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Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:46 AM

Anybody else no longer love this country? Hesitated to post, but gotta get this off my chest.

I can't stomach the rampant hypocrisy, the racism, the birtherism, the anti-scientism. That one half of this country could vote for an obvious hideous monstrous moronic evil con man is almost too much for me to bear.

Aside from the matter that Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Sweden are not allowing immigrants from the USA I would already be planning my permanent move, even when it looks like Joe Biden has won.

And as for my home state, Louisiana: you FUCKING BUMS. Three hurricanes, losing coastine at the rate of a football field every hour, sea levels rising to drown out our southern cities.... beggars screaming for Federal help every time a disaster strikes, which is quite often and at the same time lambasting "big government" and "socialism".... FUCK YOU, my fellow Louisianians. You embarrass me to no end.

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Reply Anybody else no longer love this country? Hesitated to post, but gotta get this off my chest. (Original post)
Goodheart Nov 4 OP
lagomorph777 Nov 4 #1
calimary Nov 4 #88
lagomorph777 Nov 4 #89
Tumbulu Nov 4 #100
mountain grammy Nov 4 #127
jeaps Nov 4 #132
Upthevibe Nov 4 #141
weissmam Nov 4 #219
wnylib Nov 4 #223
certainot Nov 4 #234
calimary Nov 5 #248
certainot Nov 5 #249
calimary Nov 5 #250
certainot Nov 6 #251
samsingh Nov 4 #150
DownriverDem Nov 4 #165
wnylib Nov 4 #226
Bucky Nov 5 #243
wnylib Nov 5 #244
live love laugh Nov 4 #2
SunSeeker Nov 4 #114
Bucky Nov 5 #239
hlthe2b Nov 4 #3
Yavin4 Nov 4 #4
sfstaxprep Nov 4 #25
moonscape Nov 4 #47
marlakay Nov 4 #134
Boomer Nov 4 #232
onlyadream Nov 4 #87
world wide wally Nov 4 #116
Upthevibe Nov 4 #144
world wide wally Nov 4 #167
Maven Nov 4 #27
mountain grammy Nov 4 #46
McKim Nov 4 #90
secondwind Nov 4 #69
Blue_true Nov 4 #106
Yavin4 Nov 4 #107
Layzeebeaver Nov 4 #137
Bucky Nov 5 #240
ret5hd Nov 4 #5
Boomerproud Nov 4 #19
ret5hd Nov 4 #34
plimsoll Nov 4 #93
Harker Nov 4 #130
Lars39 Nov 4 #6
sinkingfeeling Nov 4 #7
Goodheart Nov 4 #10
Upthevibe Nov 4 #147
BKDem Nov 4 #95
Upthevibe Nov 4 #155
Klaralven Nov 4 #8
ElementaryPenguin Nov 4 #9
BannonsLiver Nov 4 #11
Polly Hennessey Nov 4 #48
get the red out Nov 4 #50
mtnsnake Nov 4 #12
Butterflylady Nov 4 #131
PirateRo Nov 4 #13
northoftheborder Nov 4 #14
bif Nov 4 #15
Freddie Nov 4 #21
bif Nov 4 #29
moonscape Nov 4 #53
soothsayer Nov 4 #16
Bucky Nov 5 #242
Ninga Nov 4 #17
Mike 03 Nov 4 #22
Ninga Nov 4 #32
TheRealNorth Nov 4 #18
Mike 03 Nov 4 #20
bdamomma Nov 4 #149
Buckeye_Democrat Nov 4 #23
peacebuzzard Nov 4 #184
Buckeye_Democrat Nov 4 #187
peacebuzzard Nov 4 #190
DTomlinson Nov 4 #191
Buckeye_Democrat Nov 4 #196
LakeArenal Nov 4 #24
Goodheart Nov 4 #28
LakeArenal Nov 4 #62
jayschool2013 Nov 4 #151
LakeArenal Nov 4 #159
jayschool2013 Nov 4 #172
Golfnbrew Nov 4 #74
LakeArenal Nov 4 #101
mahina Nov 4 #26
mtngirl47 Nov 4 #146
mahina Nov 4 #178
Steelrolled Nov 4 #30
Goodheart Nov 4 #33
murielm99 Nov 4 #51
EllieBC Nov 4 #80
Steelrolled Nov 4 #117
Ananda62 Nov 4 #129
bdamomma Nov 4 #152
EllieBC Nov 4 #76
Spazito Nov 4 #122
EllieBC Nov 4 #168
Spazito Nov 4 #171
EllieBC Nov 4 #173
Spazito Nov 4 #175
EllieBC Nov 4 #208
Spazito Nov 4 #212
marble falls Nov 5 #246
EllieBC Nov 4 #174
Spazito Nov 4 #176
marble falls Nov 5 #247
Laha Nov 4 #86
mahina Nov 4 #180
Mike 03 Nov 4 #31
Goodheart Nov 4 #35
BannonsLiver Nov 4 #58
wnylib Nov 4 #230
The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 4 #36
llmart Nov 4 #41
mahina Nov 4 #84
Steelrolled Nov 4 #121
Niagara Nov 4 #162
llmart Nov 4 #37
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 4 #181
Bettie Nov 4 #38
MaryMagdaline Nov 4 #39
llmart Nov 4 #43
Takket Nov 4 #40
wryter2000 Nov 4 #42
flibbitygiblets Nov 4 #92
LostinRed Nov 4 #44
jonstl08 Nov 4 #45
caraher Nov 4 #52
Stuart G Nov 4 #65
bdamomma Nov 4 #156
Evolve Dammit Nov 4 #99
lunasun Nov 4 #113
caraher Nov 4 #49
SammyWinstonJack Nov 4 #54
GoCubsGo Nov 4 #55
hay rick Nov 4 #56
Buckeye_Democrat Nov 4 #57
Joinfortmill Nov 4 #59
treestar Nov 4 #60
jonstl08 Nov 4 #61
Jon King Nov 4 #63
Stuart G Nov 4 #77
bdamomma Nov 4 #160
appalachiablue Nov 4 #227
cayugafalls Nov 4 #64
ailsagirl Nov 4 #204
Liberal In Red State Nov 4 #66
Laha Nov 4 #67
catbyte Nov 4 #68
DFW Nov 4 #83
Poiuyt Nov 4 #70
Mad_Dem_X Nov 4 #112
malthaussen Nov 4 #71
Biophilic Nov 4 #72
hurple Nov 4 #73
Pacifist Patriot Nov 4 #75
yaesu Nov 4 #78
Traildogbob Nov 4 #79
vercetti2021 Nov 4 #81
Hanzzy72 Nov 4 #82
Major Nikon Nov 4 #85
rwsanders Nov 4 #91
Dukkha Nov 4 #94
joewicker_TX Nov 4 #96
NoMoreRepugs Nov 4 #97
karin_sj Nov 4 #98
maxsolomon Nov 4 #102
Blue_true Nov 4 #103
betsuni Nov 4 #108
George II Nov 4 #104
Roc2020 Nov 4 #105
Marthe48 Nov 4 #109
Thyla Nov 4 #110
Oscarthegreat Nov 4 #111
zentrum Nov 4 #115
CatLady78 Nov 4 #118
marie999 Nov 4 #119
Lonestarblue Nov 4 #120
bdamomma Nov 4 #169
IronLionZion Nov 4 #123
Loge23 Nov 4 #124
barbtries Nov 4 #125
kimbutgar Nov 4 #126
moondust Nov 4 #128
GoneOffShore Nov 4 #133
Ferrets are Cool Nov 4 #135
Rice4VP Nov 4 #136
bdamomma Nov 4 #170
llashram Nov 4 #138
Upthevibe Nov 4 #139
mchill Nov 4 #140
LymphocyteLover Nov 4 #142
Scalded Nun Nov 4 #143
matt819 Nov 4 #145
AlexSFCA Nov 4 #148
jayschool2013 Nov 4 #153
BernieBabies Nov 4 #154
Brainfodder Nov 4 #157
AldebTX Nov 4 #158
mainer Nov 4 #161
usajumpedtheshark Nov 4 #163
spicysista Nov 4 #164
es466 Nov 4 #166
bucolic_frolic Nov 4 #177
cagefreesoylentgreen Nov 4 #179
Marius25 Nov 4 #182
Fla Dem Nov 4 #183
Woodwizard Nov 4 #185
Goodheart Nov 4 #186
Woodwizard Nov 4 #205
Greybnk48 Nov 4 #188
DTomlinson Nov 4 #189
disalitervisum Nov 4 #192
Peacetrain Nov 4 #193
Raine Nov 4 #194
BainsBane Nov 4 #195
Star-Thrower Nov 4 #206
Missn-Hitch Nov 4 #197
panader0 Nov 4 #198
BobTheSubgenius Nov 4 #199
paulkienitz Nov 4 #200
callous taoboy Nov 4 #201
mahatmakanejeeves Nov 4 #202
Star-Thrower Nov 4 #203
cstanleytech Nov 4 #207
smiboy1956 Nov 4 #209
jayfish Nov 4 #210
DashOneBravo Nov 4 #211
coeur_de_lion Nov 4 #213
warmfeet Nov 4 #214
JCMach1 Nov 4 #215
drmeow Nov 4 #216
chitown progressive Nov 4 #217
denvine Nov 4 #222
weissmam Nov 4 #218
bullimiami Nov 4 #220
Meowmee Nov 4 #221
yuiyoshida Nov 4 #224
birdographer Nov 4 #225
EmeraldCoaster Nov 4 #228
mopinko Nov 4 #229
ancianita Nov 4 #231
soldierant Nov 4 #233
Richard58 Nov 4 #235
ananda Nov 5 #236
argyl Nov 5 #237
GetRidOfThem Nov 5 #238
olegramps Nov 5 #241
randr Nov 5 #245

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:47 AM

1. I view it as half the population is gullible and brainwashed.

We have to hack the brainwashing machines (Fux, Falsebook, Twit). We can do this.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:44 AM

88. And don't forget hate radio.

Thatís a big part of it, too, seeping into the rural areas where radio is a prevailing companion on long empty roads. Like a slow poison.

Hate radio has to be bought up, station by station, and with format changes imposed. Play the hits. Make it Muzak. No talk more music. New owners: you can syndicate oldies for cheap!

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Response to calimary (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:46 AM

89. Yes! Point is, their gullibility is their vulnerability. We can easily hack them if we try.

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Response to calimary (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:56 AM

100. Yes!!!!!! Nt!

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Response to calimary (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:29 PM

127. Yep

that's why the madman gave rush the Medal of Freedom.. And now I have to puke

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Response to calimary (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:41 PM

132. Absolutely!

A few years ago I had to drive cross country several times. It is appalling what is on local radio. Tune in it get a weather report/traffic report and get a healthy dose of right wing propaganda. Couple that with all the dodgy religious programming and an alternate universe is created.

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Response to calimary (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:57 PM

141. calimary....

100%....The damage that Limbaugh and those of his ilk have done CAN NOT be overstated! And your narrative could not be more spot on.....

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Response to calimary (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 07:30 PM

219. once rush bites the dust (with no capable to take his place)

hate radio will loose influence

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Response to calimary (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:49 PM

223. They are privately owned stations

or chains. Not much chance of making them change. They are owned or backed in some cases by people who can afford to run them without a profit even if they lose advertisers.

