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Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:32 PM

I've posted about my Trump loving sister before. It's been quite some time since we've

had any conversations other than just a few brief words to check on each other during the pandemic. She stopped by the house and I donned a mask to meet her outside. We had our social distancing brief conversation.

Today she said she's thinking about leaving the country and then ranted about how she's not afraid of socialism but she knows we're going to become a Communist country with all the lawlessness.
I asked her if she was referring to the siege on the Capitol Building and the Republicans trying to overturn a free and fair election.

She went ballistic and shouted, "Trump supporters are good people! They would never do such a thing. It was Antifa and BLM. They're taking over our country with their lawlessness and turning us Communist."

By now I've had enough discussions with various Trump supporters since before the 2016 election and plenty of conversations with her to know that nothing I say, no logic I use, no evidence I provide will change her mind.
I turned around and walked away. As I walked into the house I could hear her shouting at the top of her lungs, "That's the problem with this country. No one will listen."

Damn, I'm tired.


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Reply I've posted about my Trump loving sister before. It's been quite some time since we've (Original post)
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 OP
cilla4progress Jan 2021 #1
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #4
jmbar2 Jan 2021 #2
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #13
jmbar2 Jan 2021 #29
yonder Jan 2021 #41
Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #50
jmbar2 Jan 2021 #52
Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #56
Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #59
jmbar2 Jan 2021 #61
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #57
dawg day Jan 2021 #3
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #14
SharonAnn Jan 2021 #44
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #53
SWBTATTReg Jan 2021 #5
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #15
Blue_true Jan 2021 #54
Atticus Jan 2021 #6
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #16
JHB Jan 2021 #7
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #17
Mary Mac Jan 2021 #47
Mariana Jan 2021 #64
42bambi Jan 2021 #8
Timewas Jan 2021 #11
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #18
SheltieLover Jan 2021 #9
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #22
MustLoveBeagles Jan 2021 #10
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #24
MustLoveBeagles Jan 2021 #27
chia Jan 2021 #12
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #25
chia Jan 2021 #38
Cha Jan 2021 #19
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #26
Cha Jan 2021 #30
gratuitous Jan 2021 #20
SCantiGOP Jan 2021 #49
Tech Jan 2021 #21
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #28
Mr.Bill Jan 2021 #23
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #32
Lucinda Jan 2021 #37
coti Jan 2021 #58
Rustyeye77 Jan 2021 #31
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #33
Rustyeye77 Jan 2021 #36
Lucinda Jan 2021 #34
trueblue2007 Jan 2021 #35
TNNurse Jan 2021 #39
iluvtennis Jan 2021 #40
birdographer Jan 2021 #42
NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #65
Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #43
Aussie105 Jan 2021 #45
MyOwnPeace Jan 2021 #46
Joinfortmill Jan 2021 #48
Nitram Jan 2021 #51
keithbvadu2 Jan 2021 #55
dreamland Jan 2021 #60
TigressDem Jan 2021 #62
Permanut Jan 2021 #63

Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:33 PM

1. FFS

I had the same experience early on in drumpf's admin in 2016. It was psychotic. Since then, I do not engage.

You did good - really good - to just walk away.

Breathe! We are with you!

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:37 PM

4. Thank you for your kind words.

This has been really tough.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:35 PM

2. I wish I could ask her

Which country most embodies the type of government and society you wish to live in? What are your top choices?

I'm willing to bet that they will lean socialist.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:31 PM

13. She loved her experience of walking the Camino de Santiago and hearing about

what it was like to live in countries that were more socialist leaning. But she is convinced BLM and Antifa are taking over the country and that we will become a Communist state.
She doesn't seem to understand the difference between peaceful demonstrations and murderous insurrection to overturn the certified results of a free and fair election.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:53 PM

29. If you ask questions for which there are no established talking points, sometimes you open a door

If you ask about "what would be the ideal country for you to live in if you had to leave the US", there are no established rightwing talking points to fall back on.

Then you can ask them to describe what makes that country attractive, what an ideal living situation would be to them, etc. I can almost guarantee that they will drive that truck right into socialism.

