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Chichiri

(4,667 posts)
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:01 PM Nov 2020

Talk me down: what's to stop SCOTUS from preventing PA from certifying?

That is what Trump is asking for in the suit filed tonight. It's bullshit, but let's say SCOTUS accepts the bullshit and rules that PA cannot certify its votes for the electoral College. Say they do this in enough states to prevent anyone from reaching 270, and then allowing the House to vote Trump in by state delegation.

What is to stop this from happening, other than the good will of conservative judges?

EDIT: Thank you, everyone who answered; I'm reasonably satisfied that SCOTUS isn't going to fuck everything up.

46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Talk me down: what's to stop SCOTUS from preventing PA from certifying? (Original Post) Chichiri Nov 2020 OP
The letter v for one thing. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2020 #1
What do you mean? nt Chichiri Nov 2020 #3
"presenting?" rzemanfl Nov 2020 #4
Dah. Thank you, typo corrected. Chichiri Nov 2020 #8
An absolute lack of "cause," no evidence of anything and both PA law and constitution hlthe2b Nov 2020 #2
Right, like I said, the suit is bullshit. Chichiri Nov 2020 #7
They could send the five conservatives out to defocate in the woods on camera if they wanted to. hlthe2b Nov 2020 #11
Why don't you list the other 1001 things you worry onenote Nov 2020 #5
I'm really not trolling. I'm just worried. Chichiri Nov 2020 #10
Really? MizLibby Nov 2020 #33
I've been on DU since the summer of '04. Chichiri Nov 2020 #37
Ha! greenjar_01 Nov 2020 #21
If so, it's the end of AMERICA. They don't want that. spanone Nov 2020 #6
I think violence might well break out if that or something equally egregious happened & they know it hlthe2b Nov 2020 #15
If that were to happen, it would officially be coup liberal N proud Nov 2020 #9
There has to be a legal question treestar Nov 2020 #12
Civil War for starters. mobeau69 Nov 2020 #13
This has been beaten to death here!! Thekaspervote Nov 2020 #14
I'll watch this when I have a chance, thanks. Chichiri Nov 2020 #16
Rt! TY Kasper! Cha Nov 2020 #19
Actually, that justia article helped a lot. Chichiri Nov 2020 #20
The relief sought is intended to pave the way for GOP-controlled state legislatures Frasier Balzov Nov 2020 #17
The Republican head of the PA Senate has said he won't overrule the vote - link Alhena Nov 2020 #23
Asterisk: If the legitimate popular vote can be ascertained. Frasier Balzov Nov 2020 #27
SCOTUS has no jurisdiction to obstruct a state from certifying their vote Fiendish Thingy Nov 2020 #18
If scotus has no jurisdiction to stop PA from certifying... Chichiri Nov 2020 #29
Nobody has asked SCOTUS to prevent certification of votes by PA SOS Fiendish Thingy Nov 2020 #34
Then I may be misunderstanding the suit they filed this evening Chichiri Nov 2020 #36
It is not a general request to stop certification, it is a request to exclude certain ballots Fiendish Thingy Nov 2020 #39
It says "on a Commonwealth-wide basis" Chichiri Nov 2020 #40
Can those ballots even be identified at this point? Amishman Nov 2020 #41
This is about the ballots the state supreme court ruled DeminPennswoods Nov 2020 #46
This is regarding legislature ignoring popular vote and selecting Trump supporters helpisontheway Nov 2020 #22
This is regarding the myth that legislatures can act unilaterally to appoint electors: Fiendish Thingy Nov 2020 #35
SCOTUS won't hear any case that was ruled by the PA Supreme Court FakeNoose Nov 2020 #24
No, that's not accurate - SCOTUS can reverse state supreme courts, though they need a federal Alhena Nov 2020 #26
Civil war would break out vercetti2021 Nov 2020 #25
There definitely would be secession referenda. roamer65 Nov 2020 #32
PA would split in two. Amishman Nov 2020 #43
it doesn't matter, they will call AZ for Biden, and its over even without PA or GA. vsrazdem Nov 2020 #28
The sooner the better! Chichiri Nov 2020 #30
THIS. roamer65 Nov 2020 #31
Why only Pennsylvania and no where else? Rice4VP Nov 2020 #38
Then Republican House could be physically preventing from entering the chamber when there's a vote. David__77 Nov 2020 #42
SCOTUS has no jurisdiction in a state's certification process barring a clear case of systemic fraud yellowcanine Nov 2020 #44
It wouldn't matter dansolo Nov 2020 #45

