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JoeOtterbein

(7,697 posts)
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 11:45 AM Nov 2020

Tlaib lashes out at centrist Dems over election debacle: 'I can't be silent'

Politico

In a scathing memo, progressives say centrists are playing into Republicans “divide-and-conquer racism.”

By LAURA BARRÓN-LÓPEZ and HOLLY OTTERBEIN

11/10/2020 09:04 PM EST

Updated: 11/10/2020 09:41 PM EST

Rashida Tlaib isn’t apologizing for wanting to yank money away from bad police departments. She has no second thoughts about her embrace of the Black Lives Matter movement, or for wanting to aggressively fight climate change.

House Democrats lost seats instead of expanding their majority, underperforming expectations across the board. And moderates have pounced on liberals like Tlaib, the Michigan congresswoman, accusing them of handing conservatives a set of slogans and policies to scare voters.

But Tlaib and other House progressives don’t want to hear it. It all amounts to unfair blame-casting designed to shame them into staying quiet, they say, right as Democrats gain control of the White House.

“We're not going to be successful if we're silencing districts like mine,” said Tlaib, who told her colleagues something similar during a contentious call last week. “Me not being able to speak on behalf of many of my neighbors right now, many of which are Black neighbors, means me being silenced. I can't be silent.”

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Tlaib lashes out at centrist Dems over election debacle: 'I can't be silent' (Original Post) JoeOtterbein Nov 2020 OP
We have a couple of runoffs in Georgia in January. Is this really helpful NOW!!! still_one Nov 2020 #1
+1 grantcart Nov 2020 #20
Agree that we shouldn't be sucked into a conversation about how much we hate the Doremus Nov 2020 #52
There are priorities. After the runoffs and the inauguration, let the debates begin for those that still_one Nov 2020 #53
She absolutely should be able to speak for her district. Is anybody telling her not to? octoberlib Nov 2020 #2
Not that I know of...she is mad because her power is limited due to the fact the House has more Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #5
Please be silent...we are not going to win in other districts if this continues...like the moderate Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #3
To be fair, Turin_C3PO Nov 2020 #8
Yep, Spanberger opened the can of worms. Can't put the genie back in the bottle now nt liskddksil Nov 2020 #9
NO zebrapa Nov 2020 #38
The moderate said it in a closed meeting...the word is it was not leaked by moderates. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #16
So, if you manage to excise all progressives Bettie Nov 2020 #39
I don't want to excise anyone...we need a big tent but they have accept that and that they are Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #44
And yet, no one else is being told to shut up Bettie Nov 2020 #45
The only moderate that I know of said her piece in a closed House meeting that was leaked. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #49
Talib needs to chill until after the Georgia runoff dlk Nov 2020 #4
Spanberger opened this can of worms with her divisive remarks on the Caucus call liskddksil Nov 2020 #7
She did it privately...not the same. And winning the Georgia Senate seats is vital. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #12
Absolutely vital, which why this is exactly the right time to figure out what went wrong liskddksil Nov 2020 #54
The circular firing squad should never be initiated. It is why we are on the ropes now... Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #10
It seems, though, that party loyalty only goes one way Bettie Nov 2020 #24
Yeah and I don't see them criticizing Brad Ashford who upon losing a primary liskddksil Nov 2020 #37
Of course not Bettie Nov 2020 #46
Here is the bottom line. You have to win. Progressives win in deep blue districts mostly in the Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #47
Oh yes, PLEASE PatSeg Nov 2020 #23
This is ridiculous. Turin_C3PO Nov 2020 #6
I agree with you. We must have a big tent party. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #11
Whether people want to admit it or not, we do have a big tent party. still_one Nov 2020 #13
We do....what we have lacked the last decade or so is party loyalty. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #17
very true still_one Nov 2020 #19
Whatever. The GOP used the evil, satanic socialist threat to scare Hortensis Nov 2020 #14
Yeah, the GOP never, ever did that before the Squad were elected. Mariana Nov 2020 #26
or Celerity Nov 2020 #33
Trashing...divisive. No point in this. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #15
Ahhh, Politico yet again... Spazito Nov 2020 #18
it seems to be their go-to play, the old Dems in disarray meme Celerity Nov 2020 #27
Exactly, they scour the political landscape to find shit like this... Spazito Nov 2020 #28
egzactly. mopinko Nov 2020 #36
Cori Bush was on MSNBC DeminPennswoods Nov 2020 #21
A lot of voters who may be defined as "centrist/moderate" Democrats PatSeg Nov 2020 #29
A good half of the Dems in the house are strong liberals Hortensis Nov 2020 #34
The end was the best. theaocp Nov 2020 #51
Oh THIS should be helpful! THANKS! NT Happy Hoosier Nov 2020 #22
Just lay low until Jan 21, then yap all ya want. BusyBeingBest Nov 2020 #25
Exactly PatSeg Nov 2020 #31
"House Democrats lost seats instead of expanding their majority" BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #30
+1 crickets Nov 2020 #40
Most, if not all, were seats that were flipped blue in 2018, and we picked up a few red seats. George II Nov 2020 #32
Defund the Police lost us several seats we should have won in Congress JCMach1 Nov 2020 #35
Isn't she the one who found it funny when Hillary Clinton was booed by her audience? ismnotwasm Nov 2020 #41
Yes she is. Surprised that she doesn't appreciate the fact that Hillary Clinton.... George II Nov 2020 #50
I don't really give a fuck about this in fighting... BlueLucy Nov 2020 #42
Thank-you still_one Nov 2020 #55
Always worth considering in situations like this- who is amplifying/exascerbating conflict w/in Dems Kashkakat v.2.0 Nov 2020 #43
She can speak her mind, but defunding the police is idiotic public policy. Alhena Nov 2020 #48

