Bicycle vs. Pedestrian

[AtomicKitten]

Hello DU. I am writing this to share something that happened to me recently.

A couple weeks back I arrived early to pick up my son from school. My dog, Seven, was getting kind of squirrely in the car, so I took her out on a leash. I was crossing the street in a crosswalk at a stop sign and was nearly to the other side crossing before the last lane of cars, with the last one obscuring my vision with dark tinted windows. As I came around the car I saw a bicyclist in the bike lane riding like his hair was on fire, clearly not intending to stop at the stop sign ... and he didn't. I yanked the leash to pull Seven back but she wouldn't budge, so I threw myself between her and the bicyclist. Seven weighs only 65 lbs and I honestly think the impact would have seriously injured her ... or worse. He hit me instead leaning over Seven, breaking three of my posterior ribs. I was hospitalized for 2 days on IV narcotics and then released. It still hurts with every breath I take, and coughing almost makes me pass out.

I don't understand why bicyclists for the most part don't obey traffic signs and signals as they are supposed to do. I did some research and found articles of bicyclists actually killing pedestrians, so I feel somewhat relieved and I suppose lucky in that regard. I wish there was some way to impart these statistics to bicyclists so they'd understand why laws governing traffic are so important.

So, what'd I miss?

[loli phabay]

1. making the cyclist pay for your medical costs for one

If he didnt stop at the sign or give way to a pedestrian then hes at fault and should pay. Hope you feel better.

[AtomicKitten]

10. fortunately I'm covered by Healthy SF

He was a college-age kid. I'm hoping his crumpled bicycle will remind him to share the road thoughtfully and carefully.

[CreekDog]

72. I'm in SF and frustrated with cyclists like you describe

I think most of them aren't like this, but the proportion who ride aggressively is definitely up in this city in the past few years.

Sometimes it does take some effort to avoid being hit. That's bad. It's a bike, there should be practically no threat.

Cars are still more worrisome to me in downtown SF than bikes, but unlike years ago, I really do have to worry about cyclists now and that's new.

And don't get me started about the critical massers who surrounded a car one evening. I asked them if they were detaining the people in the car and if they were, I offered to call the police to come to take over. The massers bolted.

Not a fan.

[orpupilofnature57]

138. I have a Friend the was a messenger in SF

he knows he owes them his life, he lives back here in the sticks of upstate NY but heaven help anyone that speaks against the people of SF, as he realizes the obnoxious bastard he was .

[orpupilofnature57]

2. I'm 55 I ride my bike everyday and

" for the ALL part " I obey the law , just like it sounds like you obey leash laws, something some dog owners ignore,I believe between Dog, Bike or pedestrian , pedestrian wins.

[loli phabay]

3. yup even the dog wins if there is a stop sign

My personal peave is the cyclist gangs on rural roads going uphill worse than caravans.

[orpupilofnature57]

6. They usurp the road by not riding inside

the white line, something any cyclist should observe, along with Traffic signs . Part & Parcel with that " Gang " or Franchised arrogance when people have that buffer of Numbers, Kind of like a Beagle by himself as opposed to being in a pack.

[CreekDog]

78. I think a bicycle has the right to use the full lane, esp. with no bike lane

i think it's dangerous for the rider to try to squeeze in the narrow space between parked cars and a lane of moving traffic. i'd rather them ride in the middle of the lane and i can pass them on the left in the adjacent lane.

my issues with cyclists are when they are on the sidewalk or among pedestrians and do careless or reckless things, but that is not most bikers.

[wtmusic]

92. Laws differ from state to state

but in CA a cyclist has to stay as far to the right as "practicable" except in certain situations (turning left, avoiding hazards, passing other riders, if you are keeping up with the speed of traffic, or if there is a single lane which makes riding side-by-side with cars unsafe).

[WinkyDink]

98. Bicyclists are not that easy to discern, in a car lane.

[CreekDog]

100. what the law says trumps that

[Warren Stupidity]

135. bullshit.

The bicyclist does you a courtesy by hugging the frequently dangerous edge of the road. Bicycles in most states are governed by the same road rules as cars, except they are banned from limited access highways.

here is a typical state synopsis of road rules for bicycles:

Bicycle riders on public roads have the same rights and responsibilities as motorists, and are subject to the same rules and regulations. Refer to the California Driver Handbook to become familiar with these rules.
Motorists must look carefully for bicyclists before turning left or right, merging into bicycle lanes, and opening doors next to moving traffic. Respect the right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share the road with you.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffdl37.htm

[orpupilofnature57]

137. I live in upstate NY and a cyclists would be

dead if they listened to you, the law of Physics outweighs Californian narcissistic fibrosis laws of la la pseudo -cities.

[Warren Stupidity]

139. that is a different argument from "required to ride inside the white line".

In all states I know of, there is no such law.

[orpupilofnature57]

140. Also different, but correct the law of probability

and in NY that is considered ( Not Required by law ) to be the walking ,running or biking lane, the left of the white line that cars also park on . What people forget the reason we have/need trails is that the first function of a street ,road or highway is to transport people, goods and services by MOTORIZED vehicles.

[PavePusher]

150. Absolutely wrong, of course.

But feel free to flout reality and the law.

[orpupilofnature57]

152. Any details there or just a BLERT ?

[wtmusic]

141. Not true, although these "fast facts" would tend to give that impression.

Looking at the vehicle code we find that bicycles do not have the "same rights...as motorists" and are required, in most circumstances, to stay right:

"21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within thelane.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable."

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=21001-22000&file=21200-21212

Lots of other exceptions to this "same rights" claim, about which I've nearly seen fistfights break out.

[CrispyQ]

4. The cyclists I deal with as a ped, are as rude to peds as car drivers are to them.

I walk on a ped/bike path that goes under a highway AND it's on a curve. I've had several near misses with bikers racing through the underpass without any concern that peds might be there. I don't go that way anymore.


