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11 Bravo

(23,922 posts)
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 09:22 PM Jan 2012

I have visited prostitutes, and I don't apologize for it. It was 1971, in a place called Vung Tau.

I was 20 years old and rated R&R after having just spent two months in the A Shau Valley as a part of Operation Lam Son 719. We had been in combat damned near non-stop for most of that time, and I had tagged and bagged friends of mine. I also knew that I would be headed back into the exact same fucking meat grinder after my week at VT. In short, I had no idea if I would ever see 21.
So what did I do? I got laid. Every fucking night.
Am I proud of it? No. But am I embarrassed by it? Again, no.
Have at me.

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I have visited prostitutes, and I don't apologize for it. It was 1971, in a place called Vung Tau. (Original Post) 11 Bravo Jan 2012 OP
No. PDJane Jan 2012 #1
As a woman of color, I cannot condemn you for what you did Ecumenist Jan 2012 #2
I'm sorry you had to go through combat experiences, and I'm glad you came out alive. nt Fire Walk With Me Jan 2012 #3
Even if I weren't married, I've no desire for a prostitute. But people should have.... phleshdef Jan 2012 #4
Who the fuck "wants to be" a prostitute? Fool Count Jan 2012 #97
Just cause you couldn't fathom wanting to be a prostitute doesn't make it scientifically impossible phleshdef Jan 2012 #98
There are such people. I've known a few of them. Cleita Jan 2012 #115
This message was self-deleted by its author MineralMan Jan 2012 #5
After discussion, and advice from admins, I'm unlocking this thread, MineralMan Jan 2012 #6
I just want to thank you publicly for your PMs to me. 11 Bravo Jan 2012 #8
You're more than welcome. MineralMan Jan 2012 #20
Welcome back. rug Jan 2012 #7
Can't say I wouldn't have done the same in those circumstances. Glad you made it back Bravo! FarLeftFist Jan 2012 #9
Excellent point, because... pipi_k Jan 2012 #48
As a woman I wonder if those prostitutes Mojorabbit Jan 2012 #113
As I said in another thread, if you stop all prostitution... Zalatix Jan 2012 #118
Yep...And that's why pipi_k Jan 2012 #140
Problem with foreign factories is the pollution and land degradation Zalatix Jan 2012 #141
Well, since pipi_k Jan 2012 #139
This message was self-deleted by its author Bunny Jan 2012 #10
Who cares? to each his/her own book_worm Jan 2012 #11
My thought exactly. n/t RebelOne Jan 2012 #18
I imagine the women who sold their bodies to survive the war care. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #22
Better than starving, no? Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #25
Based on your last sentence you know nothing about prostitution. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #33
Most women don't come to the conclusion that being a prostitute is better than Mickey Ds justiceischeap Jan 2012 #36
And every factoid in your post underlines the need to legalize it. TalkingDog Jan 2012 #45
When prostitution is legalized, these problems drop dramatically Major Nikon Jan 2012 #74
I would argue that most of the problems associated with prostitution justiceischeap Jan 2012 #78
So why not address that problem directly? Major Nikon Jan 2012 #82
sure, i'd just love to blow strangers instead of flipping burgers! Scout Jan 2012 #51
But they like it! redqueen Jan 2012 #62
Denial often works both ways Major Nikon Jan 2012 #76
Not an advocate of child rape, just of the idea that bodies are commodities, redqueen Jan 2012 #77
It's the same thing Major Nikon Jan 2012 #80
My problem with your argument Major is the following justiceischeap Jan 2012 #79
You've failed to understand my argument Major Nikon Jan 2012 #81
We can go in circles all day long :) justiceischeap Jan 2012 #85
I don't think that's going to happen Major Nikon Jan 2012 #87
So you'd prefer that they DIDN'T survive? EOTE Jan 2012 #38
Is that what you really got out of that? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #47
What was I supposed to get from it? EOTE Jan 2012 #49
War made it necessary. No one seems to consider how these women may be scarred for life. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #53
So prostitution didn't exist before the war? EOTE Jan 2012 #57
Would you be as supportive if one of these women were found to be under 18? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #59
No, and that's what would be considered a strawman! Congratulations. EOTE Jan 2012 #61
Do you accept the fact that most of these women have been abused or come from broken homes? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #67
No, not most. Certainly higher than the general population, though. EOTE Jan 2012 #71
Here's more women working to survive. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #73
Congratulations, you've won the "Strawman of the thread" award. EOTE Jan 2012 #75
What if the pigs gave the woman gainful employment rather than using MattBaggins Jan 2012 #130
What if a magic wand eliminated all unemployment and gave people exactly the jobs they wanted? EOTE Jan 2012 #135
My son is exactly the age you were then. yardwork Jan 2012 #12
Yeah, me too...different part of the country, in 1970.... cliffordu Jan 2012 #13
No problem. Nobody can explain why it is illegal in this country sfpcjock Jan 2012 #14
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #15
Two thumbs down RZM Jan 2012 #16
Sex is extra productive when you don't pay the girl first. Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #26
How do you think the girls in a war torn country MattBaggins Jan 2012 #131
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #27
Alerting unionworks Jan 2012 #43
Been there. Done that. oneshooter Jan 2012 #17
all I'll say is I feel for the women Raine Jan 2012 #19
Thank you. WinkyDink Jan 2012 #28
This... Fawke Em Jan 2012 #30
+1. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #40
But they chose to do it! redqueen Jan 2012 #65
+1 treestar Jan 2012 #88
+1 demmiblue Jan 2012 #106
that's more about the war than about prostitution Enrique Jan 2012 #21
That's not fully correct MattBaggins Jan 2012 #132
I think many of us have paid Upton Jan 2012 #23
at one time or another, in one form or another, for sex. seabeyond Jan 2012 #42
We all note your LACK of disagreement with the statement's truth. Occulus Jan 2012 #63
i understand you position, too. you have made it clear on numerous occasions. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #70
I'll never support Comfort Women. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #24
We all of us rationalize many of our actions. LanternWaste Jan 2012 #29
My partner did the same thing in Viet Nam and Thailand w8liftinglady Jan 2012 #31
I believe that was the same reason the Japanese gave. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #35
For soliciting prostitutes? Well good for them. NT EOTE Jan 2012 #39
For the need for Comfort Women. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #46
OK, so your post really doesn't say anything regarding the inherit good of the practice either way. EOTE Jan 2012 #50
The reasoning here is that soldiers need a release. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #52
Wow, you sure are good at saying things without actually saying anything. NT EOTE Jan 2012 #56
It's all in the thread. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #60
You still have yet to say anything of substance. EOTE Jan 2012 #68
Legalize it. roody Jan 2012 #32
Interesting Dorian Gray Jan 2012 #34
Glad you got that off your chest. Major Hogwash Jan 2012 #37
That's a shame MattBaggins Jan 2012 #133
From a woman... WilmywoodNCparalegal Jan 2012 #41
Should women who have been abused not have that option? EOTE Jan 2012 #58
No, I wouldn't. WilmywoodNCparalegal Jan 2012 #84
interesting contradiction lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #72
While a contradiction in fact, WilmywoodNCparalegal Jan 2012 #83
First of all... pipi_k Jan 2012 #44
Was her name Tuyet Bandit Jan 2012 #54
Nor should you be. tallahasseedem Jan 2012 #55
TMI Liberal_in_LA Jan 2012 #64
Instead of discussing whether the women would have been hedgehog Jan 2012 #66
As the child of a relationship between an Asian woman and a GI Generic Other Jan 2012 #69
God Bless You unionworks Jan 2012 #93
How did the women who serviced you JerseyMac Jan 2012 #86
Join the military unionworks Jan 2012 #90
Which doesn't appear to address the relevant question: LanternWaste Jan 2012 #91
They probably felt no better unionworks Jan 2012 #94
Being in combat JerseyMac Jan 2012 #95
Where did I say they were women? What are you, some kind of homophobic bigot? 11 Bravo Jan 2012 #99
Object Lesson unionworks Jan 2012 #101
That's why I say 'prostitutes'. redqueen Jan 2012 #103
Wow after 40 years JerseyMac Jan 2012 #104
Wow! 4 Posts unionworks Jan 2012 #105
Good for you JerseyMac Jan 2012 #108
Who's says they were forced? EX500rider Jan 2012 #119
I'm guessing she feels lucky to be alive, if she is DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #126
I have read enough about war... DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #125
Though I feel bad about you having the friends be killed treestar Jan 2012 #89
Your post unionworks Jan 2012 #112
Seems reasonable. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #92
I hope they loved you for a long time slackmaster Jan 2012 #96
Dear God unionworks Jan 2012 #100
Wish the women could have been armed.. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #102
Many of them were armed unionworks Jan 2012 #110
Why do you want to silence those who are concerned with the women.. demmiblue Jan 2012 #114
Why do you advocate that people soliciting a prostitute deserve to get shot? EOTE Jan 2012 #137
My older brother was there a a year or so before you liberaltrucker Jan 2012 #107
What exactly JerseyMac Jan 2012 #109
I have no right because I've never been there liberaltrucker Jan 2012 #122
I did serve MattBaggins Jan 2012 #134
It's the fundamental building block in our country's unwillingness to prosecute war crimes JVS Jan 2012 #129
You didn't do anything I didn't do - and they spoke english FreakinDJ Jan 2012 #111
I've never met a prostitute... NightTemplar Jan 2012 #116
None of my friends died in Vietnam unionworks Jan 2012 #117
Set him straight? EOTE Jan 2012 #136
was referring to unionworks Jan 2012 #138
You did. Much thanks. EOTE Jan 2012 #142
I thought the days unionworks Jan 2012 #144
Americans: noamnety Jan 2012 #120
O.K. 19 year old conscripts unionworks Jan 2012 #124
For the record (for the benefit of others) noamnety Jan 2012 #127
Subjegate South East Asians while on duty, Subjegate South East Asians on leave. JVS Jan 2012 #121
I love this thread unionworks Jan 2012 #123
The devil is in the details. Vattel Jan 2012 #128
You violently raped those women after they were victims of human trafficking. TransitJohn Jan 2012 #143

