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Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:39 PM

WTH just happened?

I was excited because it seemed like they were going to call witnesses, two hours ago, and Iím busy and I come back and they are NOT putting witnesses?

They are giving the Republicans an OUT!

Without conviction, Trump can come back and claim the presidency for himself in four years! His minions will rig the hell out of the election system in swing states!

Weíd better hope that Trump doesnít manage to intimidate courts and anyone else trying to convict him within the next four years.

Heck, I may even be optimistic that Trump wonít do a coup some time within the next four years.

And if Trump gets power again, he will exact much more revenge, including on Democrats and Blue States.

And the biggest losers will be the vulnerable, and minorities, like they were in the past year with the coronavirus. And I happen to be a minority as well.

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Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply WTH just happened? (Original post)
DSandra Feb 13 OP
sfstaxprep Feb 13 #1
mobeau69 Feb 13 #2
BumRushDaShow Feb 13 #3
DSandra Feb 13 #7
BumRushDaShow Feb 13 #14
SharonClark Feb 13 #28
brooklynite Feb 13 #31
Hermit-The-Prog Feb 13 #36
soothsayer Feb 13 #4
bearsfootball516 Feb 13 #5
BGBD Feb 13 #6
DSandra Feb 13 #17
BGBD Feb 13 #37
DSandra Feb 13 #38
AmyStrange Feb 13 #8
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 13 #9
fishwax Feb 13 #10
DSandra Feb 13 #20
StarfishSaver Feb 13 #26
DSandra Feb 13 #27
StarfishSaver Feb 13 #32
qazplm135 Feb 13 #11
Hortensis Feb 13 #12
greymattermom Feb 13 #13
StarryNite Feb 13 #23
dem4decades Feb 13 #15
2naSalit Feb 13 #16
Arazi Feb 13 #21
Demsrule86 Feb 13 #34
Arazi Feb 13 #35
Demsrule86 Feb 13 #33
lame54 Feb 13 #18
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 13 #19
DSandra Feb 13 #24
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 13 #30
SharonClark Feb 13 #22
StarfishSaver Feb 13 #29
StarfishSaver Feb 13 #25
rockfordfile Feb 13 #39
DSandra Feb 13 #40

Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:40 PM

1. I'm Sure Someone More Optimistic Than Myself Will Give You Something Positive To Look Forward To nt

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:41 PM

2. I was like that at first. Nt

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:42 PM

3. The witness they were going to bring in

indicated she would only testify what was already put out there so they took her reported statement, that was stipulated by the defense, and included it in the record. It was still pretty damning and goes on to prove the intent/frame of mind in the argument about who was fomenting an insurrection.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:43 PM

7. Part of the impact is emotional, and I can't understand how it would have the same emotional impact

Someone else reading a statement is not going to have as much impact as the actual personís testimony.

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Response to DSandra (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:52 PM

14. There are audio clips of her describing what happened

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Response to DSandra (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:08 PM

28. Impact on who? You? Dems?

Not repugs. They either arenít paying attention or think the Dems are lying. You can present the truth to them over and over and they wonít come around to accepting it.

The house managers did their job of documenting trumpís behavior on January 6. Thatís a win for our side.

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Response to DSandra (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:13 PM

31. Are you under the impression that the nation is riveted to their TVs waiting for witnesses?

The opening day of the trial had 11 m viewers...or 3% of the population. Most people will learn about the trial activities on the news or in their paper. A live witness vs a witness statement will have no difference in terms of impact.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #31)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:46 PM

36. People tune in for witnesses, just like it's an episode of Perry Mason.

Each person watching will tell others. Don't discount the snowball effect of witness testimony. It likely would not affect anyone in the cult, including Senators, but it can affect voters.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:42 PM

4. Well, many reasons. Here are two

1) they seemed to only want to call the person whose statement instead was read into the record (so: win)

2) some danger in calling witnesses when you donít know 100% what theyíre gonna say

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:42 PM

5. Trump wasn't going to get convicted, even with witnesses.

Don't get me wrong, I would have loved to have seen them. But it wasn't happening.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:42 PM

6. How

Are they going to rig the elections in swing states and how will he "do a coup?"

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Response to BGBD (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:55 PM

17. They are already starting

ďArizona GOP lawmaker introduces bill to give Legislature power to toss out election resultsĒ

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/arizona-gop-lawmaker-introduces-bill-give-legislature-power-toss-out-n1256097

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Response to DSandra (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:18 PM

37. And how successful

Will that effort be? My guess is not at all.

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Response to BGBD (Reply #37)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:38 PM

38. Would you bet on that?

Paupers have been made by people betting that Republicans wonít go lower...

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:43 PM

8. +100000000000000000000000000000000 x 2

 

-

Thank you.
==========

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:43 PM

9. "Without conviction."

There would never have beeen one in this venue.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:44 PM

10. I think an important thing to remember is that republicans had an out already

it may or may not have been advantageous to call witnesses. I don't know. I can see some advantages and some disadvantages, but I'm going to have to trust the House Managers and the Senate Dem leadership on this one because (a) they've done a great job so far and (b) they have expertise and information that I don't.

Either way, though, they didn't hand the republicans an out by not calling witnesses. The republicans had that out anyway. They weren't going to vote to convict, no matter how many witnesses democrats called.

