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Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:19 AM

This election has changed my mind completely.

I live in a red state, but in a solidly blue county. I've decided I can't trust that voting early or by mail is the right thing to do anymore. It seems republicans have developed ways to sabotage those methods. They've fucked with the mail and I think they have lots of time to fuck with ballots cast early. I'm gonna hate doing it, but I'm voting on election day in person moving forward. I think republican voters know something we don't. That's why they all vote on election day.

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Reply This election has changed my mind completely. (Original post)
rownesheck Nov 2020 OP
apcalc Nov 2020 #1
rownesheck Nov 2020 #4
BComplex Nov 2020 #23
The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2020 #5
Celerity Nov 2020 #32
The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2020 #2
Bigredhunk Nov 2020 #8
The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2020 #11
Bigredhunk Nov 2020 #29
DeminPennswoods Nov 2020 #14
BComplex Nov 2020 #24
dsc Nov 2020 #25
Bigredhunk Nov 2020 #30
crimycarny Nov 2020 #3
qazplm135 Nov 2020 #9
crimycarny Nov 2020 #12
qazplm135 Nov 2020 #18
crimycarny Nov 2020 #21
qazplm135 Nov 2020 #22
crimycarny Nov 2020 #34
BComplex Nov 2020 #27
crimycarny Nov 2020 #39
BComplex Nov 2020 #41
TigressDem Nov 2020 #6
sweetloukillbot Nov 2020 #7
apcalc Nov 2020 #13
secondwind Nov 2020 #10
DeminPennswoods Nov 2020 #15
Raine Nov 2020 #16
rownesheck Nov 2020 #17
Raine Nov 2020 #19
JonLP24 Nov 2020 #20
marie999 Nov 2020 #26
BComplex Nov 2020 #31
crimycarny Nov 2020 #36
Bengus81 Nov 2020 #28
BComplex Nov 2020 #33
brooklynite Nov 2020 #37
BComplex Nov 2020 #38
brooklynite Nov 2020 #45
Bengus81 Nov 2020 #46
brooklynite Nov 2020 #35
mtnsnake Nov 2020 #40
LisaL Nov 2020 #42
NewJeffCT Nov 2020 #43
Rice4VP Nov 2020 #44

Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:20 AM

1. They can hack the machines too. There isn't a cheatproof voting method.

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Response to apcalc (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:22 AM

4. I know.

I just hope that if more people start voting on election day, they won't have enough time to sabotage everything. Trust me, I'm aware those fuckers will stop at nothing.

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Response to rownesheck (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:12 AM

23. It's in the vote counting machine programming. That's what nobody is allowed to

see. "Proprietary software". That's how Karl Rove is allowed to hack & steal elections...which is why McConnell brought him in.

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Response to apcalc (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:22 AM

5. Paper ballots, no machines at all.

Paper ballots can be physically stolen, too, but at least they can't just disappear without anyone noticing.

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Response to apcalc (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:28 AM

32. yes, there actually is, both my other nations use it to great effect, all paper ballots,hand counted

works like a charm in the UK and Sweden (and a shedload of other advanced nation states)

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:20 AM

2. I voted absentee only because of covid, will go back to the old way

when it's safe. But I hand-delivered my ballot and I know it was accepted and counted.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:24 AM

8. Hey

VO, how do you know if it's counted (how do you check)? That's one thing that always worries me. I know they received the 3 from our house b/c I dropped them off on the county auditor's desk and checked online to verify that it was received. But how do I know our 3 votes went into our candidate's tally?

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Response to Bigredhunk (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:29 AM

11. Depends on how the state tracks them. They can't tell you whether

your vote went to a particular candidate because the ballots are anonymous by the time they get to the tabulator, but they should be able to tell you whether it was accepted (not just physically received) and counted.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:21 AM

29. TY

Thanks!

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Response to Bigredhunk (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:33 AM

14. Because the people who work

at the county election boards are going to do their job regardless of their personal politics.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:18 AM

24. But the people in charge of programming the central tabulators can change votes

at several junctures along the way.

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Response to Bigredhunk (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:18 AM

25. we have ballottrax and it told me when mine was accepted

and counted.

