General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVoting machine company behind so many surprise wins this year raises some questions
Voting results in three states that saw surprising majorities by vulnerable incumbent Republican senatorsMaine, North Carolina and South Carolinawere almost all tabulated on ES&S machines.
Trump and his inept legal team have barely mentioned ES&S, focusing almost exclusively on Dominion Voting Systems.
snip---
DCReport placed numerous calls and emails to ES&S at its headquarters on John Galt Boulevard in Omaha. Only once was the phone answered by someone who would not put us through saying "they are not going to be able to talk to you.". DCReport was directed to ES&S's website. DCReport submitted the form repeatedly but got no reply.
https://www.rawstory.com/voting-machine/
The Biden DOJ may seriously benefit the people of the US if they do a thorough investigation of ES&S.
grumpyduck
(6,231 posts)would tend to make a naturally suspicious mind... suspicious.
NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)Here's a recent article.
Snip~
"Democrats proposed the SAFE Act, which would have required robust manual audits for all federal races this year and banned most of the touchscreen voting machines currently in use. It also would have banned internet connectivity to voting systems. But the GOP killed the SAFE Act."
snip~
"Republicans nonetheless have the audacity to complain after the election about lack of security and transparency, knowing full well that they are primarily responsible for these problems, that they did better (not worse) than polls predicted, and that they went out of their way to block manual recounts in the presidential elections of 2000 and 2016."
https://jennycohn1.medium.com/es-s-is-americas-largest-voting-machine-vendor-7ac10934a923
Grasswire2
(13,565 posts)The origins of ES&S are suspect. As are its record.
I, personally, came across some info in deep research about ES&S in the year 2000 that was both frightening and suspicious. Jenny Cohn has that info now.
CaptainTruth
(6,582 posts)moonscape
(4,673 posts)Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)None of these are surprising to me.
Friggin cheaters.
wnylib
(21,417 posts)jaxexpat
(6,813 posts)I read a surprising statistic today. Despite the shameless attraction and mating habits of fools, idiots and kin fol to each other in that old Kentucky home, the average IQ was NOT the US's lowest.
NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)of voting machines.
Scrutiny of the U.S. election system, spurred by Russias interference in the 2016 election, has put Election Systems & Software in the political spotlight."
Snip~ "NBC News examined publicly available online shipping records for ES&S for the past five years and found that many parts, including electronics and tablets, were made in China and the Philippines, raising concerns about technology theft or sabotage."
https://securityledger.com/2019/12/study-finds-chinese-hardware-powers-u-s-voting-machine/
BarackTheVote
(938 posts)ES&S machines dont produce a paper trail?
central scrutinizer
(11,639 posts)WTF?
MsLeopard
(1,265 posts)Would probably go over their heads too. But it really does align with their disgusting ideology.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,984 posts)central scrutinizer
(11,639 posts)By law, there would be no traffic controls, in either direction. A bridge or overpass or underpass would require socialist expenditures. Floor it!
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,984 posts)fmdaddio
(192 posts)Worked out for her too. ES&S machines and her way down in the polls. Her win was the big surprise of the night in my opinion.
SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)Then she ends up winning by a fairly large margin.
Botany
(70,476 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 30, 2020, 04:37 PM - Edit history (1)
Looking at the voting data
Manipulating the voting data
Leaving no "electronic fingerprints"
In some cases remote access to the machines too
No doubt that Trump got "help" from ES&S and other electronic voting machines but the
overwhelming # of votes Biden got overwhelmed the machines' "fudge factor."
Moscow Mitch knows that "they win dirty" with the machines and that is why he has blocked
any can of upgrade in voting security upgrades.
Brunner EVEREST Study
burrowowl
(17,636 posts)Botany
(70,476 posts)... or glitch. In 2016 Putin spent millions "looking into" the hardware and software of the
operating systems of both electronic voting machines and the central tabulators. And he
wasn't doing that "just to have a look around." In 2016 the exit polls had HRC winning
WI, MI, PA, N.C. and FL.