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Response to fishwax (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:57 PM

20. It more easily allows them to not look like monsters and supporters of a madman if they dont convict

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Response to DSandra (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:03 PM

26. No, it doesn't

Having a congresswoman no one heard of testify in person in a week or two about a conversation she heard about wasn't going to do anything to stop Republicans from looking like monsters or supporters of a madman if they don't convict him.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #26)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:06 PM

27. What about Kevin McCarthy and Tommy Tuberville?

Republicans listen better to their own than to Dems who they see as the enemy.

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Response to DSandra (Reply #27)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:20 PM

32. That would have been a mess

First, it would have taken weeks for them to testify - they'd have to be subpoenaed, which they'd fight. And then they'd have to be deposed and then finally come in to testify.

And they'd be hostile witnesses. They would not just come in and give the House managers the information they wanted. They would have been difficult, evasive, combative. And then defense counsel would have had an opportunity to rehabilitate them.

They would not have been good witnesses for the Democrats at all. And their information, while helpful, was not critical to the case - they would not have switched a single Republican from acquit to convict. And any information they did have that could have been helpful to the Democrats case was already put into the record through Herrera-Butler's statements entered today.

And that also would have opened the door for the defense counsel to bring in witnesses, which would have been a whole nother mess.

Trying to make them witnesses would have been a mistake. The House managers are too smart for that.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:45 PM

11. conviction?

you think a conviction was ever remotely possible?

If his minions couldn't rig it while he was in charge, why do you think they will rig it when he's out of power?

He's not Lex Luthor.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:52 PM

12. There was NO chance of conviction. Never. At any point.

We are hoping to peel a couple/few more off, sure. Unlikely, but not impossible until it is.

DSandra, in addition to the ongoing, very real concerns about being primaried in a little over a year if they offend Trump, at this point every one of them is now afraid assassins might come after him and possibly his family -- if he offends Trump.

They all saw Trump deliberately, lethally denounce his VP to a murderous mob and what happened then. That noose is probably burned in their brains.


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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:52 PM

13. Some strong women in Georgia

will save the day. Again.

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:59 PM

23. That's my hope.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:53 PM

15. Trump walks, as he always was. Biden gets to move his agenda.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:54 PM

16. Also backlash from Dems.

From what PBS was saying.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:57 PM

21. Yup. Schumer got played again. We really need a new Senate leader 🤬

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Response to Arazi (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:34 PM

34. That is untrue...and Schumer is not a House member. The House managers made the decision...you

should consider deleting this post.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #34)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:41 PM

35. The negotiations about calling witnesses included threats to Senate operations, bills, and noms

Schumer was 100% involved in this, so was McConnell. The Senate is on vacation next week! They're not doing any work next week anyway so there was no reason to rush and every incentive to play it out. Trump's lawyers are WALKING AWAY after today.

They should have stood firm and gotten... something. The defense is now entering into the record that Herrera Beutler's statement is a lie. So we got nothing

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:33 PM

33. So what? If they can't see it is more important to get our agenda through than I don't know what

to say to them...always these folks want to tilt at windmills...Unemployment runs out in March...history will be written about this for years...but I worry about the near future and the chance that these fascists could use our calling witnesses to drag out the process and muddy the water to get back in power...we must not disappoint the American people who are in desperate need right now.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:56 PM

18. Witnesses would not equal conviction

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:57 PM

19. My two cents for what it's worth.


The MAGATS were never going to convict their GOD-EMPEROR. That was never the point of the trial. The goal of the trial was to dirty up Trump and his supporters and separate them from everybody else. Witnesses would have served that goal.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:00 PM

24. Trump's lawyers yesterday equated the news reports to hearsay

Witnesses are an opportunity to refute that and prove as good as in a regular courtroom what they said.

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Response to DSandra (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:09 PM

30. It is what it is, I guess. We all have to choose the hills we die on.

I would have preferred witnesses. Folks who are closer to the action felt otherwise. A legitimate fear is some of them might have lied or obfuscated out of loyalty to the orange menace.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:58 PM

22. There was never going to be a conviction.

The house managers put everything they wanted in the historical record. Witnesses arenít needed and would add nothing to what has already be said, in fact, it might afford the repugs an opportunity to mount the shit storm their supporters would like the impeachment trial to be.

I think the Dems know what theyíre doing.

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Response to SharonClark (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:09 PM

29. As I said in another OP

just as in the first impeachment, some people here conveniently forget that conviction was never going to happen, but but second guess every move by the impeachment managers as if something they did or didn't do somehow resulted in Trump not being convicted - as if conviction was ever a possibility.

Unfortunately, despite people trying to explain the detail and reality (not to mention the downsides) of live witnesses in this case, some folk here got all worked up and excited about the possibility of live witnesses, believing that this would be a game-changer. And when that didn't happen, they're retreating right back into "Democrats CAVED/ are WEAK/SCREWED UP" default because they didn't do something that wouldn't have changed the outcome.

It's sadly all too typical.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 04:00 PM

25. They got the information they needed into the record without Trump objecting

The purpose was to get information into the record about the phone call. They accomplished that. Getting Trump to stand down and not object, thereby essentially admitting to the truth of her statement, was a bonus.

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Response to DSandra (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:41 PM

39. trump will never be elected again

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Response to rockfordfile (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:44 PM

40. Tell that to the state legislatures that will pass bills making it much harder for...

A democratic candidate to win their state. After all, the electoral college is about states voting, not individual people.

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