Do the rest of us need to rush to the capitols in the event of an armed assault?

[Joe Nation]

I keep thinking that we could have mounted a counter to the events in DC but we preferred to sit home and watch what we thought was going to be an uneventful grievance-fest. Well it didn't turn out that way and now I am left wondering if we shouldn't organize a 50 state response to the MAGA mob if they dare show up at any State House of the Capitol. They can't overwhelm the security forces AND a large group of democracy defenders.

Something on the order of the umbrella movement in Hong Kong only using the umbrellas to identify ourselves as counter to the terrorists. The umbrellas also serve other purposes like shielding the crowd from rocks and bottles.

Any thoughts on people taking to the streets and mounting a rescue of our democracy?

[Phoenix61]

1. I'm thinking that's a really bad idea.

There’s no way for LEOs to know who is who.

[Joe Nation]

5. Hence the umbrellas

Besides, you may only get one chance to save your democracy.

[Iggo]

15. Nope.

[skypilot]

21. I'm thinking that...

...in a situation that you're suggesting one might want both hands free.

[meadowlander]

2. The US defense budget is 934 billion dollars a year.

I think they've got this without random civilians wandering into the middle.

[pwb]

3. The FBI has them all scared shitless so

maybe not. But yeah.

[sinkingfeeling]

4. No. Let the FBI and law enforcement handle things. If they fail,

we're in really, really deep sh*t.

[luv2fly]

6. Rock vs. umbrella

Rock wins

[Celerity]

16. French President Nicolas Sarkozy is to start using a 10,000 pounds bullet-proof umbrella

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371921/Sarkozys-bodyguards-10k-black-umbrella-changes-defensive-shield.html



https://www.parapactum.com/en/

ParaPactum, the protection device for eminent people.

In the form of an umbrella, but in fact a true weapon of protection. Approved and embraced by the French Presidential Protection Unit (Groupe de Sécurité de la Présidence de la République - GSPR), the ParaPactum has no equivalent elsewhere in the world. Multidirectional protection, instant opening and fully operational, it has been recognised as a protection device for eminent people.

[luv2fly]

26. Not your average umbrella

Reminds me of when the Vikings yell "shield wall" and raise their shields in unison.

Too damn much binge watching!

[Celerity]

27. ...

[SoFlaBro]

46. How much they want for that JAWN?

n/t

[EarthFirst]

55. 20K

I had to look.

[cwydro]

63. This must be an old article.

He’s not the president of France, as far as I know.

[Celerity]

66. yes, but the link to the firm is current

[Hotler]

39. Speaking of rock throwing

The Palestinian's know how to chuck a rock.

[ecstatic]

7. We were told to stay home, but a friend of mine said she'd volunteer to work security for VP elect

Harris.

[Joe Nation]

8. My thoughts are, can we even trust the security people anymore?

Suppose they step aside and we lose our country for lack of courage. We just witnessed some doing exactly that.

[Iggo]

12. Nope.

[mr_lebowski]

19. IOW what if they basically stand down, or worse, turn around and join in?

And then it really turns into 'The Storm' and QAnon was (sorta) right?

That would be bad. Really really bad.

[sarisataka]

9. Much like running into burning buildings

To help fire fighters is a supremely bad idea...

[BigmanPigman]

10. If they weren't dangerous I would already be there defending Joe's win.

I had already decided I would go to DC if we had to make sure he got his votes counted. However, the terrorists are armed and very dangerous and this is a job for people with experience. If there was going to be something like the Womens March, which was peaceful in every city, year in, year out, I would go but this is the opposite of a peaceful demonstration.

[Iggo]

11. Nope.

[Irish_Dem]

13. Very bad idea for so many reasons I cannot list them all.

But the most important one is that you could get killed or seriously injured.
Or jailed for a long time. Also these are also covid super spreader events.

Law Enforcement and security experts must handle this.
They don't need people getting in the way.

Stay safe.

[Squinch]

14. Worst idea ever.

[NoRoadUntravelled]

17. The rescue of Democracy won't happen by fighting in the streets.

Just ask all the idiots that will be doing prison time for their attempted coup.
Democracy will be rescued by bringing them to justice.
And they will be brought to justice including any members of Congress that took part.

Let Law Enforcement and Federalized troops deal with the insurrectionists. It will make their job easier if everyone else stays away.

Corporate America has begun to weigh in. They're stopping campaign funding of Republicans. Things will turn around very soon.

Then we can resume the business of cleaning up the GOP Elephant shit that's been piling up ever since this clown show started 4 years ago.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

18. Nope.

It might be personally satisfying, I suppose, but it would surely cause a bigger hassle for law enforcement to sort out.