still_one

(91,937 posts)
1. We have a couple of runoffs in Georgia in January. Is this really helpful NOW!!!
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 11:51 AM
Nov 2020

I will follow the lead of Jay Clyburn and Stacy Abrams thank-you

Doremus

(7,261 posts)
52. Agree that we shouldn't be sucked into a conversation about how much we hate the
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:38 PM
Nov 2020

progressive wing of our party.


still_one

(91,937 posts)
53. There are priorities. After the runoffs and the inauguration, let the debates begin for those that
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:40 PM
Nov 2020

wish to engage, but right now from whichever segment, left, middle, or right within the party need to cool it until after the inauguration and runoff, because these type of debates do not help us at this time

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
5. Not that I know of...she is mad because her power is limited due to the fact the House has more
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 11:55 AM
Nov 2020

moderates than I hate to use the work progressive because we are all progressive but I suppose further left might work.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
3. Please be silent...we are not going to win in other districts if this continues...like the moderate
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 11:54 AM
Nov 2020

districts who gave us the house and helped us retain the house. Let me know when you can win in a red or purple district, and we can talk. What we want is reform...get bad cops off the streets. And what we don't need is comments like yours.

Turin_C3PO

(13,649 posts)
8. To be fair,
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:00 PM
Nov 2020

both moderates and progressives are engaging in the blame game when we should be united in getting rid of Trumpism. This kind of rhetoric might hurt us in Georgia if either moderates or progressives aren't motivated enough to get to the polls to defeat the two Rethugs.

zebrapa

(112 posts)
38. NO
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:00 PM
Nov 2020

James Clyburn and Tim Ryan pointed out this "can of worms" long before Spanberger. Several Dem congressional candidates mentioned getting slammed and hurt with defund the police ads aimed at them during the campaign.

Bettie

(15,995 posts)
39. So, if you manage to excise all progressives
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:29 PM
Nov 2020

from your party, will you win every election going forward because the message will be so moderate?

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
44. I don't want to excise anyone...we need a big tent but they have accept that and that they are
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:25 PM
Nov 2020

not the majority. Hell we even lost in New York this cycle. We won back the house with moderates. Everyone gets a say...but starting this shit with the Senate hanging in the balance and a tough Georgia recount is political malpractice...should know better.

Bettie

(15,995 posts)
45. And yet, no one else is being told to shut up
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:39 PM
Nov 2020

only progressives.

No one is telling the moderates or right leaners to sit down and shut up.

Whatever, most progressives know that we're not truly welcome in the party. The message has been extremely clear, we're only supposed to vote, not speak, not pursue an agenda of any kind, just vote for whomever we're told to and then STFU, because there's always some "upcoming XYZ" that requires silence.

Kasich and Steve Schmidt? They are adored. They can say whatever they want to and receive praise from the party.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
49. The only moderate that I know of said her piece in a closed House meeting that was leaked.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:46 PM
Nov 2020

None that I have seen have run to the newspapers or twitter. But let me be clear...no divisive shit from anyone period...even after the Georgia election.

dlk

(11,425 posts)
4. Talib needs to chill until after the Georgia runoff
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 11:54 AM
Nov 2020

Timing is everything in politics. There will plenty of time to initiate the circular firing squad afterward.

