Mike Pence Cannot Block the Certification of Joe Biden's Victory When the Senate Formally Counts

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Electoral College Votes on Jan. 6th

President Donald Trump’s quest to overturn the results of the 2020 election have been rejected at every turn, resulting in an unprecedented string of court losses that have left the former “Apprentice” host and his supporters to pursue increasingly impractical efforts to remain in power. Chief among the latest exercises in futility is Trump imploring Vice President Mike Pence to prevent ratification of Joe Biden’s victory when the Senate counts the Electoral College votes next month.

The Electoral College formally selected Biden as the next U.S. President on December 14 when each state’s electors publicly cast their official votes. There is no mechanism for reversing these votes, and on Jan. 6, the House and Senate will meet to count those votes. Under the 12th Amendment, Pence is constitutionally mandated to preside over the joint session of Congress which will accomplish the task.

Trump on Wednesday retweeted a theory from one of his supporters calling for Pence to reject the certificates of votes from Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, falsely claiming those states did not “receive a constitutionally permissible slate of electors.”

Unfortunately for Trump, legal experts say Pence has absolutely no authority, constitutional or otherwise, to prevent ratification of the electoral college votes. The Constitution states that Pence “shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.” The “shall” in the provision is an imperative command, unambiguously requiring the act be completed, making Pence’s role merely ceremonial.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mike-pence-cannot-block-the-certification-of-joe-bidens-victory-when-the-senate-formally-counts-electoral-college-votes-on-jan-6th/ar-BB1cfgXE?li=BBnb7Kz

[Thekaspervote]

1. And if for some reason pence doesn't want to perform that duty, it changes nothing

Next in line to tally the votes would be grassley

[treestar]

2. It's all past silliness now

In no way did the Founders intend any such up-ending of an election to be possible. These are mere formalities. No state would stand for it, either! To have your state's election annulled just because the incumbent did not like its result? It is only a pathetic attempt at disenfranchising the majority for no reason other than not liking the result, in a system they were fine with in 2016 when its technicalities did allow a loser to assume the office.

[elleng]

3. SHALL is the operative word,

he has no choice.

[PCIntern]

4. Yes and the oath of office which Trump repeated

Was that he shall faithfully execute blah blah blah. But he didn’t.

[Myrddin]

33. Just what I'm thinking too. n/t

[Joinfortmill]

5. So sick of this man-baby

[SWBTATTReg]

6. The world's biggest loser is also the world's biggest baby...why doesn't this POS grow up and

be an adult?

[Irish_Dem]

7. How nasty are the tweets going to be when Pence does not do Trump's bidding? nt

[BComplex]

34. Maybe the "base" will finally let the republican party go to pasture.

We can always hope.

[Irish_Dem]

35. I think the GOP is on its last legs. The base is the Trump party, not GOP. nt

[kurtcagle]

8. Gaming Rules Lawyer

OVer the years, I've run a number of role-playing game sessions, from D&D to GURPS to Call of Cthulu. Every so often, we'd get someone in our group - usually male, teenaged or early twenties, and white - who would try to rule lawyer their way out of every negative action, throwing up every excuse they could find in the rules (which as GM, I generally treated more as guidelines anyway) for why their character's stupid action didn't get them fireballed, petrified, or losing their +5 Holy Sword of Greatness. Typically, once they saw how the landscape lay, they bailed to find some other group to try to take advantage of.

Trump reminds me a lot of these guys. He put the absolute minimal amount of work into any decision or initiative (which usually ended up being a boondoggle), and when he inevitably faced a day of reckoning and lost, he'd throw up every obstacle in the book, while simultaneously shouting abuse at the people who held him to task. What's worse, as each loophole he tried to exploit became more and more silly, even his allies would abandon him because he got in the way of actually playing the game.

Had Trump put some effort into stopping Covid-19, he would have had a second term. Had he bowed out gracefully when it became evident that Biden had beaten him, he might have been able to play a position as Kingmaker in the GOP moving forward, possibly even running for re-election in 2024. Now, I think even his closest associates have to recognize that Trump deserved to lose, which means that this will likely be the first, last, and only elected office that he will ever have. Good riddance to him.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

29. Very astute!

Had Trump put some effort into stopping Covid-19, he would have had a second term. Had he bowed out gracefully when it became evident that Biden had beaten him, he might have been able to play a position as Kingmaker in the GOP moving forward, possibly even running for re-election in 2024

There's a strong element of laziness that led to his downfall. It's much easier to just lie. Good thing he's a narcissist because it made him think he was omnipotent and that everyone really did love him.

[FakeNoose]

9. He only votes in the case of a tie

... and that only happens in the Senate, not in the Electoral College.

[MineralMan]

10. And, since he was the Republican candidate for VP,

a conflict of interest would block him from voting, even if there were a tie in the Senate about something regarding this tally of electoral votes.

[StarfishSaver]

15. There is nothing that would prohibit him from voting, even if there were a conflict of interest

[onenote]

28. The only vote the Senate would take would be on a challenge to a electoral slate and Pence

could vote if a tie occurred in the Senate. There is nothing in the Constitution, the US Code, or the rules of the Senate that would preclude him from voting. Just as there would be nothing to prevent the Speaker of the House from voting if he/she was a nominee for President or Vice President.

