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Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 01:20 PM Sep 2012

I'm curious as to what makes a good debater?

Will you be consider a good debater if you respond to questions with facts?

Are you consider a good debater if you deviate from facts?

Are you also a good debater if you fill your answers with lies?

Is composure part of being a good debater?

What is it that makes a good debater DU?

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I'm curious as to what makes a good debater? (Original Post) Hutzpa Sep 2012 OP
who wants to be good - when you can be a Master? jorno67 Sep 2012 #1
Or when you have giant groups demwing Sep 2012 #3
Before I even opened this thread, I knew... renie408 Sep 2012 #7
That's pretty damn funny mahina Sep 2012 #9
You may be a master debater but I'm a cunning linguist. Yeah, baby, YEAH! TheManInTheMac Sep 2012 #23
For us: Good grasp of the facts, cool demeanor. democrat_patriot Sep 2012 #2
This. CrispyQ Sep 2012 #26
And i suppose they will also Hutzpa Sep 2012 #27
Think fast, lay out a persuasive argument, mahina Sep 2012 #4
"paralyzed by your own bullshit" Hutzpa Sep 2012 #10
Unfortunately what are considered 'facts' differ depending on politics. former9thward Sep 2012 #5
Put your TV set on mute - the winner will be obvious ksoze Sep 2012 #6
In debate, I am not sure how much facts and accuracy come into it. renie408 Sep 2012 #8
Correct Hutzpa Sep 2012 #11
A Master Debater must have a vivid imagination auburngrad82 Sep 2012 #12
...and a firm grasp of the subject ksoze Sep 2012 #13
...."and a firm grasp of the subject" Hutzpa Sep 2012 #18
"The ability to hear Satan telling his opponent what to say and a finely tuned sense . . . siligut Sep 2012 #14
You mean like a deaniac21 Sep 2012 #15
Master debater, good debater Hutzpa Sep 2012 #16
A shovel and... Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2012 #17
The guy with the "W" transceiver has a big advantage, esp. SDjack Sep 2012 #19
If you are asking re: the presidential debates, they aren't debates. WinkyDink Sep 2012 #20
Not having the weight of Paul Ryan on your ticket! B Calm Sep 2012 #21
Being on the right side of the issues is a major advantage, that's why the Republicans Uncle Joe Sep 2012 #22
I would imagine a thorough knowledge of the relevant material... LanternWaste Sep 2012 #24
Yes indeed Hutzpa Sep 2012 #25
 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
3. Or when you have giant groups
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 01:38 PM
Sep 2012

mass debating each other.

I hear it's very popular on some college campuses...

democrat_patriot

(2,774 posts)
2. For us: Good grasp of the facts, cool demeanor.
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 01:22 PM
Sep 2012

For the MSM: Whomever has the best 'zinger' - that will be played ad nauseum.

Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
27. And i suppose they will also
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 03:44 PM
Sep 2012

ignore the $10,000 bet and view that as something people will say during an election debate where facts are

non existence.

mahina

(17,640 posts)
4. Think fast, lay out a persuasive argument,
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 01:43 PM
Sep 2012

understand your opponent's likely arguments and refute them before they get them out, and don't leave any point unanswered.
It helps if you aren't paralyzed by your own bullshit.
Establish credibility using objectively verifiable resources. Understand different logical fallacies and call them out every time.

Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
10. "paralyzed by your own bullshit"
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 01:53 PM
Sep 2012

that is what I got from watching the republican debate, that all the candidate were paralyzed by their own bullshit
that the media accepted it as facts.

I hope we don't get that bullshit from the debate next week.

former9thward

(31,970 posts)
5. Unfortunately what are considered 'facts' differ depending on politics.
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 01:45 PM
Sep 2012

So in a debate that can be a difficult standard. The Presidential debates are not debates in any real sense. They are not allowed to ask each other questions. They are two press conferences going on side by side.

renie408

(9,854 posts)
8. In debate, I am not sure how much facts and accuracy come into it.
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 01:50 PM
Sep 2012

The goal of debate is to sway the audience to your argument. A good debater is one who can quickly identify the weakness in their opponent's argument and exploit it for their own benefit.

Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
11. Correct
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 01:58 PM
Sep 2012

but watching all the noise being created by the hyping of Romney and watching his debate performance during the
republican primary, I can't help but think what were they watching?

I'm I the only one that saw something else.

auburngrad82

(5,029 posts)
12. A Master Debater must have a vivid imagination
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 02:02 PM
Sep 2012

Without an imagination, what's the point.

Oh wait. I misunderstood the debater part. Nevermind.

Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
18. ...."and a firm grasp of the subject"
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 02:37 PM
Sep 2012

that should be the idea, from what I'm seeing I'm thinking that, firm grasp of the subject does not matter when it
comes to the republicans. Truth is, they DO NOT have facts going for them, so they use every trick in the book
to ensure distortion, they saturate convoluted correspondence backed up by disingenuous pundits to ensure
confusion.

It's another way of lowering the bar so much that the electorate is left thinking that a mediocre performance can
be seen as a masterpiece.

siligut

(12,272 posts)
14. "The ability to hear Satan telling his opponent what to say and a finely tuned sense . . .
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 02:11 PM
Sep 2012

. . . of when he's being persecuted." Only true for Willard, at least according to munchybotaz on the Recovery From Mormonism board.

Read a few more insights into Willard's magic debating powers here:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,653693

Will Mitt Romney's training as a Mormon help him in the upcoming debates--and, if so, how? (Keep it churchy, folks) . . .

If you ask me, I think Romney can clinch a debate win if he simply shouts out, "Now is the great day of my power!"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2012 10:52AM by steve benson.