Ecumenist

(6,086 posts)
2. As a woman of color, I cannot condemn you for what you did
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 09:27 PM
Jan 2012

in the situation you were facing. I understand and Christ's sake, you had no idea if you would see the sun rise the next day when you were in that bloody theatre. Thank God you're here to talk about it. It might not have been what I would advise you to do but you were 20 and facing the horror of a lifetime.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
4. Even if I weren't married, I've no desire for a prostitute. But people should have....
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 09:27 PM
Jan 2012

...the right to be one, if thats what they want to be, or to hire one if thats what they want to do. Period.

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
97. Who the fuck "wants to be" a prostitute?
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 05:27 PM
Jan 2012

If there were such people, they would go to prostitute colleges to fulfill their "dream".
And I didn't hear of any such educational institutions even in countries where prostitution
is legal.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
98. Just cause you couldn't fathom wanting to be a prostitute doesn't make it scientifically impossible
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 05:35 PM
Jan 2012

Not everyone is like YOU or like ME.

Its naive and ignorant to say that every prostitute is a prostitute against his or her personal will or out of some dark desperation.

Its also naive and ignorant to say every prostitute is a prostitute because they enjoy sex and want to get paid to have it.

Whether you are talking about prostitutes, strippers, adult film stars, males, females, what have you... you could make a list of reasons of why people become these things and that list would range from one extreme to the other. YES, some people do become prostitutes because its what they WANT to do. There are plenty of prostitutes in areas where its legal that will go on record and proclaim this to your face. And YES, some people do get involved in that kind of work because they are desperate or they are forced into it somehow and thats awful.

