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Is it possible for Biden to institute Net Neutrality? (Original Post) TomDaisy Nov 2020 OP
He can appoint FCC commissioners blogslut Nov 2020 #1
Yep. I would like to see the Fairness Doctrine reinstated. That has been extremely damaging to USA. TheBlackAdder Nov 2020 #35
I suppose it would be a preventive action just in case, but has anyone Hoyt Nov 2020 #2
YES! PTWB Nov 2020 #3
Please tell us about someone hurt. And please no COULD BE hurt article links. Hoyt Nov 2020 #5
What? PTWB Nov 2020 #6
I do a lot of research on internet, political and otherwise. It seems to hum Hoyt Nov 2020 #8
Who should we believe? kcr Nov 2020 #9
Lots of "might be" and "could be" in that article. Hoyt Nov 2020 #10
Show your work kcr Nov 2020 #11
There have been countless studies showing that ISPs are throttling traffic to video providers. PTWB Nov 2020 #12
I'm more concerned about getting aid to unemployed, healthcare, restoring Hoyt Nov 2020 #13
What? PTWB Nov 2020 #15
No, Biden's FCC will take care of your concerns, which I don't think really exist right now. Hoyt Nov 2020 #23
Net neutrality is wildly popular. PTWB Nov 2020 #24
Just not that big a deal right now. "Disastrous" is somewhat hyperbolic, don't you think? Hoyt Nov 2020 #26
The rhetoric on both sides of the net neutrality issue has been hyperbolic. onenote Nov 2020 #21
Under net neutrality there is no risk of harm. PTWB Nov 2020 #25
Don't think they are interested in losing millions, tens of million customers, by screwing up our Hoyt Nov 2020 #27
That's absurd. PTWB Nov 2020 #28
None of the stuff you fear regarding net-neutrality has happened. Hoyt Nov 2020 #30
LOL PTWB Nov 2020 #32
Eh PTWB Nov 2020 #34
Agree they are at "mercy." So far, ISP are still meeting requirements of paying customers, be it Hoyt Nov 2020 #36
What on Earth? PTWB Nov 2020 #37
Happy Thanksgiving, PTWB. Hoyt Nov 2020 #38
Oh, I have no complaints with my ISP currently. PTWB Nov 2020 #39
I keep getting, "Your Internet Connection is Unstable" in Zoom LeftInTX Nov 2020 #31
It's possible. PTWB Nov 2020 #33
Guess there's no need to bother with smoke detectors then kcr Nov 2020 #7
We still want it to be declared a public utility blogslut Nov 2020 #20
Yes I mean indirectly by appointing FCC comissioners who will. Statistical Nov 2020 #4
IIRC the president's party gets 3 of the 5 commissioners including the chair rurallib Nov 2020 #14
can't wait for the door to hit smart-mouth smart-ass trumper Ajit Pai on the way out TomDaisy Nov 2020 #16
amen to that rurallib Nov 2020 #17
Michael Copps is 80 years old. He's not coming back to the FCC. onenote Nov 2020 #22
I was wondering how old he is - thanks rurallib Nov 2020 #29
It will be subject to court challenge and the outcome would be uncertain. onenote Nov 2020 #18
It will be interesting to see how things play out at the FCC onenote Nov 2020 #19
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
2. I suppose it would be a preventive action just in case, but has anyone
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 08:43 PM
Nov 2020

actually been hurt under current policies?

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
5. Please tell us about someone hurt. And please no COULD BE hurt article links.
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 08:53 PM
Nov 2020

I’m looking for actual harm, not COULD BE.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
6. What?
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 08:55 PM
Nov 2020

Carriers have routinely throttled traffic they don't like - Netflix and YouTube are the two most commonly throttled services - ever since net neutrality was overturned by Ajit Pai and crew.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
8. I do a lot of research on internet, political and otherwise. It seems to hum
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 09:01 PM
Nov 2020

just fine.

I think throttling — at least nowadays — is pretty much a myth or fear. But like I said, changing policies might be a good preventive measure for future. I think we have more important stuff to concentrate on early on.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
12. There have been countless studies showing that ISPs are throttling traffic to video providers.
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 09:06 PM
Nov 2020

This is not a power that ISPs should have. Restoring net neutrality (which the Trump administration eliminated) should be a 'first 100 days' priority for Biden's administration.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
13. I'm more concerned about getting aid to unemployed, healthcare, restoring
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 09:11 PM
Nov 2020

international relations, etc. Haven’t heard anyone complain about internet spread in years.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
15. What?
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 09:27 PM
Nov 2020

Are you under the impression that the FCC is responsible for getting aid to the unemployed? Or has anything to do with healthcare? Or international relations?

