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NRaleighLiberal

(59,940 posts)
Sat Nov 21, 2020, 11:57 PM Nov 2020

the groundwork for this bullshit was laid back in 2016 - Diane Rehm show, Scottie Nell

Hughes first came out with "no such thing as facts" (I remember I was doing errands and was listening to the show live, and nearly drove off the road when I heard that).

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/pro-trump-pundit-argues-theres-no-such-thing-facts-msna932571

What we are seeing with the way trump set the table doing into the election and everything since was this willingness to just say shit and it becomes truth....and to deny actual truth (with this endless string of lawsuits).

This, folks, is utterly fucking insane.

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the groundwork for this bullshit was laid back in 2016 - Diane Rehm show, Scottie Nell (Original Post) NRaleighLiberal Nov 2020 OP
Completely insane! Karadeniz Nov 2020 #1
So, facts are simply what the hearer chooses to believe. pat_k Nov 2020 #2
Isn't this sort of the standard position of postmodern philosophy? Klaralven Nov 2020 #3
So let's see NotANeocon Nov 2020 #5
This is possibly true Klaralven Nov 2020 #6
Perhaps - NotANeocon Nov 2020 #7
And social media cilla4progress Nov 2020 #4

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
2. So, facts are simply what the hearer chooses to believe.
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 12:16 AM
Nov 2020

The "consensus reality" of the propagandists is "truth." Evidence that can be examined and independently judged is completely unnecessary. You anti-Trump people have the your authorities and we have our "authorities." Ours contradict yours, so yours are wrong -- they are just trying to dupe us. We won't be fooled. We know better.

It's so scary. A world in which people -- perhaps even a majority -- believe whatever they are told by propagandists as firmly as others believe the conclusions they have reached based on repeatable studies and analyses that have stood up to critical examination over time.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
3. Isn't this sort of the standard position of postmodern philosophy?
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 12:20 AM
Nov 2020

Postmodernism, also spelled post-modernism, in Western philosophy, a late 20th-century movement characterized by broad skepticism, subjectivism, or relativism; a general suspicion of reason; and an acute sensitivity to the role of ideology in asserting and maintaining political and economic power.

...

Postmodernism is largely a reaction against the intellectual assumptions and values of the modern period in the history of Western philosophy (roughly, the 17th through the 19th century). Indeed, many of the doctrines characteristically associated with postmodernism can fairly be described as the straightforward denial of general philosophical viewpoints that were taken for granted during the 18th-century Enlightenment, though they were not unique to that period. The most important of these viewpoints are the following.

1. There is an objective natural reality, a reality whose existence and properties are logically independent of human beings—of their minds, their societies, their social practices, or their investigative techniques. Postmodernists dismiss this idea as a kind of naive realism. Such reality as there is, according to postmodernists, is a conceptual construct, an artifact of scientific practice and language. This point also applies to the investigation of past events by historians and to the description of social institutions, structures, or practices by social scientists.

2. The descriptive and explanatory statements of scientists and historians can, in principle, be objectively true or false. The postmodern denial of this viewpoint—which follows from the rejection of an objective natural reality—is sometimes expressed by saying that there is no such thing as Truth.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy

There are several more similar denials reason and objective reality.

It seems to me that if you believe in the postmodern philosophical position, you have to believe that Trump's facts are true so far as they are subjectively believed by his followers.

NotANeocon

(423 posts)
5. So let's see
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 04:22 AM
Nov 2020

If they firmly believe Newton was in error then Postmodernists are able to walk over a tall cliff and not die from the non-existent magnetic force drawing them to the base at 32 feet per second per second.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
6. This is possibly true
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 08:37 AM
Nov 2020

Although I suspect that Postmodernists rarely leave their armchairs, except to retire to the cafe for a cigarette and espresso.

NotANeocon

(423 posts)
7. Perhaps -
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 03:55 PM
Nov 2020

- it would have been better had I used a mythical ivory tower instead of a cliff in my musings. :}

cilla4progress

(24,585 posts)
4. And social media
Sun Nov 22, 2020, 12:20 AM
Nov 2020

Amplifies everything - including the fringe.

I dont think we are prepared to handle this.

You know what is truth? Nature. If we can put this all up against nature, maybe truth can be seen.

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