Don't point it out real fast to them. Encourage them to really dig into it. Share your ideal living situation without getting ideological - dreaming of the perfect getaway. The longer you can extend that kind of mind wandering, the better. Then leave it without making any points.

I've had this conversation often with far right wingers and I've had some tell me that they really enjoyed talking this way - found it unusual.

Another conversation I've found interesting is talking about the challenges of Reconstruction for freed slaves.

"Geez. Imagine what it was like to be a slave on a plantation, with no education, no assets and a family to feed. Suddenly one day, they tell you that you are "free". What would you do? Where would you go? How could you get started? Get them to imagine with you, with no ideological tones. Just brainstorming.

Ask them how they would start over with absolutely nothing, and no help. Might drive them to Wikipedia to learn more about it.



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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #29)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:00 PM

41. +1.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #29)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:22 PM

50. Yes, you can let them drive their own arguments into internal contradictions.


Oh, you want a strong man. How about Turkmenistan?

Oh, you want a Western culture nation with a strong man. How about Hungary?

Oh, you want Western, strong man, English Speaking. Hmm, getting a bit limited. What do you suggest?

Oh, you are out of countries. Well, how about a boat? Live in the middle of the ocean.

Ocean not for you? Antarctica?

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #50)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:34 PM

52. Well sorta....

Ya gotta keep the conversation flowing, without any hint of sarcasm, which will shut the exploration down.

But I like the idea of Hungary. Western country, with a strongman leader? Dig down into that. Later, they will probably look it up online and discover some of the realities of living in a corrupt strongman culture.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #52)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:54 PM

56. Yes, idea inspired by your line of thinking. Thanks. . . . nt

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #52)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 12:01 AM

59. Thing is they don't want to live anywhere else or they'd be there already.


Unless they are rich and globetrotting.

Keep setting constraints from the things they like.

No public healthcare? That rules a lot of countries out.

No abortions? Okay even Ireland and Argentina are ruling themselves out.

No taxes? Hmm, Saudi Arabia, if you can get citizenship.

Then tell them "You survived Obama, didn't you?" ... "Well, yeah" ... "You can survive Biden."

Ask them if they did well during Obama, bought a house, got better jobs, new pickup trucks, etc. Probably they'll say yes, we worked hard. Tell them, work hard and you'll do just as well under Biden.

Especially since there's no other country you can do better in.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #59)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 02:39 AM

61. That's exactly the thinking you want to provoke

Suddenly, they realize that it's not so black and white. Every option has tradeoffs. There is no viable option that operates the way they think America should run.

That opens the door for a lot deeper dialogue that goes beyond the slogans they have learned. It's better to dialogue with them than to write them off as hopeless.

Good luck.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #29)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:56 PM

57. Excellent suggestions.

Thank you.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:35 PM

3. What country does she hope to move to?

Let's see... can't be socialist.
Must love Trump.

Hmm... and it's not like anyone can move anywhere these days.

I wonder if she's going to watch to see all the arrests and if she'll ever wonder why the "BLM rioters" are all middle-aged white men wearing Trump hats.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:32 PM

14. She is so blinded by her religious beliefs and loyalty to Trump.

It's so damn sad.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:12 PM

44. I have a sister like that. Are you my brother?

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Response to SharonAnn (Reply #44)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:45 PM

53. No doubt there are a lot of siblings going through this same thing. nt

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:37 PM

5. I laughed (not at you of course) but at her unrealistic world view...who in the world does she think

would even take her? Ha ha heh...I think you're smart to not deal w/ her. Not worth it. Not worth the energy listening to such drivel.

Best wishes to you and yours.

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:34 PM

15. Thank you. I keep hoping she'll figure it out at some point but it's a little late in the game

at this point.

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:50 PM

54. You know what.

If you asked them to name a country that they would go to, they would likely say New Zealand, or maybe Australia. They don’t have a clue.

I wish that we could exchange each one of those fools for a non-fascist person that is literally dying to move here. We would certainly be better off.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:40 PM

6. You have my sympathy. nt

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Response to Atticus (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:34 PM

16. Thanks, Atticus.

I'm sure glad I found DU.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:41 PM

7. What country is she planning on going to?

If she thinks a Biden administration will turn the country "Communist", she should know that by that standard all the other English-speaking countries are "Communist."