Instead of changing them, we would do better to develop our own stations and media chains that deliver accurate reporting and support for our values, combined with entertainment that draws people in. These stations could have guests, discussions of issues, programs with topics on political norms and how government works. But entertainment is important to make it fun, in the form of music, comedians, call-in game shows with political and social questions, and maybe some old and new radio dramas. I know of a station that does radio dramas (usually old mysteries) that are popular in their listening area.

Compete hate radio out of their market by providing better alternatives. Added bonus of getting reliable information to low info people.

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Response to calimary (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:16 PM

234. today limbaugh started by saying trump won, called Kamala 'kommie' for short, after he called her

"ho" as in "joe and the ho" when biden chose her VP, and claimed her call to count the ballots was proof dems were trying to steal the election because ballots are not votes......

and "kommie" will be her nickname among trumpers

From fakenewsradio.org 94 radio†stations in 6 critical states, featuring Limbaugh, often including the loudest in any state, depend on 24 universities to keep crapping on their mission statements and†broadcasting sports on them to help them†use those associations to attract advertisers.

In Pennsylvania†14 †Limbaugh stations, often the loudest in the state depend on 3 Pennsylvania universities ó †Penn St. 11, Pittsburgh 2, Temple 1.

In Florida,†20 Limbaugh stations ó †Florida 10, Florida St. 4 Miami 2, South Florida 2, Central Florida 2

In Michigan,†19 †ó††Michigan St. 11, Michigan 7, Western Michigan 1

In North Carolina,†16 ó †North Carolina 8, North Carolina State 3, Duke 3, East Carolina 2

In Ohio,†10 ó †Ohio St. 6, Toledo 1, Dayton 1, Bowling Green 1, Xavier 1

In Georgia 14 ó †Georgia 7, Georgia Tech 5, Georgia Southern 2

And in Arizona ó††Arizona St. 1

All those schools are good places to protest because as long as they can be used to attract advertising they†are helping Trump. It is irrelevant how†a particular school†reacts to activism that gets media attention to this issue because it will†scare advertisers and will attract activism to the other schools including at least 64 other universities that do the same.

The advertising industry will worry about a trend and if they finally†have to start asking advertisers if they actually support trump, racism,†global warming in order to protect them from boycotts and bad PR the RW radio monopoly will have to be broken up. The ad industry wants those 50 million pairs of ears and they donít want to have to ask those questions.

Along with artificial intelligence making it easy, cheap, and accurate for any activist to transcribe their local blowhards and list advertisers with little listening required the ad industry will have to act and put Limbaugh and sons out to pasture.

Not to mention that Limbaugh, who told millions for years that smoking doesnít cause lung cancer,†is dying from terminal stage 4 lung cancer. The talk radio monopoly that made Trump possible and††keeps Republicans in these elections and is now calling for disrupting†the vote counts was made for him and he canít be replaced with one person. Theyíre going to lose a lot of ad revenue when he croaks.†

All the advertisers, universities, and pro sports teams broadcasting on 1500 Republican talk radio stations share responsibility for the Trump COVID disasters, and they need to be told.

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Response to certainot (Reply #234)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 03:07 PM

248. And limbaugh won't be around much longer.

There will be others scrambling to claim his ďcrownĒ but the loss will be great (in several senses of the word!).

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Response to calimary (Reply #248)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 06:55 PM

249. i hope he gets to see trump hauled out of the white house like what's his name in fargo at the end

when he tries to escape out the motel window

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Response to certainot (Reply #249)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 07:41 PM

250. And there better be an inspection of all luggage and crates and other stuff leaving the White House

as of, well, maybe, TONIGHT.

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Response to calimary (Reply #250)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:01 AM

251. they will steal and i'll bet every first family gets some slack but staff needs to watch the gold...

tonight would be nice but they're saying penn and georgia might take a few hours

lost a lot of sleep lately, not sure how long i'll stay up. it would be sad if the morning joe crew got to break it

on the positive side a republican insider says the republican establishment is really sick of trump. their future is tied to how he leaves

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:13 PM

150. many of those are racist, self centred

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:49 PM

165. I'm shocked

that 50% of Americans are pure racists and don't care that over 200,000 Americans have died from Covid 19 due to trump's incompetence. How do we fight that or do we have to wait for them to die?

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #165)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:02 PM

226. We fight it by taking back the word "patriot"

Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:45 AM - Edit history (1)

and giving people alternative leadership. Take back the flag, too. RWers do not own it.

Be proud of who we are and what we stand for.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #226)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:54 AM

243. We're the country of Lincoln and King and Guthrie and Chisolm and Gompers and Darrow

When you create opportunity, you get capitalist leeches. Every country in the world has this problem. We're not perfect, we've done atrocities as bad as any country in the world. But we also pioneered traditions of looking out for the little guy, expanding democracy to include a multiracial society, championing equality for women. Those are our traditions and we should uphold them and carry them forward against the reactionaries and scaredy cats who want to turn society backwards.

We have to live in hope instead of fear.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #243)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:27 AM

244. Completely agree. Hope over fear.

Confidence over anxiety. Lead America into a better future than the present.

Trump has appealed to the worst in human nature. We will bring out the best. It won't be easy and we will have opposition. But we can do it. We have before. We will again.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:48 AM

2. I can't stomach lying cheating thieving Republicans. I ❤️ America.

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Response to live love laugh (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:08 PM

114. +1

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Response to live love laugh (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 07:17 AM

239. +2

I love this country and its ideals and its cluttered history of not living up to those ideals... See we only know that we haven't lived up to our potential because there's always voices speaking truth to power and advancing the real calling of the Enlightenment that started this country off.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:48 AM

3. I'm having trouble keeping perspective too. Take a break. Keep up from reliable news sites

and look after yourself. Otherwise, you'll be taking off the heads of all you encounter as I felt like doing last night.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:49 AM

4. Last night has taught me that I need to move out of this country.

I praying that Biden holds on, and that buys me 4 years to get out.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:58 AM

25. This Is Exactly Where I'm At

I see things getting worse for decades to come. I'm 54, and I don't want to spend the latter years of my life living through the decline of America.

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Response to sfstaxprep (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:17 AM

47. Don't blame you. I'm trapped by age and health without the

option to leave. The last 4 years have been so stressful, and I'm starved for relief from it, some mental peace. Not how I imagined my last years. Would definitely leave if I could.

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Response to moonscape (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:45 PM

134. Hubby and I feel same way

64 & 71. He wants to move and I said where? And we don't have enough money and what would healthcare there be like...

I just feel like I spent the last 4 yrs holding my breath and just want a peaceful retirement.

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Response to moonscape (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:12 PM

232. Too late for me

My wife and i feel so out of step with America that we talked about leaving for years. It never worked out and now it's too late due to health concerns. We're comfortable financially, so we'll just hunker down and ride it out for what is left of our lives.

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Response to sfstaxprep (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:42 AM

87. I'm 54 too and feel the same way.

I know the "stay and fight" thing is strong, but I just want peace. Hubby got a remote job in Montreal, so I'm trying to convince him that maybe we should entertain the idea of moving there.

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Response to onlyadream (Reply #87)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:10 PM

116. I'm right there with you...

Been fighting since Vietnam and have been glad to do what i could. But fighting is for the young and I just want peace now. Just gimme some truth and peace.

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #116)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:02 PM

144. world wide wally....

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #144)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:53 PM

167. Thanks... Love it!

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:00 AM

27. Exactly.

This is my thinking as well.

It's clear that we will never return to a functional democracy (if we ever were one) and the next time, the pendulum will swing in the opposite direction for good.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:16 AM

46. At 73 this isn't practical for me

but I'm encouraging my grandchildren to explore other options

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:46 AM

90. Yes!!!!! Too Old to Leave Now

Yes, I am too old to leave now. I have been begging my husband to immigrate since 2000. I have Medicare here and really can't leave and don't want to go without hubby. But I encourage our daughter and son in law and any young person to get out while they can.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:27 AM

69. Son and daughter-in-law fast expressed two passports

for their little girls, 2 and 3 yrs old. Yesterday, they were prepared to get out.

Not sure about right now.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:00 PM

106. Where will you go that doesn't have the ills that you "leave behind"?

No place on earth like that, unless you can find a place untouched by people and have no contact with people.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #106)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:02 PM

107. Toronto, Canada.

A sane nation. Not perfect by any means, but it is sane.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:53 PM

137. I moved out 12 years ago

now in the UK.

Different geography same shit show...

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 07:22 AM

240. Bah! People always say they're gonna leave the US. They never do.

It's all talk. I hope each of you find your peace. I'm skeptical that there's a better chance of finding your bliss in Costa Rica. I've had three different friends try to move overseas. They each came back chastised by the experience.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:49 AM

5. I love the idea of and the ideals of...

the idealized country taught in childrenís books.

The reality...not so much.

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:54 AM

19. The reality-stupid, lazy and selfish.

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Response to Boomerproud (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:05 AM

34. A nation of spoiled children...

A nation of spoiled trust-fund babies that believe that everything...from bridges to sunny skies...is eternal and the birthright of anyone that looks and prays like them.

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:48 AM

93. I accept that a culture doesn't always live up to it's ideals.

That being said, normal people, moral people, rational people are embarrassed by their failures. Apparently our cultural ideals only matter to the GOP when they can be held against Democrats, actually expecting the GOP to try to live up to them is a fools errand.

As for normal emotions of not living up to your ideals, it's just more evidence that the GOP followers are no longer able to experience shame, empathy or reason. I don't believe it was always thus, but as the saying goes power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:34 PM

130. "America - it was a good idea"...

That replaces "E pluribus unum" for my little motto pick.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:49 AM

6. I thought we had progressed since my dad's time,

the Great Depression, where votes were bought and the klan ruled, but I now realize we haven't progressed that much at all in some areas.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:50 AM

7. I feel exactly the same. It's a desire to live among people who value science, act with morals

and decency, and treat all living things humanely.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:51 AM

10. I feel like crying.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:05 PM

147. Goodheart.....

I just posted John Lennon's Just Give Me Some Truth and I feel better. It feels more empowering to feel angry than sad....Try giving it a listen and see if it helps.....

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:51 AM

95. The mouth-breathing, know-nothing trophy hunters (picture DJT Jr.)

are starting to make me physically ill.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:24 PM

155. sinking feeling.....

That's the thing. It's about CORE VALUES!!!...being a decent human being!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:51 AM

8. There's a sucker born every minute

Although maybe PT Barnum didn't say it, the phrase has been in use since the mid-19th Century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_minute

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:51 AM

9. I did love it, but I DON'T any longer!!!

It would be like loving Germany when it's occupied by 43% Nazis!!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:51 AM

11. Our country's soul is rotten to its core

And thatís probably not going to change in my lifetime and Iím early middle age.

The rest of the world looks upon us with puzzlement, contempt and horror. Justifiably so. I wish my ancestors had never left Scotland and Ireland.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:18 AM

48. I agree.

I wish my ancestors had stayed in Cornwall and Lincolnshire and my husbands had stayed in Ireland. It is depressing watching this great experiment fail. We simply have too many ignorant, greedy people and they seem to
have the upper hand. Please let us all turn our backs on Florida. It is lost in more ways than one. Climate change may help sink some of it.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:19 AM

50. Agree!

I am right there with you!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:52 AM

12. I love the blue aspects of this country

and have had it with the red parts.