Regardless, people need to stop pretending like its either one way or the other and accept the fact that not everyone fucking thinks about the world the way you do.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
115. There are such people. I've known a few of them.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:31 PM
Jan 2012

One was a high priced part time call girl, a college grad, who had a respectable day job that didn't pay enough money for what she wanted so did weekend "dates" on the side. She retired when she was thirty-five with a really nice bank account. She married and had a family soon after. Her husband knew what her former profession was too. There were a couple of girls I knew that were of that category. Don't know how they ended up.

Then there were the street walker junkies on the other end of the spectrum. These girls were exploited by pimps, boyfriends and in one case her husband. I became the person they called to get them out of jail. There's all kinds of variations in between. Why did I know these women? I was a bartender and there was a topless bar in the same neighborhood of one of the places I worked in. The girls would patronize where I worked in so I got to know them. Not all but some of them were also hookers.

There is a variety of ways to sell yourself for sex to men. Many are exploitive and victimize women, but many are not. I do believe in legalized prostitution with strict laws governing it. Sure there will always be the illegal forms of it, but it at least narrows it down to what is a crime so that the police can go after the gangs or pimps that are victimizing women into these types of prostitution.

Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
6. After discussion, and advice from admins, I'm unlocking this thread,
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 10:12 PM
Jan 2012

and kicking it back to the top. We're still learning how to manage this hosting stuff and interpret the GD Statement of Purpose. My apologies for the inconvenience. Carry on.

11 Bravo

(23,922 posts)
8. I just want to thank you publicly for your PMs to me.
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 10:25 PM
Jan 2012

I got pretty hot and you were never anything but calm, collected, and respectful. I sincerely say, "Thanks".

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
20. You're more than welcome.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:58 AM
Jan 2012

DU3 is still finding it's level. Occasionally, a thread gets locked, then unlocked after discussion among the hosts, and sometimes with input from the admins. The SOP for GD and other main forums gets refined each time that happens. I don't know if it will ever be understood completely, but we're all trying.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
48. Excellent point, because...
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:35 AM
Jan 2012

how easy is it for people to get all up on their high horses and pass judgement on someone else for something he did 40+ years ago when he was still basically a kid.

It absolutely infuriates me when people smugly say, "Well I would never have done that!!!!"

Yeah. As the song goes, "Walk a mile in my shoes..."

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
113. As a woman I wonder if those prostitutes
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:18 PM
Jan 2012

were forced into that life because of living in a war torn country as a means to stay alive or support their families. It is not an unusual occurance during war. I don't fault what anyone did when they were young but because the op has a good memory of it it does not follow necessarily that the women he was with have the same memory. A lot of women in that way had children that were not accepted in the community. I worked a clinic as a volunteer overseas at a military base in the 70's. I gave out the vd packets to men coming back from r and r in the phillipines. Obviously there were a lot of infected prostitutes there and from what I was told lots of very young girls working. These guys got to come back, get treated and go back with their lives but the girls and women left behind did not have that luxury.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
118. As I said in another thread, if you stop all prostitution...
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:44 PM
Jan 2012

a lot of women would face a violence of a different kind: starvation.

Poverty fuels a lot of prostitution.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
140. Yep...And that's why
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 12:08 PM
Jan 2012

there are so few truly black and white, either/or issues in the world.

People rant on about clothing factories in certain countries where workers are not treated well and making disgustingly pitiful wages.

Alternatives?

Starvation. Death. Prostitution (even for children)

We're not supposed to buy things from other countries, but if we don't, families over there starve.

People think they have all the easy answers, but they don't because there often are no easy answers.


 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
141. Problem with foreign factories is the pollution and land degradation
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 12:11 PM
Jan 2012

When the factories close, particularly foreign ones, the populace is even worse off. Their money, what meager little they got, is all gone, and they've got a rotting factory leeching pollutants into the soil. Many factories also sit on land which used to be forest or farmland.

After that, you have even MORE prostitutes in the region, trying to survive in worse conditions than they had before.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
139. Well, since
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 11:59 AM
Jan 2012

your first sentence is:

As a woman I wonder if those prostitutes were forced into that life because of living in a war torn country as a means to stay alive or support their families.


You don't really know. Nor do I.

Maybe they were, maybe they weren't.

I think I would question whether the OP has a good memory of his experiences with the prostitutes there. No doubt it's all wrapped up in the horror that was Vietnam. Just a way for him...indeed, a whole lot of people...to live another day.

I'm a Baby Boomer myself, and even though I was nowhere near Vietnam at the time, I can't even see footage from the war without sobbing.

Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Saving Hawaii

(441 posts)
25. Better than starving, no?
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 10:11 AM
Jan 2012

It's sometimes hard to make ends meet. Worse when bombs are being dropped on your hometown, but there's plenty of people with few opportunities here and everywhere else. Why deny them a living because you think it isn't respectable. Perhaps not the best living, but it ain't much worse (is it at all worse) than being a fry cook at Mickey-Ds.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
36. Most women don't come to the conclusion that being a prostitute is better than Mickey Ds
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 10:59 AM
Jan 2012

Most women that enter into prostitution do so because of two things--economics and childhood sexual abuse. And when you figure in that a street prostitute makes roughly enough money to buy a rock, they aren't making all this great money people seem to think they make. Yes, there are women who are "escorts" who make more money but guess, what, they are rare and usually are not in the same position the majority of women (and young boys) on the streets are in. Keep in mind, most of the women who are prostitutes are street prostitutes who have to share their $5-20 pay with their pimp. So if you want to claim that's better than working at McDonald's, you go ahead and flounder under that belief (and read this blog post while you're at it: http://vickiesprostitutionblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-much-money-do-prostitutes-make-part_12.html)

From Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault (page 80):

ADULTS
One million women and girls work as prostitutes.

1% of US women have worked as prostitutes at some point, with four years being an average length of career.

There are 100,000 arrests annually for prostitution.

Of women held at the Cook County Jail during a one-year period, about 75% were first arrested for prostitution.