Exit polls used to agree w/the vote but from 1988 on and especially after "they" pushed through
HAVA (help america vote act in 2002) they stopped matching.
when we used these
the exit polls matched the vote.
whopis01
(3,498 posts)I realize it is just a fake ballot - but when would you ever have a "1.5 votes" option?
DFW
(54,325 posts)I'm convinced that a thorough forensic investigation of their machines would turn up massive cheating, and all favoring Republicans. Actually ESS never disguised their political preferences. It's just that few ever guessed how far they'd go to influence the elections, and even fewer ever made a serious effort to find out.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)moondust
(19,966 posts)All electronic vote tallies can be hacked through the internet
This is because all voting machines must accept electronic input files via a cartridge or memory card prepared on an Election Management (EMS) computer that is itself likely connected to the internet from time to time.
~
Moreover, results from the precincts are often transmitted into a central tabulator over a local area network, so that the chain-of-custody of the images is not provable, and images may be manipulated in transmission by network-based attacks.
Central tabulators, in turn, transmit results to online Election Night Reporting Systems, creating another opportunity for internet hacking of voting machine tallies.
~
All electronic vote tallies can be hacked through the internet, even if the voting machines themselves are not directly connected to it.
There may also be concern for "back doors" in the software/tabulators created by programmers at companies that support the GOP and their voter suppression tactics.
And by the way...LOOK OVER THERE AT DOMINION!!!! DOMINION!!! LOOK AT THEM AND THEIR VOTER FRAUD!!! DEMOCRATS CHEATING!!! IT'S THEM!!!!
questionseverything
(9,646 posts)No matter which company it is, no citizen can go into the machine and check the software
Hand counted paper ballots, counted in full public view with a tight chain of custody are the answer
RANDYWILDMAN
(2,667 posts)Anyone who watched all the black box stuff and diebold, nothing here is a surprise.
True Blue American
(17,982 posts)Diebold machines and Memory cards. We had 4 with 12 machines. They did force them to put a paper trail. Those twisted. We spent half the day straightening the paper. You could get into them with a tiny key.
zaj
(3,433 posts)... is not sufficient reason for the federal government to start an investigation.
That's exactly what Trump is trying to do, but with the politics reversed.
The left runs the same risks of anti-democratic populism.as the right, and we need to hold ourselves accountable to strong standards.
Zaj, you are correct, and I'm kind of disappointed that DU is allowing tripe like this to be featured on the front page.
Botany
(70,476 posts)BTW I have 16 + years doing election protection work and other DUers are professors,
teachers, engineers, scientists, mathematicians, election workers, and or are very
knowledgeable about elections and voting.
I like horses do you?
stopdiggin
(11,285 posts)conspiracy theory nonsense. The article has nothing in the way of direct evidence -- but excels at innuendo. "They wouldn't talk to us .. Waaah. Deeply suspicious!" Yeah, and they're not particularly interested in talking to that other nut job, Sidney Powell, either! Or Alex Jones, or Q-Anon.
Unfortunately, DU does do a lot of this. We wear our own tin foil. Sometimes stridently.
spooky3
(34,425 posts)Last edited Thu Dec 31, 2020, 04:18 PM - Edit history (1)
From predictions based on careful polling AND that previous investigations of some vote counting machinery and software HAVE found problems. Virginia is one of the states that replaced nearly all of its electronic voting machines that lacked a paper trail and had other problems.
Its not a conspiracy theory; its a legitimate issue that needs investigation.
See the link I posted below from The State newspaper in South Carolina in 2019.
zaj
(3,433 posts)We presume everyone innocent, including voting machine companies and Republicans. There is a rational, evidence based middle ground here are we need to hold each other accountable to occupying it.
spooky3
(34,425 posts)It is absolutely the responsibility of authorities at any level to investigate credible accusations of wrongdoing and to pursue justice if wrongdoing is found.
zaj
(3,433 posts)This is complete speculation. Journalism and citizens can work on this, because they have limits on their power (and thus the potential for abuse).
That's where this can and should live. Just like with Trump's post election conspiracy nonsense.
This might be a potentially more legitimate concern, but we can't ignore the guardrails on the power of the government. If we cross those lines a small amount, they public will rationalize the massive abuse by the GOP that will follow.
spooky3
(34,425 posts)in another post and ignore the fact I cited earlierthat states such as Virginia looked at the evidence others cited here, and replaced their very expensive electronic voting machines. So its pointless to continue this.