I'm sorry either of you were hurt, but you are right, poor Seven would have been seriously injured. Wishing you a speedy recovery!

[orpupilofnature57]

8. I have no tolerance for assholes who choose

to train for the olympics amid a recreational path, once again pedestrians have the right of way .

[Whiskeytide]

29. Question for you or anyone else who might know...

I ride a trail bike on dirt trails in a park near my house. To get to the dirt trails, I have to travel a sidewalk pedestrian/walking path for about a mile, and I come up behind a lot of walkers and joggers.

What is the proper etiquette/rule for this? I have found that if I quietly glide by them, it sometimes startles them, but we're all safe because I can see them and I'm by them before they can react. If I announce my presence, I get varied reactions, sometimes actually causing a near collision. If I say something like "passing on your right", I can't be sure if they interpret it as "passing - get to your right" or "I'm about to pass on your right". Almost without fail, saying anything usually prompts a reaction from them, and then things become unpredictable.

I have had a friendly argument with a jogger out there who says I have to announce myself. I understand his position, but he also says he understands mine. We really don't have an answer

I'm not hauling ass, just cruising until I get to the trails where I get my workout. Sometimes I just leave the concrete altogether, but the ground on either side is extremely rough, and the sidewalk is usually raised 5 to 6 inches, and it can be dicey getting back up on it.

What's your take?

[Gidney N Cloyd]

32. I always announce I'm passing -- on their left-- EXCEPT often when passing a little kid.

Way too often a little kid hears "passing on your left"and instinctively whips around to his left to see who said it (or if he's on a little bike) drifts to the left and into my path. Of course the parents are universally fucking useless. So with kids it usually seems best to time things just right so I can slow down and pass a little kid without saying anything.

[Trailrider1951]

33. I was taught by my bike club to always let your presence be known to any pedestrian

that you overtake with his/her back to you. You either ring your little bell, or say "on your left" loud enough for them to hear your if your are 10 or so feet behind them, and then always pass on the left, never on the right. The only exceptions to this are little kids, either on foot or on bikes. Always give them a warning, slow down to a crawl and give them a wide berth, as they are unpredictable. Hope this helps.

[Whiskeytide]

35. Thanks to you and Gidney

... I'll do just that.

[frylock]

41. i always announce "on your left"

not too loudly so that i don't startle anyone.

[nadine_mn]

47. Any kind of announcement I think is good

I walk my dogs on a mult-purpose trail and sometimes I am pretty engrossed in making sure they are walking well and not eating random litter or dog poop. Quiet bikers can scare the crap out of us and a startled large dog is not a good thing.

I usually just step off the path when I see someone coming and do the same when someone is coming up behind... I just like to know someone is behind me so I can move.

[orpupilofnature57]

67. I jog on a bike path a man told me I had no

Business on, my Fault I misjudged how far back he was and did cut him off, he waited for me at the end of the path and read me the riot act, you might say I was cured of my " I'm a pedestrian " arrogance, I'm a jogger with an ipod, did I mention nI can't run without my ipod ? When jogging without an ipod the burden is on you to look behind periodically, subject to the amount of traffic on that trail, that's how I do it now.

[a la izquierda]

91. Yep, you need to pay attention to the path.

I wrecked because a runner decided to whip around right as I was passing (on the left, and having yelled it because I saw the headphone wires). To avoid hitting the jogger, I crashed down an embankment and almost broke my collarbone.

[orpupilofnature57]

99. I'm saved really, sorry about your crash

[wtmusic]

89. You really should never pass on the right

and just say "On your left," loud enough to hear.

It's anti-intuitive and asking for trouble.

[frylock]

129. i ride with a bear bell..

it's good for giving both hikers and other riders a heads-up.

[AtomicKitten]

11. thanks, I'm getting there

[taught_me_patience]

5. Time for the bicycle shit parade

to show up. It's weirdly popular here on DU.

[loli phabay]

9. lol whats not to hate.

[Whovian]

17. I ride on two wheels as well and have been irritated by many bicyclists in the area as well.

It seems they feel they are ten feet tall and bullet proof as they ride a curvy road during rush hour for their daily cardio workout. It seems as if they feel they have all the rights of the byways and highways with none of the restrictions or penalties.

I've been guilty of it myself in my younger years. I worked for a great bike shop that would let its employees use "loaners" and got to ride some of the greatest bikes of the day. We were green, being healthy and so much better than anyone else in a car or other fuel burning vehicle. And NO TICKETS. And we would speed as we were in an area with mountains and hills and would often pass cars on the way back down. I was and idiot. There were no bike helmets in the day.

Today I ride a scooter. 50MPG, 650cc and it has carried me all over the East coast. It's the only vehicle I own. I'm too darned old to peddle a bike any more. But I ride as if every other vehicle on the road with me is out to kill me so not only do I observe every stop and yield sign, I also am very courteous to every other driver out there because if I hack the wrong one off they can ruin my day very easily. I wish more bicyclists would adopt the same attitude. It could save their lives and stop injuries as described in the original post.

[obamanut2012]

23. In most states, the bike has a right to the entire lane

Most cyclists who ride for commuting and serious training obey all the laws. However, many of those sharing the road with them often believe they have no right to be on the road. They do, even during rush hour. Nor do many drivers know that bikes have the same rights as cars do.

650cc is not a scooter in my state, it's considered a motorcycle, and has to be plated and the driver licensed.

[Whovian]

48. Mine is licensed, tagged and will easily do 100 mph+

It's not like what we used to think of as a scooter. Plus I have an designation on my DL that allows me to ride it. It can eat many Harley's for breakfast which is sometimes quite fun.

The one downside is that it weighs in over 600# and the way it is designed is it might trap your foot under it if you drop it in a slow curve trapping your foot underneath with no way to extricate yourself without help. Please don't ask me how I know this.

