids. The second response is that since abortion prohibitions infringe on the fundamental right to be free of involuntary servitude, the burden is on the state to show that the violation of this right is justified. Since the thesis that the fetus is, or should at least be considered, a person seems impossible to prove (or to refute), this is a burden that the state cannot carry. If we are not certain that the fetus is a person, then the mere possibility that it might be is not enough to justify violating women's Thirteenth Amendment rights by forcing them to be mothers.





Parents can't be compelled to donate their organs to their child, even to save the child's life. Why does a fetus have more claim on a woman's organs than her child who has been born?

THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION A WOMAN CAN MAKE ISN'T YOURS.
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