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ripcord

(5,271 posts)
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:00 PM Nov 2020

If you buy Apple products you are part of the problem

https://www.ft.com/content/5b2af247-46fa-45de-94e1-b669bb0c3164

Apple has reprimanded one of its largest manufacturers after a Financial Times investigation found that thousands of student interns had worked overtime to assemble iPhones, in breach of Chinese law.

After being contacted by the FT, Apple said it had stopped giving “new business” to Pegatron, its second-largest iPhone assembler after Foxconn. However, workers there said the factory was still manufacturing new products ahead of the holidays.

Apple did not explain how it defined “new business”, nor what the material impact of the “probation”, if any, would be on Pegatron. The iPhone maker sought to place blame for the abuses squarely on its manufacturing partner, saying: “The individuals at Pegatron responsible for the violations went to extraordinary lengths to evade our oversight mechanisms. Pegatron has now fired the executive with direct oversight of the programme.”

“Once you step on to the factory floor, you can’t stop working until lunchtime. Sometimes you get orders you can’t complete — 600 to 1,000 [iPhones] per hour — and then they don’t let you eat lunch,” said the former worker. Pegatron did not immediately respond to the FT regarding the worker’s claims.


When are people going to open their eye and understand Apple is not a good company? They never sever relations with companies that abuse their workers they just warn them because their bottom line is more important than any abuses, look at Foxconn. I don't understand people who are still buying Apple products but I do know they are a huge part of the problem and should be ashamed of themselves.





39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
If you buy Apple products you are part of the problem (Original Post) ripcord Nov 2020 OP
I don't, not that all the choices are significantly better. LisaM Nov 2020 #1
I have long said "every dollar is a vote. vote for the world you want." ret5hd Nov 2020 #7
Let's face it...really...if you buy products at all... ret5hd Nov 2020 #2
This. obnoxiousdrunk Nov 2020 #3
Very true ripcord Nov 2020 #6
If you buy pretty much anything, you're part of a problem. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2020 #4
tech, shoes, food..... its all brought to market by slaves or wage slaves. NightWatcher Nov 2020 #16
Are there any smartphones not assembled by a contract electronics manufacture? Klaralven Nov 2020 #5
Samsung, mostly sir pball Nov 2020 #26
Is it better that these workers lose their jobs? Boycotting isn't a going to make things better IMO Doodley Nov 2020 #8
I hate to say it, but I think Apple's products are slipping as well. BKDem Nov 2020 #9
But... but... I got a great deal last year on the 11! Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2020 #10
I don't own any Apple products, but I'm not sure that MineralMan Nov 2020 #11
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. Initech Nov 2020 #12
We need better government regulations and oversight. Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2020 #14
We can only effectively regulate and oversee things in our own MineralMan Nov 2020 #18
It will never be totally effective, but government... Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2020 #22
How do you enforce that in other countries though? Initech Nov 2020 #19
I don't know for sure ripcord Nov 2020 #15
Some people who buy Apple products know those things. MineralMan Nov 2020 #20
Please tell us what phone you use. Codeine Nov 2020 #24
Your Samsung was assembled by Samsung, in Vietnam, under conditions just as bad as Foxconn sir pball Nov 2020 #27
Yes, I suppose so. MineralMan Nov 2020 #28
Oh, absolutely. sir pball Nov 2020 #32
Actually there are ripcord Nov 2020 #34
Where can you buy a Sony Cell Phone MineralMan Nov 2020 #36
Just go to Best Buy ripcord Nov 2020 #37
Tell us where the computer you're writing this on was manufactured. brooklynite Nov 2020 #13
Yes, along with every component in that computer. MineralMan Nov 2020 #21
I was thinking apple juice and apple sauce. honest.abe Nov 2020 #17
Those same factories make every cell phone on earth. Codeine Nov 2020 #23
Regulation and punitive fines from the government are much more effective than any boycott. aidbo Nov 2020 #25
Apple builds good stuff Steelrolled Nov 2020 #29
Like most old timers, I grew up with IBM/Windows/Dos. Baked Potato Nov 2020 #30
If you buy literal apples you are part of the problem maxsolomon Nov 2020 #31
It's been a while since we've had a good "I hate Apple and so should you" post brooklynite Nov 2020 #33
Ah, normalcy has returned. Wanna fight about breastfeeding pit bull puppies at Olive Garden? NightWatcher Nov 2020 #35
Face it. Americans are CHEAP and SHALLOW. Not to mention LAZY. not_the_one Nov 2020 #38
I'm sure they're all evil, but I couldn't take the backward improvement and moved on. ffr Nov 2020 #39

LisaM

(27,794 posts)
1. I don't, not that all the choices are significantly better.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:03 PM
Nov 2020

I boycott lots of companies, Apple, Nike,.and most of all Amazon. But my boycotts are hilariously ineffective.