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Response to dsc (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:24 AM

30. TY

Thanks!

There ought to be both a web site and a physical place (county seat courthouse?) where you can check your # (voter id # they give you, driver's license #, last 4 of SSN) and see the candidates to whom your vote(s) went. That way it would be easy to count proper #'s easily. And you should get a receipt when you hand in your ballot too, just to make sure it's counted correctly from the start.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:21 AM

3. Aren't mail in ballots what are helping close the gap?

In Michigan and Wisconsin Iím reading itís the mail-in ballots that are helping Biden at this point. I donít trust voting machines. Mail-in ballots are paper and traceable.

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:25 AM

9. well the argument would be there wouldn't BE a gap

if everyone or most were voting on election day instead of mail-in but we really don't know that either.

We can't visit parallel realities as of yet.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:30 AM

12. What difference would that make if voting machines can be hacked?

Serious question (not asking in a sarcastic way). Rove almost certainly flipped votes in Ohio in 200 and 2004. Anonymous Hacking group claims they thwarted a similar attempt in 2012 (and thatís when Rove had his infamous melt down on FOX when they called Ohio for Obama).

Itís electronic voting that is the issue, IMO. 2016 there was evidence Russia had the capability to change votes. I guarantee they did.

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:47 AM

18. if they could be hacked

then wouldn't they just hack them to guarantee a Trump win??

I mean why would they hack their way to a narrow Biden win which is what is looking likely?

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:56 AM

21. Because they can't hack into enough machines to overcome the mail-in ballots?

With no standards as for what type of voting machines are used per state, even per counties in a state, itís likely that some machines are better secured than others. So a hacker (Russia, GOP, whoever) can only flip so many votes. They also need to be careful not to raise major red flags (like they canít flip to a particular county going 100% one candidate). So they flip as many as they can but it may not be enough to counteract the paper mail-in ballots.

From day one Iíve thought Trumpís main issue with mail-in ballots was not his concern over that making it easier for more people to vote, but that mail-in ballots make it harder to cheat.

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:08 AM

22. I think it's more likely

they weren't hacked then they hacked them but somehow couldn't figure out how to hack them enough to overcome mail-in ballots that could have been at least somewhat estimated.

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:32 AM

34. Just saw an old news story on how easy it is to flip votes on Diebold

1) Voting machines have identical key locks that open up the machine, so any key from that machine type can open all.
2) you can buy voting machines on EBayóso anyone can purchase one to figure out how it works and code a virus
3) they demonstrated a virus that successfully flipped votes for a different candidate than who the voter actually voted for. Was so easy as to make me physically nauseous.

I guarantee you that vote tallies are being manipulated. I just hope not enough to overcome all the mail-in paper ballots.

Iíve never felt so depressed and frustrated. How can our elected officials allow our elections to be so easily manipulated? Regardless of what ďsideĒ you are on, why not protect this sacred right?

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:20 AM

27. As long as those ballots are hand counted, it's "traceable". It's the

programming, and the link up to the central tabulators.

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Response to BComplex (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:40 AM

39. Yes, that's how Rove stole Ohio

His ďman in the middleĒ changed the tabulation totals. I still canít believe how blasť our politicians seem to be about the security of our election system. So many groups have showed time and time again how easy it is to hack these machines. Middle schoolers hacking in within minutes!

As for Rove, there was so much evidence he manipulated votes but no real investigation. I donít understand..I truly donít.

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:45 AM

41. I don't understand it, either. I really hope that there are investigations

of the voting machines, and audits of the paper ballots.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:23 AM

6. Yeah, That's what I did too.

Was SOOOOO much a blithering idiot these past few weeks. I just feared he would find a way to steal the election.

HOWEVER, with the map STILL looking so blue, I think this just entails a fight to the end and if I have to quit my job and go to DC with a megaphone and a crew of thousands, I think I just might have to do a Jericho on Dump. Put up a wall of protest so loud that the china in the West wing will tremble in the cupboard.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:23 AM

7. I'm on the "vote by mail" list, but I hand-delivered my ballot. It was verified two-days later.

I think that's the best way to go.