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Response to mtnsnake (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:41 PM

131. Without the blue parts of this country

The red parts wouldn't be able to survive.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:52 AM

13. Right with you

Iím disgusted by what Iím seeing.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:52 AM

14. I empathize with you. Can NOT understand the large vote for a

con-man, a crook, a racist, mysogynist, an uneducated incompetent, who is vengeful, a liar, hypocrite, bully, totally selfish, physically ugly, charmless.....and more.......UGH! And is proud of himself for all that! And all of this is PUBLIc KNOWLEDGE!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:53 AM

15. I'm with you 100%

This country disgusts me. I consider myself a citizen of the world and don't feet much loyalty to this country. I'd move to Canada if I could in a heartbeat.

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Response to bif (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:56 AM

21. Me too

But Iím 64 and no other country wants me.
Wish my great-grandparents had never gotten on that boat from England.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:02 AM

29. I'm 66 and semi-retired

But one can hope!

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Response to bif (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:19 AM

53. I felt loyalty to the country I grew up in, but not this one n/t

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:53 AM

16. I'm here to help fulfill our ideals

I embrace what we yearn to be. Weíre still a very young nation. Growing pains are to be expected.

Weíre still a work in progress.

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Response to soothsayer (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 07:23 AM

242. Thank you

beautifully said

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:53 AM

17. We have never stopped fighting the Civil War. It is evident.

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Response to Ninga (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:56 AM

22. Exactly. I didn't understand how the interests of the Alt-Right and Christian

Nationalists intersected until I read The Power Worshippers by Katherine Stewart and Unholy by Sara Posner.

This is something we cannot ignore any longer. Although, I am not sure how we fight it. It is global and extremely well funded.

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Response to Mike 03 (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:03 AM

32. Yes not only what you point out, but added is the 30 year campaign by Right wing media hammering

Democrats into a mold that cries out socialism.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:53 AM

18. No, but I do now know that

nearly half the Country want to burn down our Democracy, and along with it they would like to line people like me up in front of a trench and shoot.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:54 AM

20. I'm on the same wavelength. It's very hard to accept what is becoming too obvious to

ignore. A huge segment of our population would accept authoritarian dictatorship and has had enough of democracy. People here will say, "We knew that," but in fairness I didn't know the number of them was so great.

This is going to be the conflict of our times. Hyperpartisan populism is on the upswing in Europe too.

It's almost unspeakable: people are rejecting Democracy. They want a strongman to tell them what to do and make every problem go away.

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Response to Mike 03 (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:12 PM

149. It's so sad

We are at this juncture, Horrible. I just hope all votes are counted.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:58 AM

23. There's too many poorly educated Americans.

I have no desire to live near rural dummies nor near urban areas with horribly-rated public schools (at least in my area), but the islands of higher education seem to get more narrow over time in this country.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:18 PM

184. +1 for the first statement.

but I live near rural dummies. you just learn to live the life of a loner, for the most part, it is cheaper than some blue spots.

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Response to peacebuzzard (Reply #184)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:35 PM

187. Yeah, it's generally less expensive.

I was fortunate to attend a highly-rated suburban public school, apparently, because I was repeatedly SHOCKED by what some recent coworkers didn't know. The company was located about 25 miles away from my home in a semi-rural area, and most of the other employees had attended smaller rural schools in that area.

Their major shortcomings were science-related, even very basic topics. One coworker expressed great dismay to recently learn that yogurt contained "little bugs" after she read in a magazine that's how it helped digestion, so she declared that she'd never eat yogurt again. I pointed out that microbes and yeast were all around us and in all food to some degree, but that just agitated her even more.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #187)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:44 PM

190. lol!!

that is great. I have heard about the "little bugs" in another language describing the culture of yogurt. How funny!
Glad to find humor again. Its been a long 4 years.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:45 PM

191. I'm sorry if there's too much riff-raff for the enlightened ones.

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Response to DTomlinson (Reply #191)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:49 PM

196. It's not easy.

Only 6% of scientists identify as Republicans according to a survey from a few years ago, and I'm sorry if that kind of Democratic support isn't welcome.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:58 AM

24. We didn't plan our move to Costa Rica politically.

But once here, politically thrilled we are here. Applying for Residency.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:00 AM

28. How's the weather there?

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:23 AM

62. It's tropical. Different all over though.

Two coasts. They are warmer more humid.
We chose Lake Arenal in the mountains. We have a million dollar view of the Lake and across the street is a rain forest.

So we have lots of tropical rain. But mountain breezes and the tourist season is very nice. Sorta like Florida inthe sense you can follow the sun around. Up here there is little air conditioning.

There are so many different ecosystems.

I know people who would love living here. Others would hate it. Bugs are huge and plentiful. Snakes. We found a tarantula a month ago. But we love all that stuff.
https://postimg.cc/GBVQVynq]
[/img

https://postimg.cc/30CFkf4c]




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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #62)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:19 PM

151. What do your monthly expenses total?

Can a modest pensioner live in CR? Asking for a friend. And myself.

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Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #151)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:33 PM

159. Well we lost 75% of our retirement with Bush' depression.

I donít really want to reveal all the costs.
But We have a very cute 1 bedroom Cabina with use of a pool. $700 a month.
Would be much cheaper if it didnít have the view.

To get Residency you need at least $1000 per person in SS, income, or annuities. We do make that.

Although 90% off the fossil fuels, CR has the 2nd most $$ electricity in the world
But we need no heat or AC where we live.

Food is about the same as US but US brands costly. Hormel bacon about $11 and Johnsonville brats about $10 for five. If you can find them. An hour away is Liberia with airport, Walmart, PriceSmart and almost everyfast food.

Gas is $5 a gallon.

If you move here, be prepared to buy a car here. We shipped our Kia and it is really costly to fix. US Kia parts from Mexico and Tico Kia parts are from China. Not interchangeable. Trust me on that on.
You would have to get new phone service.
Until you get residency you have to prepay phone service.

Everyone here uses Whatís App

Labor is cheap. $2-4 per hour. No lawn mowers in this part. Handymen use weedwhackers for everything. Lots of expats have housekeepers and ground keepers.

A pretty nice house for under $200000
In a nice community. But a house can be found livable for $100000 or less.



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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #159)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 02:22 PM

172. THANKS!

We're not pork eaters, but thank you for the comparisons.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:34 AM

74. health care?

I would LOVE to leave, at this point. But Canada is quite strict with its policy, no matter the friendliness and proximity. I need good healthcare for my wife and I - she's a cancer survivor - and I'm not bad off, but I'm not young. Retiring in 30 days.

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Response to Golfnbrew (Reply #74)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:56 AM

101. If we get residency we get universal health care.

Our application has recently been completed and sent to immigration. Nothing is certain. Sometimes takes six months sometimes years.

It is a much bigger undertaking than we thought. Read lots of books. Lots of YouTubeís in living wherever you choose.
Believe nothing you read. Including me.
Once here we realized everyoneís experience is very different yet very much the same.
You have to be a patient person. Where ever you go there will be expat groups. Ours teaches Spanish for free. Find them.
If you can find one Ex-pat that knows everything itís a godsend. We lucked out tremendously on that. Them we made one Tico friend that speaks excellent English. Those two and an expat group are the best avenue into the culture.

Edit: LIVING in a new country is 100% different than visiting for a week.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:59 AM

26. That is an extremely complicated question, from Hawai'i.

We are a family of veterans back to the Revolution, Civil War, WWII, Korea, Vietnam.

We are a family from the illegally overthrown Kingdom of Hawaiíi.

I love the people fighting for the future and standing in line to vote and marching and kneeling, John Lewis and Elijah Cummings and RBG and Thurgood Marshall and Barack Obama. And Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and Jeff Merkley and Al Franken.

Can I love the motherfuckers like Cawthorne, 25, never held a job before and now a US Representative of NC CD11 who last night tweeted ďCry more, libsĒ? Not at the moment, no. He defeated Moe Davis, see bio immediately below. I bet he could use some help retiring campaign debt. Iíll give some more and I hope DU will too.

Anyway.

I am able to hold this moment in complicated duality and holding more complex multiple truths.
I am Christian but not a good enough Christian to love the cretins who are working to end our democracy just now.

But I do love you, DU. Hold fast.

Moe Davis is a retired Air Force Colonel, Director of the Air Force Judiciary and former Chief Prosecutor at Guantanamo Bay. He has been a law professor, judge, speaker, writer and national security expert for Congress.

Add to that a list of honors Davis has earned that includes the prestigious Legion of Merit, six Meritorious Service Medals, the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal and Headquarters Air Force Judge Advocate of the Year award, among others.

If that were all he accomplished in his life, Col. Davis would already have a career unmatched by most. And yet, that is not what truly defines him. It is the decisions made and the stands he has taken in the critical gut-check moments of his life that make Col. Moe Davis the right candidate to represent North Carolinaís 11th District in Congress.

Morris D. Davis, the son of a man 100 percent disabled by an accident while in the Army preparing to serve in World War II, was born and raised in Shelby, N.C. He graduated from Appalachian State and North Carolina Central School of Law. Shortly after Davis passed the bar exam, his father died of a heart attack. In part to honor his father, Davis decided to join the Air Force, the start of a 25-year career of service in the military, eventually rising to the rank of Colonel. That service began with an oath to the Constitution.

He put his entire career on the line to take a stand for that oath.

DOWNLOAD MOE'S CV
In 2007, while serving as Chief Prosecutor for Terrorism Trials at Guantanamo Bay, Col. Davis dared to publicly take on the Bush Administration. He refused an order to use evidence obtained through torture, believing it was both immoral and illegal and the evidence unreliable. That decision came at a price; to uphold his principles and maintain his oath, Col. Davis had no choice but to resign his prestigious position as Chief Prosecutor at Guantanamo Bay.

For his stand against torture and the political pressure placed on prosecutors at Guantanamo, the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) honored Col. Davis by including him in, ďThose Who Dared: 30 Officials Who Stood Up For Our Country.Ē

That was not the last time Col. Davis stood up for what he believed was right. In 2009, after retiring from the Air Force, he was working as an assistant director and senior specialist in national security for the Congressional Research Service at the Library of Congress. But when he wrote an opinion piece for The Wall Street Journal that was critical of the Obama Administrationís handling of prosecutions at Guantanamo Bay, Col. Davis was fired.

Davis challenged his dismissal in court, arguing that the First Amendment protected the free speech rights of government employees. Represented by the ACLU, he ultimately won a settlement in his suit. He was honored with the Justice Charles E. Whittaker Award for professional courage and integrity, and was given the Hugh M. Hefner First Amendment Award.

Why take a stand and risk his career again and again? As Col. Davis said, borrowing from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.ís familiar theme, ďItís always the right time to do the right thing.Ē

Col. Davis went on to become a law professor at the historic Howard University and served four years as a judge with the U.S. Department of Labor before moving to Asheville, where he and his wife Lisa recently built their home. They have one daughter, Ashley, who lives in Falls Church, Virginia.

Back home in North Carolina, Davis is taking a stand once again in his life. He hopes to serve as Congressman in the 11th District and give Western North Carolina a true voice in Washington.

Experience. Leadership. Integrity.

Moe.




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Response to mahina (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:04 PM

146. Thanks for saying what I have been thinking!

I will save your words on my desktop next to the words of John Lewis: ďNever give up. Never give in. Never become hostileÖ Hate is too big a burden to bear.Ē

I am in NC 11 and I am appalled that we elected Cawthorne. I know he just benefited from being down-ballot from Trump...but for crying out loud!

