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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnother thing that makes black people just wanna holler and throw up our hands
What's wrong with this picture?
Link to tweet
Stinky The Clown
(67,697 posts)edhopper
(33,208 posts)I see four black people in the background supporting the brave white protesters.
Phentex
(16,330 posts)...
Ferrets are Cool
(21,063 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Or are you being sarcastic?
Ferrets are Cool
(21,063 posts)One picture does not a story tell.
Please educate me.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Turin_C3PO
(13,650 posts)Yet whats the color of the majority of faces in the picture?
Ferrets are Cool
(21,063 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Imagine if this were a story about a Woman's March and the accompanying photo featured a crowd of men.
The fact that you don't see the problem is one of the reasons this is a problem.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,063 posts)One sees what they want to see. I see a diverse group of well intentioned people. What I DON'T see is the entire crowd, so I have NO idea as to the racial composition of this particular march. Even if I could see the entire crowd, unless I knew the demographic of the area, I would not jump to any conclusions.
Facts, man, facts.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)It's one thing not to get it initially. It's another to just continue to ignore what you're being told and insist that we're just "jumping to conclusions."
This has nothing to do with the makeup of the entire crowd. This is about a newsroom selecting a photo featuring nothing but white people to depict a black movement. Your inability or unwillingness to understand why this is a problem and why it's insulting to the movement and to black people - and not an isolated incident, but a pattern that occurs ALL the time - and your insistence on treating it as if it is WE who are overreacting, is really unfortunate.
Facts. Just facts.
Vivienne235729
(3,373 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)are empathetic and care and therefore participate? Is involvement worse than no involvement?
LakeArenal
(28,729 posts)Then when we ask what there is objectionable to the pic we get:
See, you are the problem just because you ask. We want to holler at you and throw up our hands.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)for Black Lives Matter. Yes, it is a BIG problem. Not the actual event, this photo. Photography is an art form because it involves capturing, editing, and then framing slices or reality to make a statement. This photo statement is all wrong, and in my mind cringe worthy, given that its use is to illustrate the entire Black Lives Matter movement.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,041 posts)intheflow
(28,407 posts)100%. Absofuckinglutely!
Turin_C3PO
(13,650 posts)of photos from BLM protests that they could have chosen that show more actual black people.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)There are MANY photos that are of predominantly black people. This is a photo that is cery representative of our population. Some people say white people need to be more involved on the front lines, some say white people need to take a step back. It is always a different set of rules and expectations depending on who is talking.
Myself I show up, support, and let others do the talking. But I dont begrudge other white people that are vocal and taking a more up front place.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)Yes absolutely they should have used a different picture for this article.
LeftInTX
(24,560 posts)MSN is a news aggregate like Raw Story. MSN has two other articles from The Guardian and AFP.
When a random person posts a screenshot in twitter, it sends me hunting. I was wondering if maybe the image was screenshot from a slide show compilation, but it was from a single article reposted by MSN which was obtained from the Washington Examiner.
It is not an appropriate pic to represent a movement.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15029757
kcr
(15,300 posts)It wasn't a coincidence.
malaise
(267,828 posts)That is all
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)bluestarone
(16,722 posts)White people SUPPORTING Black Lives Matter? I see this as a GOOD THING! Happy they are there!
Turin_C3PO
(13,650 posts)that they could have easily chosen a more representative picture.
edhopper
(33,208 posts)it's about BLM getting a Nobel nomination'
And these are the people who started it. not some white protesters.
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bluestarone
(16,722 posts)I never thought of this i guess TY!!
handmade34
(22,755 posts)(maybe unfortunately) the movement was nominated
CTyankee
(63,771 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,147 posts)for the Nobel Peace Price, the visual should depict that fact.
bluestarone
(16,722 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)It's a story about Black Lives Matter.
Every story about black people doesn't need to find a way to make white people the focus. It's not like white people don't get enough attention or credit in the media for all manner of things.
This is another example of the tendency of many in the mainstream to not take black people seriously unless and until validated by white people. This story is not about white people supporting Black Lives Matter. It's a story about Black Lives Matter, a movement by and about black people. There are plenty of photos of Black Lives Matters activities featuring black people. This did not need to be illustrated with photos of white people in Black Lives Matters t-shirts.