[cwydro]

31. Someone posted here the other day, "kill them all, let god sort them out."

Lol, someone also posted that they had never seen calls for violence on DU.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

34. Yeah, I know.

I've even posted some violent ideas toward some right-wingers in the past, forgetting to add the "sarcasm" smilie. They were usually over-the-top and "creative" enough that I figured it wasn't needed, but I should be careful too.

I've even made obvious jokes in-person to others, with a smile on my face and a chuckle, and some of those people later referred to them as if I was serious. (I think several of them were being disingenuous about it later.) Need to be careful with some folks.

Edit: Some of those posts that I've seen have been more violent than I'd ever support, and some indeed seemed serious.

[Wednesdays]

20. Unrecced and trashed. nt

[StarfishSaver]

22. Hell, no

Stay away.

[mr_lebowski]

23. These idiots want to fight US more than the Cops, more than the Government ...

They are PRAYING that people they can call 'BLM/Antifa' shows up and tries to stop them.

It will give them a perfect 'both sides are involved' story that they would love to have.

Which is why we should not.

[Crunchy Frog]

24. No.

[Downtown Hound]

25. At the moment, bad idea

We would just be in the way, and divert attention and resources from authorities when they're going to have their hands full.

Now there may come a day when we might have to step up, but we're not there yet. In the meantime, let the fascists show the world what they're really about.

[Fiendish Thingy]

28. Are you nuts?

Asking for 80 million friends.

[Ferrets are Cool]

29. Decorum and DU rules prevent me from typing my true response to this post

[Joe Nation]

30. I just hope not all Americans feel as you do. Democracy is an idea that needs to be fought for.

You don't get to keep your democracy by sitting at your computers all day. Good luck folks.

[cwydro]

35. Why are you answering your own post?

[Joe Nation]

41. I'm a little disgusted by my fellow Democrats and trying not to overreact

The fact that these crazy fanatics on the Right are willing to put their lives on the line for a big lie and the people here would rather just sit back and espouse rhetoric without doing a damn thing is kind of disheartening. We can't let them win through our own inactions. That is all I am saying. What a blanket response I got. Just Wow!

[Crunchy Frog]

65. And do you also go running into operating rooms to assist with medical crises? n/t

[meadowlander]

47. I reject your assumption that the only way to "fight" for democracy

is to get in a brawl with the kinds of swamp creatures that show up to Trump rallies.

We have trained, paid law enforcement and security personnel making a coordinated effort to defend the capital. Let them do their jobs. I'm sure their leadership would be telling you the same thing.

[MineralMan]

32. No. Not on your life.

Let the authorities deal with the insurrectionists.

We would just make things worse.

Who are you, anyway? I don't recognize your screen name at all. Where have you been all this time?

[Joe Nation]

42. I have been here for quite a while.

But the response to this post is just jaw dropping. I don't think it is hyperbole to say that we are at a precipice in this country. There are far more of us than there are of them. We need to stand up. I see nobody doing that here. I find it shocking that people aren't willing to defend their democracy. How many times in history have Americans stood up and said "enough!" It seems like all I am hearing here is, "Let somebody else handle it".

[MineralMan]

43. Perhaps you have. However, you have not contributed enough

to DU for us to know who you are and where you stand. Hence my question.

We are not the ones who must physically defend our nation from thugs and terrorists. That's why we have law enforcement and military personnel. If you have been reading posts here, you will know that armed National Guard soldiers and a host of law enforcement agencies are already planning their response to potential violent actors.

They are more than well equipped and manned to handle this threat. Beyond that, they will be unable to tell who is a bad actor and who is on their side if random people show up to "defend the nation." Those forces will be mostly uniformed and readily identifiable. The general public will not. All people not in an official uniform and part of the defenders will be seen as terrorists if things get ugly.

I have no idea what your background might be in such situations, so I have no idea whether your presence would be of any use or not. I doubt it very much, unless you serve in an organization that will be officially defending the US Capitol or State Capitols and surrounding areas. I also doubt very much that you are someone who could organize and lead such a defense.

Indeed, your language is almost identical to the language used by those who threaten our system of government. You are a civilian. You would look exactly like the terrorists. How would that be of any help at all in the situation?

You have not thought this out before writing. We recognize that, and are explaining why your idea is an exceptionally bad one. You should listen to us.

You may not like what I am saying. I don't care. You should listen to it, though.

STAY AT HOME! DON'T BECOME PART OF THE PROBLEM!

[Joe Nation]

44. I more than willing to give my life in defense of democracy if necessary for my children and for

their children. I am not rallying people to fight but to stand up, be seen, be heard, be counted.

To your points:

The authorities have had no problem keeping protesters and counter protest apart in past demonstrations. Why would this be any different? A show of numbers would be sufficient to quell any potential violence. Make it a party. Call it vigilance.