I thought there was some cognitive dissonance about Colin Kaepernick taking all that money from Nike, when has been alleged for years to use sweat shop labor.

ret5hd

(20,482 posts)
7. I have long said "every dollar is a vote. vote for the world you want."
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:09 PM
Nov 2020

I realize sometimes it is a vote for the lesser evil, etc. But still, every dollar is a vote. So I wholeheartedly endorse your boycotts.

As far as Colin...well, not him exactly, but sometimes...well, it's kinda like bin laden financing his "endeavors" with western oil money...take the money from your enemies and use it against them.

ret5hd

(20,482 posts)
2. Let's face it...really...if you buy products at all...
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:04 PM
Nov 2020

you are part of the problem.

Of course, exceptions...

ripcord

(5,271 posts)
6. Very true
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:09 PM
Nov 2020

But I can't understand how items proved to have been made by abused workers can become cool, hip and trendy, don't people understand that buying Apple is no different than buying sweatshop goods at Walmart?

sir pball

(4,737 posts)
26. Samsung, mostly
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:19 PM
Nov 2020

Since they're already a gigantic manufacturer of components in their own right, for just about everyone under the sun (including Apple), they cut out the middleman and run a lot of their own assembly facilities as well.

IIRC something like 80% of their production is out of their own factories in India and Vietnam, the balance is contract manufacturers that are mostly hired to dodge import taxes by allowing the phones to be "domestic products" in their markets.

Now, this is saying nothing about the working conditions; they aren't any better than the Chinese contract manufacturers - East Asian sweatshop labor is East Asian sweatshop labor regardless, but Samsung does directly own most of their final assembly infrastructure.

BKDem

(1,733 posts)
9. I hate to say it, but I think Apple's products are slipping as well.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:11 PM
Nov 2020

Maybe I'm just getting old and stupid, but the interfaces aren't quite as elegant and intuitive as they once were and the updates aren't as flawless, but their prices seem to be holding steady orrising nicely.

BTW, $20 for an iPhone cables I have to buy a couple of times a year seems like a lot.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
10. But... but... I got a great deal last year on the 11!
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:13 PM
Nov 2020

Look at the Facebook users! I don't do that, and they're the REAL problem!


It was the first time that I bought an iPhone. Prior to that, all of my "smartphones" were flip-phones or had about 4MB of memory. My coworker peeps from West Dayton poked fun at me for not having something decent, so it was peer pressure from them! Lol. (Not really, but they indeed laughed about it.)

MineralMan

(146,256 posts)
11. I don't own any Apple products, but I'm not sure that
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:24 PM
Nov 2020

some of the products I do own aren't assembled in places just like that. Who assembled my Samsung A10e? I have no idea. Where were all the components of my 2020 KIA Soul manufactured? I don't know. How about the jeans, shirt, and shoes I'm wearing today?

How about you? Are all the products you buy made in places you know don't violate laws? Are you sure?

Initech

(100,040 posts)
12. Yeah I was wondering the same thing.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:32 PM
Nov 2020

My 2020 Legacy lists 71% of the parts manufactured in the USA - who knows where the rest of the components come from? And if I buy Samsung how do I know that phone isn't made in any better conditions? What about the motherboard in my computer? It lists Foxconn products.

The thing is we don't know where our stuff comes from or how it is made but it's good that there are people out there exposing the horrible labor conditions that people who make our crap are exposed to.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
14. We need better government regulations and oversight.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:35 PM
Nov 2020

It's a losing battle to expect consumers to know what's happening. It's a myth of economics courses that basically treat consumers as all-knowing.

MineralMan

(146,256 posts)
18. We can only effectively regulate and oversee things in our own
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:01 PM
Nov 2020

country. We have no authority, nor personnel in other countries. We don't do a very good job even of regulating such things in the United States, frankly.