hlthe2b

(101,705 posts)
2. An absolute lack of "cause," no evidence of anything and both PA law and constitution
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:04 PM
Nov 2020

are being adhered to by the state elections officials.

Chichiri

(4,667 posts)
7. Right, like I said, the suit is bullshit.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:06 PM
Nov 2020

But COULD SCOTUS prevent the certification if it decided to? If, like I said, it decided to embrace the bullshit?

hlthe2b

(101,705 posts)
11. They could send the five conservatives out to defocate in the woods on camera if they wanted to.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:09 PM
Nov 2020

That said, Roberts is intensely aware of the politicization of the court and is fighting back on that so there are some restraints. No doubt Thomas and Kavanagh would gladly sell their souls, regardless of legalities and Alito seems to hate everyone and everything enough to be a wildcard. The rest have a stake in not turning the SCOTUS into a kangaroo court--even Amy, given her doing so immediately would haunt and render her unredeemable for the next 40 years.

So, as soon as you can show me legal cause I might entertain your what if a bit more seriously.

onenote

(42,374 posts)
5. Why don't you list the other 1001 things you worry
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:05 PM
Nov 2020

the SCOTUS can’t be stopped from doing and get back to us.

hlthe2b

(101,705 posts)
15. I think violence might well break out if that or something equally egregious happened & they know it
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:14 PM
Nov 2020

treestar

(82,383 posts)
12. There has to be a legal question
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:10 PM
Nov 2020

they can't just do it because they want to. Not without losing the dignity of their position. They are appointed for life, Dotard cannot fire any of them. Do they want to look like complete idiots and write a really illogical, obviously stupid opinion that will enrage the nation against them? I don't think there are 5 of them that are that insane.

They did not decree that Bush be President. They decided a legal issue regarding ballots that meant Bush won Florida as a result. They had to write out why legally they were correct.

Nothing wrong was proven to happen in the PA recount, there are no hanging chads, and nothing whatsoever to use as a legal issue.

Frasier Balzov

(2,598 posts)
17. The relief sought is intended to pave the way for GOP-controlled state legislatures
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:24 PM
Nov 2020

to certify slates of Trump electors.

State legislatures have the absolute authority to send whoever they want, notwithstanding the popular vote in their states.

If enough confusion and doubt is cast upon the popular vote, these state legislatures will have all the cover they need to save Trump's bacon.

I realize that this explanation doesn't do anything to help talk you down.

I'm just sharing with you my perception of what you should actually be worrying about.

Frasier Balzov

(2,598 posts)
27. Asterisk: If the legitimate popular vote can be ascertained.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:55 PM
Nov 2020

He will have all the cover he needs to come through with Trump electors if the pretext of doubt has been lain adequately.

With credit to SCOTUS for the assist.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,362 posts)
18. SCOTUS has no jurisdiction to obstruct a state from certifying their vote
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:28 PM
Nov 2020

Instead of seeking someone to “talk me down”, why not walk us through the steps you are imagining will result in SCOTUS preventing PA from certifying their vote? Be specific, and show your sources.

It’s a state’s rights issue, and the Governor and SOS could tell SCOTUS to fuck right off, and proceed with certification and appointment of electors. What could SCOTUS do to enforce such an unlikely decision?

