Can a President pardon himself or others he's involved with committing crimes?

[duforsure]

I don't think he can . He may try to , but it can't stand, or he could do anything he wants , even corrupt his elections. Can he pardon others he's involved with committing crimes. Again I think if challenged it can't stand or he could instruct them to break any laws he wants on his behalf knowing they will go scott free, letting corruption run wild using others for criminal purposes for personal benefits. It would also bypass the courts and put him, and others above the law, and make the Supreme Court powerless against corruption and criminals.
They would be idiots to rule making themselves targets for him without any consequences. They won't put the President above the rule of law, or we'll have more criminals running for office to abuse and escape justice. Even these justice should understand that.

[beachbumbob]

1. no such thing as a "preemptiv pardon" and a self-pardon would be challenged to SC with a likely loss

I hope he does both so these pardons can be invalidated and they face the full force of a Biden DOJ

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Here's the thing: the meter's back on as soon as the Pardon is signed.

Meaning that all FUTURE crimes are prosecutable.

[EnterwebsJohn]

4. WTF about the 5 yr waiting period required before

a criminal can be elligible to apply for a pardon (from the date of the federal conviction.) Is this just for the common man and not the elitist ruling class?

Specified in #3 here: https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon-information-and-instructions

[Voltaire2]

7. That process is outside the constitutional power.

The constitution just grants the executive the power to pardon. Except for impeachment, no other limits are mentioned.

[StarfishSaver]

9. That's not a law. It's just DOJ policy governing how the pardon attorney handles pardon petitions

But a president isn't required to follow it and can pardon anyone at any point in time and regardless whether they submitted a pardon petition through DOJ.

[Maxheader]

5. Interesting...lots of discussion,

On the pardoning, going on. What can be done, legally. You know some

of the wingers are pretty nuts right now...more so than usual ...

Thought I saw a news clip on stumpys kids getting pardons?...

[2naSalit]

6. Lawrence Tribe...

Was on Lawrence O'Donnell's show last night and he had a very good discussion on the topic.

[Voltaire2]

8. He will test that out soon.

And anyone who claims they know how this Supremely Fucked Up Court is going to rule is not thinking clearly.

[beachbumbob]

11. even conservative judges value the law as we have seen in the past 4 weeks, so I see

no way this SC is going to validate either a self-pardon or a "general get out jail free pardons" for crimes known and not known, In nixon's case, the ford pardon had a specified time frame the pardon was applicable, the term of Nixon serving s president, so even a self pardon, following the Nixon precedent, it would ONLY apply to crimes trump committed between Jan 2017 and Jan 2021, and would not shield him for all the crimes he and his minions did prior to being elected. Either way trump is fucked and ONLY recourse is to leave the country. NEW investigations into additional crimes can be had at the federal level on all those who received a trump pardon as a pardon is tied to specific crime/convictions

[Hugin]

12. Even a time limited blanket pardon is problematic.

Say the President has political rivals he wants gone. With a time limited blanket pardon he gathers a group of thugs pre-blanket pardons them and they go kidnap the rivals without legal ramifications.

[beachbumbob]

14. NO way any court allows a "blanket pardon" without indictments/convictions already done AND the

use of a pardon as a criminal act enabler will not be looked upon kindly either. The are some basic fundamentals of the law that even conservative judges will uphold

[StarfishSaver]

19. Blanket pardons for crimes that may have been committed are permitted, even without conviction or

indictment are permitted.

Nixon was pardoned for any crimes he committed or may have committed at any time during his presidency, although he was never indicted or convicted of any wrongdoing.

[StarfishSaver]

16. I think it's those who continue to insist, against all evidence to the contrary

that the federal courts are in Trump's pocket and will trample all over the Constitution in his service who are not thinking clearly.

[Hugin]

10. Are pardons specific or is the so-called blanket pardon a thing?

In the latter case I can see someone getting a get-out-of-jail-for-life card and then going on a crime spree from then on. What's the point of having laws, if this class of people can be created who are above them?

[NYC Liberal]

13. Blanket pardons are possible. But pardons are only for previously committed crimes,

not future ones. So in your example, a president could pardon them after their crimes but not essentially immunize them for life.

[beachbumbob]

15. whats muddying the water, there is a difference in "blanket pardon for crimes committed" and

"pre-preemptive pardon" for unknown crimes committed. No court is going to uphold such a pardon as being valid.

[StarfishSaver]

17. You're describing the same thing.

The actual distinction is between a pardon granted for any and all crimes committed up until the date of the pardon ("blanket" pardon) and a pardon for future crimes committed after the date of the pardon ("pre-emptive" pardon). The first is permissible. The second is not.

[NYC Liberal]

18. Are you talking about a pardon that would say

“X is pardoned for any and all crimes that might have been committed” vs “X is pardoned for these specific offenses”? The latter was given by Ford to Nixon:

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.