[Berlum]

102. Me, too. I ride my bike every day

And everyday I am amazed, or endangered, by a-hole bike riders (invariably men) who pay no freaking attention whatsoever to the normal rules of traffic or courtesy.

It's as if they are wanting to create problems. And they are sadly far too often successful.

[obamanut2012]

21. It really is

[CreekDog]

75. I like cycling and am glad people do it, I've defended it on DU for years...BUT

there are some patterns that are becoming more widespread and those are a danger to pedestrians.

and that's what's being criticized here.

i guess the OP was wrong in saying they all do this, though i would argue a majority blow through stoplights when they are able to --though i think most of the time it's safe and don't have an issue when they do it safely.

i have an issue when they blow the light and nearly hit me in the crosswalk.

and that's getting more frequent.

[frylock]

79. very reasoned post

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

83. There's a shit parade of bicyclists?

[frazzled]

7. You didn't miss a thing (except your ribs)

I hope you heal quickly. Posterior ribs are ouchier, I think, than anterior (unless you like to sleep fully on your stomach, I guess). Keep breathing, though, even if it hurts: it will help place the ribs.

I, too, am concerned about bicyclists not obeying traffic markers, even though I am a very big advocate of cycling (my husband rides 100 miles a week). Especially in urban environments, it just doesn't work unless everybody—cars, bicycles, pedestrians—obey the laws equally and all at once.

We live a block from a new, experimental protected bike lane route, and let me tell you, it's scary. Visibility of bicycles traveling in your direction is obscured by the cars parked in the outer lanes, so when you make a right turn, there is always the fear of hitting a speeding bicyclist who doesn't stop at the sign (and virtually NONE do). A driver died there a few weeks ago when his car, making a right turn, hit a train track post near the intersection. No one seems to have witnessed it, and there has been no formal explanation. I've wondered whether he swerved to avoid a bicycle coming through and hit the post.

I don't know what to do about any of this except to try to get your local law enforcement agency to agree to post itself near intersections such as the one you crossed to ticket bicyclists who don't stop. Done for a week or so, it could send the message that laws will be enforced. (Check the Rules of the Road for your state: at least in mine, bicycles are required to obey all traffic signals and signs; it just is rarely enforced.)

[AtomicKitten]

13. I'd be terrified riding a bike here in SF.

My only experience with bike-riding was in So Cal. I rode the bike path from Hermosa Beach all the way up to Santa Monica and back every weekend with no worries. Nothing like the crazy traffic here in SF.

Ironically I lost points on my last driver's test for not getting in the turn lane soon enough, yielding to bicyclists. Go figure.

[rfranklin]

12. I am a bike rider and sometimes I wil glide through stop signs or red lights...

but I always check first for traffic, pedestrians and animals. Cyclists who think that they are somehow more privileged because they are engaged in exercise are really aggravating and dangerous. Car drivers who think of cyclists (and joggers) as impediments to their progress and deserving to be brushed back off the shoulder by the mighty SUV are also aggravating and dangerous. It is a matter of attitude and consideration for your fellow citizens and there is a certain percentage of the population who don't give a crap.

[loli phabay]

15. as a suv driver i also glide through stop signs and red lights

I always check for others but its not my fault if one slips by me.

[frylock]

52. how long you been driving strawmen?

[loli phabay]

57. only at halloween. not a strawman just using the logic that cyclists can break the law

So why not me in my suv after all we both have the same rules of the road.

[frylock]

80. i promise you that you break the law every time you get behind the wheel..

can you honestly state that you drive at or below the posted speed limit?

[loli phabay]

87. off course i do everyone does

Difference is i know it and take the ticket cyclist and not all of them dont even pretend to obey the rules and seem to believe they are immune to those rules.

[WinkyDink]

101. Haha. I saw what you did there.

[rfranklin]

116. The car (or SUV) is most likely to be cause of accident with a bicycle...

While there is a public perception that cyclists are usually the cause of accidents between cars and bikes, an analysis of Toronto police collision reports shows otherwise: The most common type of crash in this study involved a motorist entering an intersection and either failing to stop properly or proceeding before it was safe to do so. The second most common crash type involved a motorist overtaking unsafely. The third involved a motorist opening a door onto an oncoming cyclist. The study concluded that cyclists are the cause of less than 10 per cent of bike-car accidents in this study.

http://www.treehugger.com/bikes/cyclists-cause-less-than-10-of-bikecar-accidents.html

Data showed that cars are four times more likely to sideswipe a bicycle than vice versa

http://www.edgarsnyder.com/bicycle/bicycle-statistics.html

[loli phabay]

118. not if it involves a cyclist blowing a stop sign and hitting a pedestrian

Thats my whole point if i in my suv would be considered an ass running a light or stop sign then so should a cyclist. For some reason some people think its okay to blow the sign on a bike but not a car.

[hfojvt]

131. my bicycle with rider weighs perhaps 190 pounds

and is going about 10 mph. It is also a mere 25 inches wide and about 70 inches long, making it much easier to dodge than the average SUV which is much more massive and usually going much faster.

I would think that most people would be aware of such distinctions that 4,000 >> (is much greater than) >> 190.

But I could be wrong.

[rfranklin]

134. There you go again, quoting Newton and the laws of physics...

You really think science can prove anything?

[loli phabay]

146. i think you need to read again. my point was my suv wasnt involved

It was about specific cycle and pedestrian accidents.

[hfojvt]

149. no, the mass and the force is the point

Bicyclists generally think it is okay for bicycles to run stop signs because 99.999% of the time they do it, it does not hurt anybody.

Nor is there much potential for people to get hurt, at least not if you are doing it right.

Doing it right means you need to slow down just in case you need to stop. When you have determined that you do not, then you can speed back up.

The idiot in this particular story was clearly going too fast and did not have good visibility. But, unlike a car or SUV driver in the same circumstance, he also paid a price. A price nobody seems to care about. It was mentioned that his bike was "crumpled". I am guessing that he was also thrown to the ground and suffered some contusions and abrasions.