Of women held at the Cook County Jail in October 2001 and charged with non-violent offenses, 34% were regularly involved in some form of prostitution.

CHILDREN

500,000 to 1.2 million children are involved in child prostitution. There are at least 300,000 male prostitutes under age 16.

Between 300,000 and 400,000 American children and youth are victimized by sexual exploitation each year.

In one study, 1/3 of the women entered prostitution before the age of 15, and 62% of the sample were in prostitution before their 18th birthdays.

Most children enter prostitution at the age of 14.

60% of child prostitutes are first recruited by peers.

96% of prostitutes who entered prostitution as juveniles were runaways. Most stated they had no other option for making money.

http://bit.ly/ABmTxH

TalkingDog

(9,001 posts)
45. And every factoid in your post underlines the need to legalize it.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:25 AM
Jan 2012

Yes, it will still go on illegally. But, barring the 1% giving up some of their tax dollars so that there can be a social safety net, that's never going to change.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
74. When prostitution is legalized, these problems drop dramatically
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:50 PM
Jan 2012

Since you're into blog posts, you might want to check this one out also:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bethany-st-james/sexuality-romance_b_1196610.html

Most of the problems associated with prostitution arise because the practice is driven underground either through its criminalization, public perception, or both. The same principle happens with drugs. Advocates for drug criminalization point out all the problems associated with it, yet they fail to acknowledge that many of these problems are a direct result of drug criminalization itself. When you make something illegal, you generally abdicate any effective means of regulating it.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
78. I would argue that most of the problems associated with prostitution
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 01:18 PM
Jan 2012

and I'm referring to street level prostitution is children running away from home because they've been sexually abused by a guardian/parent/relative and feel they have no choice but to get away from that form of sexual abuse... only to run into the arms of far worse sexual abuse.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
82. So why not address that problem directly?
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 01:49 PM
Jan 2012

It's a pretty easy argument to make that children should not be involved in prostitution.

Scout

(8,624 posts)
51. sure, i'd just love to blow strangers instead of flipping burgers!
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:51 AM
Jan 2012


being a cum-bucket is such a great way to feed yourself!

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
62. But they like it!
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:36 PM
Jan 2012

Seriously! And it's not cause most of them were sexually abused, physically abused, etc. So stop saying that!

The level of denial around here is... typical.

I guess next we can expect threads defending sweatshops, cause it's better than starving, and by god they have agency and if they want to do it then that's their choice dadgummit!

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
76. Denial often works both ways
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:57 PM
Jan 2012

Even if you really could make the case for "most" which is not actually all that easy, you're still left with millions of women and men who enter some type of sexually oriented career of their own free will without harming anyone. Pointing this out often results in the predictable response that one must be an advocate of child rape if they believe that.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
77. Not an advocate of child rape, just of the idea that bodies are commodities,
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 01:01 PM
Jan 2012

and someone who considers anyone coerced into the underground sex trade to be just so much collateral damage, to be written off and ignored, because heaven forbid we try to change as a society.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
80. It's the same thing
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 01:30 PM
Jan 2012

What you're saying is that if anyone is an advocate of civil liberty, they must also be an advocate for any "collateral damage" which results. This is a flawed argument. It is entirely possible to be both for civil liberties and against the problems which may result from some people exercising those civil liberties. Consider the analogy that because I am for alcohol consumption, I must be writing off or ignoring drunk driving. This is easily debunked, yet you're making the exact same argument in regards to sexually oriented workers.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
79. My problem with your argument Major is the following
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 01:21 PM
Jan 2012

What really often happens around here is someone points out the obvious, like my post above you commented on and instead of addressing the very real issue of how poorly prostitutes are treated before they even become prostitutes is turned into the argument your're making now. You're taking no part in a genuine discussion of the actual problem--you just end up attacking or ignoring people who bring in real facts to the debate.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
81. You've failed to understand my argument
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 01:47 PM
Jan 2012

You can point to problems associated with prostitution all day long and still not make the case that prostitution itself is inherently wrong. What you're saying is that if someone believes in people's right to do something that doesn't hurt anyone else, they must be ignoring the problems associated with some of that activity. This is fallacious and demonstrates dichotomous thinking. Just because I point out that there is nothing inherently unethical about prostitution does not mean I think children should be abused.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
85. We can go in circles all day long :)
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 02:11 PM
Jan 2012

Yet even if we legalized prostitution the problems associated with it doesn't go away and I'm of the mind that you shouldn't ignore the issues associated with it. Your argument that prostitution doesn't hurt anyone else is simply false. Prostitution is not a victimless crime as many like to claim. I don't know that any street-level prostitute really wants to be a prostitute; she does because she has to survive but that doesn't mean that she isn't a victim. It doesn't mean that a man who hires a street-level prostitute because he wants to go bareback and then goes home to his wife and gives her an STD means it's victimless. As I've stated in several posts now, the majority of prostitutes on the streets have already been victimized with sexual abuse. That in no way says that I think you agree that children be abused, it means I think you don't want to think about the abuse that continues into prostitution.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
87. I don't think that's going to happen
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 03:32 PM
Jan 2012

I don't have much interest in continuous discussion if one side refuses to be objective. My patience does have limits. If you want to continue to make unreasonable assumptions about my assertions, at some point I'm simply going to invite you to go piss up a rope. If you want to be objective and engage in reasonable discussion, I'm more than happy to participate.

Once again you're pointing out problems that are associated with prostitution rather than prostitution itself. If you really want to address a problem, your first step should be identifying what the actual problem is in the first place. You continuously reference "street-level" prostitution, which is an example of unregulated prostitution. It's silly to assume that advocating for any civil liberty means it should not be regulated. Every civil liberty you have is regulated in some way. Furthermore in order to make your argument you continuously pretend that I don't want to think about the "abuse" or any other problems associated with prostitution. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I think prostitution should be legalized (not just decriminalized) and regulated. I see that as the best and most reasonable way to deal with all the problems associated with prostitution that you've mentioned. That doesn't mean those problems are simply going to disappear, but it does go a long way towards reducing those social issues, especially when you compare that to simply dreaming about prostitution going away.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
38. So you'd prefer that they DIDN'T survive?
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:02 AM
Jan 2012

How nice of you. And if that's not what you're suggesting, just what ARE you suggesting?