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Response to sweetloukillbot (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:32 AM

13. Me too. And I agree that's best.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:26 AM

10. Ivanka imported electronic voting machines from China.


Anyone remember this? Daddy got China to approve this, and other imports like baby furniture etc.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:35 AM

15. JMHO, but all the talk about early voting and mailed

ballots favoring Dems by a lot just might have made Rs that much more determined to vote in person. Rs knew they had a deficit to make up.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:39 AM

16. I get an Absentee ballot but I turn it in at the polling place in person. nt

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Response to Raine (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:41 AM

17. I look to see if TX allows that.

I'm not sure they do. Usually, in order to get a mail in ballot, you have to prove you're to sick or something to show up in person. Or, you have to be 65 or older.

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Response to rownesheck (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:47 AM

19. I'm in California and you can get one without a reason and sign up

to be a permanent Absentee voter. The states vary so much in how they do their voting, makes it more difficult .

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:50 AM

20. If you're going to do mail-in voting do it like Arizona & Oregon

A lot of those states are new & have confusing rules & ballots.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:19 AM

26. Voting should be paper ballot only.

Ballots counted by machines but one at a time first shown to delegates of each party with a running total of the vote for each party. Cumbersome, but the only way to make sure count is correct.

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Response to marie999 (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:27 AM

31. I totally agree. Paper ballots, fine if machines count them the first time, but they all need to be

hand counted and an audit done to verify the programming of the tabulators.

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Response to BComplex (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:35 AM

36. This +1000

Yes, need to be confirmed with a manual audit. I donít care if it takes longer, it is too important.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:20 AM

28. My ballot was received and then processed on October 26th

No one fucked around with my ballot

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Response to Bengus81 (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:28 AM

33. But someone might have

fucked around with the computer that your ballot was put into to be counted. Yes, it was counted, but whose column did your vote go for? Was the machine programmed to flip republican/democratic votes?

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Response to BComplex (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:35 AM

37. If you buy into a vote hacking conspiracy theory, your election day ballot is just as vulnerable.

Fortunately, there continues to be no evidence that this is happening.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:39 AM

38. There is, and has been, evidence that this has been happening for 20 years.

It's not a conspiracy "theory". It's happened. Even in 2016 it was shown that russia got into the voting machines in Florida. It was in the Senate's intelligence committee report.

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Response to BComplex (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:11 AM

45. "it was shown that russia got into the voting machines in Florida."

Go back and check; they got into voter file lists. It wasn't never suggested that that accessed voting machines.

And the same voting machines gave us our big wins two years ago.

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Response to BComplex (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:28 PM

46. Then what...quickly change it back for a Republican voter, then back for a Dem voter?

All the while dozens of people are watching?? I don't think 99.9999% of election workers are thinking about spending the rest of their life in a Federal Pen for trying to get Trump another vote or two.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:34 AM

35. You have no evidence that early voting was tampered with. Stop scaring people.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #35)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:44 AM

40. True, the OP has no evidence of that, BUT

of the three methods of voting made available to the American public, which of those methods is more susceptible to being tampered with: Voting by mail, early voting, or voting on election day? Which of those 3 methods gives a crooked administration, a Trump administration that would not hesitate to interfere with the vote count, more time to fuck with the ballots? Think about it. The OP makes a valid point.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:46 AM

42. I am so tired of all the conspiracy theories.

If Trumpers believe in all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories, must democrats do the same?

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:50 AM

43. I've lived in suburban Connecticut my entire life

several different towns in different parts of the state. I have NEVER waited more than maybe 5-10 minutes to vote my entire life. And, I've always voted on election day (except the Dem primary this year where I dropped off my mail-in ballot)

Currenly, I live in a town of 18,000 that has trended from red to pink to now purple and we have three polling locations for big elections and 1 for local elections.

it really should be like that for everybody.

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Response to rownesheck (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:53 AM

44. The Dems spent months saying how corrupt

Dejoy was and how he was sabotaging the Post Office but still encouraged people to vote by mail.

In the end, thatís what might give us a win, but they never shouldíve pushed it. They shouldíve just said mask up and get on a line and thatís what the majority ended up doing.

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