In the same circumstance with a motor vehicle, you would have a dead (or very badly injured) pedestrian and a dead (or very badly injured) dog and a driver and vehicle suffering no damage at all. Except for the damage that the justice system would inflict on said driver.

And THAT, is why it is okay for bicycles to run stop signs and also not okay for SUVs to do the same.

[AtomicKitten]

16. I honestly have no problem with buzzing

... a light or stop sign if you have a clear view.

I believe that maneuver has been dubbed a California roll

There were cars parked on the other side of the bike lane and I'd be scared to death somebody would unknowingly open their car door wide and - boom.

[obamanut2012]

25. In some areas, it's legal for bikes to do this

[Logical]

14. I very seldom see bike obey traffic lights/signs if there no traffic coming. Stupid.

[AtomicKitten]

19. I have some sympathy for bike riders when they are on an incline.

They have to really dig into their toe clips to proceed after a dead stop. If they have a clear view and there is no impediment, I'm okay with them buzzing a light/stop sign in that situation.

[bluestate10]

56. You are wrong.

I have enough experience to know. Most cyclists that ride bikes enough should have clip-less pedals, they are infinitely more efficient than toe clips. Th pedals and shoes don't costs so much that they can't be acquired.

Now to challenge you claim. First from the description of the accident, the cyclist that hit the lady was either on flat road or going downhill. In both situations, the cyclist have a responsibility to pay attention for pedestrians or animals.

No to challenge you incline claim. The reason why bicycles have gears is so a cyclist can gear down to decrease resistance going up a hill. A cyclist that is riding properly stops at stop signs on inclines. A simple push off into the clip-less pedals will get the cyclist restarted when traffic is flowing again.

[Logical]

61. Shit, then why do cars stop?

[CreekDog]

85. because they are motorized and about 400 times heavier

but that's just logical.

[Logical]

88. LOL, you said if there was no traffic around it would not matter. So why does the size matter?

[CreekDog]

93. what's the point of arguing with straw men?

in two different, unrelated threads that's what you've asked me to do and it's ridiculous.

[frylock]

53. if there's no traffic, then what's the harm?

should i stop at a rural stop sign at 3 in the am with zero cars for miles around just because it's "the law?"

[Logical]

60. Hell, then why do cars stop? Either you want to be treated like a car or not. Which is it?

[frylock]

77. you're asking the wrong person..

98% of my riding takes place on singletrack and fire roads. the rare occasion that i do ride on the streets is usually a beer cruise along the waterfront down to point loma seafoods, in which case i stick to the sidewalks and bike/pedestrian paths. so no, in my personal experience i do not want to be treated like a car.

[WilliamPitt]

18. There are two kinds of people who ride bikes

1. The kind that treats it as if they were driving a car, obeys all traffic rules, keeps their heads on a swivel, wears a helmet, and doesn't hurt anyone.

2. Assholes.

I ride my bike everywhere in downtown Boston. Doing it like I'm in a car - obey lights and signs, stay on the right side of the road, watch out for pedestrians - is why I still have all my parts in working order, and haven't hurt anyone else.

[AtomicKitten]

24. You sound like a responsible rider who values his well-being.

I hope this kid's crumpled bike will make him think twice about this kind of smooth move in the future. I'm mostly glad my dog wasn't hurt. That would have been unbearable.

[obamanut2012]

26. The same thing holds for car drivers

And truck drivers, and motorcyclists, and scooterers, and pedestrians.

[WilliamPitt]

27. Also known as

common sense.

I think, with bikes, the "Wheeeeeee!!!" factor interferes with that aforementioned sense.

[DaveHee]

31. Roger That

Ride responsibly and predictably.
my three 'Cs'
obey traffic rules, be courteous, careful and considerate,
'nuff said

Old cyclist and hope to stay that way!

Daif!

[frylock]

54. nonsense..

there's a third type of rider who is considerate of others and will roll a stop sign if there's NO traffic (vehicular or pedestrian) with caution.

[wtmusic]

74. +1

which, in reality, is most of us.

[frylock]

81. yep..

i really do tire of the pile on because of a few inconsiderate a-holes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Yup

[hfojvt]

132. when I am driving a car

I do not have to look over my shoulder when making a left turn to make sure a much faster and much more massive car isn't going to splatter me on the pavement.

So I cannot imagine riding a bike like I was driving a car.

Furthermore in my experience most car drivers do not obey all traffic rules, to wit
1. they typically speed
2. they often do not use their turn signals
3. they do not turn on their headlights when using wipers as required by law
4. they almost never stop in front of a stop sign but usually roll half a car length through it, leaving the cyclist with the right of way wondering if he is going to die or needs to slam on his brakes.

I ride my bike most places, wearing no helmet, and ignoring stop signs when no traffic is coming (in smaller cities this happens a lot, probably unlike Boston).

However much of an a$$hole I am, I too have all my parts in working order (well, except perhaps for my brain, the jury is split on that (10-2 IS a split, right?)) and I have not hurt anyone else.

Way back when I was going to the University in 1982 or so, somebody told me that Americans will jaywalk against red lights whereas Germans will obediently wait for the light to change. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of that, but now I think, whenever I jaywalk "I am an American!!"

Because to be an American means you realize that laws are made for people and not people for laws. Thus it is okay, a Kantian absolute in fact, to violate a law when doing so causes no harm to anyone else.

Let freedom ring.

[yellowcanine]

20. Many cyclists also don't realize pedestrians can't hear them coming from the rear.

As I approach a pedestrian from the rear on my bike I announce my presence by saying "on your left" just before I overtake them. Problem is some pedestrians walk with headphones. Then I use my whistle and just give a little chirp.

[AtomicKitten]

44. It's really chaotic around SFSU.

I'm constantly amazed at how many drivers don't yield to pedestrians in sidewalks.