The Federal Government is enormous. There are many facets, each capable of doing many different things simultaneously. The FCC restoring net neutrality will not impact aid to the unemployed one iota.

While you may not have heard anyone complain about internet (speed?) in years, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It isn't even related to what we're discussing, not really anyway. We're talking about ISPs having the ability treat traffic A differently than traffic B. Internet access should be treated exactly as a common utility.

If you want to talk about atrocious broadband speed more generally, though, we can certainly do that. American broadband infrastructure is severely lacking.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
23. No, Biden's FCC will take care of your concerns, which I don't think really exist right now.
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 11:04 PM
Nov 2020

But, I'll admit, I could be wrong.

I do agree 100% the infrastructure should be vastly improved. That can do a lot to solve the whole rural/rube vs. urban area divisiveness. However, that really doesn't have much to do with net neutrality, at least directly.

And yes, I'm not for wasting Biden's political capital in the near term on net neutrality. Unemployment, education, healthcare, etc., are much more important. Sorry I didn't spell that out to you.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
24. Net neutrality is wildly popular.
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 11:16 PM
Nov 2020

Reversing the Trump administration’s disastrous decision to abandon net neutrality isn’t going to prevent Biden from doing anything else that is also important.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
26. Just not that big a deal right now. "Disastrous" is somewhat hyperbolic, don't you think?
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 11:23 PM
Nov 2020

To me, that's a term you'd use for something Biden needs to go to the wall for before tackling almost anything.

With that said, I can't get access to my favorite guitar site at the moment.

onenote

(42,374 posts)
21. The rhetoric on both sides of the net neutrality issue has been hyperbolic.
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 10:48 PM
Nov 2020

Those opposed to net neutrality claimed that the adoption of the rules would kill the internet. But the internet did just fine during the years the rules were in place.

Those in favor of net neutrality claimed that the internet would be destroyed if the rules were repealed. But that hasn't happened either.

In the end, the rules may or may not have some impact around the margins, but most people won't really notice very much.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
25. Under net neutrality there is no risk of harm.
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 11:19 PM
Nov 2020

Without net neutrality there is risk of harm. Do you really trust Verizon or Comcast to do what is in the best interest of the consumer?

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
27. Don't think they are interested in losing millions, tens of million customers, by screwing up our
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 11:26 PM
Nov 2020

phones, internet surfing, blogging, small businesses, etc. I believe they'll strike a proper balance and if not Biden's FCC will do more than write them a letter.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
28. That's absurd.
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 02:13 AM
Nov 2020

There’s absolutely no consumer benefit to allowing an ISP to treat some traffic differently than other traffic. ISPs must be treated and regulated as title II common carriers.

They are damn near monopolies in many cities. Here is a map of access in the Twin Cities from 2014.

What choice does the consumer have?

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
32. LOL
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 11:41 AM
Nov 2020

We already talked about this up thread. They absolutely are already throttling traffic.

Further, you completely dodged the destruction of your “just find another ISP” nonsense. For many, there is exactly one broadband provider in their community.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
34. Eh
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 11:55 AM
Nov 2020

“It seems to hum just fine” is where we are going anchor our argument?

We had net neutrality protections briefly under Obama. They were gutted under Trump by Ajit Pai (former Verizon counsel). Now you have millions of Americans at the mercy of the ISPs that have natural monopolies where they live.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
36. Agree they are at "mercy." So far, ISP are still meeting requirements of paying customers, be it
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 01:14 PM
Nov 2020

YouTube, NetFlix, DUers, researchers, colleges teaching on-line, rubes posting confederate flags and similar crud, etc. I think they will continue to do that, especially with a Biden FCC.

But, hey, if you want to go to the wall on this -- when there are so many other things to worry about and for Biden to spend his political capital -- have at it.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
37. What on Earth?
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 01:40 PM
Nov 2020

You're talking in circles, friend! We've talked about all that before - the idea that we would need to 'go to the wall' or that Biden would have to expend any appreciable political capital is simply not true.

Why do you prioritize the interests of monopolistic ISPs ahead of the interests of consumers?

