General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf you buy Apple products you are part of the problem
https://www.ft.com/content/5b2af247-46fa-45de-94e1-b669bb0c3164Apple has reprimanded one of its largest manufacturers after a Financial Times investigation found that thousands of student interns had worked overtime to assemble iPhones, in breach of Chinese law.
After being contacted by the FT, Apple said it had stopped giving new business to Pegatron, its second-largest iPhone assembler after Foxconn. However, workers there said the factory was still manufacturing new products ahead of the holidays.
Apple did not explain how it defined new business, nor what the material impact of the probation, if any, would be on Pegatron. The iPhone maker sought to place blame for the abuses squarely on its manufacturing partner, saying: The individuals at Pegatron responsible for the violations went to extraordinary lengths to evade our oversight mechanisms. Pegatron has now fired the executive with direct oversight of the programme.
Once you step on to the factory floor, you cant stop working until lunchtime. Sometimes you get orders you cant complete 600 to 1,000 [iPhones] per hour and then they dont let you eat lunch, said the former worker. Pegatron did not immediately respond to the FT regarding the workers claims.
When are people going to open their eye and understand Apple is not a good company? They never sever relations with companies that abuse their workers they just warn them because their bottom line is more important than any abuses, look at Foxconn. I don't understand people who are still buying Apple products but I do know they are a huge part of the problem and should be ashamed of themselves.
LisaM
(27,794 posts)I boycott lots of companies, Apple, Nike,.and most of all Amazon. But my boycotts are hilariously ineffective.
I thought there was some cognitive dissonance about Colin Kaepernick taking all that money from Nike, when has been alleged for years to use sweat shop labor.
ret5hd
(20,482 posts)I realize sometimes it is a vote for the lesser evil, etc. But still, every dollar is a vote. So I wholeheartedly endorse your boycotts.
As far as Colin...well, not him exactly, but sometimes...well, it's kinda like bin laden financing his "endeavors" with western oil money...take the money from your enemies and use it against them.
ret5hd
(20,482 posts)you are part of the problem.
Of course, exceptions...
But I can't understand how items proved to have been made by abused workers can become cool, hip and trendy, don't people understand that buying Apple is no different than buying sweatshop goods at Walmart?
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,308 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)sir pball
(4,737 posts)Since they're already a gigantic manufacturer of components in their own right, for just about everyone under the sun (including Apple), they cut out the middleman and run a lot of their own assembly facilities as well.
IIRC something like 80% of their production is out of their own factories in India and Vietnam, the balance is contract manufacturers that are mostly hired to dodge import taxes by allowing the phones to be "domestic products" in their markets.
Now, this is saying nothing about the working conditions; they aren't any better than the Chinese contract manufacturers - East Asian sweatshop labor is East Asian sweatshop labor regardless, but Samsung does directly own most of their final assembly infrastructure.
Doodley
(9,041 posts)BKDem
(1,733 posts)Maybe I'm just getting old and stupid, but the interfaces aren't quite as elegant and intuitive as they once were and the updates aren't as flawless, but their prices seem to be holding steady orrising nicely.
BTW, $20 for an iPhone cables I have to buy a couple of times a year seems like a lot.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,852 posts)Look at the Facebook users! I don't do that, and they're the REAL problem!
It was the first time that I bought an iPhone. Prior to that, all of my "smartphones" were flip-phones or had about 4MB of memory. My coworker peeps from West Dayton poked fun at me for not having something decent, so it was peer pressure from them! Lol. (Not really, but they indeed laughed about it.)
MineralMan
(146,256 posts)some of the products I do own aren't assembled in places just like that. Who assembled my Samsung A10e? I have no idea. Where were all the components of my 2020 KIA Soul manufactured? I don't know. How about the jeans, shirt, and shoes I'm wearing today?
How about you? Are all the products you buy made in places you know don't violate laws? Are you sure?