“While the people retain their virtue, and vigilance, no administration, by any extreme of wickedness or folly, can very seriously injure the government, in the short space of four years.” ― Abraham Lincoln

If you truly knew anything about these defense forces or have learned anything over the past week, they have been drawn from a smaller and smaller portion of our society. They aren't even sure which side many of these defense folks will come down on if a fight breaks out. Look how many police, firemen, active military personnel, and Capitol police aided in this riot. We don't even know the numbers yet. And you trust them to defend the rest of us?

You have no idea what I thought about before writing this post. You have no idea what experiences I bring to bear. You simply judge my beliefs as "bad". What gives you that authority? I really find it condescending and arrogant.

You might disagree with my opinions but your judgments are wholly unwelcome.

YOU STAY AT HOME. WE WILL FIGHT FOR OUR DEMOCRACY WITHOUT YOU.

[MineralMan]

45. Whatever. I'm done.

[cwydro]

53. You actually repeated some of Mineral Man's exact points.

No, we don’t know anything about you at all. Exactly as you say.

[Joe Nation]

57. Then why assume that I didn't bother to think before I posted?

Who is ""we"? Am I missing out on some cadre of DU elites here? I never would have imagined.

[cwydro]

59. Mineral Man attempted to point out, politely, that your OP was a bad idea.

He explained his reasons. You’ll have to take it up with him.

He made sense to me.

[cwydro]

52. Some of us believe in the rule of law.

Do you think every single voter should take up arms and head to the streets?

Do I have to point out how off the wall that sounds?

[cwydro]

60. You're calling me a right wing lunatic when you espouse violence?

Ok then.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

33. Nope.

Not in the mood for a civil war right now. National Guard should hopefully hold their own.

[Beringia]

36. No way, those guys just would love to shoot people

[David__77]

37. There will almost certainly not be truly mass fascist mobilizations at this time.

Smaller groups engaged in attacks, possibly. Many of them are in defensive mode now.

[shrike3]

38. NO! Stay home!

[Liberal In Texas]

40. I think this is what Trump wanted, was his maga-idiots clashing with "antifa"

causing major civil unrest. That way he would be justified in declaring martial law. And in his twisted brain justification for staying in power instead of Biden.

[msfiddlestix]

48. Terribly bad idea. for a lot of reasons

but let's just think about the fact that these people need to be completely identified as the terrorists to a person and not have a mass of opponents mixed in and confuse the public particularly how the right is already trying to make false claims as to who these people are.

If no other reason that one is mightily important strategically, and also it would feed right into their strategy by responding like wise.

[Caliman73]

49. Not a good idea.

It appears to be thinking along the line of the "good guy with a gun" scenario. If there are planned, violent attacks on the capitols of states and the Federal Capitol, there will be mass confusion. I understand what you are saying and it would be patriotic and appealing to some to oppose the insurrectionists, but in the maelstrom, there would likely be confusion and a great chance to be killed or injured by the military and police forces that will be arranged to provide protection. Like I said, the "good guy with a gun" at the mall shooting is just as likely to be killed by responding security and police for trying to be a hero and stop the shooter because, how to the police/security know you are not just another shooter there to harm people? How can they tell who is shooting at who during the chaos.

If these riots are not quelled and the insurrectionists put down and jailed, if there is any modest success in these actions, you may well get your chance to fight another day, but as far as citizens fighting citizens in the capitols on Inauguration Day, that is not a good idea.

[RichardRay]

50. Im thinking 20,000 National Guardsmen should cover it.

And, if the don’t, I wouldn’t card to be in the middle.

[displacedtexan]

51. The best weapon the feds have is the cell phone data from the MAGAts' phones.

They don't need us to get in the way. The FBI has assigned agents in every state & territory to ID and charge everyone who breached the barriers. Even the ones who just stood around bellowing. Add to that all of the footage filmed and posted by the insurrectionists.
The FB isn't I-ing all by itself right now.

[JHB]

54. That's not what we thought on the 6th. We knew they were ready to make trouble...

...because they spent all month telling us that.

Our people stayed away so that it would be a nice, clear MAGAts vs cops, and to keep counter protesters from being shot by armed noputjobs.

[Hekate]

56. We discussed this pretty extensively here & NO ONE thought the insurrection would be peaceful...

No one. I don’t know where you get this from.

WE ALL KNEW it was going to be violent. The consensus was that anybody not affiliated with that mob was asking for a vicious beating if not worse if they chose to go, and would serve as a poster child for both-siders.

Therefore, the consensus, which I shared, was that anyone with brains should STAY AWAY.

Umbrellas? Oh good gods.

[cwydro]

62. I liked the umbrella thing too!

But what if it rained?

[nolabear]

61. HELL no. Kyle. Rittenhouse.

We believe in our form of government. That is what they do not believe in. Not letting them kill us is not surrendering.

[LAS14]

64. Makes me think of the kind of thing we were warned the Russians were trying to foment. Not...

.. accusing you. Just saying...