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Response to mtngirl47 (Reply #146)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 03:45 PM

178. ❤️

🤙🏼🤙🏼

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:03 AM

30. I still love this country.

In spite of the fact that it has plenty of flaws. There are also many great things.

Stay off of social media and cable news stations, and your life will improve.

The travel bans are just that, and will go away in 2021 (once the vaccine takes hold). But after that, immigration isn't easy, and you might not like what you find (for different reasons).

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Response to Steelrolled (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:04 AM

33. I want to live in Toronto. Most diverse, welcoming place I've ever been.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:19 AM

51. My daughter lives there.

She married a Canadian citizen. She says they have their share of assholes, too.

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Response to murielm99 (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:38 AM

80. We have LOTS of racism. Ask any First Nations member.

We are just quieter about it. Itís easy to hide your flaws when you live next to the US.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #80)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:13 PM

117. Conversely, there is a growing part of American culture that says "we are shit".

There are many reasons I imagine, but I think that the Internet, cables news, and social media have amplified it. People seem to want to be a little louder, a little coarser, etc. A great example is the fact that the word "literal" has lost its meaning.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #80)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:32 PM

129. I agree

Iím a person of color and lived in Canada from age 1-18. I experienced the worst racism of my life in Alberta (where Ai spent my childhood).

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Response to murielm99 (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:20 PM

152. But they

have no tRump.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:37 AM

76. Believe it or not there are things better in the US than here.

For instance, we do not have an equivalent to the Americans with disabilities act. We donít have a federal mandate to guarantee education to children with special needs. We donít have a federally mandated school lunch program. A lot of things in Canada are left up to the provinces and Iím gonna be honest with you a lot of them are pretty bad with it.

The grass is always greener until you have to live with it.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #76)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:22 PM

122. So, are you planning to move back to the US?

You shouldn't have to put up with awful BC, Canada.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #122)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 02:02 PM

168. Honestly I do miss it for things like education for special needs kids.

An IEP doesnít hold the same weight here as it does in the US.

And yes my husband put in an application for his green card.

Nice try at the gotcha though! You get a gold star for the attempt.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #168)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 02:19 PM

171. Really? An IEP in all states in the US carries a greater weight than...

in B.C., Canada?

BC government policy regarding Students with Special Needs:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/education-training/k-12/administration/legislation-policy/public-schools/special-education


Individual Education Plan Order

http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/legislation/schoollaw/e/m638-95.pdf



US Dept of Education policy on Students with Special Needs:

Please note that in the U.S., the federal role in education is limited. Because of the Tenth Amendment, most education policy is decided at the state and local levels. So, if you have a question about a policy or issue, you may want to check with the relevant organization in your state or school district.

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/landing.jhtml

So, it seems like States are primarily responsible for policies for Students with Special Needs just like Canada.

Which States do you prefer and feel have better policies than BC, Canada?

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Response to Spazito (Reply #171)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 03:10 PM

173. I deal with this daily with my 2 special needs kids.

The province is also supposed to give funding to the districts for kids with ASD diagnosis. They donít always. They do not always follow the IEP and you have no recourse. Who you going to sue?

But you who donít live here and donít have to deal with this can just pretend that you know better because you are so busy being so American by hating being an American.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #173)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 03:29 PM

175. I did live there, in BC, and worked on policy for Children with Special Needs, both at...

the local and Provincial level. It looks like your issue is at the School District level and it's Special Needs Program and who is making the decision on allocation of funds. You can go to the Principal first which may not get you anywhere and, if that is the case, you then go to the Board, attend their public meetings, go to the media, and even lodge a complaint with the Ministry of Education after you follow all the tedious processes.

I am going to guess you live in a District where the 'Liberals' (they are actually an amalgam of failed conservative parties) were in power as they tend to 'reallocate' Special Needs funding, sadly.

Are you happy the NDP won with such a great turnout? The NDP certainly has shown a greater concern for special needs children than any 'Liberal' government, that's for sure.

I am ignoring your vitriol assuming it is venting.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #175)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 06:28 PM

208. Your gotchas are so fail it's almost hilarious.

Here let me play along. No I wish the liberals still ruled! Is that what you want? Sorry, not going to get that.

Our riding has been NDP. And the NDP hasnít done anymore. Likely because they were held back by the cons who recycle prior to the recent election. Maybe now that they donít need he greens they can handle things better. They havenít delivered smaller class sizes. My grade 6 kid is in a class of 28. With 1 EA balancing 3 kids with varying degrees of ASD. Donít tell me thatís just a district issue. Thatís a provincial issue too because if you visit any BC group for parents of special needs children you will see the same complaint over and over all through the province. Added to that is exclusion practices that have driven many special-needs parents into unwanted homeschooling situations.

So stop acting like itís a bed of roses here.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #208)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 06:42 PM

212. There is nowhere that is a bed of roses and that includes...

your homeland.

I do think our education system is better as is our healthcare system but each to our own.

The needs of Children with Special Needs have never been addressed fully, sadly, because funding is never adequate regardless of which country we are discussing.

I hope your husband gets his green card soon, you obviously would be happier in your home country and I sincerely hope you are able to receive the care and support your children need.

I admit there were some gotchas and there probably should not have been, you have enough on your plate with three children in need of the care and attention you seek for them.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #212)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:40 AM

246. I think you vented enough.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #171)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 03:12 PM

174. I deal with this daily with my 2 special needs kids.

The province is also supposed to give funding to the districts for kids with ASD diagnosis. They donít always. They do not always follow the IEP and you have no recourse. Who you going to sue?

But you who donít live here and donít have to deal with this can just pretend that you know better because you are so busy being so American by hating being an American. So hip.

My home state of NY does better, at least from the perspective of my family members who are teachers of children with diverse learning needs. California which is where I lived before I came here was ok.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #174)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 03:31 PM

176. I see you added info re NY and California...

Do you have a link to the Special Needs policy from each of those States? I would love to read them. Thanks.

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Response to EllieBC (Reply #174)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:44 AM

247. He's trolling you. Ignore him.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:42 AM

86. That's my home!

I love this place. So many different people from so many parts of the world, I love just walking down the street and hearing all the different languages used even if I can't understand a word said.

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Response to Steelrolled (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 03:46 PM

180. Appreciated

Good points

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:03 AM

31. I still love the country, but I despise that 40% of my fellow Americans

don't understand the fundamental principles of our founding, and are ready to give up democracy because they don't really understand why they suffer and have been told to blame progressive policies.

It comes down to: how much compassion can one have for people who are severely ignorant and gullible?

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Response to Mike 03 (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:05 AM

35. Only 40%? You're being generous.

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Response to Mike 03 (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:22 AM

58. It's more like 48-49

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Response to Mike 03 (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:30 PM

230. Then we need to fight back with

Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:51 AM - Edit history (1)

info programs. We need to find and create ways to upgrade the general population's knowledge level. Instead of mourning their ignorance and wishing they were different we could form local groups and brainstorm what we can do to promote our own values. Acting is therapeutic and more productive than feeling helplessly victimized by the ignorance of others.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:07 AM

36. I love the concept and the ideals. We have never lived up to those ideals,

and our history is full of terrible things that we don't like to talk about, like slavery and genocide and discrimination and oppression. I think those bad things have festered for a very long time, at least in part because we (by "we" I mean mostly privileged white people) got away with those things and we internalized them. As a country we became prosperous because we stole the land of Native people and the labor of enslaved Black people. But we don't like to think about that because it was terrible and we got away with it. We have gotten away with so many bad things that we think we are entitled to keep doing them without recognizing how bad they are. So we enable a government that refuses to help the poor, that refuses to educate its children, that refuses to treat its sick, and we keep getting away with it as long as we can make ourselves believe that those others deserve what happens to them and we aren't responsible.

When I was in grade school learning American history in the late '50s/early '60s we were taught about "Manifest Destiny," the idea that American settlers in the 19th century were entitled to the land they took from Native people, who didn't deserve that land, because the settlers were destined by God to remake the continent for themselves. All we learned about slavery was that it was bad but Lincoln freed the slaves so it's all fine now. We were fat, dumb, happy little white kids who believed America was the best country in the world and we were therefore the best people in the world because that's what we were taught, even if not in so many words.

It took the Vietnam war to make me start realizing that most of what I'd learned about our history was bullshit. And the older I get the more I understand that we are not such hot shit after all. It's been a process of great disillusionment to compare what we should be to what we are.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:13 AM

41. You said it so much better than I did.

I grew up when you did as a little white, albeit not privileged, girl and was taught all those things in an all white, rural classroom. The difference is that I had parents and one grandparent who disavowed me of most of the stuff I was taught in school. I was told to fake saying the pledge of allegiance (even that term "allegiance" didn't sit right with me) and never to say "Under God". My parents were not churchgoers or affiliated with any religion. My mother and father taught me to question everything. And yes, the Viet Nam war reinforced everything they taught me.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:41 AM

84. Word.

With you on this.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:22 PM

121. Fortunately the teaching of history has improved, in my experience

My education was 10-20 years after yours, but still quite a long time ago. So there were big events (including the loss of the Vietnam war) that were behind us. One thing that was really valuable was a history teacher who would take one class a week for discussion of current events - it was a dose of reality.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:42 PM

162. +1000

Eloquently stated and absolutely true.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:08 AM

37. I don't know that I've ever gone so far as to say I love this country.

Even as a young child I always wondered why we thought we were so great as a country or that some accident of birth landed me here instead of somewhere else. I would think about all those people in other countries who loved their countries too because that's where they were born and where their roots were.

I do not believe in nationalistic fervor and extreme "patriotism", whatever that looks like. It's why all this outward show of the stupid trump humpers by having the largest flags, being the loudest to proclaim how much they love this country makes my skin crawl.

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Response to llmart (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 03:47 PM

181. Those belligerently ignorant bigots waving the American flag,

often alongside the battle flag of the Confederacy which waged a bloody war against our nation, while supporting & practically worshipping, as president, a blatantly mendacious sociopath who has never even read the US Constitution do not love this country.

I'm trying not to give up hope that this nation can someday live up to the best, most enlightened version of the ideals of its founding. As one person with little money or power, I have scant hope of bringing that about.

As part of a group working with common purpose, its possible I could help move the US toward the ideal. But it's hard to keep that faith when our opponents have so much wealth & power and such a fervant intention to move it in the opposite direction.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:09 AM

38. I know we can do better that we can BE better

I just have no idea how to get there.

We have allowed the lunatic fringe to become the mainstream.

How do we reign that in to move forward?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:10 AM

39. We just VOTED OUT a dictator. There was no violence at the polls

Other countries have been to this precipice and failed. Letís grab the moment, celebrate, and do more.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:14 AM

43. When did they call the election for Biden?

n/t

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:12 AM

40. i agree with you.........

even if biden BARELY eeks out a win here... there is little doubt that trumpism has metastasized into this soul of this nation and isn't going anywhere. in any other country on earth this election wouldn't even be close. maybe brazil or NK..... but this nation has been DRAGGED kicking and screaming far to the right..........

