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Tue Nov 24, 2020, 08:27 AM

Build Back Better Has To Mean Permanence, Not Just Restoration

Last edited Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:40 AM - Edit history (2)

If the DOJ and 117th Congress don't pursue Trump,Trump will have been proven right when he said,
"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters, okay?"

He hasn't lost them, has he. In their America, Trump and the worst of Big Corp don't get jailed.

73 million voted for Trump's highest "American" values, loyalty and Rule of Men -- for a "campus" where the CEO punishes political 'enemies,' tears up international treaties, the law of the land.

Only once did he say he'd been "just joking." But the Republican leadership and voter referendum on his past doings prove they are not joking -- they want a leader who is above the law. So that they all may be with him.

22% of America voted for Trump, which is neither a marginal nor sizable minority, and have been enough to move the nation's governance to the twisted populism and fascism we only need experience once to learn the ugliness of.

24% of America (Democrats) have aggressively pressed to prove that no one can use the powers of office to be above it. They won, and now represent 78% of America that Trumpists don't.

It's fine to say that the NY AG or SDNY's case building and indictments are at least SOMETHING, and about one criminal.

BUT.

If the new AG fails to prosecute or support prosecuting 45's high crimes and misdemeanors, 80,000,000+ Americans who consider the new AG THEIR AG will not be okay with that. At all.

Because the real, larger issue of Rule of Law remains -- to build it back better as a bulwark of enforcement. 78% of the electorate are not joking, either.

The 78% know that belief in Rule of Men is not yet past.
73,000,000 Trumpists still see Rule of Law as Trump does -- weaponizable, dispensible so that men like he are the only platform they need -- while they draw Big Corp money into backing another fascist in 2024. The 78% know enough history to know that "let's move on" burying of American leaders' crimes got us here. Criminals learn, too. To only "go high," means that even building back better will be undone again.

Repair isn't just about restoration of unity or government.

Building back better is about leaving the destroyers no way to mobilize and return.


Building back better needs the General William Tecumsah Sherman version of 'hard war' unity --
making them know they have irrevocably lost, and they have no way back to destroy Rule of Law.

80,000,000 Americans expect THAT America -- the one that STAYS back better.
Because America of, by, and for The People, is not just an idea anymore.

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Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply Build Back Better Has To Mean Permanence, Not Just Restoration (Original post)
ancianita Nov 24 OP
AnnaLee Nov 24 #1
ancianita Nov 24 #3
beachbumbob Nov 24 #2
ancianita Nov 24 #4
beachbumbob Nov 24 #5
ancianita Nov 24 #6
beachbumbob Nov 24 #8
ancianita Nov 24 #14
Turin_C3PO Nov 24 #13
beachbumbob Nov 24 #15
ancianita Nov 24 #18
beachbumbob Nov 24 #20
ancianita Nov 24 #21
lagomorph777 Nov 24 #7
beachbumbob Nov 24 #9
Turin_C3PO Nov 24 #10
ancianita Nov 24 #12
ancianita Nov 24 #19
ancianita Nov 24 #11
beachbumbob Nov 24 #16
ancianita Nov 24 #17
beachbumbob Nov 24 #22
ancianita Nov 24 #26
MineralMan Nov 24 #23
ancianita Nov 24 #24
MineralMan Nov 24 #25
ancianita Nov 24 #27

Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 08:35 AM

1. What is permanence?

As I watch Trump destroy perfectly usable sorting machines, airplanes, and who knows what else, I cannot find permanence in anything that can be burned down. That leaves bare earth and soot.

Progress isn't permanent and shouldn't be.

So we are left with values. I'm not too impressed with religious values after humans decide what how they manifest. What can be done about bad people who think they are the good ones?

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Response to AnnaLee (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 08:41 AM

3. It's not academic. I mean permanence as 'hard war" unity that disables the weaponizing

of rule of law.