[frylock]

58. some pedestrians will also wander around the path..

not realizing or caring that other folks are using the path. oftentimes they become annoyed when you make an attempt to pass. there's also the stroller brigade types i deal with when pedalling around the lake in my neighborhood. there will be 3-4 of them, all walking side-by-side setting up a "picket line" and making it impossible to pass.

[WinkyDink]

104. "Wander[ing]" happens to be a PERQUISITE of walking! Are we all in the Army now??

[yellowcanine]

106. Yes but just be aware of who is sharing the path.

All we ask.

[frylock]

123. of course not, but is it too much to ask that a walker not take up 2/3 of a 20' wide path?

I'm not asking for a regimented march, but don't look at me like I'm the asshole when I have to maneuver around you, staggering about the path with your ipod.

[WinkyDink]

103. "just before I overtake them"--What?! Don't you know that can spook a person to jump the WRONG way??

And why would you be "approach[ing] a pedestrian" anyway?

[yellowcanine]

107. Far enough back, wide berth, and regular voice will not spook them. Hasn't happened yet so must

be doing something right, thank you. I "approach them" because they are walking more slowly than I am riding so I catch up with them.

[frylock]

125. i've had people practically jump out of their skin by calling out "on your left"

and it's not like i'm shouting it. i always marvel, wondering where the eff do you think you are?! pay attention ffs!

[frylock]

126. are you suggesting that a cyclist should just slow down to the speed of the pedestrian..

and not pass. for reals?!

[sakabatou]

22. I've almost been hit by other cyclists on my bike

They blow through stop signs, ride on the wrong side of the road (by the cycle lane) or don't slow down.

[hobbit709]

30. I once watched two idiots run into each other, they both ran the stop signs.

One was coming down the one street with a slight slope and the other was coming down the cross street, also on a slope.
They both ran their stop signs and found each other in the middle of the intersection. When the cops showed up, the idiots were in the middle of a screaming match.
When the cops asked what happened, I walked up and said that I saw the whole thing. "They both ran the stop sign and found each other"
The cop laughed and ended up giving both of them a citation.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

38. Me, too. And I've seen a couple ugly collisions close up.

[AtomicKitten]

46. I recall making a left turn into a parking lot a while back.

A bicyclist tapped on my car window telling me I almost hit him. Turns out he was riding on the wrong side of the street and quite frankly it didn't even occur to me to look in that direction. I do it now after that incident but it made me realize people are capable of doing some pretty dumb things.

[sakabatou]

82. If I am on the wrong side, I usually go on the sidewalk

[MicaelS]

28. Hiring a lawyer to take him to the cleaners.

The only way you teach some people is to hit them where it counts, in the pocketbook.

In other words SUE THE BASTARD!

Call a personal injury lawyer TODAY. Don't let one more day go by before you do. You might suffer from lifelong pain and debilitation from this.

[AtomicKitten]

39. My medical costs are covered but I've lost time off work.

Unfortunately I'm paid on productivity (medical transcription) and am barely alive financially. Still after a year unemployed, I'm glad to have the job.

The guy who ran into me is a college-age kid without resources, so I doubt anything is recoverable.

[bigwillq]

34. certain bicyclists are just awful

just like certain drivers.

The kids that ride bikes around the Yale campus are the worst.


Hope you feel better. :hug;

[AtomicKitten]

40. thank you

[XemaSab]

36. I've heard before that half of all bicyclist deaths were the fault of the bicyclist who died

I can totally believe it.

[AtomicKitten]

45. When I lived in the Santa Cruz area, I recall a bicyclist

who was killed because he flew down the hill onto a big street (Soquel Ave) right into traffic. It made me wonder if he did that often, if he was playing his version of Russian Roulette, or what.

[wtmusic]

73. For cyclists older than fourteen

drivers are usually at fault. Younger than fourteen, the opposite is true.

[hedgehog]

37. Was the real problem the car with dark tinted windows -

although when I drive or ride - I don't enter a lane assuming no traffic is coming

[AtomicKitten]

43. It sure would have helped had that last car's windows not been tinted.

It would have bought me a second or two, certainly more than the nanosecond I had.

Still I'm glad I had the frame of mind to throw myself between him and my dog. I'll recover from the broken ribs but I would not have recovered from a broken heart if something horrible happened to my girl.

[bluestate10]

42. As a pedestrian crossing a road properly, you have right of way.

You could sue the cyclist for damages and most likely win. The cyclist and others that have hit pedestrians hard enough to badly injure or kill the pedestrian are jerks, they would be jerks regardless of the mode of transportation. One of the unfortunate issues with cyclist and many know this, is if a accident happens between a cyclist and an automobile, insurance companies will cradle and settle with the cyclist for in some cases large amounts of money rather than fight the case and risk a larger amount being paid. That dynamic plays out regardless of whether the cyclist is in the wrong.

[AtomicKitten]

49. Thanks to all. I'm signing out to get some work done.

Cheers.

[nadine_mn]

50. I am so sorry you got hurt!

I walk my dogs mainly at night - I am just sick of traffic - ped, cyclists and auto.

Glad to hear you and your dog are doing better!

[central scrutinizer]

51. Every mode of transportation has people who will irritate somebody using the same or different mode

I rarely use a car and use my bicycle for commuting to work, shopping, exercise, running errands. I try to always follow traffic laws, although I do roll through stop signs if there is no one coming. Pretty much every day there are drivers who endanger me by wandering into the bike lanes while using their cell phones or using the bike lane as a right turn lane. The actual assholes who throw stuff at you or drive close while encouraging their pitbull to lunge at you are very few. (Of course my bike has Union Yes and No Blood for Oil stickers on the fenders so maybe they are FR regulars.) The bike lane is often full of broken glass from assholes in cars who just drop shit out of their cars.