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:13 AM

42. If I didn't live in Oakland

Iíd be looking to leave

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #42)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:47 AM

92. Same here, but Portland. And we're still mulling over a "Trexit"

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:14 AM

44. I went back and forth

I landed on I love this country and no way will allow these asshole to chase me out of my home. We need to stay and fight and not let them take our country away from us.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:16 AM

45. Deeply disturbed

For the life of me cannot understand why 60+million people still voted for Trump after seeing the crap show he has done for the last 4 years. They overlooked all his lies, 220+ deaths from the virus, his obstruction of justice, and impeachment. Why??? Only thing that comes to mind is racism. Somebody please explain it to me.

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Response to jonstl08 (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:19 AM

52. I think you got it

It's just hard to accept

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Response to jonstl08 (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:25 AM

65. Racism is it. Many kinds of racism: anti-immigrant, anti change, etc., BUT ACCEPTANCE TOO...

Anti Latino, etc...etc...and etc......One thing is true, ....Yes, lots of racism but in lots and lots of places,

lots and lots of "ACCEPTANCE"....

the electoral college is ..........not a TRUE REFLECTION OF THE U.S.A...

NOW........Biden has a clear lead in number of votes...hit link below....


https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=vOT&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGNI_enUS494US495&q=voting+results&gs_l=hp..0.0i433i131l4j0i433i131i457j41l3.0.0.0.11320...........0.QLD_Semdojg#spf=1604507557340

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #65)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:29 PM

156. Biden has

238 EV, he just needs 32 more to meet the requirement.

There is still some hope.

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Response to jonstl08 (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:55 AM

99. Engrained rascism for sure. Add cutthroat capitalism/ corporatism at the expense of your citizenry

and it's hard to defend. Decades of stagnant wages and soaring costs have crippled what was a vibrant middle class. I can't answer your question as to why so many choose to ignore facts (willfully ignorant and proud of it) and choose to embrace a sociopath. Makes little sense unless you feel maligned and see a savior? Closest I can come. Welcome to DU!

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Response to jonstl08 (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:08 PM

113. Racism + the silence on racism desired . Greed -A big sector of wealth that doesn't want

any regulations or anything like ACA but plenty of subsidies for corporations and convinces peon workers repugs are for the best in life then adding racist arguements to support the greed.

Modern Jesus can also lead them to trump love strongholds

People clinging to The Covid not bad enough for masks and closures- The Freedumbs

Those are my tops

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:18 AM

49. I'm disheartened that this could even be close - again

I had hoped that 2016 was a fluke, brought on in part by decades of focused right-wing hit jobs on our candidate. This time we run a middle-of-the-road white male with integrity light years ahead of Trump and we're looking at basically the same kind of popular vote margins?

This period of history is revealing what many of us have known for a long time about the gulf between our professed ideals and the reality of what white Americans truly believe, and are willing to say at the ballot box. I had a lot of optimism about generational change, the support of youth for Bernie and a progressive agenda, and yet it looks like the GOP is still able to strangle the best of these ideas (regardless of the Biden vote, the Senate seems out of reach and the courts have already been packed).

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:20 AM

54. Be greatful you don't live in TN. I need to relocate to a blue state asap.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:20 AM

55. I don't know how I feel about it right now.

Beyond feeling immensely disappointed. And, sad.

I do share your sentiments about your home state. They apply to mine, as well. South Carolina is a fucking hellhole. Lincoln should have just let them go.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:20 AM

56. Love yes, respect no.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:21 AM

57. I'm still going to fly my USA flag outside AFTER...

... Biden/Harris are the EC winners as I expect, but even that is mostly an act of defiance to any Trumpanzees around here! It's not like I'm actually full of pride in this country!

I haven't displayed that flag since Obama was my President!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:22 AM

59. I hear you

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:22 AM

60. We don't really know how those other countries would be

if they had the electoral college and something like the Senate. Their 40% could exist, they lose because they aren't the majority. Our system lets minority rule happen if its from the right states.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:23 AM

61. Telling my niece earlier

I know the election is not over but was discussing this with my niece earlier. Biden had no scandal. Is a good family man. Policy wise he is left of center so not far left. Only thing that comes to my mind as to why most people voted for Trump due to racism. Hillary had her own scandals which hurt her but the one thing both Hillary and Biden shared was they worked in the Obama White House. I know it should not matter but still feel a lot of people in the country still are upset we elected a Black man as President so they associated Biden with Obama. Plus Biden had a minority woman as his running mate.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:24 AM

63. Its a coalition of the stupid...

The biggest dangers are climate change and that while these idiots teach their kids guns and gods, the Asian and Indian kids are being trained in science and technology. Some day the next generation of these Trumpers will be lucky to be parking the cars of the nerds who will run the future.

These dimwits have no idea how fast they are causing the US to fall behind the advancing world.

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Response to Jon King (Reply #63)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:37 PM

160. Welcome to DU

other than tRump being our biggest danger. Climate change is out there ever changing our environment which is being accelerated and exacerbated by man.

I hope there is a Biden win.

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Response to Jon King (Reply #63)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:11 PM

227. Amen to all that and welcome to DU.

These dimwits have no idea how fast they are causing the US to fall behind the advancing world.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:25 AM

64. I love this country.

I take issue with some of the poorly educated, willfully ignorant people who inhabit it, but that does not mean I do not love them, they are salvageable, I have to believe that fact as there is no where for me to go and sometimes you have to work with what you have.

Your mileage may vary...yes, I love my country.

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Response to cayugafalls (Reply #64)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 05:57 PM

204. ...

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:26 AM

66. Amen Amen Amen

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:26 AM

67. I've spent most of my life trashing Americans

Definitely from a condescending, assholish point of view. But this is a moment I feel you can prove me wrong. I want you to prove me wrong. The world is full of assholes, we know this. But it's also full of good people. I really hope enough good people stay strong and rise to this moment. The thought of another four years of this and what will spill over the border is unbearable.

Minor grammar edit.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:26 AM

68. I'm seriously considering it, too. The only problem is, where? I'm only fluent in English, sadly,

and I'm too old to learn another language. Australia is on fire, New Zealand and Canada won't take me. There aren't many options. Plus, I have 3 cats so I need to think about them, too. Shit.

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Response to catbyte (Reply #68)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:41 AM

83. I always take my long(er) summer vacations in America even though I live in Europe. Here's where:

The outer tip of Cape Cod, Massachusetts. While Mass. has its share of Trumpanzees, the Cape, especially, also has a huge educated population, often extremely environmentally conscious, helpful, engaged, kind, and aware. It is a tourist-based economy with expensive property prices and high local taxes, but if you want to be surrounded by sane, generous, intellectually curious people, that is the place to be. My wife and I have decided that, southerner though I am, born and bred, if we ever move back (for me, that is) to the USA permanently, it's to Massachusetts we will go.

For the record, I have heard that the Santa Fe area of New Mexico is inhabited by an overwhelming majority of similarly pleasant people. A friend of mine who was in the CIA, until Cheney decided to spite her husband by ending her career, ended up moving out there, and she never regretted it.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:29 AM

70. I still love America, but I've become very embarrassed at how backwards we've become

The anti-science, anti-intellectual trend here is deeply concerning.

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Response to Poiuyt (Reply #70)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:07 PM

112. Same here.

I still love my country, but am embarrassed at all the ignorance and hate of a certain amount of people.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:30 AM

71. I think that is an overreaction.

It is common to believe that what sees is what must be seen by any person with vision, that one's own definition of a thing is the only definition, and that those who react differently to our own perceptions must be either mendacious or ignorant. From that standpoint, it is a crushing blow to find that half of the population of the US cannot see what is plainly before them.

Beware that feeling. Flip the coin, and that is just the problem your opponents have with you.

-- Mal

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:31 AM

72. Bull Crap!

If something is worth fighting for it's worth fighting for. My family goes back to 1624. We had people fighting on each side of every conflict since then (except probably the Spanish-American War). This country has always been difficult and contentious. That doesn't mean we should just give up on it.

Yeah, we haven't done so well living up to the founding ideals, but they were at best skewed. They were NOT basically wrong. They are worth fighting for. Perhaps we are all just too soft and used to getting are own way. We really are the spoiled "teenagers" others have accused us of being.

I haven't a clue how, but I intend to spend whatever years I have left in fighting for those things I believe in, like decency, rule of law, respect for others. I'm not willing to give up on this country and its ideals. I'm just not.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:34 AM

73. Yes

Very much feeling this way these days.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:36 AM

75. I honestly didn't realize how many Americans lacked common decency and common sense.

That has depressed the hell out of me. Every single local race in my municipality and county went again to the Republicans. I can't live in this community anymore.

We'd already been considering a move in a few years when our youngest is in college and the pandemic is over. This morning I spent a lot of time cleaning and throwing things away to prepare for a move even sooner. My husband and I have learned we both have jobs that can be done effectively from anywhere in the world. I'd love to emigrate to the UK or a Scandinavian country, but I know that's not remotely realistic. It will be somewhere in the US that is solidly blue.

I've battled for Democratic values to be restored in Florida for almost a quarter century now. I'm worn out. I don't know the exact date or where we'll end up, but we're definitely leaving the place where we raised our kids (they have no interest in returning here after university) and called home for half our lives. We won't look back.



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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:37 AM

78. I've been done with this country for good since '16, the damage is done & no election will change

that for me. Would love to leave this shithole country but no country will take ameriKans unless they are rich or have a super powers skill like Iron man.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:37 AM

79. I am with you

And I served. Draft number was too high to go, but I joined. I am sick I gave that time for this shithole country. I donít wanna hear a single damn thank you this Veterans Day. I will not celebrate, will never stand for that anthem or ever salute the flag until this shit is ended. I will salute every trump with the Natzi straight arm. Fuck Natzi MurKKKa! My oath still applies. Will not hesitate to stand my ground against this shit.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:38 AM

81. Oh yeah that ship has sailed

I'm always 30 and I have to be here for maybe 50-60 years? This fucking country so rotten it's just not even worth it anymore

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:40 AM

82. I hear you

And I feel the same way about my state of North Carolina. I'm having serious talks with the rest of the family about moving to a blue state...we have put up with this shit for too long.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:41 AM

85. Look at it this way, there's a lot to be optimistic about

Regardless of the final election totals, the trend of the GOP's demise is abundantly clear. Demographics are going to continue to work against them. When the GOP has to invest money in Texas just to hold on to it, you know they are swirling the bowl.

What we are seeing now is a wounded beast fighting a losing battle to stay alive. The message given is the GOP is going to have to distance themselves from their creme-de-la-dum if they want to win elections and in doing so they are going to have to move a lot farther left.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:46 AM

91. I'm with you. Even if we take the presidency, the filth in this country will never be cleansed.

ďI know of no other country where love of money has such a grip on menís hearts or where stronger scorn is expressed for the theory of permanent equality of propertyĒ Ė Alexis de Tocqueville

How about adding that we have a beautiful country with lots of natural wonders, but we are allowing it to be raped and demolished for the personal profit of the very few.
They are destroying what belongs to all of us. And I'm most sick of those who live in pristine areas voting AGAINST protecting natural areas. If you are too scared of nature FUCKING MOVE to the burbs. If you don't believe nature should be protected FUCKING MOVE TO HOUSTON.

And all the "religious" white folks. Hey if you are lurking, trolling or if folks here just need a simple confrontational statement here it is:
IF YOU THINK YOU ARE CHRISTIAN and REPUBLICAN, you either don't understand Jesus, or you don't understand republicans.