Initech
(100,040 posts)My 2020 Legacy lists 71% of the parts manufactured in the USA - who knows where the rest of the components come from? And if I buy Samsung how do I know that phone isn't made in any better conditions? What about the motherboard in my computer? It lists Foxconn products.
The thing is we don't know where our stuff comes from or how it is made but it's good that there are people out there exposing the horrible labor conditions that people who make our crap are exposed to.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,852 posts)It's a losing battle to expect consumers to know what's happening. It's a myth of economics courses that basically treat consumers as all-knowing.
MineralMan
(146,256 posts)country. We have no authority, nor personnel in other countries. We don't do a very good job even of regulating such things in the United States, frankly.
Virtually no manufactured goods, like cars, electronics and most other things are assembled from components make all over the world. If you have a Ford, it has parts made in Mexico, China, Singapore, and many other places in it. We simply don't make everything we use any longer. If you buy a snowblower for your winter chores, these days, its engine is manufactured in China, almost certainly, since China now makes most small gasoline engines, regardless of what label is on them. We just don't do that much anymore.
So, we can't check the factories in all of those countries for labor issues or much of anything else. We don't even know where those components are made, most of the time. All of that stuff is made offshore now. We assemble some things here, but we make very few of the parts on those things.
We live in a global economy and we will not return to a domestic economy for manufactured goods ever again. We simply won't.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,852 posts)... has better resources and manpower to keep tabs on both domestic and overseas issues. This country has used the carrot and stick many times regarding wrongdoing in other countries.
It's indeed not easy. Corporations even in this country hide problems all the time. There was a massive explosion at a company where I used to work, the result of a manager shutting off an LEL (lower explosive limit) monitor because he felt the alarms and shut-downs were slowing down production too much. It was truly a miracle that nobody was killed or even injured by fire or the heavy access doors blowing off the oven. (An oven about as big as a football field.) So the managers rushed outside to meet the local fire department, telling them it was a minor incident under control... and that's what the fire department reported as well. Then everyone was warned to shut their mouths or face consequences, and that's what happened too. (If anyone was actually hurt, I doubt the workers would've complied.)
Initech
(100,040 posts)I kind of get what Trump was trying to achieve with his "America First" policy but it was an extremely terrible policy and came off as very Nazi esque. But figuring out a viable policy that benefits both domestic and foreign workers could take years if not decades to properly sort out, and might take an international treaty or two. No way would Trump cooperate with such a thing.
ripcord
(5,271 posts)But the people who buy Apple products know for a fact that their products are assembled by abused workers and it doesn't bother them as long as they get their cool phone.
MineralMan
(146,256 posts)Most do not, and are not interested in knowing. My point is that almost 100% of cell phones are made in Asia. There is zero reason to assume that some or all of that phone is made in a factory that treats its workers poorly. I assume my Samsung phone contains components made in multiple places, scattered all over the world. It also contains metals, the ores of which are mined in countries that exploit their workers horribly. The same goes for my car, my power tools, and pretty much everything else I use.
You know something about one company's products. What about the other products you own. What do you know about them?
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Which laptop, desktop, or tablet? Your television? Touchscreen in your car (unless you drive an old beater like mine, of course)?
sir pball
(4,737 posts)Sammy and LG are the two major outliers who assemble their own phones, but that doesn't mean diddly for the actual workers. East Asian sweatshops are East Asian sweatshops, be it Foxconn, Samsung or Nike.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/03/14/your-cool-new-samsung-smartphone-brought-you-noise-pain-miscarriages-pham-digangi-column/397173002/
MineralMan
(146,256 posts)And, yet, I have to have a cell phone, don't I? There's the rub. Nobody makes cell phones that are not chockfull of components made in East Asian sweatshops. Nobody.
So, if you have a cell phone...
sir pball
(4,737 posts)And while we don't HAVE to have a TV, I know precisely one person who actually doesn't...and we all have at least some inexpensive clothes from Bangladesh or Indonesia...the list is truly inescapable.
ripcord
(5,271 posts)Sony cell phones are made in Japan and they also make their own chips, Intel processors are made in the U.S. and Israel. While there are no assurances, even in the U.S., I tend to look at western countries along eastern countries like Japan and Taiwan.