Cyclists who run stop lights, ride on sidewalks are jerks who make it harder on cyclists like me. I really dislike the trick riders on BMXs with their headphones turned up to ear bleed levels. Zigging and zagging and totally oblivious to anybody else. I am traveling a lot faster than them and just want to pass, but they can't hear anything.

Most of my commute ride is on multi-use paths. Riding in every morning around 6AM is OK because I am the only one out there. When I do encounter joggers or cyclists coming my way, I put my hand over my headlight because it is very bright But going home at 5, if the weather is nice, is sometimes annoying. All I want to do is get home but then you come up behind 4 joggers, running abreast, all using iPods who can't hear your bell so you have to yell at them then they give you a dirty look. Share the path, bozos.

You just have to show some respect to others, but don't expect reciprocal treatment from everybody. The actual assholes are a very small number. Most are just ignorant or inattentive.

[HopeHoops]

55. Dorky bike shorts are a major warning sign. Bikes MUST follow the laws of the road,...

... which includes riding in the same direction as traffic, yielding to pedestrians, following all road signs and signals, and not being a fucking dickhead. As soon as you see dorky bike shorts, keep your guard up. I'm sorry, (and a long-time bike rider), but the "I'm superior because I've got dorky bike shorts" assholes just don't give a shit. They flip off cars following the rules of the road while they aren't. They ride on the white line when there's plenty of room on the shoulder. The only way to get cockier is if your last name is "Romney".

[WI_DEM]

143. LOL! "dorky bike shorts' I know exactly what you're talking about.

[HopeHoops]

144. Yeah, and it was a Dilbert cartoon - "Bike seats are uncomfortable. Solution? Dorky bike shorts."

[wtmusic]

145. Assholes give dorky bike shorts a bad name

They're actually very comfortable, and if you ride a lot anything else looks pretty dorky.

[HopeHoops]

147. I like early '70s era basketball shorts. They're light and allow free movement.

And yes, I still have some, and yes, they're from that particular era.

Still, the dorky bike shorts riders give bicyclists a bad reputation because of their arrogance. To the one, they act like they own the road. There are unwritten rules for bicycle courtesy and among them is "FOLLOW THE FUCKING RULES OF THE ROAD!", which they rarely do. Sorry to generalize here, but that's been a long-running experience, and as a bike rider I'm offended by their behavior. I've pointed that out to a few and just got a "fuck off, dude" type of response from them. If we're going to be respected as part of traffic, we have to go by the rules of the road. Running red lights and stop signs doesn't qualify for that.

[wtmusic]

148. Excuse me, but my shorts are extremely courteous.

I get you, I'm somewhat of a pariah in the club I ride with because I tend to stick up for drivers' and pedestrians' rights.

[HopeHoops]

151. Yeah, I'll give you the pariah part, but ALSO APPLAUD YOU!!!

The ones who ignore the law are just putting us all in danger. It's bad enough as it is, especially on roads with no shoulder. It's not OUR fault that there's no shoulder!!!

Yes, I know the "dorky bike shorts" is stereotyping, but it's been a long-running observation. Not so much in the "everyone who wears them" department, but more in the "when you see a problem, that's what they're wearing" territory. Then again, I put velcro leg straps around my jeans to keep the bottoms out of the gears (and yes, I've gotten them stuck that way many times). The leg straps look pretty dorky too.

[Aerows]

59. You should see what it is like when you are out rollerblading

I've been sent face first in the dirt. I wear protective equipment, though, and that's what it is for.

[Egalitarian Thug]

62. Like drivers, bicyclists here are American and therefore, mostly assholes. I'm very sorry to hear

of your injury, ribs are, IMO, the worst because, as you now know, there is no relief from the pain except to drug yourself into unconsciousness. Sitting, standing, lying, breathing, coughing, laughing, it just keeps hurting.

I would sue the jerk, but then, I'm a thug... now.

[frylock]

63. question for all the rule of law types posting in this thread..

can you honestly state that you have never EVER exceeded the posted speed limit while driving? how is that any different than a cyclist rolling thru a stop when nobody is effected? when i hear people make such complaints, it comes across as sour grapes to me. "why should i have to stop at the sign if the cyclist isn't?" tell you what; get your fat ass out of the car and into the saddle and you too can afford that luxury.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. To paraphrase a local cop at Starbucks

because the rules of the road apply to you too!

We were having that discussion, me and another rider, who was insisting that since there is no licence I was smoking weed... the cop, in uniform and everything, corrected him.

[NutmegYankee]

69. speeding is nowhere near the problem of running traffic control signs.

Almost all drivers go above the posted speed limit, but accidents caused by this are rare. Going 10 mph over a posted speed doesn't cause a rear end accident, following too closely does. If you drive a well made and well maintained car, it will likely handle 10 mph over just fine with minimal "G" forces in turns and not lose control. Now most driver only exceed by about 5-10 mph, so the effect is minor.

On the other hand, running a stop sign or stoplight is very likely to have a catastrophic effect.

[frylock]

84. but running a stop sign when no other vehicles or pedestrians are present..

is nothing more than running a stop sign when no other vehicles or pedestrians are present. no harm, no foul. and BTW, speeding is one of the leading causes of death in traffic fatalities.

[NutmegYankee]

96. Driving a car is the leading cause of death in traffic fatalities.

I joke, but speeding (just exceeding the fake maximums on signs) does not cause accidents. Going too fast for road conditions (there is a big difference), following too closely, and inattention are the leading causes of accidents.

The problem with running a stop sign is that you don't have enough time to ensure that someone isn't coming at you from either lane. In right turns, people often forget to look right when rolling, hitting pedestrians and cyclists. And running red lights are a known killer.

[lumberjack_jeff]

90. The person on the bike in the OP didn't "roll" through the sign

... and somebody was (a)ffected.

I, fat ass and all, would bring pain and consternation to any bike rider who ran over my wife in a crosswalk.