I'm also sick to death of these obsequious fools waving the flag and shoving it in people's faces while racing toward servile fascism. They don't even understand America. See the whole gun thing isn't about protecting from the government, hell the government could take them out with a drone strike in their sleep. They are just obsessed with the idea of being able to shoot minorities.

But WHERE to go? My wife and I just haven't hit on a great place.

New Zealand and Canada are not wonders of environmental care or equality either. New Zealand is about to allow the fishermen there to destroy the last of the Maui (Hector's) dolphin. Canada is the origin of the tar sands flowing through the Dakota Access Pipeline and still allows fishermen to bash in the heads of baby seals because seals "take all of the fish" DESPITE the fact that there were more fish and MORE SEALS before they started raping the ocean with industrialized fishing (the book COD: A Biography of the Fish that Changed the World covers it well). Both nations still struggle with indigenous rights.
France swings from far left to far right like we do and they were the ones that sank a Greenpeace ship in a port in New Zealand that was out to protest nuclear testing in the Pacific.
I almost had her talked into Ireland, but other nations just promote enough doctors. There isn't really a role for Nurse Practitioners. I'm not even sure that my credentials would transfer.
I keep watching all the articles about where US ex-pats are going hoping something will click as I'm sure they will want US level healthcare there.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:50 AM

94. Not just no but He'll F*cking No!

It is not just illogical but dangerous to have an emotional attachment to a nation state for no other reason than you just happened to be born on that borderless land mass which occupies a miniscule part of a pale blue dot that orbits one of a hundred billion stars in our galaxy. I am one with the late great Kurt Vonnegut. I am a man without a country.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:52 AM

96. I am completely disheartened...

It astonishes me that tRump got the number of votes he did. I cannot understand how there are THAT MANY people in this country that say its Ok to put kids in cages, kill Americans, embrace bat shit crazy conspiracy theories, reject science and treat people as hatefully and ugly as that troll does. We aren't great anymore. As one of my old history professor chums pointed out...what made America great to begin with was exactly what the Right represents now. If tRump wins...America is unrecognizable in 4 years and for generations to come. If Biden wins, it will be a miserable presidency with the Senate wreaking havoc at every turn. There just isn't a silver lining to any of this....and it kills me to know that as a whole we could have been better...but we chose not to.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:52 AM

97. Right there with you GoodHeart. Floridian for the last 22 years and I've begun to look at the

entire country as I once viewed Florida - the dumbfuck state where everything goofy in the news originated. There are so many ignorant goobers n gomers in America now I no longer recognize it as I once did. I am a soon to be 71 year old that is sad beyond comprehension.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:54 AM

98. I'm so disappointed in our country

And really, really sad that so many of our fellow citizens are horrible people.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:57 AM

102. Been struggling with this issue since before I could vote.

Being the child of guitar-mass liberal Catholics turned Reagan voters does that to a sensitive kid.

I love the beauty of the land, I love the vibrant culture that constantly delights me, but I do not love suburban, exurban, and rural white people.

Stubborn, willful ignorance is not something to love.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:57 AM

103. Good luck finding a place that doesn't have racism and sexism and other ills.

I have the stomach to stay and fight for change, sometimes I will win, sometimes I will lose, but I stay in the fight and I fight strategically.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #103)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:04 PM

108. Seriously.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:58 AM

104. I love the country, hate ALL republicans. The only way they stay in power is to cheat!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:59 AM

105. I'm really surprised. I thought Biden would win easily

Even if he squeaks out a win the celebration is muted. What a statement America made about the country 50% voting for Trump. Disgusting

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:04 PM

109. I love the U.S.A.

I wouldn't be so worried if I didn't.

I realized years ago that in my belief of a government for the people, I was walking on my own and dragging the gullible along with me. But that is okay. I am selfish, because I want what I grew up having, or the expectation of having. I never dreamed that so many people didn't understand the concept of helping each other and on that of that, helping others. My God, everything from classes in school to televsion, books, life examples, led me to the belief that not only did I live in the best country in the world, but with a government and society that was unique in history, and a beacon for the world. Now that I am older, I don't see the U.S. like a carnival midway at night, more like a carnival in the morning before it opens, where you can see the aging equipment, haggard faces, and flies on the ponies. But still love the effort, and won't stop.

I grew up in the 1960's and it is amazing to me that my generation was villifed for hating America, and now, we are villified for loving it.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:04 PM

110. The countries you mentioned will take immigrants from the USA

Just right now due to covid they are not letting anyone in.
Ride out covid and use your time to plan and research.

Some countries are easier than others to move to but if you have some sort of skill or qualifications then you may qualify.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:07 PM

111. As a psycologist

As a psychology major who once wrote a dissertation on cults, I can explain it only by the fact that Trumpism is a deeply addicting and damaging cult. Trump is the cult leader/guru/messiah who is infallible in the eyes of his followers. I would go as far as to say that if Trump had raped and killed the sister of one of his cblind followers that person would find a way to justify it and would still vote for him. Trump is the Jim Jones of our time, and his followers are the Peoples Temple cult members who would willingly drink the poisoned punch.

I did not support Biden in the primaries, but I can't blame him for not achieving a landslide victory. Because he was facing nearly half of the population who are blind, fact free, alternate reality, conspiracy afflicted cultists, and the crazy archaic Electoral College scam, it would be just about impossible for any Democrat to peel off enough Trump cultists in the fly over states to ensure a landslide victory.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:08 PM

115. Yup. Feels unbearable

Ö.to live in a country where such racist, cruel, ignorant people live in large numbers.

Every one I know is longing to get out.

Poor Biden. I think the country has been left in an ungovernable condition.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:13 PM

118. Most other parts of the world are no different

We are insane and regressive as a species and that is true the world over...

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:13 PM

119. Marie is 72 and her husband is 77. They like living here in Maysville, a small town half white and

half poc. It's a quiet town about 15 miles North of Jacksonville NC which is heavily populated by Marines, veterans, and their spouses and whose families mostly seem to be biracial. Our town is the kind of town where if you are in a hurry don't go into a store where the owner is alone because you will end up talking about your families and weather for at least half an hour. An hour if the owner has a new grand-child. You don't see pickup trucks driving around with trump or confederate flags and very few political signs even though it is highly Republican. People would rather hug you instead of shaking hands, but unfortunately, you can't do that now. You won't go into a store and see someone who is not wearing a mask. We really love this place. I just reread my post and in my mind, it sounded like something the Manager in Our Town would say so I rewrote the first couple of lines.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:17 PM

120. I love the country--I just don't love a lot of the people in it.

Hereís what yesterdayís Republican vote said to me.

We know Donald Trump and most members of his administration are destroying the federal government and we donít care. The only people who benefit from the federal government are the minorities and illegals on welfare.

We know that Trump lies about everything and is taking taxpayer money for his golf courses, and we think thatís fine.

We know that hundreds of thousands more of our citizens will die from Covid-19 because Trump will do nothing to prevent it, and we are fine with that.

We know that the jobs of millions of hotel, airline, restaurant, and travel industry workers have been lost, many of which will be permanent as small businesses go out of business, and we donít care because we have our jobs and for some of us our 401ks are still healthy.

We know that Trump and Republicans will eventually get rid of the ACA and deprive over 20 million of our fellow citizens of health insurance, but we donít care because if you canít get insurance through your employer, then you just need to change jobs. In any event, itís your problem, not ours.

We know that Trump and Republicans are for racist policies that hurt minorities and for militarized police who shoot black people to kill without provocation, but weíre white so we donít care. If you donít like the situation, go back to Africa.

We know that Trump hates LGBTQ just as much as we do, so we are okay with any laws to take away their rights and force them back in the closet where we donít ever have to see them again.

We are especially okay with putting unqualified extremist judges on the federal courts and the Supreme Court because we believe that women should have no rights other than those granted to them by their fathers or husbands and if they have sex they should be forced to bear the consequences, including giving birth in an unwanted pregnancy or even dying with an ectopic or other dangerous pregnancy. We want the laws of the US government to be written to enforce our religious beliefs, especially patriarchal rule and the vindictive punishment of those who offend us.

We believe in science only when it benefits us, as when we get cancer and need the best treatment to save our lives (because weíre insured), but we refuse to believe in the science of climate warming because Democrats do believe in it. Thatís enough for us. We donít care if fires burn all of of California. Thatís their problem.

We voted for Trump and Republicans because we know they will do everything possible to protect our white privilege and to prevent more Muslims, or black or brown black or Asian immigrants from coming to this country. It belongs to white people only.


These are the attitudes of almost half this country that I cannot and will never accept. How I personally get beyond despising a significant portion of my fellow citizens is something I havenít figured out yet. I just find it all terribly depressing at the moment.

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Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #120)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 02:03 PM

169. Very well said

and true.

As George Carlin said "It's a big club and you ain't in it".

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:23 PM

123. I don't love the racist hateful idiots who voted to make America worse for the rest of us

They have proven they don't mind drowning in rising sea levels or getting sick with COVID as long as the people they hate get it worse.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:25 PM

124. Right there with you, Goodheart.

Never mind the fact that he's indeed "an obvious hideous monstrous moronic evil con man". A psychopath who has blatantly lied over 20,000 times to Americans. A man with virtually no significant accomplishments to benefit our country, but one also with one horrendous mishandling of the pandemic. Somehow, some 60+ million zombies have decided that those dubious qualities are worth a second term.

So yes, I don't love the USA either - haven't for some time now. American's can chant their guttural U-S-A, U-S-A nonsense at world sporting events, all the while as their "beloved country" falls in virtually every measurable category in the world against other developed countries. And that's just it - we're not a developed country anymore; we're a collection of ignorant, uneducated idiots who resent the half of us whom are not. They hate everything that we hold dear, including respect for the ideals that so many died for up until WW2.

Louisianians? Hell, I live in Florida, in a until recently, blue county. The zombies completely ran the table here - down the ballot. Biden lost by less than 2,000 votes here. All of our work for the last few years is lost. We elected a moron for State House - a seat held for decades by Dems and an incumbent who has been a well-known activist for the environment and public education. The moron's pitch? "I'll show up!". Of course she will, she need the steady work after failing at every other job she has held.

We re-elected to Congress a wounded war vet who the pukes planted here from Michigan over a Navy JAG. That a tape was discovered with the guy joking with a child sex predator friend about young girls in Thailand was not enough to expose this former "explosives expert" who expertly stepped on a IED blowing off his legs. Republican sex scandals are de rigueur for their candidates now.

Fuck this place and fuck all the brain-dead zombies that couldn't bring themselves to saving what's left of our democracy, in favor of their own misguided racist, and ignorant beliefs. Unfortunately for us, regardless of the outcome, we can't leave - no one will have us.





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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:25 PM

125. i love it, but

it's been a long time since i believed i was lucky to be an American.

i love my oldest brother and my lifelong friend, but i can't talk to them anymore, and that's America.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:29 PM

126. I am angry that 60 million support a racist liar who is ok with their fellow Americans are dying

From Covid 19 which he handled badly and it didnít have to be the disaster it is that we will suffer from for many years to come. I have been watching national tv news and they idiot on who still support him and think heís done a great job and is a successful businessman. Not knowing heís bankrupted his multiple companies, stiffed at least 4000 contractors and is a serial rapist.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:30 PM

128. I lived in Europe for a couple years.

I'll never forget boarding the plane in early 1976 to return to the U.S. and being overcome by an overwhelming sense of dread.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:45 PM

133. When I chose my screen name back when I first registered, it was wishful thinking.

Now we live in France.