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
49. What was I supposed to get from it?
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:45 AM
Jan 2012

You talked about it as if it's a bad thing, right? I do IT work to survive. If they'd give me a paycheck anyway, I certainly wouldn't be doing it. Do you want to ban IT work as well?

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
57. So prostitution didn't exist before the war?
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:22 PM
Jan 2012

And things which increase due to the war should be what? Eliminated? Many horrible things happen due to wars. Which ways of supporting one's self or one's family should be eliminated? Ones which people normally wouldn't do if a paycheck wasn't provided? That would eliminate 99% of all jobs. This line of thinking is just asinine.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
61. No, and that's what would be considered a strawman! Congratulations.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:36 PM
Jan 2012

I don't support minors in the sex industry period. And yes, I'm very well aware that in countries where the sex industry is not regulated, there are plenty of minors to be found. That's why it needs to be tightly regulated. Any more strawmen?

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
67. Do you accept the fact that most of these women have been abused or come from broken homes?
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:39 PM
Jan 2012

Men will tell themselves a lot of things to help them sleep at night.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
71. No, not most. Certainly higher than the general population, though.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:44 PM
Jan 2012

That still means nothing. Are we to eliminate all jobs which tend to attract employees more likely to have been abused? Does having been abused mean that a woman is no longer capable of choosing her own profession? Logic is tough, ain't it?

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
75. Congratulations, you've won the "Strawman of the thread" award.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:52 PM
Jan 2012

How the fuck does this have anything to do with the issue being discussed? Are you capable of following a discussion even in the slightest?

MattBaggins

(7,894 posts)
130. What if the pigs gave the woman gainful employment rather than using
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 12:59 AM
Jan 2012

her for pleasure.

If you have money to spare to pay a woman for sex, you could pay her the same money for something less selfish.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
135. What if a magic wand eliminated all unemployment and gave people exactly the jobs they wanted?
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 11:21 AM
Jan 2012

Unfortunately, the world is not a perfect place. People don't always get to choose exactly the profession they want or get to dictate their salary. If it was, I'd be an F1 driver and not an IT worker. And I'm sure you never spend your money on something you actually want, all of your money goes to orphanages in third world countries and you live in a box because of it. Give me a break, if it weren't for strawmen and other logical fallacies, I'd imagine you'd be completely out of ways to make an argument.

cliffordu

(30,994 posts)
13. Yeah, me too...different part of the country, in 1970....
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 10:45 PM
Jan 2012

"...I do declare, I took some comfort there...."
To quote S&G.....


Desperate times make for behaviors outside the norm.

Welcome home, brother.

sfpcjock

(1,936 posts)
14. No problem. Nobody can explain why it is illegal in this country
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 10:47 PM
Jan 2012

in most places, but goes on everywhere, and puts the women at much greater risk.

Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
16. Two thumbs down
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 10:59 PM
Jan 2012


I'm no expert on prostitution, but I imagine being the oldest profession, prostitutes have their ways to ensure that they don't get pregnant from every encounter. I imagine many of the children born out of conflict don't come from encounters like this, but from flings/relationships where money doesn't change hands.

Saving Hawaii

(441 posts)
26. Sex is extra productive when you don't pay the girl first.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 10:13 AM
Jan 2012

That's why I always tip my gf a penny. So she doesn't get pregnant.

MattBaggins

(7,894 posts)
131. How do you think the girls in a war torn country
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:03 AM
Jan 2012

handle pregnancy?

I would image it involved a metal object and being held down. The fantasy of "Pretty Woman" has even become part of a mythos of war time prostitution.

Response to Post removed (Reply #15)

Raine

(30,540 posts)
19. all I'll say is I feel for the women
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 11:16 PM
Jan 2012

because of that situation either did that or they and their families would starve. Hopefully the women you used were able to later live a life that wasn't tainted by their war-time experiences.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
65. But they chose to do it!
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:38 PM
Jan 2012

That makes it all ok! We don't have to care about anything else, so long as they decide to do it for whatever reason! Right?

This is progressive! We're letting them choose!

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
21. that's more about the war than about prostitution
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 10:06 AM
Jan 2012

soldiers also kill people in war, which is not something to judge the soldier for, but it also doesn't mean killing people is right.

MattBaggins

(7,894 posts)
132. That's not fully correct
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:06 AM
Jan 2012

Even in war there is legal killing of the enemy and illegal murder.

Robbery would still be illegal for a soldier.
Extortion would be illegal for a soldier.
Torture would be illegal (well it was till that asshat Bush changed that).

Upton

(9,709 posts)
23. I think many of us have paid
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 10:08 AM
Jan 2012

at one time or another, in one form or another, for sex. It's going to happen no matter how hard people try to legislate morality. So, lets legalize and regulate prostitution, much like I feel drugs, particularly pot, should be..

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
42. at one time or another, in one form or another, for sex.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:16 AM
Jan 2012

here it is again. so consistently said and allowed on du. the forum of progressives.

all of us are prostitutes.

one way

or

another.

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
63. We all note your LACK of disagreement with the statement's truth.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:37 PM
Jan 2012

Many people, at one time or another, have paid for sex. As much as you hate that, and no matter how bitterly your tears may fall over it, it's a statement of cold, hard fact.

What in the blue fuck does that observation have to do with DU, DU being a progressive discussion board, or the observation being allowed to be made on DU?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
29. We all of us rationalize many of our actions.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 10:23 AM
Jan 2012

We all of us rationalize many of our actions throughout our lives.