 

liskddksil

(2,753 posts)
7. Spanberger opened this can of worms with her divisive remarks on the Caucus call
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 11:59 AM
Nov 2020

it is our duty to respond.

 

liskddksil

(2,753 posts)
54. Absolutely vital, which why this is exactly the right time to figure out what went wrong
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:49 PM
Nov 2020

in the 2020 cycle, and course correct immediately so we have a chance in January.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
10. The circular firing squad should never be initiated. It is why we are on the ropes now...
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:01 PM
Nov 2020

There must be party loyalty or the Pugs will win. Imagine if we had President Obama's back in 10 and 14...I well remember the wars that went on here about 'message' voting which is and was a disaster for us. We need a big tent, and all must accept that. The only reason we got any form of Healthcare was Howard Dean's 50 state strategy lead to 60 votes in the Senate. And with the purity politics, our situation has worsened in terms of the Senate, house seats and state government.

Bettie

(15,995 posts)
24. It seems, though, that party loyalty only goes one way
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:22 PM
Nov 2020

Progressives are told to sit down and shut up.

Everyone else is free to say whatever they want to. And that message is usually that the "tent" is big enough for Republicans but not for progressives.

 

liskddksil

(2,753 posts)
37. Yeah and I don't see them criticizing Brad Ashford who upon losing a primary
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:50 PM
Nov 2020

for a Congressional Seat in Nebraska went ahead and endorsed the Republican, likely costing us the seat.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
47. Here is the bottom line. You have to win. Progressives win in deep blue districts mostly in the
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:41 PM
Nov 2020

House. We need Senate and House seats in states like Wisconsin, Georgia, Pennsylvania,North Carolina ETC...Progressives can't win there except in maybe deep blue pockets. And even that is tough in purple or red states. we have to coexist in a big tent which is the only way we ever win anyway. We can get climate change legislation, We can fix the ACA, we can work for justice by holding law enforcement accountable without using loaded terms such as defund the police,we can get infrastructure , invest in Green jobs and a $15.00 minimum wage...lets find common ground and do what is possible.

No one gets everything they want period. And some progressives who are complaining now before the Georgia Senatorial runoff are hurting our efforts to win the Senate. No one gets anything if we don't win and McConnell continues as the majority leader. Much of what certain progressives want is not possible given the house makeup. We don't have the votes. But maybe the answer is not to try to obtain power by demanding it but by going out and winning hearts and minds in all 50 states. We must have a 50 state solution and a big tent.

PatSeg

(46,773 posts)
23. Oh yes, PLEASE
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:21 PM
Nov 2020

There is so much at stake right now, can't she and some others just hold their tongues for a few months? The cameras will still be there and the issues are not going away. Time to get the big picture and make sure we have enough Democrats in the house and senate to combat right-wing republicans.

There will be time enough for infighting down the road. Meanwhile, the Democratic party represents what a diverse democracy looks like in a very diverse nation. One side does not fit all. People are exhausted after the last four years and most do not have the stomach for these kinds of fights right now, especially when there is a far greater adversary lurking behind the gates.

Turin_C3PO

(13,649 posts)
6. This is ridiculous.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 11:57 AM
Nov 2020

Centrists are blaming progressives and progressives are blaming centrists when we should be united in eradicating Trumpism. Infighting does us no good and only helps the enemies.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
17. We do....what we have lacked the last decade or so is party loyalty.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:13 PM
Nov 2020

And without that, we will lose. We need a 50 state strategy if we want the to have any majority in the Senate.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
14. Whatever. The GOP used the evil, satanic socialist threat to scare
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:10 PM
Nov 2020

millions of people into coming out of the woodwork to vote against a liberal party that this person smears as "centrists" but they believe are "socialists." Many of those millions are only a leader's order and a nearby mob away from mass violence to protect themselves and their nation from socialislm.

But it'd all be different if only we'd had the sense to reassure them that someday they, or at least their children, would have guaranteed jobs for life in cooperatives.



I believe Tlaib's probably totally sincere. I've encountered (and avoided) many like that over the decades. But if I had to choose between that and the alternative for myself, I'd have to choose to be a clear-eyed liar.