In three more years, we'll be able to apply for French citizenship. Initially I wasn't going to, but now? Definitely. We need to have a fallback.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:48 PM

135. I don't love what this country stands for any longer.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:51 PM

136. I'm glad to live in a Blue state and a Blue city

I donít have to interact with racist Deplorables

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Response to Rice4VP (Reply #136)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 02:13 PM

170. I think

for sanity wise people will consider moving to a blue state, if they want a new perspective.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:54 PM

138. just under half this country's voting populace

is wilfully every negative you have pointed to in your post and they are not loved nor respected as human beings to me. They are rabid animals following THEIR rabid leader of the pack.

As one of the disabled american "loser" "sucker" vets as trump the coward referred to us as, I truly feel very stupid for allowing myself to ever feel this country would offer any POC a fair chance at all to that which is a given for the entitled of this country. While President Obama did show that wilfully ignorant people can make mistakes, being as racist as they are not one of them would believe President Obama had a chance, therefore they were surprised to wake up to a POTUS who happened to be a POC in 2008. Yet in 2016, with the 180% turn this country took, I was shown that the mistake by the racist 40% bloc of amerikkkan voter in 2008 would NEVER be made again.

Having grown up in a career military family I volunteered for the Army. 1049'd to Vietnam believing Kissingers 'domino theory' bullshit. Another repthuglican lie. Was poisoned with Dow Chemical's Agent Orange. Have been fighting cancer, attributed to AO, for the last 3 years.

I am hating the pollsters this moring. HITF could they have been so wrong about the #'s? How could they have misled so easly? I expected the traitors in red to show up election day and no one in the Democratic Party leadership or strategists didn't?

I just don't get it. To hell with it. This country's racist-white supremacists, over 40% last count, will never change their stripes.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:54 PM

139. Hi Goodheart...

....... I know. That's what's so horribly, horribly heartbreaking.....that so many of our fellow citizens support an effining monster...

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:55 PM

140. I live in a Blue town, in a Red County in a Blue state

Small rural forested ranching county. I hate even knowing one of my neighbors is so ignorant (he is) and votes for Trump. Very bad masking policies in all of the hardware stores.

Iím working on my dual citizenship papers with Canada. I have one foot over the border now.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 12:58 PM

142. Honestly, I never "loved" the USA

I love parts of it, especially the values that us Dems and liberals value. But it's hard to love a country with so many awful awful people.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:01 PM

143. Not much different in neighboring Texas.

I have really come to detest this state and all of the people enabling the shitty behavior and policies. Our plans were/are to:
1. Leave the country if Trump steals the election (he cannot win honestly). We are almost 70 but just cannot watch this downward spiral anymore. We just cannot deal with this shroud of darkness. All other things aside, Trump is a self-confessed and indicted traitor, acquitted only due to a corrupt Senate. Anyone still supporting him is just as treasonous. So, almost 1/2 of our country is made up of traitors. How do you get past that? I cannot.
2. Leave the state for a blue state if the in-state election goes badly. Well, it has. The really solid, good people have lost and evil has prevailed here once again. Texas is a shit-hole state in a shit-hole country and is over 1/2 full of fucking traitors. How do you get past that? I cannot.

I do not mean to be down and depressed, but I am. Leaving Texas will not solve anything within the state, but it will at least afford us an opportunity to live in a state where people are cared for, encouraged, and offered a hand-up. We do not want to see any more fellow citizens with a boot shoved in their face just because they need help or are not the right gender or color.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:03 PM

145. Sick to my stomach

It doesn't help waiting for the results of the election.

But like most of us here, I look at that red bloc and I marvel at it. As I posted last night, the vile creature and his minions provide a "save haven" for the vile among us - facsists, racists, misogynists, homophobes, anti-Semites, Islamophobes, anti-choice, anti-immigrant, anti-alliances, anti-allies, uneducated, anti-intellectuals, anti-science, and so many more. For generations these deplorables stayed under their rocks, in their caves, in their basement, and in dark corners of the internet. For four years they have had permission to roam freely, in the process becoming members of a death cult.

If we win but don't gain a Senate majority, all bets are off for the next four years (I think). Though it would take only one or two to "defect," and of course we would have the VP breaking ties. So there's that.

BTW, about that red bloc - the problem is the Electoral College, which is really all that matters. But the fact is that Joe, like Hillary before him, have the majority of the popular vote, and while those voters predominate in blue states, the fact is that there are Dems all over the place. We are not red vs. blue (or blue vs. gray), and I think a popular vote map would show that, though it's largely irrelevant in choosing a president. Thus, the EC must go.

As for breaking up - what makes us think that we are exempt from political, social, moral and economic upheaval that has resulted in revised borders?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:09 PM

148. I love USA because of so many great people I know

This election would not change that. But I am privileged enough to live in California. I probably would feel very differently if I lived in one of the red states.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:21 PM

153. I may have reached my breaking point in Iowa

I've been here slightly longer than three years, but we're not going back to blue anytime soon. May have to return to Colorado, where I spent most of my adult life, especially if IA-2 goes red. I mean, if Iowa City and the Quad Cities can't be represented by a Democrat, this state's in deep shit.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:23 PM

154. I can move my high-tech job easily to Toronto

 

so might end up living there 6 months + 1 day of the year to get taxes out of the country.

But I hope to put it off for 4-8 years.

I am very jaded long-term after last evening.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:33 PM

157. Fox News and all the other RW lying, we all know what's up and always have, Reps exploit ignorance.

They stir up their base to even vote against themselves?

SOCIALISM, oh my we can't have that, OMG healthcare for all, OMG we can't allow that!!!

DUH!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:33 PM

158. I Will Always Love this Country

or the one I grew up with (I am 58). I don't like what I am seeing happening now and have worked to do what I can to fight it. I have gotten to the point I am just tired. Some might say I have given up.

I'm gay. I am married (to a man). I never thought I would be able to do that and took a lot of pride in my country for moving into modern times. When the Repugs put another illegal justice on the court and not a week later some of the other conservative justices implied they were open to overturning gay marriage we decided regardless of the President we were out. We did our research. Found a place we can retire and establish residency to, and allows gay marriage.

When I told a good friend who was straight what we were planning....she immediately called me a drama queen. Her exact quote was "You have lived your whole life not being allowed to married the guy you have been with for 30 years...why do you even care?" That's when it hit me that even my allies are buying some the conservative talking points.

All talking to "friends" has done lately for me is make me a former friend. I have agreed with my husband its time to probably retire early and find someplace that will let me establish residency. I'm off in late December to start the paperwork and start house hunting.

I plan to visit home often (Dallas....more liberal than what most on here think) but depending on how things go in the State I may be not be home as much as I planned.

I am on this site everyday and don't post often and thank most of you for keeping me sane. That won't change. I am still looking forward to a President Biden.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:39 PM

161. It's like waking up and learning your father's a serial killer

and you had no idea.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:45 PM

163. National foundations taken for granted until four years ago

Until four years ago I had no problem believing in the separation of powers and in the separation of church state. After Watergate, I thought that either political party would turn against elected officials whose criminal actions were exposed. Even with George Bush the Lesser's elections, the middle east wars, the great recession and then Obama's amazing presidency, I believed we had common foundations and simply differences in opinions on how to best advance our country.
Now I see the critical flaws both built into the original foundations of the countries and how greed for power has twisted those foundations for the advantage of a few. I always knew there was a portion of the population that advanced a very restrictive Christian view that was but I never thought this country would tilt toward an autocracy by the minority. Our country has a long tradition of political parties fooling a segment of the population to support them even when it was not in those voters' best interests. But I never envisioned a political party so completely abandoning their symbolism and platforms. Or that they would nakedly expose that their only interest is achieving and maintaining power.

What is being advanced today is a complete reinterpretation and twisting of the fundamental foundations of this country from a limited democracy to an autocracy supported by Christian extremists, Conservative nationalism, racism and the rich. Only supporters of the autocracy are important and the rest are to be marginalized, starved of resources, and denied any voice. Right no longer makes might and the rest of the world can go to hell as long as we continue to get what we want. This country will continue to decline as the rights of the privileged few are forced on the rest.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:46 PM

164. My home state embarrasses me, too.

I was born in Baton Rouge. I'm not there with you, though. There are simply too many good people doing hard work for me to curse them. But, I completely understand the frustration. We need more investment, not less. We need more resources so that those with "good hearts" can really make a difference.
Our party needs to make significant investments in the south if we want to do better there. Mike Espy had a real chance in Mississippi.
Doug Jones needed more money and early on in Alabama. We can do better. We will do better. Don't count us out permanently.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 01:49 PM

166. I hear you

It would be one thing if the GOP was merely a conservative party. One that stood for things that we might not agree with but at least fronted by people you could respect and who were at least competent and not completely toxic.

But today's GOP is NOT "conservative". Like many here have said, it's now little more than a personality cult that stands for nothing more than trolling and bullying the "libs". That's it. And from what I recall the party didn't even have a platform this time around. What does that tell you?

And it *is* very scary to see how many people are just fine with that.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 03:43 PM

177. Honestly, I think the solution is to

divide the geography into a central and southern red area, and two blue areas on the coast and the northeast.

Relocation subsidies and remodelings would keep everyone busy for 20 years. We could build two walls to separate them all.

Let's see how reds, deprived of intellectual capital and light on education, survive.

I like our chances, and I think it would promote peace instead of intolerance.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 03:45 PM

179. I haven't loved this country since I was 12.

Iím 45 now. If my life and family circumstances had been different, I would have jetted long ago.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 03:49 PM

182. I hate this country.

I can't handle living in a place with so many fascists and idiots. The fact that this race is so close after the last 4 years of catastrophe just destroys any faith I have in America or the people.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:08 PM

183. I still love my Country, I just hate the people turning it into a Third Reich.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:24 PM

185. No

I served and worked for a living in our country and still do, I am not about to let the a**holes have it.
Am I disgusted that we have so many selfish racist a holes yes, but I am not giving up.

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Response to Woodwizard (Reply #185)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:33 PM

186. Oh, I'm not giving up, either. Doesn't mean I love it, though.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #186)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 05:57 PM

205. Right

but I love where I live in the Catskill mountains even if the majority 68 percent here are republicans. And my circle of progressive friends are great.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:38 PM

188. I feel it too, and it brings tears to my eyes.

What the hell happened?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:43 PM

189. No. I'm not going to let disappointing election results dictate what I love.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:46 PM

192. the triumph of capitalism

 

capitalism. the word is not even mentioned, let alone subject to discussion. your lord and master, without recourse or appeal. congratulations on your total subjection to eternal misery.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:47 PM

193. Oh hell no... I love this country..it has warts and I want the warts treated

but I love my country... and if you think for a second that Canada and NZ does not have some crazy issues, you have not been reading the international media

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:48 PM

194. NO, I love my country. nt

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:48 PM

195. It so disheartens me

that there wasn't an overall repudiation of Trump, even though it looks like Biden will eek out a win. We have a lot of very bad people in this country.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #195)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 06:09 PM

206. But even if

Biden wins we are still stuck with a repub senate and the loathsome do nothing Moscow Mitch. So depressing.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:50 PM

197. Thank you for posting this! YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Cheers anyway!!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:55 PM

198. I'm tired of all of those quitters who feel bad and want to run away.

You wouldn't be much help in a fight. Like a poster said above--go where?
Canada won't take just anyone. Most other countries don't want Americans.
Most of the countries that are relatively inexpensive have bigger political problems
than the US. If you're a scared snowflake --GO!
I'll never leave my country, except to travel, and that may never happen.
Do you quitters know how many Americans have given their lives for this country?
In foreign wars and in civil rights conflicts and so much more?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 04:56 PM

199. I can totally relate to a lot of those feelings.

I have friends in NOLA, other parts of LA, and other parts of the country. You are far from alone in this.