Sometimes we request to play the role of martyr while we're at it.

w8liftinglady

(23,278 posts)
31. My partner did the same thing in Viet Nam and Thailand
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 10:31 AM
Jan 2012

So did my dad.
It was stress-relief,plain and simple.
I personally have no problem with legalized prostitution....between consenting adults,with std oversight.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
50. OK, so your post really doesn't say anything regarding the inherit good of the practice either way.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:47 AM
Jan 2012

Many nationalities provide a number of reasons as to why they think that prostitution should remain legal. Basic freedom is primary amongst those.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
68. You still have yet to say anything of substance.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:41 PM
Jan 2012

Do you have a legitimate reason for not supporting legalized prostitution? Or do you just want to insult people who have no problem with it?

Dorian Gray

(13,469 posts)
34. Interesting
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 10:48 AM
Jan 2012

It's funny (not ha ha) because I understand the inclination to finding comfort through sex in such circumstances. Or, if not comfort, then "forgetting." But I also can't help but think of what led those women to choose prostitution. The circumstances that led them to selling themselves to American GIs. And that makes me sad for them. But I am also sad for the soldiers who were living through their own hell.

Anyhow, I am glad you are home and alive and well today. I hope the women who lived through the war (and were probably on the wrong side of the Vietcong) are alive and well today, also.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
37. Glad you got that off your chest.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:00 AM
Jan 2012

I had a friend come home hooked on heroin, and another one came home in a box.
They both did what you did, and neither one of them were embarrassed by it later, either.

WilmywoodNCparalegal

(2,654 posts)
41. From a woman...
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:15 AM
Jan 2012

Kudos to you. Now, back to 2012. I was in college not that long ago and I had friends who worked as escorts to pay tuition, cars, trips, etc. None of them had been sexually abused and they could have gotten free rides via family and/or scholarships. One plainly loved having sex. We don't penalize men for publicly admitting that - yet we penalize women for enjoying sex.

The other two felt that many of our peers were having just as much sex in the name of fun and hanging out with the 'right' crowds that they thought... ok why not get paid for it?

The way I view the issue is that a woman who is not a minor, not abused and not coerced should be able to make a living from her body parts the same way Kobe Bryant makes his living using his athletic gifts (and apparently other body parts, but that's a different topic).

I realize my friends' experiences (all of whom are highly credentialed professionals with husbands and kids) are the minority, but the point is that a sexually active and sex-positive female should have the right to make a living at something she enjoys, which may very well be sex.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
58. Should women who have been abused not have that option?
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:28 PM
Jan 2012

Yes, it's very sad that women who enter in these kinds of professions tend to be more likely to have been abused, but would you deny them a personal choice because they've been victimized?

WilmywoodNCparalegal

(2,654 posts)
84. No, I wouldn't.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 01:53 PM
Jan 2012

It's not up to me to tell another woman who is an adult and has not been coerced or forced what to do or not do with her body parts - including uterus and vagina.

But my point remains that there are plenty of healthy (mentally and physically) sexually aware and positive women (and men, of course) who enjoy sex and who don't feel like making a profit out of this is a disgrace or automatically means they were sexually abused or victimized.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
72. interesting contradiction
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:45 PM
Jan 2012

We "penalize women for enjoying sex" by rewarding them with "tuition, cars and trips"?

I agree with you. Not all women who choose to be prostitutes are victims. At least some of them are their own agents.

WilmywoodNCparalegal

(2,654 posts)
83. While a contradiction in fact,
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 01:50 PM
Jan 2012

it is a penalty for the women involved because of the 'reputation' their chosen means of financial 'aid' if you will, and that choice is subjected to intense and negative scrutiny, which is why they keep it secret.

But there's no doubt that women are penalized by society for being sexual beings. Men who like sex are seen as studs. Women who like sex are seen as 'easy' or sluts or worse.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
44. First of all...
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:25 AM
Jan 2012

I'm so sorry for the things you had to see and go through over there.

My heart literally aches for ALL the victims of war, including the men and women who had to fight them.

I'll not have at you. You were young, scared, homesick, and I would imagine that the majority of us here at DU have no idea what that must have been like.

Thank you for your service.

Bandit

(21,475 posts)
54. Was her name Tuyet
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:01 PM
Jan 2012
I know for a fact you were not the ONLY soldier to have "boom boom five bucks"...
Buku bokinuk

hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
66. Instead of discussing whether the women would have been
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:38 PM
Jan 2012

better off starving, maybe we should admit this is what happens to women when countries are at war or revolution, and work to prevent those situations.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
69. As the child of a relationship between an Asian woman and a GI
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:41 PM
Jan 2012

I have always felt that some people viewed my parents' relationship as little better than prostitution. They were married for nearly 40 years. War makes strange bedfellows.

You have no reason to beat yourself up over this.

 

JerseyMac

(12 posts)
86. How did the women who serviced you
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 03:17 PM
Jan 2012

and other troops feel? I don't see one word about it in OP. You do know that a lot of those women were actually underage girls, girls who were forced or outright sold into prostitution. Do you know that your actions were akin to terrible abuse? You had 40 years to think about it but apparently you don't get it - you got what you wanted and you don't care that women/girls whose bodies you used were human beings only that you got laid.

 

unionworks

(3,574 posts)
90. Join the military
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 04:47 PM
Jan 2012

...go into combat. kill people to keep from being killed. Wonder every day if you are going to see another sunrise. Then come back on here and pass judgement on the poster and I will listen to you. Till then, no.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
91. Which doesn't appear to address the relevant question:
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 04:49 PM
Jan 2012

All of which doesn't appear to address the relevant question: "How did the women feel about...?"

 

unionworks

(3,574 posts)
94. They probably felt no better
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 05:07 PM
Jan 2012

...about it than the young men who had to be there. After the war, the Vietnamese government opened "rehabilitation" camps for prostitutes...


" IBTimes Home > World
December 6, 2011 11:37 AM GMT
Vietnam: Prostitutes and Drug Addicts Abused in Rehab 'Work Camps'
By Anissa Haddadi

The United Nation's has called on the Vietnamese government to close down rehabilitation centres for drug users and sex workers, calling them "counter-productive."