Spazito

(49,732 posts)
28. Exactly, they scour the political landscape to find shit like this...
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:30 PM
Nov 2020

they used to be somewhat less obvious but no longer, they are out and out slime and should be treated the same way Fox and OAN are here on DU.

DeminPennswoods

(15,246 posts)
21. Cori Bush was on MSNBC
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:18 PM
Nov 2020

last night. She made a lot of good points, but the most important was "don't be milquetoast, stand for something", people like that. That's the problem centrist/moderate Dems have and voters sense this, that they don't really stand for anything.

In PA, we have two DSA members of the state house. Two years ago, both ousted long-serving, moderate/centrist Dems, in fact at least one was a former cop, in their primaries. This time both were handily re-elected with one actually running unopposed and the other winning handily. Why? Because they know what they believe and say it.

PatSeg

(46,773 posts)
29. A lot of voters who may be defined as "centrist/moderate" Democrats
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:32 PM
Nov 2020

are actually liberal by nature, but are also pragmatic enough to know that consequential change does not come about without flexibility and compromise. Politics is a complex game that takes strategy and sometimes nuance. So many policies that we enjoy today did not become reality through activism alone. It is a difficult and complicated process and not everyone is cut out for it.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
34. A good half of the Dems in the house are strong liberals
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:44 PM
Nov 2020

who stand for great liberal ideals and work toward big, important goals, never least among them, though, honorably representing the people of their districtds.

Most of the other half are more moderate liberals (but not "moderates" ) who also stand for great liberal ideals and have big goals but generally believe deliberately careful and cooperative routes to achieving them are most likely to succeed.

The far-left quad is currently a trid since one distanced herself, though on January 3 they'll become 4 or 5. There are less than 30 conservative blue dogs, out of 235. And that completes the count.

Anyone who denies that is attempting to deceive. It's only fair to Cori (in case she deserves it) to point out that not all deceivers realize that. Many are just wired to restyle reality to suit their irrational views and had to disconnect from fact long ago to do it.

Btw, America's liberals are currently represented politically by the Democratic Party. Although our nation as a whole has traditionally averaged centrist, we average solidly liberal.

I've noticed, though, that many who call themselves Democrat don't know what liberalism is. (!) Kind of like Christians who wear that identity as a label but are strangers to its teachings. Equality is a place to start: We're the "all men are created equal" people. Individual rights, as opposed to duty to society or ruler, are another principle to start with: We're the "and are entitled to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, among others" people.

BusyBeingBest

(8,049 posts)
25. Just lay low until Jan 21, then yap all ya want.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:23 PM
Nov 2020

Jeezus, is it that hard? Edit to add: They ALL need to keep their yaps shut, until the Georgia elections and Biden takes office, moderates and conservadems included.

BumRushDaShow

(127,251 posts)
30. "House Democrats lost seats instead of expanding their majority"
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:34 PM
Nov 2020

Democrats across the board need to stop accepting the RW media narrative about the attempt to "expand" further into clearly GOP-gerrymandered seats. It was miraculous what happened in 2018 when Democrats nearly doubled a number of expectations for seat pickups, much of which were swing seats.

Until we get states un-gerrymandered with this upcoming census and redistricting process, we are pretty much at the wall for gains.

JCMach1

(27,544 posts)
35. Defund the Police lost us several seats we should have won in Congress
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 12:47 PM
Nov 2020

In TX and cost us the Legislature.

ismnotwasm

(41,916 posts)
41. Isn't she the one who found it funny when Hillary Clinton was booed by her audience?
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:39 PM
Nov 2020

Miss me with this shit.

George II

(67,782 posts)
50. Yes she is. Surprised that she doesn't appreciate the fact that Hillary Clinton....
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 04:19 PM
Nov 2020

....played a big part in why she's in the position she is today.

BlueLucy

(1,609 posts)
42. I don't really give a fuck about this in fighting...
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:41 PM
Nov 2020

We're in the middle of a attempted coup! Let's do this later!

Kashkakat v.2.0

(1,752 posts)
43. Always worth considering in situations like this- who is amplifying/exascerbating conflict w/in Dems
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:49 PM
Nov 2020

and WHY? Do we really need to know what some people said in some internal phone call mtg. somewhere? Those people involved ought to work it out amongst themselves. If they cant then how is it my problem.

Alhena

(3,014 posts)
48. She can speak her mind, but defunding the police is idiotic public policy.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 03:44 PM
Nov 2020

We should have well-paid GOOD cops like in Europe. Fire the bad ones.

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