It's insulting and further evidence of how we're marginalized in and not taken seriously in the media and why we need to have more diversity in newsrooms so that they aren't dominated by people who don't see us.
bluestarone
(16,722 posts)And FULLY AGREE!!! Just a early morning not thinking here!
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts):fistbump"
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... tried it and it was insulting decades ago and it still is a trope.
This picture by itself is OK but not with the history behind the "savior white person" that the right likes to push and the woke left likes to ignore isn't helpful.
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)stake in it...and it will take all of us White and Black working our asses off to stop the police shootings, fix the unfair justice system and end systemic racism that still exists in this country...this OP makes me sad.
And I completely disagree with it. I didn't see anything wrong with the picture. I have attended BLM protests as a White person. I would also add, we need as much support as we can get in order to enact the change that is needed so desperately.
And lastly, I would remind everyone that women of all colors have and still face discrimination in our society-both in terms of harassment and economics. seeking Justice for all and an end to racial animus is the duty of every American .
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... issues to be able to communicate to each other effectively.
The right has used the "savior white" as a patronizing response to outgroups setting boundaries forever.
It's their butt hurt way of being center to an issue that involves someone else, the atypical "we suffer too" response to conflate or minimize the focus on an outgroup request.
It's VERY VERY subtle and pushed by those who aren't aware or traffic in racism from the right or common ingroups.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)a "black movement"?
Seriously?
Sort of like how white people, who had no problem calling folk with even one drop of African blood "black" suddenly deciding in 2007 that a man with an African father "isn't REALLY black. He's MULTI RACIAL What about his white mother?!"
This is a perfect example of the propensity for some to always feel that white people need to be centered or at least share attention and credit for pretty much everything that happens in this country, even when it's not about them.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,147 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,147 posts)handmade34
(22,755 posts)Black Lives Matter is a movement for ALL people, and all people should and seemingly are involved.... I would hate to think white people would opt out just because of the color of their skin... and I sincerely appreciate all men who are involved in the womens' movements
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)This isn't a story about the diversity of Black Lives Matter and there certainly is no effort to make "white people opt out just because of the color of their skin."
This is about black people being made invisible in the media - even when the media is covering our own movements and causes, the media feels the need to center it all on white people.
And while you appreciate the men who are involved in women's movements, I doubt you'd think it made sense to illustrate a story about the Women's March with a picture of a bunch of men.
We are tired of everything constantly being centered around white people. Black people speak up? Wow - you shouldn't say that because you're making white people uncomfortable. Black people protests - No! You're doing it wrong because you might turn off white people. And now, a movement founded by, focused on, and comprised mostly of black people gets a singular honor - Cool! Let's talk about the white people who are involved in it. Aren't they great?!
handmade34
(22,755 posts)that Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza and Opal Tometi should be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and any monies should go to THEM should they win... not the movement... the movement gets time person of the year or such...
I would hope that anyone involved in the movement would give accolades to the women and understand the roots of the movement and the importance...
my response is to the fact that the movement has been nominated and while I suppose there is a sense that white people are trying to take it over... from where I stand I really don't think that is the big picture... example: in my mostly white state of Vermont, there are many, many more BLM signs out in front of houses that for sale signs or trump signs... easy for them to say huh? But... from all of my interactions, people are sincere, they care, no matter the color of their skin or ethnicity
I say the picture most likely portrays some realities.... the problem is that the wrong person/movement was nominated
and yes, I would be ecstatic if the women's movement had LOTS of men that finally are getting their heads on straight because they are at the root of our problems (just as white people are at the root of problems for people of color)
my 2 cents... but I certainly get what you are saying and hopefully am empathetic enough to understand what you are feeling
edhopper
(33,208 posts)because the founders were not mostly white protesters, it was these women.
Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)Powerful.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,147 posts)led by Black women to dismantle systemic violence against Black people in the carceral state. In an article talking about how the movement has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, the visual should reinforce that reality.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,147 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Best gif of my day, btw...
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,147 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)board, so they drove me away because they were DIVISIVE. Nice JOB!"
LizBeth
(9,946 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,147 posts)hear her co-star talking.