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
38. Happy Thanksgiving, PTWB.
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 02:59 PM
Nov 2020

I'm glad to have my ISP. I can work at home. Research in ways that living in a library 20 years ago didn't allow. Even enjoy posting to DUers in most cases.

I sincerely hope you can find an ISP that meets your needs.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
39. Oh, I have no complaints with my ISP currently.
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 03:16 PM
Nov 2020

My main ISP supplies symmetrical gigabit fiber for an affordable $65/ month with no caps and they don’t engage in any throttling. My backup ISP does engage in throttling but they’re only a failover in case the first one goes down (it’s been over a year since they had an outage).

But that doesn’t mean that net neutrality isn’t a critically important issue. It is quite selfish to assume that because you don’t feel personally affected, others are not.

Again, I am forced to ask the question you haven’t answered: Why do you prioritize the interests of monopolistic ISPs over the interests of consumers?

LeftInTX

(24,541 posts)
31. I keep getting, "Your Internet Connection is Unstable" in Zoom
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 10:46 AM
Nov 2020

My provider is Spectrum: 1000/1000 (Mbps)
Speed Test the other day showed: 229/11.3 Mbps....(just as a random test, done on two separate days, just now and the other night, but this should be adequate for Zoom)

I wonder if I am getting throttled in Zoom?

Yeah, I know my internet is slower than it should be, but the only site I consistently have problems with is Zoom. (The slower than purchasing is a perpetual problem with Spectrum, but we don't have problems with Netflix, YouTube etc)

I do not have a data cap.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
33. It's possible.
Thu Nov 26, 2020, 11:50 AM
Nov 2020

It’s just as likely that Zoom can’t keep up with the demand and their servers are struggling. The problem is that it could by the ISP intentionally throttling Zoom.

One of Zoom’s competitors could pay Spectrum $10m to give traffic to their service priority over Zoom and anyone who is stuck in a Spectrum monopoly area would just have to deal with it. It’s absolutely abhorrent.

We had net neutrality briefly under Obama but under Trump, Ajit Pai (former and future Verizon shyster) eliminated our net neutrality projections.

blogslut

(37,955 posts)
20. We still want it to be declared a public utility
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 10:48 PM
Nov 2020

And regulated thusly. Things have gotten quite complicated in the past 8 years. And yes, there is a problem. The ISPs charge ridiculous prices for minimal service and limited access. Part of Net Neutrality is nationwide, affordable, broadband coverage.

rurallib

(62,342 posts)
14. IIRC the president's party gets 3 of the 5 commissioners including the chair
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 09:23 PM
Nov 2020

so depending on who Biden appoints and senate approves.

OMG would I love to see Michael Copps come back to the FCC.

onenote

(42,374 posts)
18. It will be subject to court challenge and the outcome would be uncertain.
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 10:39 PM
Nov 2020

Ultimately, the imposition of network neutrality rules turns on a question of statutory interpretation. Th FCC originally reached one conclusion, the Pai Commission reached a different conclusion. Depending on the panel of judges -- and ultimately on the Supreme Court -- a reversal back to the original interpretation could be struck down. The chances of that happening are even greater now because there is a growing sentiment amongst the republicans on the Supreme Court against giving "deference" to an agency's interpretation of the statute under which it operates.

But I would expect a proceeding to be started....but not to be acted on very quickly.

onenote

(42,374 posts)
19. It will be interesting to see how things play out at the FCC
Wed Nov 25, 2020, 10:46 PM
Nov 2020

One of the Republicans, Mike O'Rielly, is leaving and Trump has named his replacement. Will the Republicans ram through his nomination or will it stall out long enough so that Biden can fill that seat (albeit with another Republican)? The term of one of the Democrats on the Commission, Jessica Rosenworcel, expires in June -- will she be renominated? Probably. Some even speculate she might be elevated to be the chair, since there's never been a woman at the head of the FCC.

One issue that will be taking up a lot of the conversation -- maybe more than net neutrality -- is the so-called Section 230 proceeding, which would look into regulating social media. There is support on both the left and right, but there also is opposition. For example, O'Rielly, a reliable right winger, was against regulating social media on first amendment grounds and the two Democrats also believed it was not something the FCC had jurisdiction to address. Trump's replacement for O'Rilly would give Pai the third vote he needs, which is why I expect an attempt to push that nomination through before Biden takes office.


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