However, I'm sure it's a lover's quarrel and not a divorce. There is still a great deal to be said for the place!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 05:06 PM

200. last night my partner was saying she's done trying to save America from itself

She was in a mood, and in that mood she was saying no more activism, no more trying to make things better -- if America wants Trumpism it just deserves the suffering it's going to get.

She feels better this morning, but those words aren't forgotten by either of us. We could make excuses for blue collar suckers before, but now we really can't. Trump was voted for by millions and millions of purblind assholes who saw everything that he did in the last four years and learned absolutely nothing from it. You can't justify or rationalize that as hope or ignorance, this was a choice made with open eyes, even if the brain behind the eyes is choosing not to see.

I believe adults bear a level of moral responsibility for their own willingness to be duped by cons and conspiracy theories. Being tricked and lied to does not let you off the hook -- especially not after you've seen the results and haven't changed your mind.

My respect for my fellow citizens is probably the lowest it's ever been... and it seems unbelievable that just twelve years ago a solid majority of them behaved in the exact opposite way and reaffirmed every platitude about what America could be.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 05:15 PM

201. Facebook nation- The swill runs deep. Algorithm zombies.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 05:42 PM

202. That's not this country. Those are individuals who are assholes.

People who know me know I don't resort to that language.

If you want to change things, YOU have to bring about the change.

This won't happen if you leave.

Please do not abandon us. "We can't fight along against the montster."

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 05:54 PM

203. I feel the same way in regards to

South Carolina. I'm just devastated by Losing Jamie Harrison and Joe Cunningham. I'm a transplant from upstate NY and my friends, when I told them I was moving to the tri-county area of SC, they warned me about the move. I should have listened. I've always voted a dem straight ticket. I don't know if I'll ever vote again. But even across the US I just don't know how anyone can vote republican with all the negative news about them.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 06:20 PM

207. If I had the financial means to leave I would do it in a heartbeat.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 06:31 PM

209. Love?

The word "love" is a misnomer as it pertains to one's country.
To say you love the USA is to love slavery, crooked politics, Big Oil, Big Pharma
Big Money etc.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 06:35 PM

210. Nope.

Sometimes I don't like this country but I will always love it.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 06:39 PM

211. I still do

It has good times and bad times.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 06:49 PM

213. I love MOST of this country

It will be a long fight to get it back but we will. We just have to.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 07:11 PM

214. Why would I, or anyone else, love this particular country over all others (fucking rhetorical Q).

Just saying, or thinking that, implies that we do not love other countries. Why exactly?

Oh yeah, now I remember, we have a monopoly on greatness. We are fucking number 1. Right?

I never loved "this country" - I am concerned with life on this planet, all of it - except nazi, facist, authoritarian, power grubbing, life ending, species ending assholes.

This country does not seem to favor that particular position.

I am now leaning towards helping these

?w=590&h=800&45B1350F-D680-4253-B4FCEC542384D084

over these.



The former deserves help, the latter deserves - well, use your imagination, I certainly do.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 07:15 PM

215. No way do I surrender my country to a bunch of fascist, racists asshats...

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 07:22 PM

216. I've never blindly loved this country

I love the physical entity that is this country. I've loved the privilege that being a citizen of this country used to mean outside of this country. I love the freedoms we were supposed to have but never really, truly have had - but I've loved that we mostly pushed the country closer to those freedoms. I've always loved the diversity of the population and hated it when I was living in places where all I saw were other white people. However, I've lived outside of this country in or near places were we've been our worst selves to every have loved our foreign policy or to have loved our rabid imperialism! I've also never loved the xenophobia and arrogant ethnocentrism even though I think I understand where it comes from. I've truly hated how our country was founded including hated that my ancestors played a major role in genocide.

On edit - but, then, no country is perfect. I know some Canadians and some of their laws are incredibly draconian and just as vicious in terms of their effect on the person being punished as ours!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 07:24 PM

217. Right there with ya!

I never ever thought I'd see 70m of my fellow americans vote this way, it saddens me beyond words

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Response to chitown progressive (Reply #217)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:07 PM

222. I totally agree!

I've been in such a dark place since last night, actually for 4 yrs but I had hope that American would show an resounding rejection of Trumpism, but they didn't. It saddens me beyond belief. I remember speaking to a man and his wife in 2016 Slovenia and his commented that he was always amazed at how Americans were united in their love for their country. He said that Slovenians never felt that way about their country. It was during the primary season. I told him we weren't united at all anymore and that there was a growing divide in the country. Little did I know that it would turn into a chasm. I really understand how they feel. I don't have that pride or belief that we are something special. In fact I am embarrassed. Goodheart, I am also originally from Louisiana, my family is still there, and I totally understand what you are saying. Not surprising that 8 out of the 10 lowest education level states are Red, La. being the 3rd least educated. This election should have been a blowout for all three branches of government if people were paying attention and weren't so damn stupid and bigoted.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 07:29 PM

218. The US has become two countries , the coasts and Jesus Land

or should I say the cities as most urban areas are quite progressive and the the woods

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 07:35 PM

220. i love what the country should be. i do not love those who refuse to allow it.

every country has decent people and deplorable people.
even the best places have a pretty fair percentage of vileness.

we have seen more than our fair share and I do not like the face they have shown.




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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 07:40 PM

221. The past four

Years or so have changed my views a lot. I wanted to stay here but I can foresee a move back to Canada at some point now. Or at least partially living there. It depends on my outdoor cats being able to be moved mostly for me. This is what I am used to and a large part of me wants to stay. But this was way too close to nazism and it was fascism. That is not going to go away and I have no faith now it couldn't happen again. I have always known there are plenty of fascist fodder here but this was beyond the pale and frightening. I have aged so much from the terrible stress.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:50 PM

224. I love California

I will always love MY STATE!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 08:57 PM

225. I have to respond

Can't add anything new, but yes, I have different feelings knowing those people, in such masses, walk among us. Like finding out there is a zombie apocalypse and I somehow am only just finding out about it. Americans aren't Americans. Quite the break between the decent, intelligent, moral people and the trump supporters. Our poor education system rearing its ugly head.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:19 PM

228. Continue to love the country.

Continue to love the country. Hate those who would bring it low. I have been
everywhere like Johnny Cash, there is no better country anywhere. Our rights
and freedoms are being used against us by evil bastards. We all need to fight
harder. 2022 we must take back the senate!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:24 PM

229. da fuck is this shit?

so leave.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 09:39 PM

231. You know, I feel the spirit of your complaint. I just can't agree about the "half" part.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 10:30 PM

233. If you look closely enough at the population of any country in the world

you will find that about half of it is gullible and brainwashed. Exhibit A - Brexit.

You will also find that the gullible and stupid have leaders who are at best venal and at worst downright evil. EXhibit B - Putin

Even in nations which have good, or basically good, leadership, you will find that leaders are not able to accomplish all that they want to - and that the gullible and stupid, and their leaders, the rich and greedy, are a big part of that. Exhibit C - Justin Trudeau.

But yes, it doesn't have to be as bad as it is here and now. If this doesn't sound too stupid - I think one major thing we as a nation need to do is make education - and specifically liberal education - respectable again.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Nov 4, 2020, 11:36 PM

235. I hear ya!

I'm 62 and financially comfortable. Because I am white and straight the Trump Presidency has not effected me much. But I have gay friends, a trans friend, three Muslim friends, three Jewish friends and several friends who are Black. I worry about their future. I see the racial and religious hatred in this hatred and I am scared for them. I despise Trump for encouraging this hatred of the "other".
I used to love this country, but no more. These past 4 yrs have let me see the truly ugly side of this country and I am disgusted by it. We have a huge number of people in this country who are anti-science, bigoted, sexist, mean-spirited, self-centered and dumb as rocks. I hate it! And don't get me started on the religious fanatics!
I'd love to leave this country of flag-waving yahoos and go someplace sane where people care about each other and don't fall for idiotic conspiracy theories. New Zealand in my first choice followed by Canada. I'd love to live in Portugal but I don't speak the language. But moving to another country would also be a pain in the ass. Leaving friends and family, moving my stuff, etc. Or I could just ride it out here and hope for things to get better. So I am pondering what I want to do.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 06:39 AM

236. I learned years ago that love of country ..

is fascist code talk from racist right wingers..

IMO, itís a meme that rich white people use
to keep us in line.

As for me, America is my country, like it or not.
I might as well do my part to try to make it better.

Thatís about it.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 06:42 AM

237. I've been in Thailand on a retirement visa the last 2 1/2 years.

I visited for a little over a month last year and was looking forward to doing so again. Covid put a stop to that.

Because of our atrocious handling of the pandemic even if I could go back anytime soon I don't think I'd care to.
First off, I'd have hell getting back in and secondly, this election has really depressed me.

No blue tsunami, Biden's got about three million more popular votes, about the same as Hillary.

I think Biden will be the winner but we still have the truly awful Mitch McConnell not allowing any meaningful legislation to be voted on.

Was hoping this election would show the world most of us were better than the last four years. I guess a bare majority of us may be.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 06:53 AM

238. during BushII,

We vacationed in France, close to the town (St. Briac sur mer) where John Kerry's cousin was the mayor of. This was familiar territory for me: in my childhÚod, we vacationed here every Summer. During this stay, we walked around in light blue t shirts, which read, in the UN seven official languages: "I am sorry my president is an idiot. I did not vote for him." You should have seen the supportive looks we got...

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 07:22 AM

241. I have read all these posts of people in despair over the situation.

I believe that there is major culprit that is destroying the unity of the nation. I don't mean to trivialize the numerous challenges. What has been taking place since Reagan's decision to remove the fairness doctrine is the major source of the division that has taken place. Hate radio is solely the creation of the radical Republicans who have run the most successful propaganda program in turning over 40% of citizens into rabid mindless haters since the Nazis who eventually brought their nation it total disaster.

It is not two sided as is often portrayed by the major news media. It is predominately one sided with virtually no counter attacks by the Democrats. Firstly it must be remembered that the airwaves are the property of the people and are licensed under the condition that they provide benefit to the public. If people want sanity to be restored then they should demand in the courts that this basic requirement must be fulfilled to retain the license. Barrage them with suits until they either reform or are bankrupt. I have spoken to two lawyers who say that it has possibilities. The major obstacle is funding. This could be overcome quickly if concerned citizens funded the challenge. We should also demand that Democrats in Congress work toward reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:39 AM

245. My mother was a recovered alcoholic thanks to AA

This is the most important thing she left me with.
ĒGod grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.

Each line has power.
For me the, "courage to change the things I can" has inspired me to be a part of my community, to volunteer where I can help, and to generally adopt the attitude that we all need to make our world a better place, one neighborhood at a time.

No matter where you find yourself there will always be things you can not change.

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