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Fri Oct 16, 2020, 09:47 AM

How We Can Stop Trump From Stealing The Election

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HOW TO STOP TRUMP FROM STEALING THE ELECTION

President Donald Trump and his allies have repeatedly spoken about their plans to intimidate voters, disrupt the count of mail-in ballots, and seek favorable election rulings from the Supreme Court. If all of this fails to swing the count his way, Trump will likely try to overturn the election results by having his allies in Republican legislatures send illegitimate electors to the Electoral College. A new report, ďThe Count: A practical guide to defending the Constitution in a contested 2020 election," written by Zack Malitz, Brandon Evans, and Becky Bond answers the question: if a worst-case scenario comes into play, what should elected officials and voters do?







https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aqmM4xtwrQICCu5KldYePLf3Zk_TMzRo71wRvyPmLfk/edit

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2020, 10:01 AM

1. Becky Bond has the answer. Battleground blue state govs must move...

a slate of Biden electors to the Electoral College. No screwing around arguing with repugs over not-yet-counted mail-in/absentee ballots. Just do it, play hardball like Moscow Mitch and the repugs do.

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Response to brush (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 16, 2020, 10:16 AM

2. +1 "play hardball like Moscow Mitch and the repugs do."

Don't bring a hot dish to a knife fight in a phone booth...
m

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2020, 10:16 AM

3. Faulty premise: Republican legislatures cannot appoint alternate slates of electors

You keep posting this Evidence-free nonsense, so I will keep posting evidence based refutations:

Yes, the Constitution states that the legislatures determine how electors are appointed; federal law gives the final say to the governor, because the legislatures in the states have directed that electors be determined by the winner of the popular vote in that state.

Letís take PA; the legislature passed a law into the Election Code stating the electors are appointed by the governor in accordance with the winner of the popular vote, as certified by the Secretary of State. To change this, the legislature would have to amend the election code, which...requires the signature of the governor.

So...the panicked, nightmare scenario where the GOP legislature overrules the will of the people is not going to happen.

But donít take my word for it; how about Laurence Tribe, one of nationís top constitutional experts, quoting existing law and prior court rulings, including from SCOTUS:

http://www.dorfonlaw.org/2020/09/state-legislatures-cannot-act-alone-in.html

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e70e52c7c72720ed714313f/t/5f625c790cef066e940ea42d/1600281722253/State_Legislature_Paper.pdf

https://verdict.justia.com/2020/09/30/no-republicans-cannot-throw-the-presidential-election-into-the-house-so-that-trump-wins

And some other experts, who also support their assertions with existing law and legal precedents:

https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Maps/Sep25.html#item-2

The only way Trump can retain power is through extra-legal, perhaps violent means, such as using armed federal agents to seize uncounted ballots or otherwise disrupt the initial counting of votes. This would require the complicity and cooperation of hundreds, if not thousands of federal agents, acting in multiple states, and risking incarceration and possible death from being shot by state police defending vote tallying sites. It would also result in millions of protestors in the streets, and the total collapse of the stock market and the economy.

I donít know what your agenda is repeatedly posting these panicked conspiracy theories; yes Trump will attempt to disrupt and distract the vote counting process, but the evidence shows that the theories on how he can ďstealĒ the election just donít hold water.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 16, 2020, 10:27 AM

4. Thanks. People just wanna be scared and scare others with conspiracy theories.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 16, 2020, 10:53 AM

5. Thank you Fiendish Thingy...spreading truth. These theories are such weak sauce

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 16, 2020, 10:56 AM

6. all your repetitive cut and pasting doesn't convince me that we have zero to to be concerned about

in various arenas and from a multiplicity of angles. You are a normalcy bias-driven poster and I profoundly disagree with your set-in-stone attitude and dismissiveness of anything outside your narrow latticework.

Your entire point of view is based upon adherence to norms and the rule of law that came in pre-Trumpian times, but it is a whole new ballgame now. Those norms and laws have been shit on for almost 4 straight years.

I am NOT posting conspiracy theories at all. All my posts on this subject have come come form well-respected sources who have nothing but the good of the nation and the Democratic party in mind. In fact one could question YOUR agenda in constantly refusing to look at a wide variety of possible scenarios.


you said (not that I am saying this is the only possibility at all)

The only way Trump can retain power is through extra-legal, perhaps violent means, such as using armed federal agents


what the hell do you think he has already been doing, for months

also (from that same paragraph)

This would require the complicity and cooperation of hundreds, if not thousands of federal agents, acting in multiple states, and risking incarceration and possible death from being shot by state police defending vote tallying sites. It would also result in millions of protestors in the streets, and the total collapse of the stock market and the economy.


this assumes a shedload of things that are in no way guaranteed

we simply do not know the framing nor the exact chain of events that may occur

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Response to Celerity (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 16, 2020, 12:24 PM

7. I entertain all realistic possibilities, it's just that yours aren't realistic

You call that ďnormalcy-bias drivenĒ, I call it reality based.

Even if things unfold as you fear, and GOP legislatures send alternate Trump slates (And it would have to be slates from multiple states) of electors to Congress for certification, that doesnít mean they will automatically be accepted. If the Dems take back the senate, then any objections can be overruled, and alternate slates rejected. If Dems donít take back the senate, and alternate slates submitted, Pelosi can still stall or shut down the certification process (the EV certification is overseen by Pence in a joint session in the House, a chamber which Pelosi physically controls) resulting in Pelosi succeeding Trump on Jan. 20.

The GOP could try to throw the decision to the House delegations, but I think Pelosi is smarter/stronger than to allow that to happen. It would be a Constitutional crisis to be sure, uncharted waters with an uncertain outcome, and extremely unlikely to happen.

The narrative is emerging, even among Republicans, that Trump has lost, and many are looking for the exits or post-Trump era gigs.

If your theories prove true, and democracy collapses and the American Experiment comes to an end, Iíll be happy to apologize, admit I was wrong, and treat you to the beverage of your choice, paying for it in whatever barter system will be used in 2021, since the US dollar will no longer be recognized as a global/reserve currency should your scenario come to pass.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 16, 2020, 12:42 PM

8. we are never going to agree, we will have to see what happens, and I am only saying we need

to be prepared for ANYTHING

I never once have claimed that any of this is a done deal, nor that these scenarios are what will happen

you also seen to be fixated upon mostly one possibility (the alterative set of electors)

I do not limit myself to only that

time will tell, and I hope none of the worst case scenarios transpire

but I also refuse to be categized as having some 'agenda' for simple engaging in discussion

I have been on this board long enough and posted more than enough to avoid being painted as possibly being some agent of discord or having some hidden agenda

and I apologise if I came off a little hot, I really have absolutely nothing against you personally as a poster




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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2020, 12:55 PM

9. I think we need to create a Truman Show set for Trump.

Send him to a mock White House when he returns from Mara-Lago. Pipe in fake tv video from Fox proclaiming his victory. Let him live in his delusion until the marshalls are ready to arrest him.

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Response to Celerity (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2020, 12:59 PM

10. vote

and get all Dems out to the poles

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