This by @AOC .

[melman]

Last edited Thu Nov 26, 2020, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

[myccrider]

1. Yeah, what she said.

I had an interesting convo with a relative who is a private banker, meaning she personally services rich folks to keep their money at her employer’s bank. I was making points similar to AOCs about our system’s inequities and my relative said "but these aren’t bad people." My reply was "I’m sure many of them aren’t, just as many of the lords and ladies, kings and nobles of an earlier time were individually good people, by their lights, but the system they were on top of was still terribly unfair to the majority of people."

I could see that her brain, metaphorically, snapped back with surprise and revulsion. She changed the subject pretty quickly and we went on with what we were doing.

[melman]

11. Thanks

I gonna put that in the first post. Should have done that to start with.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

23. Welcome. Will delete mine, above, so as to avoid too much scrolling in discussion.

[Brainfodder]

3. All thoughts I have had for a very long time.

How you stop it?

New U.S. currency, and expire out the old, with a max limit on trading it in, will require a new price schedule on things!

NEXT!

[lunatica]

4. Paying all workers a wage they can live very well on is a start

That includes workers in factories, in farms, and all service industries.

Then paying taxes so everyone can have free education, healthcare, and guaranteed adequate housing.

These would be a good start and they could still live as they’re accustomed to.

[malaise]

13. Last night Chris Hayes showed farm workers picking several crops

and mentioned what they are paid. He asked people to thank them and consider their plight during Thanksgiving.

[lunatica]

14. I saw that

Getting paid a dollar a bucket is truly criminal. Kudos to Chris Hayes for showing that.

I’ve noticed that Chris has changed and become an advocate because of Trump. He’s stopped trying to be neutral. He’s much more involved with the plight of the undocumented and Trump’s criminal treatment of them. His face gets rigid with anger when he talks about the children in the cages and their subsequent treatment.

I hope everyone involved, from Trump to Stephen Miller to John Kelly to Kirsten Nielsen and everyone else connected to those children ends up rotting in jail.

[malaise]

16. Yes he's come a long way

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

8. This might help....

Sanders, Colleagues Introduce Tax on Billionaire Wealth Gains to Provide Health Care for All

Thursday, August 6, 2020

WASHINGTON, August 6 – Today, Senators Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Ed Markey (D-Mass.), and Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) introduced a 60-percent tax on the windfall wealth increases of billionaires during this pandemic in order to pay for all out-of-pocket medical expenses for every person in America for a year. Representative Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) introduced companion legislation in the House.

The Make Billionaires Pay Act would tax the $731 billion in wealth accumulated by 467 billionaires—the richest 0.001% of America—a from March 18th until August 5th, a period in which 5.4 million Americans recently lost their health insurance and 50 million applied for unemployment insurance. The funds from this emergency tax would be used to cover all necessary healthcare expenses of the uninsured and underinsured, including prescription drugs, for one year.

"The legislation I am introducing today will tax the obscene wealth gains billionaires have made during this extraordinary crisis to guarantee healthcare as a right to all for an entire year,” said Sanders. "At a time of enormous economic pain and suffering, we have a fundamental choice to make. We can continue to allow the very rich to get much richer while everyone else gets poorer and poorer. Or we can tax the winnings a handful of billionaires made during the pandemic to improve the health and well-being of tens of millions of Americans. In my view, it is time for the Senate to act on behalf of the working class who are hurting like they have never hurt before, not the billionaire class who are doing phenomenally well and have never had it so good."

"As more than 160,000 Americans have lost their lives and millions more have lost their jobs, it is unconscionable that the super-wealthy are getting even richer in the midst of this crisis," said Markey. "Despite overwhelming need, Republicans continue to look for any excuse under the guise of deficit reduction to cut vital support programs like jobless aid and health insurance for the most vulnerable. The American people pay with their lives every day for the criminal negligence of the Trump administration to combat the coronavirus. It is time the country’s wealthiest do the same off with their profits."

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-colleagues-introduce-tax-on-billionaire-wealth-gains-to-provide-health-care-for-all-

[betsuni]

5. Democrats aren't bribed by billionaires and are not corrupt.

Republicans are.

[theaocp]

6. What makes them immune

From human failings?

[betsuni]

7. They're not idiots.

[theaocp]

10. I think that's a naive approach.

It's not about intelligence or even wisdom. People are people. When the system has an incentive born of money, that becomes the motivating factor. It's corrupting and gross. However, give anyone the right circumstances and the donor class has a lot of leverage they should have taken away from them.