You think nothing is permanent in the philosophical sense, then in the political sense you'll get the change you don't want.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 08:37 AM

2. without a democratic senate, nothing can be done. BTW, what ever is built can be dismantled by the

 

next despot .

real change MUST happen at state and local levels. Areas that democrats continue to fail at. UNless we take back these offices, the same old crap will continue

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 08:47 AM

4. Nothing?

Last edited Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:52 AM - Edit history (1)

How we give up so easy, as if everything has to be perfectly in place before we can do some real good.

Take a helpless view about Democrats and they will continue to fail the way you think they do -- which is a distorted media-fed view, by the way.

You really could envision a party that is what you've seen in the face of the very worst the Republicans can throw at it: hard core fighters for the Rule of Law. We out-thought, out-fought and beat the Republicans and their men -- and they know it.

But they need constant reminding that they can't just slip back to govern in any alt-reality mindset or stealth practices.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 08:52 AM

5. last time I look, the 2020 election outcome outside of Biden was pretty miserable for democrats

 

every where. Our local Il-13 congress candidate who lost by less than 2500 votes in 2018 got cremated by over 20,000 votes this time. We lost state and local races all over America.
No one is saying to give up but we definitely need a change of direction as what we are doing is NOT working out too well. We suck at messaging and GOP kicks our ass time and time again. We suck at trying to "play nice" when our opponents play to WIN. Until we figure this out, we have problems that will not end.

Just saying from observing politics for 50+ years

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:00 AM

6. I hear you.

Yet, the national climate has just changed. I've thought about what you've observed.

Eight formerly red states just turned blue.

Proof that we don't suck at messaging. That's on the media, not the Democratic Party.

We've argued that for years here, about whether media's bias is anti-Demcratic Party, with its constant gaslighting, questioning, doubting the party for not being strong enough to "fix" their opponents and thereby the country.

We're not perfect, but we are, indeed, figuring out the messaging by our actions.


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Response to ancianita (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:04 AM

8. I don;t consider Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennyslvannia as ever being redstates to begin with

 

on National level, The only states turned blue were Az and Georgia.

Again, its the state and local offices where democrats got smashed and with thoses offices we have little input on redistricting and voting

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #8)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:20 AM

14. Fine. I just think they're called "battlegrounds" for a reason. And so my count.

Last edited Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:54 AM - Edit history (1)

On state and local levels, we might want to take another look at the Census count, and extend it. I'm not positive but pretty sure that Biden can have the latest Census process investigated to justify that extension.

In my view it should be totally redone as soon as any new state is added.

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:15 AM

13. Not true.

Biden can get a lot done at the executive area. He can reverse all of Trumpís executive orders and issue some of his own. All our departments will have competent people staffing them. Barr, Miller, DeVos, DeJoy, and many more will be gone.

No need to be pessimistic, we have too much work to do.

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:38 AM

15. the way it will go., GOP will file lawsuit to overturn Biden;s EOs, the courts will uphold the

 

lawsuit and disallow the EOs/. Why the fuck democrats didn;t do this over last 4 years is beyond me.

BTW, EO;s can not appropriate monies that are needed to say for a new COVID economic aid package. EO's can't name cabinet people. EO's can't change the taxcode, the criminal code.

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:56 AM

18. What are EO's?

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Response to ancianita (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 10:04 AM

20. executive orders

 

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 10:05 AM

21. Ah, thanks. Forgot.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:03 AM

7. What do you mean by 78% and 22%? I'm looking at 51% and 47%.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:05 AM

9. those claims made my head spin too, like where did those numbers come from?

 

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:12 AM

10. Probably including

the large amount of people who didnít vote. They may not be as involved as they should be but at least theyíre not fascists who adore Trump.

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:14 AM

12. Yes, it does.

We've run current numbers around here, and now after the election, I claim that that the Democratic Party 24% of America, instead of the Republican Party 22% of America, represent America.

That's 78%, both the voting and non-voting part.

That Biden says he'll work for the 22% who voted against him doesn't change a thing for them because they wouldn't do the same if they were in power, and so they don't care what he does, even if that helps their lives.