LizBeth
(9,946 posts)handmade34
(22,755 posts)and maybe it can be fixed so that the nomination truly reflects what BLM is...
hamsterjill
(15,214 posts)I think this photo is representative of the true intent of BLM, being to bring people - ALL people - together. As has been outlined further in this thread, this photo is also only one representation. Are we to analyze each one? I am glad that BLM has been nominated and may very well win.
gulliver
(13,142 posts)I get that the picture should have had Black people (more and in front), but the picture points out a basic problem. Every "street is our stage" movement automatically attracts a mix of in-group supporters, out-of-group supporters, co-opters, wannabes, attention seekers and, unfortunately, yahoos. The Internet quickly turns a "protest" into an incoherent, usually counterproductive Tower of Babel flash mob.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)These protests were overwhelmingly black. They could have closed their eyes and randomly grabbed countless photos featuring black people without even looking at them. Someone had to go through a lot of trouble to pull this photo - or if it wasn't intentional, no one else involved in getting this story moving and to the public didn't notice that showed a bunch of white people and never thought to say, "can we find another picture that more accurately depicts the movement?"
This wasn't accidental.
Vivienne235729
(3,373 posts)gulliver
(13,142 posts)It's so bad that it definitely could be sneaky malice or bias. It could also be incompetence or other factors too. The editor might have thought the photo was the best click-bait (for positive or negative reasons) and that was all they cared about. But I do get that it obviously stinks and is worth pointing out.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Because intentional or not, the effect is the same. Unintentional bias is just as damaging.
gulliver
(13,142 posts)Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)Cause I think theyre gonna win that prize.
Vivienne235729
(3,373 posts)As yet another great example of how the media is racially biased. This is terrible. Pink slips need to be passed out and there needs to be meetings across the country talking about this.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... patronizing but on the face looks benign.
The person who did this didn't know about the trope (and it looks like there's a lot of people on DU who don't either) but that usually because there's a cultural deficit in the M$M.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Even more troubling is the "why shouldn't white people be praised for helping black people?" tone to those defenses.
intheflow
(28,407 posts)How any white person on the left could be trotting out the "All Lives Matter" and "But white people are supporting BLM!" after 2020 is beyond reason or intellect. The whole freaking phrase was created JUST for this reason! BLACK lives matter! That doesn't equal any other people's lives *not* mattering, it's that we as a country need to turn our gaze towards Black lives and Black experiences under white supremacist culture. We white people need to step back and let Black people lead this movement, even as we can't expect Black people to do the heavy lifting to overcome racism because we broke it, we own it. Step up, fellow White folks! Your colorblind good-intentions continue to help oppress Black bodies.
LeftInTX
(24,560 posts)I did some hunting on because it said MSN. MSN reposts lots of news like Raw Story does. Photo is credited with Washington Examiner.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/black-lives-matter-proposed-for-nobel-peace-prize/ar-BB1deDo4?li=BBnbfcL
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/black-lives-matter-movement-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize/ar-BB1ddjyt
Picture found here was from Washington Examiner: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/black-lives-matter-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize/ar-BB1ddDOL (not an appropriate picture to represent a movement)
Other articles: https://news.yahoo.com/black-lives-matter-movement-nominated-012834718.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/01/30/black-lives-matter-nominated-nobel-peace-prize-norwegian-mp/4322546001/
SharonClark
(10,005 posts)Now Im curious why the tweeter used that picture without identifying the source as part of right wing media.
Solly Mack
(90,740 posts)Yes, BLM has become a global movement that has garnered support from various allies all over the United States and around the world - but
And it's a huge fucking BUT -
Black Lives Matter came out of the pain and anger felt each and every time black people were killed at the hands of the police. It is, first and foremost, a black movement. A movement begun by black people for black people, in support of and supported by black people, for the lives of black people.
Black faces should be front and center as representative of the movement. Regardless of participation by allies.
No one is trying to kick white people out of the club, just saying if you're going to recognize Black Lives Matter, then recognize.
Alicia Garza, Opal Tometi, and Patrisse Cullors. Learn their names.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)You'll drive them away with your divisiveness.
Because, unfortunately, this is needed ...
Solly Mack
(90,740 posts)a form of structural racism and, acting as a tribute to white privilege, it often comes with a comfort zone so as to not offend.
And if anyone thinks news doesn't market the news, well - think again. Even when you think it is something just so innocent, look again.
The photo in the OP is mostly white people out front, mostly men, with a few black faces, several women, and both gay and straight.
All inclusive, right?
Yet that's not the story (stories) behind Black Lives Matter is it?
Those stories being the many deaths of black people suffered at the hands of the police and racism period.