Following criticisms from rights groups and claims of abuse and at the end of a ten-day visit in Vietnam, Anand Grover, a special rapporteur for the UN Human Rights Council said Monday that the centres violate rights by forcing treatment upon the patients.

"The detainees are denied the right to be free from non-consensual treatment as well as the right to informed consent in all medically related decisions," Gover said Monday in a statement.

His criticism followed a report by Human Rights Watch calling for Vietnam to shut down drug rehabilitation centres after abuse on inmates were reported.

Grover said the compulsory detention in the centres violates the detainees' situation as they "have no right to know about their case against them and challenge it at a hearing before the decision is made."

He called the centres "ineffective and counterproductive," and said he "wholeheartedly" supports their closure.

"It's essential to ensure that the considerable resources now invested in these centres are used instead to expand alternative treatments for injecting drug users, "he added.

Grover, who also co-founded and directs the HIV/AIDS unit for India's Lawyers Collective, a nongovernmental organization that promotes human rights in India warned that Vietnam's rehabilitation centres contribute to the stigmatization and discrimination of drug users and sex workers.

In September, Human Rights Watch issued a 126-page report urging Vietnam to shut down drug rehabilitation centres after inmates said they were subjected to abuse and forced labour."

Spare us from the tender mercies of "moral" fanatics...

 

JerseyMac

(12 posts)
95. Being in combat
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 05:19 PM
Jan 2012

killing other people, being scared for your life 40 years ago does not justify lack of empathy for those women found in OP - I mean he didn't even mention them.

11 Bravo

(23,922 posts)
99. Where did I say they were women? What are you, some kind of homophobic bigot?
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 06:48 PM
Jan 2012

Being a newbie willing to spout off about something you know nothing about does not justify bigoted and intolerant assumptions.

There, see how easy that was? It's not too difficult to play "Most Righteous and Empathetic Lefty Dude On The Planet".

You have no fucking idea how I felt about or feel to this day regarding that woman (just one ... all week), and yet you feel free to chime in on my supposed lack of empathy with an ignorant post which could easily be construed as displaying a lack of sensitivity to gay GIs.

I guess my point is, don't try so hard; and if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about .. don't try at all.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
103. That's why I say 'prostitutes'.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:16 PM
Jan 2012

People still try to claim that I only mean women, but gay men are a disadvantaged minority subject to exploitation as well.

 

JerseyMac

(12 posts)
104. Wow after 40 years
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:17 PM
Jan 2012

something still bothers you about this experience, I wonder how do women who were forced to do sexual favors feel about it now - are they as angry as you are? You already stated in OP you are not embarrassed by it - and as I said you didn't mention the other person involved. My point is you only seem to think about your feelings - don't you think that woman you spent that week with might feel something different?

EX500rider

(10,531 posts)
119. Who's says they were forced?
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:45 PM
Jan 2012

There was prostitution there before and after the war, not surprising there would be during.
One of the reasons prostitution increases when GI's are around is they pay much more then the local rate, even if it seems cheap to the GI's.
Many 3rd world countries don't have the hang ups or stigma about sex workers as Americans do.
Maybe she thought getting what might have been a weeks wages in her village was better then slaving away in a rice patty for 12 hours a day... For all you know she enjoyed her time with Bravo11 AND got paid 10 times what a local would have paid.
Is it impossible to believe he treated her nicely and she had fun? Just because money is involved doesn't rule out the possibility of the woman enjoying herself.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
126. I'm guessing she feels lucky to be alive, if she is
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:26 PM
Jan 2012

I'm guessing she's happy that she wasn't shelled to death one fine morning.
I'm guessing she felt some relief at some time or another that she didn't starve to death, as so many innocents do during wartime.
I'm guessing that she probably doesn't see 11B as a hero or as a villain, but again, that's just a guess.


And I'm guessing you wouldn't ask questions like this from some virtual ivory tower if you had smelled the stench of dead bodies next to you in the hole you're hiding in.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
125. I have read enough about war...
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:23 PM
Jan 2012

...to know that I'll never understand what it's like. I'm reading a 700 page book on the events of World War 2 right now, and I'm findint out some details I'd never imagined. The descriptions of actual battle are harrowing. The survival rate of submariners, tank drivers, Russians in general...it's appalling. A common thread in this book, which spends lots of time focusing on the words and thoughts of front-line soldiers, is that the people back home couldn't possibly understand what war is really like. The author of this book does a wonderful job of trying to describe what the war was like. But he does such a good job that he argues for his own descriptive limitations. In other words, I could read a 5000 page book on war, and I might gain a greater appreciation for the events of that war. But I'll never know the visceral fear, the pissing in your pants when you hear the first artillery shell (yes, even the manly men), the privation, the conviction that you'd never see another sunset. This is not a part of my life experience, and as such, I'm not going to get down on someone who used the services of a prostitute while in Vietnam. By the way, I'm a veteran of the peacetime Navy, and just want to reiterate, I have no freaking idea what war is like, and I'm fortunate for that. To see some of the posts here that sneer at the experience just helps me realize that these people have no idea what they're talking about--they know even less than I do.

I'm not going to "thank you for your service". That's a BS line used by too many people. I'm going to thank you for your story, and let you know that I wish I did understand it better than I'm able to from the safety of my keyboard. Thank you.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
89. Though I feel bad about you having the friends be killed
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 04:45 PM
Jan 2012

I still feel as bad for the women too, and wish they hadn't had to do that (and that their country had not been invaded).

 

unionworks

(3,574 posts)
112. Your post
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:12 PM
Jan 2012

...is an example of the respectful display of empathy. Please give lessons to some of the people here who don't know how.

girl gone mad

(20,634 posts)
102. Wish the women could have been armed..
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:11 PM
Jan 2012

to defend themselves against such abuses.

Some day women will learn to fight back.

