Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:29 AM

President Pence

My guess is that on Jan. 18 Trump resigns. The next day President Pence gives Trump a pardon. What says you?

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25 replies	Author	Time	Post
President Pence (Original post)	exoskeleton	Nov 2020	OP
i think so too. trump wont want to chance a self-pardon.	bullimiami	Nov 2020	#1
That would require a confession, which could be	zaj	Nov 2020	#2
Not so.	madaboutharry	Nov 2020	#10
He did... legally.	zaj	Nov 2020	#18
I thought you meant before hand not in conjunction with.	madaboutharry	Nov 2020	#20
A Trump pardon creates evidence for state prosecution	zaj	Nov 2020	#21
Doesn't he need to be charged to be pardoned?	soothsayer	Nov 2020	#3
Nixon had not been charged. It hasn't been tested though.	yellowcanine	Nov 2020	#11
And Pence goes on to a classic Gerald Ford 2024 belly-flop fail!	Zambero	Nov 2020	#4
Wouldn't it be something if 3 day president pence	MLAA	Nov 2020	#5
That would be hilarious...the only time Pencie shows a spine.	Totally Tunsie	Nov 2020	#19
And everyone would say he pulled a 'Trump' 😬	MLAA	Nov 2020	#24
LOL - Trust NO ONE!	Totally Tunsie	Nov 2020	#25
My guess?	SomedayKindaLove	Nov 2020	#6
I think Trump would prefer to pardon himself.	Laelth	Nov 2020	#7
Even with the R SCOTUS I don't think he would take that gamble.	IllinoisBirdWatcher	Nov 2020	#14
Trump has never believed that the rules apply to him.	Laelth	Nov 2020	#17
Pence would be crazy to do that.	yellowcanine	Nov 2020	#8
I'm not sure he can be pardoned for a crime by the SDNY unless it is a federal crime that has been	walkingman	Nov 2020	#9
I'm sure it's been considered in some form or another.	sarge43	Nov 2020	#12
I think he'll resign way before then.	Buckeyeblue	Nov 2020	#13
Been saying that for months	PuppyBismark	Nov 2020	#15
Unless Trump has a bail-out deal from Putin, where Putin pays him off and gives him asylum...	Silent3	Nov 2020	#16
He still needs to address his violations of NY law. Pence can't pardon that.	NNadir	Nov 2020	#22
Yes but at least he takes the Federal violations off the table. I think it's more than a possibility	OnDoutside	Nov 2020	#23

Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:30 AM

bullimiami (12,218 posts)

1. i think so too. trump wont want to chance a self-pardon.

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:33 AM

zaj (3,433 posts)

2. That would require a confession, which could be

... evidence in state criminal investigations.

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Response to zaj (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:39 AM

madaboutharry (38,609 posts)

10. Not so.

Nixon never admitted to anything.

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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:55 AM

zaj (3,433 posts)

18. He did... legally.

The Supreme Court, in Burdick v. United States (1915), ruled that accepting a pardon "requir(es) him to confess his guilt in order to avoid a conviction of it". And that a pardon was an "imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it".

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3928528117882105076

"This brings us to the differences between legislative immunity and a pardon. They are substantial. The latter carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it. The former has no such imputation or confession. It is tantamount to the silence of the witness. It is non-committal. It is the unobtrusive act of the law giving protection against a sinister use of his testimony, not like a pardon requiring him to confess his guilt in order to avoid a conviction of it."

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Response to zaj (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:57 AM

madaboutharry (38,609 posts)

20. I thought you meant before hand not in conjunction with.

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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:58 AM

zaj (3,433 posts)

21. A Trump pardon creates evidence for state prosecution

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:33 AM

soothsayer (38,601 posts)

3. Doesn't he need to be charged to be pardoned?

And can’t be charged (he sez) cuz president?

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Response to soothsayer (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:39 AM

yellowcanine (35,502 posts)

11. Nixon had not been charged. It hasn't been tested though.

If Ford had not pardoned Nixon he might have beaten Carter imo.