Sure, we can talk about how great and wonderful togetherness is - but first you have to recognize the reasons behind the Black Lives Matter movement.
Structural racism kills. White privilege kills. Racism kills. Racist cops kill.
Yes, a more diverse grouping appeals to, and allows comfort for, those who find a group of black people intimidating.
But there's the rub - and ain't it always?
Why should a group of black faces cause people to feel uncomfortable?
Why should it change how people view a cause, a movement, even a product?
Take any generic product used by all, but for the longest time all you ever saw was white faces. Comfort zone advertising. Racism in advertising.
Oh, and least anyone think I'm overlooking another aspect:
That rainbow sign, while meant to show inclusion in the OP photo - will also offend a lot of people. Because of bigotry against the LGBTQ community.
Bigotry in advertising also attacks the LGBTQ community as well. People of color, women, even religions.
Sure, we can all point to commercials and such that do try to be inclusive - but that hasn't been the history and that racist marketing history has done nothing but further entrench racist thinking.
It's about the visibility of black people and not the diminishing of black people and their lives.
That's why how BLM is presented matters. It makes a difference.
It's about the visibility of all groups not the dominant culture or dominant power and how they are represented. It matters. It makes a difference.
Otherwise, just go get Kendall Jenner and see if she is up for another commercial on the struggles of being oppressed.
Bettie
(15,998 posts)maybe you could frame the picture so that the Black faces are in the foreground.
Center the people who the march is for. I'm betting that there are photos that have Black people in the foreground and white people in the background, giving the same impression: that many support the movement, but have the people for whom it is life and death in the foreground.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)on a visceral level. I remember the feeling, in a totally different context, when I went to see the much acclaimed movie Schindlers List, way back in 1993. I grew increasingly agitated over the course of the film, and then finally angry. Why was this about two white guys (an Irishman, playing the Aryan hero, and a Nazi), while the purported subjects were nowhere: faceless victims with no agency and no story. When I expressed this to others, no one got it. Well, not until this guy wrote something almost two decades later that made me feel like I hadnt been so crazy after all:
Last week, Tablet Magazine published our list of the 100 greatest Jewish films of all time. At the very bottom was Schindlers List. In a brief blurb, I called it an astoundingly stupid movie, which, in turn, inspired some of our readers to call me a piece of shit and a neo-Naziall for casting an aspersion on what, if they are to be believed, is everyones favorite Holocaust movie.
Which makes perfect sense: More than just a regrettable film, Schindlers List neatly reflects the Manichean mindset of many American Jews, for whom mythology trumps memory and nothing lies beyond good and evil. Those who howled at me werent expressing a mere aesthetic judgment; they were defending a worldview.
To understand this worldview, we need only look at Schindlers List. The films two main characters are Liam Neesons Oskar Schindler and Ralph Fiennes Nazi officer, Amon Goeth. The first is a philandering and greedy German who sees a little girl in a red coat and has a nearly instantaneous epiphany, realizing that life is precious and that Jews should be saved. The other is a monster; ...
Spielbergs ... Jews do not matter. Theyre abstractions, spiritual currency so that our hero can pay his way toward salvation. Like Goeth, Schindler, too, is busy scrubbing away everything that makes him human.
The films blunt simplification enraged the Hungarian-Jewish Nobel laureate Imre Kertész, himself a survivor. Schindlers List, he argued, was kitsch. I regard as kitsch any representation of the Holocaust that is incapable of understanding or unwilling to understand the organic connection between our own deformed mode of life (whether in the private sphere or on the level of civilization as such) and the very possibility of the Holocaust,
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/listless
My skin is white, and while I may be only able to understand the depredations of the black body on an intellectual rather than a visceral level, I do relate to the anger this image must generate. It angers me too.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Whoever chose that photo to talk about BLM getting nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize is ignoring that the movement was started by Black people and is about systemic racism against Black people and that White people are ONLY there in a supporting role.
Christ! White people dont have the problems that Black people do with racism in this country. It isnt about them! And on their own merits they did NOT earn the nomination. The Black organizers did.
I dont blame the White people in the photo because I think theyre being supportive. I blame whoever chose that photograph. Especially when the subject is about BLM itself being nominated.
It would piss me off if the subject were about womens rights and the photo just depicted men!
Hekate
(90,202 posts)Well thats just wrong.
Im sure Ill catch up later.