Have a happy new year!
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)... some voting bullshit is happening
intheflow
(28,451 posts)Here's former Rep Peter King (R) talking on election day 2004, when DU was a-buzz with fear for possible voting fraud by the Republicans using ES&S and other e-voting machines:
Here's an article from St. John's Law Review outlining ongoing problems with ES&S systems (among others): https://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1247&context=lawreview
This ain't new, they stole the Dominion voting machine fraud rant from us (with no evidence), but we have 16 years of reporting the ES&S machines are unsecure and subject to tampering.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,309 posts)Paper ballots are needed everywhere.
DU actblue link for Warnock, Ossoff, Stacey Abrams' Fair Fight:
https://secure.actblue.com/donate/dufor2020runoff
A few questions: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=14520874
and answers: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=14520972
badboy67
(460 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)keep senate but they couldn't trust him with details - like it was the ES&S machines - and the whole rw media went after dominion because they were used in states he needed.
if dedms win georgia and senate, the cons are going to drag those senate seats out for months with bullshit
this goes back to the national rw media/radio freakout in 2000 over 'hanging chads' - used to sell electronic voting - ES&S
biden admins going to have to do full bipartisan investigation in public where the cons can't decide where to look.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)really...
stopdiggin
(11,285 posts)You have to remember that many of our "luminaries" have expressed their admiration ...
Getting a street named isn't much of a stretch. Sadly.
housecat
(3,121 posts)Can we sue the company to get discovery?
Nictuku
(3,595 posts)subterranean
(3,427 posts)DFW
(54,325 posts)If they used ESS machines, they wouldnt be in such a panic.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)DFW
(54,325 posts)When was that purchase completed?
If it was a Republican administration that bought Dominion, it could have been for reasons of cost or overconfidence. But PA has had a Democratic governor for the last couple of years.
niyad
(113,205 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 30, 2020, 07:42 PM - Edit history (1)
2004 elections? Was it ESS?
OMGWTF
(3,949 posts)Diebold makes ATMs too and I wanted to make up stickers to put after their name on the ATM so it would read "Diebold is stealing your vote."
intheflow
(28,451 posts)C Moon
(12,212 posts)Mr. Sparkle
(2,930 posts)"headquarters on John Galt Boulevard in Omaha. Only once was the phone answered by someone who would not put us through saying "they are not going to be able to talk to you."."
stopdiggin
(11,285 posts)This is SOP -- and particularly during a media storm. Everything goes through the chief information officer (desk/office). And, no, they probably don't have time -- or want to make time -- for Internet Andy (or the Daily Beast). So -- getting a stiff arm from the information desk -- NOT suspicious. At all!
Mr. Sparkle
(2,930 posts)Companies that want more business answer the phone. Even if to knock back requests from journalists.
stopdiggin
(11,285 posts)Okay, now I'm laughing. But you have a good one! --- ---
Mr. Sparkle
(2,930 posts)Lokee11
(235 posts)The biggest reason why Captain Dipshit truly believes Joe cheated to win, is because they cheated!
FDT!
judesedit
(4,437 posts)OMGWTF
(3,949 posts)malaise
(268,844 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Ponietz
(2,955 posts)Blue Owl
(50,325 posts)MustLoveBeagles
(11,587 posts)spooky3
(34,425 posts)This is a legit newspaper:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_(newspaper)
Polls showed Harrison and Graham neck and neck.
intheflow
(28,451 posts)to chime in about this being a conspiracy theory in 3... 2...
bucolic_frolic
(43,111 posts)And I'm sure both sides have proprietary methods of GOTV that would disadvantageous if the other side learned them. So the status quo is a stalemate.
highnooner
(395 posts)This is walking into a trap set by those who rigged elections. If you start questioning these results, then you open the Pandora's box. We can start investigating it then.
AllaN01Bear
(18,101 posts)ecstatic
(32,673 posts)looking into this. Instead of blindly assuming polls are wrong, we should take a closer look at the situation.