[wiggs]

11. It would be 'against the rules' certainly. Possibly unconstitutional. But how long would it take

to resolve, if he did try? Is there any reason to believe that trusting elected republicans to do the right thing is a reliable, valid practice?

What will he do when ALL eyes on are him to open and count the votes? Take the opportunity to delay? Take the opportunity to make a statement? Will he gavel down rowdy gop senators in the manner of Gore in 2000? Will there be protests outside trying to convince Pence and everyone else of the 'hoax?' Will he defer to Grassley? What is Trump telling Pence? Giving orders? Threatening to end the gop if Pence doesn't come through? Making a deal?

In the end, Biden will take office...but based on past behavior, a long record of ratfuckery, I have to think the gop will NOT make this an easy, normal process on Jan 6. With them, EVERYTHING is about the partisan battle and the ends always justify the means.

[Mr.Bill]

12. Just for the sake of a theoretical arguement,

What would happen if Pence stood there with the gavel and said "Because of obvious election fraud, the chair declines to accept the electoral votes from the following states..."

[LymphocyteLover]

13. exactly-- and how much pressure is Dump putting on him to do that?

[StarfishSaver]

16. He has no power to accept or reject any electoral votes

[Mr.Bill]

18. Sure, and this administration

has never tried to do something they don't have the power to do, right? If they did try this, the Trumpers would go nuts and say we "rammed it through anyway", just giving more creedence that this was a fraudulent election.

[StarfishSaver]

22. Again. He has no power to accept or reject the vote

You can come up with "what if?" scenarios until the end of time. That doesn't mean it's going to happen and doesn't mean it's going to work. In fact, it's just a waste of time and useful only to those who are looking for things to worry about.

[Mr.Bill]

23. Thank you, I can read.

As I stated, this is a theoretical discussion. If you don't wish to participate, then simply don't.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

30. Lol. "Thank you I can read!". You go Mr. Bill!

[LiberalLovinLug]

27. Yes, it would be inpecedented.

Is there written in law somewhere that if Pence says what you wrote above that he'd say, and declares fraud, would it follow that if he did that, and banged the gavel to close the session, that Grassley was backed by law, or written into the Constitution, a requirement that Grassley run up to the mic and say "no no no....its not adjourned.....I will do the the ratification, despite the VP's statement"?

I don't think, in the end, it would work, but perhaps it would drag it out for a few days, while they figured out what to do. During which OANN and NewMax maybe even a few at Fox would start celebrating. Rile up the red hats even more by getting their hopes up. Make them even more bitter and angry when a few days later Democrats or the courts find a way to get through it and ratify the results.

They could definitely use that little stunt to help keep alive the notion that Biden won illegally, and Pence bravely tried to reverse it. But Democrats, and the evil deep state, and activist judges, made sure that Pence was slapped down and installed Biden anyways.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

31. Yes, could see them doing something for a momentary pause.

To gain attention that their crazy cause.

It would be interesting to know what Pence is thinking. Does he want to run in 2024? If yes, hard to know how to play it. If he tries to disrupt, it makes him look like a trump stoolie and loses normal people support. If he doesn't, he faces trump's wrath and could lose many potential crazy followers.

[Fiendish Thingy]

17. Worst case: President Pelosi. Nt

[SCantiGOP]

14. I can't believe how many people here don't understand this

Last edited Sat Dec 26, 2020, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Pence altering the submitted electoral votes would be no different than having a piece of legislation he doesn't endorse pass 55-45, and he instead announces that it has been defeated by 55-45.

[Mr.Bill]

19. And at this point neither would surprise me. n/t

[ecstatic]

36. I think what some people are asking is, who, specifically, would stop him if he tried

to pretend as if he had the power to stop the certification?

Who would grab the gavel and say, "No, Mr. Pence, you're mistaken. It doesn't work that way, sir..." Would we have to wait for the Supreme Court to step in?

[Cha]

20. Pence & the Fly are between a

rock & a hard place.

Who doesn't think he deserves that?

[ToxMarz]

21. Can he stomp his feet

And refuse to open the certificates?

[subterranean]

24. He could, and then someone else would have to do it.

A poster above said that the next person in line to count the votes would be Chuck Grassley.

[Roy Rolling]

25. Idiots

It’s an administrative function, like a clerk or cashier.

If you go to a bank, the cashier can’t dispense money to whomever they choose. The cashier just processes the money.

[BarbD]

26. You have got to be kidding. Little, meek, frightened Mikey Pence standing up to the world?

I'm thinking he would like to be hiding somewhere -- probably some rock.

Is this why he is running out of town asap?

[Voltaire2]

32. No but he can accept, in fact has to accept,

all submitted slates of certified electors. The 12th is expanded by the Electoral Count Act of 1887, and that expansion opens the door to shenanigans by dishonest agents.

At a minimum the t-nazis can gum the process with 50 or so 2 hour interruptions to settle disputes.