 

unionworks

(3,574 posts)
110. Many of them were armed
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:59 PM
Jan 2012

Many who were prostitutes fought with the Viet Cong, or provided intelligence obtained from loose lipped G.I.s. I will withhold from further dignifying your comments with replies. Welcome to ignore.

demmiblue

(36,751 posts)
114. Why do you want to silence those who are concerned with the women..
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:23 PM
Jan 2012

that are victims of the war? Do you think that their wounds are less than the soldier's wounds? If anything, war, in general, hurts women far more than men.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
137. Why do you advocate that people soliciting a prostitute deserve to get shot?
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 11:30 AM
Jan 2012

That's pretty damned disgusting. And yeah, I'm sure that war effects women far more than men. I'm quite certain that the 65,000 men who died in Vietman, many of them dying slow, agonizing deaths thought to themselves while taking their last breaths: "Things are pretty good now, at least I never had to have sex for money." Dear god, ridiculous just isn't strong enough a word to describe you.

liberaltrucker

(9,129 posts)
107. My older brother was there a a year or so before you
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:28 PM
Jan 2012

191st Assault Helicopter Co. By his accounts, he went went through pretty much
what you did as a Huey door gunner. His R&R was in Hong Kong, he referred to
it as I&I-intoxication and intercourse.

I have no right to pass judgement since I've never been in combat. I'm just happy
that you and my brother came back still breathing.

 

JerseyMac

(12 posts)
109. What exactly
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:45 PM
Jan 2012

happens to people who've been in combat. Can they do whatever and everybody has to say "oh well I've never been in combat so I cannot pass judgement"? What about those who HAD TO service needs of those who've been in combat - is war zone prostitution (and all abuses that go with it) OK for troops?

liberaltrucker

(9,129 posts)
122. I have no right because I've never been there
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:09 PM
Jan 2012

Neither you nor I have no fucking idea how it feels not knowing if
you'll survive the next 30 seconds.

Neither the OP nor my brother partook of the services in a war zone.
The were on R&R-rest and relaxation. In my brother's case, that was
Hong Kong where, at that time prostitution was legal.

I absolutely don't excuse rape, which happens all too often in a war
zone. In the case of the US military, that is dealt with very harshly.

In any case, how is the soldier supposed to know?

I pray that neither you nor I ever experience what the OP and my
brother did. But unless we do, I choose to STFU.

MattBaggins

(7,894 posts)
134. I did serve
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:12 AM
Jan 2012

Being afraid for my life didn't give me card blanche to kill innocents, rob people, torture them or any other number of criminal activities.

It also didn't give me an excuse to abuse women.

JVS

(61,935 posts)
129. It's the fundamental building block in our country's unwillingness to prosecute war crimes
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:57 PM
Jan 2012

Germany was an extremely duty conscious society. This resulted in a justification based on "Just following orders"
The USSR justified the actions of their soldiers in WWII based on individual privation and need for revenge.
In the US we already had plenty of people willing to renounce duty in the form of protest, conscientious objection, and draft evasion. Also, US soldiers have generally enjoyed material conditions better than their opponents as well as very favorable kill ratios. But we do have a tradition of being judged by our peers, so that is glommed onto and used to silence those who object to excesses.

 

FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
111. You didn't do anything I didn't do - and they spoke english
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:11 PM
Jan 2012

So yes - they were some one of the opposite sex that you could talk to - amongst other things

 

NightTemplar

(49 posts)
116. I've never met a prostitute...
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:41 PM
Jan 2012

but I have known a stripper who performed "private shows"... and NOTHING in the world could have made her give it up. She made 3-5k per week while her girlfriends were making $300-400 per week. She loved it, she had a load of cash on her at all times. She had a great apartment and was always helping her friends.

So in her case... I think it's more likely SHE was the one doing the abusing lol.

 

unionworks

(3,574 posts)
117. None of my friends died in Vietnam
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:43 PM
Jan 2012

...they died years after coming home, from heroin addiction, suicide, agent orange poisoning, PTSD related mental problems, drinking themselves to death. The average age of the American GI was 19. I cannot believe there are as many ignoramuses on DU as I have seen on this thread. I have 4 or 5 friends who would set you straight if they were still alive.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
136. Set him straight?
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 11:24 AM
Jan 2012

On edit: I'm not quite sure that I understand your post. Just what do you mean by setting the OP straight?

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
142. You did. Much thanks.
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 12:20 PM
Jan 2012

The attacks, especially from people who could have no idea what it must be like, are utterly sickening. No one benefits from this kind of hysteria.

 

unionworks

(3,574 posts)
144. I thought the days
Thu Jan 12, 2012, 12:34 PM
Jan 2012

....of the left calling soldiers baby killers and worse was over. A nice long talk with John Kerry might be of benefit to them. Really don't pay them too much mind anyway, mostly they are trying to show off in front of their cliques.

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
120. Americans:
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:48 PM
Jan 2012

We have a unique ability to empathize more with the oppressor than the oppressed.

(paraphrasing a quote from a blog post I saw a couple years ago - by a nonAmerican - that I wasn't able to shake.)

 

unionworks

(3,574 posts)
124. O.K. 19 year old conscripts
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:22 PM
Jan 2012

...were "Oppressors". Sorry, not taking the bait. Welcome to ignore. You'll meet lots of like minded people there. It will keep you from feeling oppressed and lonely.

JVS

(61,935 posts)
121. Subjegate South East Asians while on duty, Subjegate South East Asians on leave.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 08:59 PM
Jan 2012

Yeah, that sounds totally legit.

 

unionworks

(3,574 posts)
123. I love this thread
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:15 PM
Jan 2012

I am finding out who the people are I really want to avoid. Welcome to ignore!

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
128. The devil is in the details.
Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:45 PM
Jan 2012

If you were culpably involved in the abuse of girls forced into prostitution (and I'm not saying you were), then obviously you should feel bad about what you did. You just say that you were sleeping with prostitutes, something that I don't think is inherently wrong. So I will assume that they gave you their free and informed consent, and that you behaved admirably in every respect.

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