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:33 AM

Zambero (8,198 posts)

4. And Pence goes on to a classic Gerald Ford 2024 belly-flop fail!

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:34 AM

MLAA (14,160 posts)

5. Wouldn't it be something if 3 day president pence

didn’t pardon impotus and his spawn?

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Response to MLAA (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:57 AM

Totally Tunsie (10,885 posts)

19. That would be hilarious...the only time Pencie shows a spine.

If Chump were to resign, there'd be no reason to *fear* him and what he could or couldn't do at that point. Pencie could just adopt "If he's gone, he's gone" and just leave it at that. There would be a parade of people getting a good laugh from it!

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Response to Totally Tunsie (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 12:19 PM

MLAA (14,160 posts)

24. And everyone would say he pulled a 'Trump' 😬

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Response to MLAA (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 12:27 PM

Totally Tunsie (10,885 posts)

25. LOL - Trust NO ONE!

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:34 AM

SomedayKindaLove (353 posts)

6. My guess?

Trump pardons himself and then steps down an hour before before inauguration and Pence pardons him as well. The double pardon!

Gotta cover your bases.

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:35 AM

Laelth (32,014 posts)

7. I think Trump would prefer to pardon himself.

I can’t see him resigning.

-Laelth

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Response to Laelth (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:49 AM

IllinoisBirdWatcher (2,315 posts)

14. Even with the R SCOTUS I don't think he would take that gamble.

A self-pardon has never been done and there is some question of its constitutionality. I don't think he would want to take the chance of a SCOTUS rejection.

The pardon of Nixon worked and is a precedent.

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Response to IllinoisBirdWatcher (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:55 AM

Laelth (32,014 posts)

17. Trump has never believed that the rules apply to him.

Besides, the case would have to go through multiple levels of lower Courts before the SCOTUS could rule on the Constitutionality of Trump’s self-pardon. If it did get that far, I can easily see the SCOTUS ruling for Trump in the interest of national healing and peace. They don’t want to see Trumpers marching in the streets to vindicate their poor, mistreated, orange martyr.

-Laelth

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:37 AM

yellowcanine (35,502 posts)

8. Pence would be crazy to do that.

And I do not believe he would. He is way too cautious. Notice that he is saying nada about Trump's wild rants.

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:38 AM

walkingman (5,655 posts)

9. I'm not sure he can be pardoned for a crime by the SDNY unless it is a federal crime that has been

litigated? Once we have access to his tax returns I feel confident there will be prosecutable crime. The real question is does the political elite pursue them. I say send him to jail or we will never be rid of his sorry ass. He will just become another Rush Limpbaugh or Alex Jones.

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:40 AM

sarge43 (28,681 posts)

12. I'm sure it's been considered in some form or another.

That won't stop the NY AG nor will it stop all that personal debt from coming due. Over the years Trump has tap danced into a mine field of his own making; don't think he'll be able to tap dance out.

As been noted before, 3 Nov 2020 probably was the last good day of the rest of his life.

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:41 AM

Buckeyeblue (5,147 posts)

13. I think he'll resign way before then.

He won't have any interest in sticking around as a lame duck for 2+ months.

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:51 AM

PuppyBismark (576 posts)

15. Been saying that for months

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 11:54 AM

Silent3 (13,602 posts)

16. Unless Trump has a bail-out deal from Putin, where Putin pays him off and gives him asylum...

...in exchange for sticking around and fucking over the US even more, I can easily see Trump bailing out much sooner. Whether Pence would give Trump a pardon on the way out the door, I don't have enough sense of Pence's levels of sycophancy vs. shear opportunism to guess how willing he'd be.

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Response to exoskeleton (Original post)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 12:00 PM

NNadir (31,082 posts)

22. He still needs to address his violations of NY law. Pence can't pardon that.

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Response to NNadir (Reply #22)

Sat Nov 7, 2020, 12:11 PM

OnDoutside (19,708 posts)

23. Yes but at least he takes the Federal violations off the table. I think it's more than a possibility

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