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 10:01 AM

19. They come from the 79,921,082 Democrats who are 51.0% of the total votes, and because of that,

They are the 24% of America (Democrats) have aggressively pressed to prove that no one can use the powers of office to be above it.

They won, and now represent 78% of America that Trumpist voters (22%) don't.

I'm looking to change the post-election percentage from the mere vote % (51% and 47% voting) to their being representative of the rest of the country.

Is that better?

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:12 AM

11. Okay. My frame is the general population of America and not just the electorate.

So in that general population frame, the current Democratic vote of 79,921,082 represent the nation more than the 73 mil Republican vote, or 22% of America. Democrats now represent 78% of the nation, is how I see the election.

(The Biden 51.0% and Trump 47.1% are only of the registered electorate. The whole adult population is 246,000,000 when you subtract 74 million minors and 10 million undocumented workers from the estimated 330,000,000 that's used in media.)

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Response to ancianita (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:39 AM

16. you are way too optimistic on the orientation of the non-voting American public

 

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 09:45 AM

17. Nope, you're way too pessimistic, stuck in the doubt zone. Count new voters.

Come ON, just look at the big under-30 vote increase.

Look at the 600,000 newly registered voters in GA.

We can never improve as a party if we stay stuck in old media stereotypes of us.

There is a bigger generation than boomers right now out there looking for someone to understand and welcome them.

We're IT! We can grouse and they can make fun of old farts but we're still unifying.

You're pessimism must not let you see that.



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Response to ancianita (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 10:06 AM

22. I am realist, otherwise how do explain the sweeping losses of democrats in senate and

 

house races? We are close to a 50-50 country not 75-25

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 10:25 AM

26. Me, too. What you call realism, I add a pessimistic optimism to.

We've won. To me that means a shift beyond any default to our longstanding internal pessimisms again.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 10:06 AM

23. Trump will leave office by resignation and will receive a blanket pardon

from Pence. We still need to investigate, of course, and he'll still be subject to state charges, but he will not be charged in federal court.

Trump is a stupid, stupid man, but he will protect himself from federal prosecution through a pardon by Pence.

When? I don't know, but I expect it to be sometime in January, perhaps as little as a week before the inauguration.

Joe Biden is going to have a great deal on his plate on January 21. I hope everyone will cut him some slack so he can catch up and get started undoing Trumps evil doings.

I won't be demanding anything. I will be so relieved to have Biden in the White House that I'm going to take a long breather. Those who attack him from the very beginning are foolish, foolish people.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #23)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 10:17 AM

24. I know. But your last sentence means more than you say.

Foolish people are still enough of a scream machine in media to minimize the work (as they always do when it's Democratic governance) and maximize Democratic differences/imperfections as illegitimate, or tyranny, terrorism, etc.

There is no reason that Biden can't undo damage while our DOJ also charges a treasonous act of harm with nullifying an international treaty. No pardons should be allowed to stop documented, evidence based charges. Real documented proof of real harm exists, such that pardons should no longer have the power to nullify.

All my silly "shoulds" aside, who's to say that, after the date of the pardon, Trump's leveraging of classified info won't be further legitimate bases of DOJ charges. My bet is that he continues to commit federal crimes after his pardon.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #25)

Tue Nov 24, 2020, 10:36 AM

27. Thanks for your link. I read you loud and clear.

Re federal charges, there will remain Title 18's two basic provisions -- Crimes and Criminal Procedure, that defines "principal" as meaning "perpetrator," and

Section 3 -- Accessory After The Fact, that defines any group of people who can be held criminally responsible for helping the perpetrator. The DOJ has a lot of them to charge by helping the pardoned Individual #1.

The DOJ can stop the criminality, injustice and past failure to hold criminals accountable.
It can begin to present the American people's case to a grand jury.

Congress can pass laws that harden enforceability of constitutional law and especially judicial branch rulings.

At least two branches -- the Executive and Legislative -- will have a lot to do.

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