Virtually no manufactured goods, like cars, electronics and most other things are assembled from components make all over the world. If you have a Ford, it has parts made in Mexico, China, Singapore, and many other places in it. We simply don't make everything we use any longer. If you buy a snowblower for your winter chores, these days, its engine is manufactured in China, almost certainly, since China now makes most small gasoline engines, regardless of what label is on them. We just don't do that much anymore.

So, we can't check the factories in all of those countries for labor issues or much of anything else. We don't even know where those components are made, most of the time. All of that stuff is made offshore now. We assemble some things here, but we make very few of the parts on those things.

We live in a global economy and we will not return to a domestic economy for manufactured goods ever again. We simply won't.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
22. It will never be totally effective, but government...
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:10 PM
Nov 2020

... has better resources and manpower to keep tabs on both domestic and overseas issues. This country has used the carrot and stick many times regarding wrongdoing in other countries.

It's indeed not easy. Corporations even in this country hide problems all the time. There was a massive explosion at a company where I used to work, the result of a manager shutting off an LEL (lower explosive limit) monitor because he felt the alarms and shut-downs were slowing down production too much. It was truly a miracle that nobody was killed or even injured by fire or the heavy access doors blowing off the oven. (An oven about as big as a football field.) So the managers rushed outside to meet the local fire department, telling them it was a minor incident under control... and that's what the fire department reported as well. Then everyone was warned to shut their mouths or face consequences, and that's what happened too. (If anyone was actually hurt, I doubt the workers would've complied.)

Initech

(100,040 posts)
19. How do you enforce that in other countries though?
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:02 PM
Nov 2020

I kind of get what Trump was trying to achieve with his "America First" policy but it was an extremely terrible policy and came off as very Nazi esque. But figuring out a viable policy that benefits both domestic and foreign workers could take years if not decades to properly sort out, and might take an international treaty or two. No way would Trump cooperate with such a thing.

ripcord

(5,271 posts)
15. I don't know for sure
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:38 PM
Nov 2020

But the people who buy Apple products know for a fact that their products are assembled by abused workers and it doesn't bother them as long as they get their cool phone.

MineralMan

(146,256 posts)
20. Some people who buy Apple products know those things.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:05 PM
Nov 2020

Most do not, and are not interested in knowing. My point is that almost 100% of cell phones are made in Asia. There is zero reason to assume that some or all of that phone is made in a factory that treats its workers poorly. I assume my Samsung phone contains components made in multiple places, scattered all over the world. It also contains metals, the ores of which are mined in countries that exploit their workers horribly. The same goes for my car, my power tools, and pretty much everything else I use.

You know something about one company's products. What about the other products you own. What do you know about them?

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
24. Please tell us what phone you use.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:14 PM
Nov 2020

Which laptop, desktop, or tablet? Your television? Touchscreen in your car (unless you drive an old beater like mine, of course)?

sir pball

(4,737 posts)
27. Your Samsung was assembled by Samsung, in Vietnam, under conditions just as bad as Foxconn
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:25 PM
Nov 2020

Sammy and LG are the two major outliers who assemble their own phones, but that doesn't mean diddly for the actual workers. East Asian sweatshops are East Asian sweatshops, be it Foxconn, Samsung or Nike.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/03/14/your-cool-new-samsung-smartphone-brought-you-noise-pain-miscarriages-pham-digangi-column/397173002/

MineralMan

(146,256 posts)
28. Yes, I suppose so.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:28 PM
Nov 2020

And, yet, I have to have a cell phone, don't I? There's the rub. Nobody makes cell phones that are not chockfull of components made in East Asian sweatshops. Nobody.

So, if you have a cell phone...

sir pball

(4,737 posts)
32. Oh, absolutely.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:45 PM
Nov 2020

And while we don't HAVE to have a TV, I know precisely one person who actually doesn't...and we all have at least some inexpensive clothes from Bangladesh or Indonesia...the list is truly inescapable.

ripcord

(5,271 posts)
34. Actually there are
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:47 PM
Nov 2020

Sony cell phones are made in Japan and they also make their own chips, Intel processors are made in the U.S. and Israel. While there are no assurances, even in the U.S., I tend to look at western countries along eastern countries like Japan and Taiwan.