Is she going to go to a non-English-speaking country? Again, which one, because by her standard most of them are "Communist."

Or maybe ask her about the dragons in that fantasy world of hers. Are they cool?

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Response to JHB (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:38 PM

17. It's her religion that got the upper hand, I think.

Her church preaches that Trump's been sent by God to save the world and she would never dare question that.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Reply #17)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:17 PM

47. What Bible is that in?

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Response to Mary Mac (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:04 PM

64. It's not in the Bible

but thousands of Christian churches all over the country are preaching it.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:42 PM

8. I guess she didn't see all the MAGA hats, Trump flags, confederate flags & don't

tread on me flags. Sorry about you sister - brainwashed people don't know they're brainwashed; similar to stupid people, they just don't know.

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Response to 42bambi (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:52 PM

11. It is a religion

Or a cult , same difference. If you could talk to them and point that out they will just come back with "fake news",they use the same as religious people, "God works in mysterious ways" and that is the end of the discussion.If they were willing to talk sense they would already have decided they were wrong

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Response to 42bambi (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:39 PM

18. That's true. Logic of that sort is lost on her. nt

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:42 PM

9. Had a tRumper tell me

Dejectedly, "And the swamp still won't listen."

They are so delusional, must be something they are used to.

I told this one, "As I have repeatedly stated to you, we cannot talk politics. I'm speaking verifiable facts & you are talking nonsensense." Bovine stare.

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Response to SheltieLover (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:43 PM

22. Somehow facts don't come into play here at all.

It's mind boggling.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 08:45 PM

10. My sympathies

There's no reasoning with people like that. You were wise to walk away.

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Response to MustLoveBeagles (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:44 PM

24. Thank you.

I made the right choice but it's still so sad.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Reply #24)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:48 PM

27. ...

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:06 PM

12. Unfortunately I'm in a similar boat with my family, with no hope that anything will change. :/

You have my sympathies.

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Response to chia (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:45 PM

25. Thank you.

It's a rocky road, isn't it?

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:27 PM

38. Yes, it really is.

And I'm tired too - so I find myself withdrawing more and more.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:39 PM

19. Poor Thing!!

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Response to Cha (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:48 PM

26. Thank you, Chia.

One of the hardest lessons for me in all this was to realize that no matter how much I love and care about a person, their mind is their own and not mine to change.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Reply #26)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:55 PM

30. Yeah, that's a good lesson

to learn. All of my family are Dems.. but I had a friend of 27 years who turned out to be in the trump cult & I want nothing to do with him anymore. That's on him.

If he ever wants to wake up and Repudiate that shit & apologize.
then I will listen. what are the odds!

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:40 PM

20. We're going to go Communist, huh?

When? Give me an over/under date, Sis. By March 1? June 1? Name the date, I'll write it down, and you initial it. Very good. Now, how much do you want to lose on that proposition? Ten bucks, or you want to make it a bet fit for grown ups, say a C-note? I've seen where your mouth is, I want to see some money.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:21 PM

49. Biden announced it today

He plans to seize all the means of production. All the industry, banks, farms, retail shops, everything. All private assets will be taken, and of course only Party officials will hold political power.
You must have missed that on the news with everything else going on.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:40 PM

21. I think half the country will need to be de programmed. I am so sorry.

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Response to Tech (Reply #21)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:52 PM

28. I don't know how that can happen but I also don't see the occupant's influence fading unless

something changes.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:44 PM

23. There was a meme here earlier that you should recite to her:

So, let me get this straight, The left disguised themselves as the right so they could storm that Capitol to overturn an election they just won.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #23)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:55 PM

32. Exactly.

It's just all too crazy.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #23)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:04 PM

37. +1 - Also another option:

Point out they posted all about their participation on their own - obviously Trump - supporting media accounts. And it was often them on videotape...