MineralMan
(146,256 posts)Sony isn't interested in the US Market any longer:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/sony-mobile-global-business-news/
ripcord
(5,271 posts)brooklynite
(94,358 posts)MineralMan
(146,256 posts)This chip was made in Singapore. That chip over there was made in Thailand. The capacitors were made in a factory in Indonesia.
Nothing is made in one place any more. Nothing.
honest.abe
(8,614 posts)Thank goodness that wasnt it as we have alot that in the house!
Codeine
(25,586 posts)People - rightly - link Apple with Foxconn and their abusive practices, but fail to point out that there is basically no mobile phone in existence that doesnt have Foxconn-produced components.
The person who posted this used a computer with components that were almost certainly made in a Foxconn facility or in another Chinese facility with identical or even worse labor practices. This is not an Apple problem, or even a cellphone or gadget problem, its a global capitalism problem.
If you buy anything with a screen or a chip you are part of the problem. We are all part of the problem.
aidbo
(2,328 posts)Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)and are a very successful exporter of American technology. I don't expect them to regulate Chinese labor, that is something to take up with the Chinese government.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)I ditched them years ago for Apple because I was sick and tired of friggen viruses and other crap that was so easy to pick up online. It was fun to be able to build a cheap, sweet, powerful PC, but slaggy Windows started to suck, IMO. I also like my iTunes and easy transportability between devices.
As far as the plight of the workers, the world is nowhere perfect and I have no control whatsoever over their work conditions. I hope things go their way.
maxsolomon
(33,249 posts)of underpaid, exploitative immigrant labor.
brooklynite
(94,358 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)not_the_one
(2,227 posts)Why do you think Walmart is, possibly, the biggest US retailer and employer? We want cheap, and most of us can't afford expensive shit. (The fact most of us can't afford it is another issue.)
Why do you think we all want the cool things, but don't care how they were made? A certain segment of us CAN afford it, and We are SHALLOW. I must confess that we have three apple computers, two apple tablets, two android cell phones (which we hardly ever use), a Sony 4k 75" tv, a Onkyo recever and cd player, a really old Technics complete rack stereo system, and a really old HP laptop. So I am certainly one to talk...
President Biden needs to direct all the companies that sent everything off-shore, to BRING IT BACK. So what if it costs a little more, Americans will benefit from the jobs.
I am sure that if Americans are benefiting from the higher prices, we will willingly fork over our not-so-hard earned money. (Should I post the sarcasm smilie here?)
Let's be realistic, very few of us have had to actually do HARD physical labor to pay our way in life. We could never handle the practices of sweatshops. We would never submit to manually harvesting our fruits and vegetables. We MAY could physically do it, but no one would even apply for those jobs. We have no problem sweating at the gym, but IN A FIELD, BENT OVER ALL DAY harvesting produce? I don't think so.
Obvious hard labor exceptions are the trades... construction, plumbing, electrical, hvac, landscaping... But those usually allow for a living wage.
I'm 69. The last job I had that required physical labor was when I was 27. I entered the educational system and was there (at various universities/colleges) until I retired in 2017.
But as a child I worked in tobacco fields (family forced child labor which was typical of the time), the days running from sun-up to sun-down. After graduating from high school I had a few construction jobs, then I finally became a part of the pink ghetto, (male clericals) in the university system. I vowed to never go back to hard physical work again.
If we could bring back the manufacturing jobs, due to technological advances, hard labor would be minimal, and wages would allow a sustainable life.
Some jobs should never come back. Retraining the work force be required, and some may not want to retrain, but "it is what it is".
President Biden knows what we need to do. The question is if we the people, will make the necessary sacrifices to allow the transition back...
edit in bold, like a typical guy I overestimated size....
ffr
(22,665 posts)No more iPhone or anything from Apple. I'm done.
Microsoft will be next on my list.