[frylock]

95. yes, the cyclist in that instance was an asshole..

this post is to address the "all cyclists are assholes" crowd that invariably weigh in on these threads.

[lumberjack_jeff]

105. I get that toe clips make long term stops awkward.

But I don't think slowing to a near-stop at every stop sign is too big a cross to bear.

FWIW, I only see lots of bicyclists when I'm in Olympia, and (except for the kids who don't know better) they generally ride sensibly and I admire/envy them. The nearest *anything* is 10 miles from my house, and the only reasons I have for going anywhere is to deliver someone or something or to pick up someone or something... so I take a car.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

94. I can honestly say that I don't run stop signs on my cycle or

while I am in my car. There have been a few times where summer growth has obscured a stop sign, and I have cursed the town DPW for not trimming the verge.

There are times where I have exceeded the speed limit, coming into a residential area and have slowed down accordingly, bu that is not the same as willfully ignoring crosswalks and stop signs.

I have been at enough enough red lights and stop signs, on cycle or in auto, where other riders have blown through it without care, and it annoys me.

"how is that any different than a cyclist rolling thru a stop when nobody is effected?"

It's the law that vehicles obey the rules of the road.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. First glad you are out of the hospital

Don't know if they told you, but when you need to cough, hug a pillow, it helps, since it stabilizes the ribs. Not that the pain will completely go away, but it should help.

Second... let me guess, our bicyclist friend had fancy riding gear... this is an observation locally, the fancier the riding gear and the bike, the less likely they are to obey the rules.

Local cops at times go on ticketing sprees, when they are not chasing the radio. They seem NOT to realize that the same traffic laws that apply to me behind the wheel, apply to me when I get on the bike to ride to Starbucks.

Yup, I have had these talks to bike riders, and they argue with me that since they don't need licences...I live at a road where we have a bike vs vehicle at least once a month, why? Idiots blow through the red light regularly.

[kentauros]

122. I really wish this site had a pamphlet option for printing:

http://bicyclesafe.com/

Because it's one of the best sites (or anything) I've seen on bike-safety. All of the issues people have brought up in this thread are covered and why it's best not to ride that way.

I have wondered if having a license for bicycles would help in some way. My thought on doing that would be mostly to use the fees for building and maintaining bike-only paths. If cities would just do a little eminent domain on pipeline and power rights-of-way, they'd have a huge network of bike-only paths available for people to get all around some cities (Houston is a good example of putting this idea to use.)

I'd be very happy to have to pass a safety test and all just to have a license to use my bike on the roads. I'd feel safer knowing that at least the assholes have had to go through the same tests, whether they retain anything or not. Something would sink in.

[wtmusic]

68. As a cyclist who rides 4,000 miles/year

I totally sympathize with your experience.

Although it's extremely rare to find any cyclist who comes to a complete stop for every stop sign, the same is true for drivers. Because stopping & starting does reduce the enjoyment of riding and if traffic is very light, cyclists will take more liberties and often completely blow off stop signs. That's just the way it is. That doesn't justify anyone's actions if they endanger people or property. But in Idaho, a stop sign for cyclists legally is considered the same as a yield sign - the cyclist can proceed without stopping if it's safe. That's the way it should be everywhere.

Then there are the "BRNs" as I call them - Bicycle Rights Nazis. Laws take on a severely distorted perspective in a BRN's mind - they have the right to do whatever a car does, and then some. They scream at drivers when they are driving completely lawfully. They ride down the middle of the road when they're going much slower (illegal here in CA). I had an edit war with one on Wikipedia (see Bicycle Law in California) who claimed it was legal to have races down open public streets and clog streets with hundreds of riders.

I'm torn because there is a legitimate issue with drivers who don't understand cyclists rights as well. I think the answer will be to require a driver's license for all cyclists on public streets and test both drivers and cyclists on bike law. They are some of the most misunderstood rules of the road.

I was hit by a car (the car's fault) and broke several ribs so I know what that feels like. Hope you get better soon.

[Arugula Latte]

70. My son, who is learning to drive, almost hit a cyclist, but it wasn't his fault.

My son was starting to creep out of a parking lot that had poor visibility on either side. A bicylist, maybe late 20s, male, no helmet, went FLYING by about an inch in front of the car -- riding on the wrong side of the street. That dude is lucky he didn't get taken out, but I couldn't help but wonder how many other close calls he's had. One of these days Darwinism is going to prevail on his ass -- or more likely, his brain, which will be splattered on the pavement.

[wtmusic]

86. When I see someone riding without a helmet

I know it's someone who doesn't ride a lot.

If you ride a lot you will eventually fall, and when adults riding on public streets fall without a helmet, it is never, ever pretty. If you're not dead or brain damaged, consider yourself very lucky.

I've broken two helmets which would have been my cranium, and if I don't have my helmet I don't ride.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

97. I ride offroad as well as on.

You learn quickly that your helmet is your best friend when the errant branch or tumble puts your head in jeopardy.

[modem77]

120. These people ride every day of their life as transportation. Very few wear helmets outside of the US

[wtmusic]

121. The average Dutch citizen rides 1.5 miles/day

That's about one-sixth what I ride, so it's relative.

Of course, they'd be better off if they wore helmets anyway:

"Annually, 190 people die in the Netherlands and more than 9,200 sustain serious injury in a bicycle crash. A third of these seriously injured bicycle casualties are diagnosed with head or brain injuries (32%) (LMR 2005-2009; see also Table 1). Head injury is the general category and generally implies brain injury, but sometimes there is head injury without brain injury."

http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/UK/FS_Bicycle_helmets.pdf

[PavePusher]

153. In addition to what wt said....

note that they appear to be in a bikes-only traffic sytem, not fighting/competing with motorized traffic or pedestrians. There's a lot of that there, I was quite jealous the few trips I had to the Netherlands.