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #23)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:58 PM

58. And they sat through speeches by Donald Trump, his sons, Ted Cruz and more

immediately before, where they were, coincidentally, instructed to go get wild at the Capitol.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:55 PM

31. My suggestion

 

Go visit her.
Tell her “we mean to much to each other.
Let’s agree not to discuss politics”

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Response to Rustyeye77 (Reply #31)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 09:58 PM

33. It's a very good suggestion.

In fact, that's how things have gone for the last 4 years. Today when she came over she started in and I had to walk away from the rant. I just don't have the energy for it any longer. I cannot listen to someone defending the liar in the WH and blaming others for what he and his supporters and enablers have done.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Reply #33)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:04 PM

36. Let her rant...don't respond

 

Say “ let’s work this out...how about lunch”

Obviously she’s looking for a fight...don’t give her one.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:03 PM

34. ❤️✿❧🌿❧✿❤️

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:03 PM

35. your sister IS AS DUMB as my sister. my family makes me crazy

i am not talking to my 2 eldest nephews who are in their 3arly 4o's. my youngest nephew is like me, a trump hater. my trump loving niece are barely speaking. my great niece called TRUMP A MONSTER, SO THE YOUNGER branch of the family may be okay

my bro in law is a huge idiot. i can't stand him

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:49 PM

39. I am so very sorry. My sister and I are in complete agreement.

I do have a couple of cousins with whom I grew up, that I am just not talking to. Mostly because I do not want to know.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:53 PM

40. Wow, I know how you feel. I have a trumpian brother.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:03 PM

42. I've read a lot about these people

because I am so interested in the psychology of it. The overwhelming advice is to not engage. You can't change their minds and it just angers them. You might get her back some day when he is gone and hopefully in prison and absent from the canvas of daily life. The thinking is that removing the source of the idolatry is one route to reducing the delusions. But for now, as painful as it is, let it go.

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Response to birdographer (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 08:46 PM

65. Wise words.

Thank you.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:05 PM

43. That's the SOLUTION! No one will listen to them.


Isolate them.

Let them have fewer and fewer people to talk to, as the sane people abandon them and their social media one by one.

Let them live in the fact-void alternative universe and be constantly surprised and disappointed by events and ultimately bewildered until they come crawling and ask "How does this world work? Nothing I do works anymore." Then you can gently start explaining things.

But basically they have to say Biden is President because he won a fair election and the Steal was a lie.

At some point.

Or look like they might say it.

Because none of the lies they've been fed and regurgitate work anymore.

When they get to the point that even their alternative reality fails them, they're primed to leave the cult.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:14 PM

45. Feeling anger and frustration

to the point of irrational explosions is normal when your carefully constructed - yet internally contradictory - value system is being challenged by current facts or words.

It just adds denying those facts and words to the emotional burden of sorting the loose wires inside their heads, so don't even bother.

Just smile, and quietly say 'Sure Karen, whatever! Nice day today! Did you know peanuts grow underground but almonds grow on trees? Both are nuts, go figure!'
(Do not make eye contact. Do not engage the mad person.)

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:16 PM

46. HELP HER MOVE!!!!!!

From the sounds of what she's looking for - it might be a really neat place to visit once in a while - and there will be no arguments about where she is!
The worse that can happen is she'll tell you how bad she feels for you still living behind the Commie Curtain!

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:19 PM

48. Very sad.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:26 PM

51. Significant numbers of Americans are deluded and distracted. I'm hoping if enough of them are tried

and convicted, they may start to see the light.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:51 PM

55. Leaving the country? - Maybe going to Alaska?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214494575

Russian bots pretending to be Americans leaving America due to Biden

Leaving America to go to Alaska?

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 02:23 AM

60. I hope she does move, encourage it

She will get woke by being in another country. She may learn what real socialism is or even come to realize what our system of government provides.

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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 03:13 AM

62. My son has the same backwards world thinking.

He says "The DEMs don't pay attention to 'BOTH SIDES' and they can't 'FAKE' X, Y or Z" I look at the crap he puts up (barely it makes me sick to hear it) and I can see right away how many ways it can be faked.

He rails on and I just walk away and he's like, "SEE YOU WON'T LISTEN"

He's right. Sane people shut off the crazy and walk away.

WHEN YOU KEEP LISTENING TO THAT CRAP you become delusional. How many million people have been infected with this insanity?




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Response to NoRoadUntravelled (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2021, 07:48 PM

63. She's in a dangerous cult..

I hope she gets out of it someday.

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