MineralMan

(146,256 posts)
21. Yes, along with every component in that computer.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:06 PM
Nov 2020

This chip was made in Singapore. That chip over there was made in Thailand. The capacitors were made in a factory in Indonesia.

Nothing is made in one place any more. Nothing.

honest.abe

(8,614 posts)
17. I was thinking apple juice and apple sauce.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 12:42 PM
Nov 2020

Thank goodness that wasnt it as we have alot that in the house!

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
23. Those same factories make every cell phone on earth.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:12 PM
Nov 2020

People - rightly - link Apple with Foxconn and their abusive practices, but fail to point out that there is basically no mobile phone in existence that doesn’t have Foxconn-produced components.

The person who posted this used a computer with components that were almost certainly made in a Foxconn facility or in another Chinese facility with identical or even worse labor practices. This is not an Apple problem, or even a cellphone or gadget problem, it’s a global capitalism problem.

If you buy anything with a screen or a chip you are part of the problem. We are all part of the problem.

 

Steelrolled

(2,022 posts)
29. Apple builds good stuff
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:33 PM
Nov 2020

and are a very successful exporter of American technology. I don't expect them to regulate Chinese labor, that is something to take up with the Chinese government.

Baked Potato

(7,733 posts)
30. Like most old timers, I grew up with IBM/Windows/Dos.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 01:38 PM
Nov 2020

I ditched them years ago for Apple because I was sick and tired of friggen viruses and other crap that was so easy to pick up online. It was fun to be able to build a cheap, sweet, powerful PC, but slaggy Windows started to suck, IMO. I also like my iTunes and easy transportability between devices.

As far as the plight of the workers, the world is nowhere perfect and I have no control whatsoever over their work conditions. I hope things go their way.

 

not_the_one

(2,227 posts)
38. Face it. Americans are CHEAP and SHALLOW. Not to mention LAZY.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 02:49 PM
Nov 2020

Why do you think Walmart is, possibly, the biggest US retailer and employer? We want cheap, and most of us can't afford expensive shit. (The fact most of us can't afford it is another issue.)

Why do you think we all want the cool things, but don't care how they were made? A certain segment of us CAN afford it, and We are SHALLOW. I must confess that we have three apple computers, two apple tablets, two android cell phones (which we hardly ever use), a Sony 4k 75" tv, a Onkyo recever and cd player, a really old Technics complete rack stereo system, and a really old HP laptop. So I am certainly one to talk...

President Biden needs to direct all the companies that sent everything off-shore, to BRING IT BACK. So what if it costs a little more, Americans will benefit from the jobs.

I am sure that if Americans are benefiting from the higher prices, we will willingly fork over our not-so-hard earned money. (Should I post the sarcasm smilie here?)

Let's be realistic, very few of us have had to actually do HARD physical labor to pay our way in life. We could never handle the practices of sweatshops. We would never submit to manually harvesting our fruits and vegetables. We MAY could physically do it, but no one would even apply for those jobs. We have no problem sweating at the gym, but IN A FIELD, BENT OVER ALL DAY harvesting produce? I don't think so.

Obvious hard labor exceptions are the trades... construction, plumbing, electrical, hvac, landscaping... But those usually allow for a living wage.

I'm 69. The last job I had that required physical labor was when I was 27. I entered the educational system and was there (at various universities/colleges) until I retired in 2017.

But as a child I worked in tobacco fields (family forced child labor which was typical of the time), the days running from sun-up to sun-down. After graduating from high school I had a few construction jobs, then I finally became a part of the pink ghetto, (male clericals) in the university system. I vowed to never go back to hard physical work again.

If we could bring back the manufacturing jobs, due to technological advances, hard labor would be minimal, and wages would allow a sustainable life.

Some jobs should never come back. Retraining the work force be required, and some may not want to retrain, but "it is what it is".

President Biden knows what we need to do. The question is if we the people, will make the necessary sacrifices to allow the transition back...

edit in bold, like a typical guy I overestimated size....

ffr

(22,665 posts)
39. I'm sure they're all evil, but I couldn't take the backward improvement and moved on.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 02:55 PM
Nov 2020

No more iPhone or anything from Apple. I'm done.

Microsoft will be next on my list.

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