[George II]

25. I totally agree with you. Everyone can be corrupted by money, EVERYONE.

[AmericanCanuck]

35. Yeah ... look at Justice Democrats and huge sums of dark money they have accumulated

So, not only that EVERYONE can be corrupted by money, EVERYONE is capable of hypocrisy.

[George II]

39. Not just the organization, but dig into their FEC filings and those associated with them....

As they say, "Pot. Kettle. Black."

[JI7]

40. Also isn't Cenk trying to prevent his staff from forming a Union

I understand that he was actually a Republican for a long time and is a misogynist and so none of this is surprising .

But the point is that people who claim to be certain things are often not.

[AmericanCanuck]

45. Hypocrisy thy name is Cenk

[George II]

57. Yes, when it comes to him personally and business-wise he's very much against unionization...

It's just another example of do as I say, not as I do.

[lunatica]

15. Something does and it's probably something

in the physical brain. Science will find out someday soon. Studies are already making inroads.

[George II]

24. Some who bash billionaires gladly accept billionaire money.

[cwydro]

27. Yup.

What I just posted.

[cwydro]

26. Uh...proud Dem here. But we're not immune.

See John Edwards/Bunny Mellon.

Not bribery in that case, but she supported a corrupt and awful man.

[betsuni]

28. In general, no comparison -- Democrats have a conscience, Republicans don't. Dems feel guilty and

will likely get caught and their careers over.

People have different weaknesses. For some it's money, for others it's sex or something else. Some people are born with money but what they want more than anything is the thing they weren't born with: talent, physical attributes. I've known people like that. Wanted to be models or dancers, wrong body type. Artists, no talent.

I was just thinking about how propaganda created for left-leaning audiences in 2016 calling Hillary Clinton a "corporate *****" who only cared about money, only in politics for money. It was so stupid. Also, demonizing billionaires is pointless to me.

The idea that anybody can be bought is preposterous, guess that really is just me.

[cwydro]

29. Lol, yeah.

Sorry, I’m a bit more cynical.

[JI7]

37. But the Party rejected Edwards and he has no future in the party

That's the difference. I'm sure there will be democrats who do bad things but they are not going to get support .

[cwydro]

54. That's all well and good.

I only objected to the statement that no Dems are corrupt. Unfortunately, corruption is not limited to just one party.

Sadly, I could name a few Dem mayors convicted of taking money. One of them is making sounds like he wants to get back into politics. Smh.

[betsuni]

55. Nobody said no Democrats are corrupt.

Sadly, people these days don't know what a generalization is.

[cwydro]

63. "Democrats are not bribed by billionaires and are not corrupt."

Pretty clear statement to me. Perhaps a qualifier like “most” might have helped.

Sad thing about some of these public officials I mentioned...most of then were bribed for very small amounts of money. Many were bought for a few grand. Sad.

[panader0]

9. AOC may have a problem with speaking out un-politically,

but what she says is usually spot on. This statement is very good. I believe she has a real place in our
party's future.
The part about "systems" money, as she describes it, is insightful.

[AmericanCanuck]

38. What she wrote is actually a paraphrased version of Karl Marx

and his statements about private ownership of means of production.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. I SO agree with what she said

I still pinch myself sometimes that someone like her has achieved the prominence that she has already, in her early 30's!

[lunatica]

17. She's a troublemaker of the good trouble kind.

Loyal to her moral compass no matter the consequences.

[Kid Berwyn]

18. Bring that message to Georgia.

Explain how Moscow Mitch works for the billionaires, especially the Russian oligarchs, and it might prove effective across socioeconomic, generational and party lines.

[AmericanCanuck]

21. Socialism is not likely to sell in Georgia

It somewhat sells in the deepest of deep blue areas.

[Kid Berwyn]

22. AOC is a socialist?

I understood she considered herself a Democratic socialist. A big diff.

[AmericanCanuck]

30. Potaytos Potahtoes

[moonscape]

32. I do wish they'd call themselves Social Democrats ... n/t

[Kid Berwyn]

52. Social Justice Warriors

Got a nice ring to it, like Social Democrats.

And “more perfect Union.”

[AmericanCanuck]

56. So far the warriors are mainly fighting on twitter

to please the 15% of Democrats who dig such wars.

The message turns off most of the Democrats who are not on DU or another similar forum.

There are better ways to achieve social justice than socialism. Socialism's historical track record around the world is disastrous.

[Kid Berwyn]

59. Maybe if AOC delivered her message directly...

...it would be better received.