Options: Reply•Quote
Posted by: rise ( )
Date: September 27, 2012 11:16PM
Re: Will Mitt Romney's training as a Mormon help him in the upcoming debates--and, if so, how? (Keep it churchy, folks).

If you mean lie incessantly, then yes, it shall

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Posted by: Leah ( )
Date: September 27, 2012 11:19PM
Re: Will Mitt Romney's training as a Mormon help him in the upcoming debates--and, if so, how? (Keep it churchy, folks).

I'm not the first one to bring this up -

But how can Romney swear to serve our country as president when he has already sworn in the temple to build up the Mormon kingdom?

This would be a crazy situation because of the secret temple oaths and the cult's demands for OBEDIENCE to morg leaders.

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: September 27, 2012 11:27PM
Re: Will Mitt Romney's training as a Mormon help him in the upcoming debates--and, if so, how? (Keep it churchy, folks).

No. Mormons lie too much to be able to stay consistent.

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Posted by: munchybotaz ( )
Date: September 27, 2012 11:29PM
Yes

Being Mormon, MITT™ has the ability to hear Satan telling his opponent what to say and a finely tuned sense of when he's being persecuted (i.e., most of the time). These attributes will help him look ridiculous.

And, because his belief in his latter-day-born American Mormon eliteness is so deeply ingrained, he'll appear confident while doing it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2012 11:38PM by munchybotaz.

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Posted by: dk ( )
Date: September 27, 2012 11:37PM
Re: Will Mitt Romney's training as a Mormon help him in the upcoming debates--and, if so, how? (Keep it churchy, folks).

It would only help if everything he says is scripted and he doesn't have to think on his feet.

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Posted by: archytas ( )
Date: September 27, 2012 11:38PM
Re: Will Mitt Romney's training as a Mormon help him in the upcoming debates--and, if so, how? (Keep it churchy, folks).

No!

As one who has debated with mormon missionaries, I can tell you that going off script can shut down their discussions fairly easily.

If mittens does well, it will be thanks to his Ivy League education with no thanks to the morg.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: September 28, 2012 12:18AM
Re: Will Mitt Romney's training as a Mormon help him in the upcoming debates--and, if so, how? (Keep it churchy, folks).

Mitt has that special Apostle ability to 'know' that if it comes out of his own mouth it is true.

It starts young. You give your testimony with mom whispering in your ear. You are rewarded for saying what she said. You did it. You spoke the truth!

You stand for the first time as a youth and fervently bear the testimony that you have been taught. You believe that you believe it. You see that everyone is thrilled that you know the truth.

You go on your mission and you believe what you are saying. Not because it makes sense. Not because it has fact. You believe it because you are a member of the one true church and it is coming out of your mouth.

That is where I was up until close to the end.

Now consider Mitt in that same circumstance. Add to that the rich golden boy status that was his. Handsome son of the rich and the elite.

Anyone listening to him wanted to be part of that. Whatever he did, whatever he said, people wanted some. It didn't have to have substance. It just had to come out of his mouth. He came to believe his own publicity, the brainwashing was complete. He has achieved the highest degree of glory, he is God' elite.

That surety is attractive in an apostle with a rapt mormon audience. That surety was attractive for Mitt with a rapt mormon audience. It has given him the confidence to look presidential, but has it given him anything besides the look?

In the debate, the audience will not be rapt. They will be looking for fact. They will be looking for substance. Even the republicans are not rapt anymore.

This time when he speaks he may be the only person in the hall who believes what comes out of his mouth.

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Posted by: breatheagain ( )
Date: September 28, 2012 11:02AM
Re: Will Mitt Romney's training as a Mormon help him in the upcoming debates--and, if so, how? (Keep it churchy, folks).

I agree, the I know this is true, even if it's only true somewhere in that imaginary universe that they've made up. It's a powerful statement, even if it premises a lie.

I can just hear him. 'I know Heavenly Father has called me as a bishop, stake president and now president to raise up a nation to him.' 'I know everything I've ever done or said has prepared me for this calling as president of the united states', 'I know I will win this election because Joseph Smith said so.'

Scary thing is I know he thinks all that is reality


I also understand that many sister Mormons are fasting for Mitt, to help him combat and prevail over President Obama's many lies.

Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
16. Master debater, good debater
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 02:21 PM
Sep 2012

Last edited Fri Sep 28, 2012, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

it doesn't matter, the question is what qualify someone as an excellent debater?

Uncle Joe

(58,342 posts)
22. Being on the right side of the issues is a major advantage, that's why the Republicans
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 03:27 PM
Sep 2012

and their corporate media puppets are trying to push the meme of "low expectations" in regards to Romney's participation in the upcoming debates.

They know they're on the wrong side of too many issues and thus are are trying to put focus on anything but the substance of the debates.

They hope and probably with good reason that much of the corporate media will give Romney credit or a passing grade if he doesn't drool on the podium or expel a loud fart.

Thanks for the thread, Hutzpa.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
24. I would imagine a thorough knowledge of the relevant material...
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 03:33 PM
Sep 2012

I would imagine a thorough knowledge of the relevant material, staying within the relevant parameters of the topic, and a rigorous avoidance of logical fallacies. Everything else is fluff.

(and an ability to avoid allowing oneself to get angry or frustrated with others when they themselves fail to achieve the above).

Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
25. Yes indeed
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 03:39 PM
Sep 2012

one of the characteristics imo that makes a good/master debater is the ability to stay calm and to the point even when your opponent is trying to throw off or get under your skin. I can see Romney trying that with the president.

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