[loli phabay]

124. id disagree i used to bmx and mountain bike a lot and ive never had a helmet

Mayby not the best idea. My kids wesr them but thats their mother making them i still dont.

[Liberal_in_LA]

71. how awful. Glad you and dog are ok

[progressoid]

76. Here ya go...

[Cha]

108. Ohhhh, AKitten! I'm so sorry this

happened to you..poor thing! Some people might not have survived being hit by a bicycle like that.

I keep thinking of what happened afterwards..? Did the bicyclist have to stop and apologize? Get a ticket? Pay for your hospitial bills?

Hope you heal as fast as possible, Atomic!

[bhikkhu]

109. Open and shut case - pedestrians come first

on sidewalks, in crosswalks, on the bike path (properly known as the MUP - multiple-use path), wherever. Pedestrians very rarely harm anyone or anything by travelling unsafely, but a cyclist certainly can, so there is that added level of responsibility and care.

I say that as a cyclist myself, who puts about 9k miles a year on. I'd most like to see safe riding taught in schools, as there seems to be a whole generation of adults who are completely clueless themselves about the rules of the road for cycling. And I'd support teaching cycling rules as a part of driver education as well - how can drivers predict how to drive with cyclists around when they don't know the rules themselves?

I hope your injuries heal up well, and I hope you get reimbursed!

[wtmusic]

114. Not always.

If a pedestrian runs into the street and a motorist (or cyclist) doesn't have time to stop, the pedestrian can be found 100% at fault. And believe me, hitting a pedestrian at 25mph is every bit as dangerous for the cyclist as the pedestrian.

The standard is higher for cyclists and motorists, but I've nearly run down joggers who blithely darted into bike lanes without checking first.

[valerief]

110. Republican cyclists. We're supposed to yield to whatever they want.

Hope you're feeling better.

[tech3149]

111. I'll admit I didn't read all the responses but here's my response for what it's worth.

I currently live in a rural area but spent more than two decades in urban and highly populated suburban areas. My working life had me on the road behind the wheel for better that 12 hrs a day. I'm also a motorsport nut, mostly road racing in any form.
I found over the years that the most important thing that saved me from serious harm was situational awareness.
Being aware of what is going on around you at the extremes of your perception is the best defense to keep you safe. Concentrate on those extremes and what happens closer will be absorbed peripherally You can't assume that others around you try to practice the same skill so always assume they're deaf, blind, and dumb.
Even if you couldn't see some bike rider passing on the right in that instance, paying attention to the extremes of your vision or the reaction of the approaching cars might have given you a clue as to what was approaching.

I don't say these things to dismiss your reaction to the situation, I think you did very well in reacting to the situation. I say these things to give you some ideas and focus to be able to avoid these situations in the future, and hopefully others might gain some perspective from concepts that have helped keep me alive for 60 something years.
I want you all to be safe and live long lives even if I don't expect to.

[Art_from_Ark]

112. In this part of Japan,

it seems that nearly everybody, whether pedestrian, cyclist, or motorist, is "deaf, blind, and dumb". Cyclists seem to be the worst, as they will often ride on the wrong side of the road, ride without a light in the dark, run through stop signs (even where it's posted "Bicycles must also stop&quot , and/or ride while playing with their iPod/cell phone (I've seen some cyclists do all 4 at the same time ). I'm a cyclist myself, I get about 40 miles average in a week, and I do try to follow the rules, but geeeeez, it seems like once bicyclists get into high school here, they just toss bicycle safety out the window.

I will definitely agree that "Being aware of what is going on around you at the extremes of your perception is the best defense to keep you safe." Even then, it won't help too much when you're stopped at a blind intersection and some idiot driver is cutting a corner from a cross street and drives right into you

It's definitely not as bad as Russia, though, where a very large number of drivers seem to be super aggressive and have no qualms about ramming you if you happen to be in their way while they're speeding through a red light or a stop sign.

[subterranean]

113. What happened to the bicyclist?

A cyclist riding recklessly like that, especially in an urban environment, is endangering his own life as well as others.

[Care Acutely]

115. Mode of transport aside, that was an asshole, I hope you sued.

You will feel some effects of this for the rest of your life. You deserve compensation.

[-..__...]

117. Bicyclists... licensed, registered, insured.

Don't like it?!?

Then walk or take public transportation.

[frylock]

127. fuck that shit..

do i need to buy a green sticker for my mountain bikes as well?

[orpupilofnature57]

133. " If you take a walk i'll tax your feet " George Harrison

A person walking an unruly dog or child can cause as much mayhem as anyone, what's your document for that ?

[LanternWaste]

154. I imagine your suggestion will be given all the consideration it warrants...

I imagine your suggestion will be given all the consideration it warrants...




We do tend to advertise our character in ways we don't intend to.

[orpupilofnature57]

155. People are at their worst in a car or store .n/t

[modem77]

119. I ride 5 miles every morning and I always stop at stop lights and stop signs.

[Romulox]

128. I roll stop signs all the time; I didn't hit you, or anybody else. So why bring me into this? nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

130. Cyclists hit somebody on a pathway by my office atleast weekly

There is a great big sign that says "CYCLISTS DISMOUNT" which they interpret to mean ride side by side as fast as fucking possible and hit as many pedestrians and dogs as possible before fleeing.

This sign can never be used enough, not that the two-wheeled anarchists are likely to obey it more than any other traffic signal.



I myself have been hit by cyclists both on foot and in my car, in both instances the cyclists said something offensive before leaving the scene.

[lonestarnot]

136. Hope you are feeling better!

[WI_DEM]

142. I see this everyday walking in downtown Madison...

I'm in the lane crossing the street and most cars will stop but bikes? no way, they keep going and don't care if they go right in front of you--your supposed to stop for them apparently. I think quite a few people are getting fed up with some bike riders and I was always big on sharing the road with them, but now that on the most part we do they don't think they should follow traffic rules.