Absolutely nothing. It’s a “you and what army” situation, which is exactly why SCOTUS won’t touch it.

P.S. Biden could lose PA and still win, so there’s that. Trump would have to succeed in interfering with at least 3 states’ results to get to 270.

Chichiri

(4,667 posts)
29. If scotus has no jurisdiction to stop PA from certifying...
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 09:36 PM
Nov 2020

...then that answers that, I guess; I assume the lower court judges also don't have that jurisdiction. Were the repubs requesting that relief out of ignorance, or just to be jackasses?

Either way, thanks.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,362 posts)
34. Nobody has asked SCOTUS to prevent certification of votes by PA SOS
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 09:48 PM
Nov 2020

Trump and GOP have filed many suits, which have failed, but nobody has sought to get SCOTUS to prevent PA from certifying results.

Chichiri

(4,667 posts)
36. Then I may be misunderstanding the suit they filed this evening
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 09:54 PM
Nov 2020

as reported here https://democraticunderground.com/100214517548

This is not at SCOTUS, but they could elevate it there, couldn't they?

Fiendish Thingy

(15,362 posts)
39. It is not a general request to stop certification, it is a request to exclude certain ballots
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 09:57 PM
Nov 2020

From certification, and certain to fail.

Chichiri

(4,667 posts)
40. It says "on a Commonwealth-wide basis"
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 10:00 PM
Nov 2020

and asks for preventing certifying results which include certain ballots in the alternative to that.

Amishman

(5,540 posts)
41. Can those ballots even be identified at this point?
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 10:06 PM
Nov 2020

The ballot itself is anonymous, and I doubt they are keeping them with the envelopes at this point.

DeminPennswoods

(15,246 posts)
46. This is about the ballots the state supreme court ruled
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 10:58 PM
Nov 2020

could be counted if they were post-marked on or before election, but arrived up to 3 days later. These ballots were already being segregated, then counted. I'm not sure they even show up in PA vote totals. This, is, in fact what Alito ordered, segerate, then count, while SCOTUS considers the GOP request.

However, PA officials did a fantastic job getting the word out to all Pennsylvanians on how to get their ballots in by 8PM on election day. As a result, I don't think there's even that many ballots falling in the 3 day window. A complicating factor would be Judge Sullivan's order for USPS to sweep its facilities to find and deliver any ballots sitting around undelivered.

Trump's behind in PA. It's ok by me if he manages to get those votes not counted.

FakeNoose

(32,328 posts)
24. SCOTUS won't hear any case that was ruled by the PA Supreme Court
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:44 PM
Nov 2020

The PA Supreme Court has already ruled on this. That's the end of the line.
Bye-bye Repukes, don't let the door spank you on the way out.


Alhena

(3,014 posts)
26. No, that's not accurate - SCOTUS can reverse state supreme courts, though they need a federal
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 08:46 PM
Nov 2020

constitutional angle- they aren't supposed to overrule them on questions of state law.

roamer65

(36,739 posts)
32. There definitely would be secession referenda.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 09:42 PM
Nov 2020

I think they would pass in the Northeast and the Great Lakes states.

Amishman

(5,540 posts)
43. PA would split in two.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 10:15 PM
Nov 2020

Western PA isn't nearly as blue as it used to be - and central is as bright red as ever.

Upstate NY would probably also try to join with red PA.

David__77

(23,214 posts)
42. Then Republican House could be physically preventing from entering the chamber when there's a vote.
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 10:12 PM
Nov 2020

There's always an escalation, I suppose.

dansolo

(5,376 posts)
45. It wouldn't matter
Mon Nov 9, 2020, 10:48 PM
Nov 2020

If they did do something like that, Biden would still be elected. If Pennsylvania were not certified, then it would only take 260 electoral votes to win. The winner is determined by whoever gets the majority of electoral votes cast. 270 votes is only required if all of the electoral college votes are cast.

"The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed;"

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