For instance, she was met with popular acclaim when she discussed on Fox News how humanity must redesign the global economy in order to address climate change, the Green New Deal. Yet, the conservatives do all they can to demonize her and her message.

I don’t know about you, but I hate having right wing assholes distort what I say.

[AmericanCanuck]

60. The green new deal is not a plan

It is only a wish list. It sounds great to talk about it but the hard work is in actually comping up with a plan which the squad doesn't have. Slogans and platitudes only go so far beyond the fan club. Rest demand an actual workable plan that will pass congress.

[PTWB]

31. Do you know what socialism means?

What do you think it means?

[AmericanCanuck]

33. I know what it means and I stand by my statement

Voters in Georgia are not going to study the microscopic nuances between socialists and social democrats. To most people it is one and the same.

By the way, there is no such thing as "Democratic socialist" -- there are "Social Democrats" and there are "Socialists."

Democratic socialist was a term coined by some to take the edge off the socialist thing but their economic message is identical to that of the socialists.

[PTWB]

34. What does socialism mean to you?

[AmericanCanuck]

36. Non sequitur

I am talking about voters in Georgia. Not about my own definition.

[PTWB]

42. Shrug.

You’re talking about your perception of voters in GA. To have any meaningful discussion about your perception we must first establish a baseline of how you are defining socialism. You’ve refused to define it.

To me that means you’re either not confident in your perception or don’t know how to articulate your understanding of socialism.

[AmericanCanuck]

43. I stand by my statement

notwithstanding your attempts to hijack it to personalities.

[PTWB]

46. Oh?

You opined that socialism wouldn’t sell in GA. I asked you how you defined socialism and you couldn’t (or wouldn’t) answer. 🤷🏻?♂️

[AmericanCanuck]

47. Non sequitur as I stated.

[PTWB]

49. How?

You gave your opinion that GA voters would reject socialism but then couldn’t (or wouldn’t) share your definition socialism.

You keep repeating “non sequitur” when you could have easily shared your definition any time you wanted to. You choose not to. I’m sure anyone following this thread will be able to infer why.

[Violet_Crumble]

51. I was going to ask for their definition of non sequitur...

I suspect that's another word that doesn't mean what they think it means

[Violet_Crumble]

50. You were asked what your definition of socialism was and refused to answer...

That has nothing to do with personalities. I'm also curious to know how you define socialism. I understand that a lot of Americans throw the terms communist and socialist around like they're weapons and have little to no grasp of what the definitions are, so I think it's very reasonable to expect that anyone on the Left who does it should be willing to define terms when they use them in earlier posts...

[R B Garr]

53. Exactly. Voters aren't going to waste time being browbeaten,

scolded and talked down to about what socialism means. If we look at the election results, we see the losses which confirms not even Democrats want to change the party to socialism. How many more losses until they get the message.

[radius777]

61. AOC is not to the left of FDR

when it comes to economics, one of the greatest presidents in American history.

AOC is a progressive who supports a larger social safety net etc - call it democratic socialism or social democracy or whatever - but this idea held by some that she is a radical is absurd.

On most issues I'm the typical Clinton/Obama Dem - but this party is never going to be a force until we listen to progressives - many of whom are highly intelligent like AOC and bring a fresh perspective.

We lost seats in Congress not because of 'the radical left' or whatever the media would have us believe. Bustos/DCCC ran a very bland campaign that appealed to nobody, that was the problem. We need to stand for things and defend our base better, as voters may not know much about politics but they can sense when a party is embarassed about its base. The Repubs are the worst but they never 'forsake' their own.

[AmericanCanuck]

62. We tried "progressive force" before with McGovern, Dukakis and Mondale

It didn't work out so well.

[bullwinkle428]

41. Do you think a $15 minimum wage falls under the blanket of "socialism"?

Because that passed in a state that also voted for Trump.

[AmericanCanuck]

44. No it does not

Minimum wage increase has always been a part of mainstream Democratic priorities. It is ludicrous for the far left to claim credit for it.

Many mainstream Democrats have championed an increase in minimum wage. It is hypocritical to attribute it solely to the ultra-left.

[betsuni]

48. Fight for Fifteen began in 2012 and became a national movement.

Cities like Seattle passed $15 minimum wage years ago. Grassroots movement. No connection with Bernie Sanders/Justice Democrats so not connected with "socialism." They took up the $15 minimum wage fight years later.

[melman]

20. Ah, the old "they don't really have all that money" gag

A classic.