So in life's vaccine priority.

[OAITW r.2.0]

I'm 2 months away....no problems, live in a great place and plenty more need to get the vaccine before me. Isolation is my default reality.

[questionseverything]

1. Just remember

Everyone that gets vaccinated before you can not give it to you (or at least the chances are greatly diminished)

I am probably two months away also

[Ms. Toad]

2. There is very little data to support that.

We hope it works like that, but there isn't evidence to support it yet.

[questionseverything]

5. If the vaccine keeps you from getting it

How could you give it to someone else?

And if it doesn’t keep you from getting it, what’s the point?

[tblue37]

7. It prevents severe cases and death.

[questionseverything]

14. 95% effective in preventing any covid, even higher in preventing severe covid

Will assessments provide information about how well vaccines protect against less severe COVID-19 illness?
Yes. CDC will use case-control studies to assess how well COVID-19 vaccines protect people against less severe forms of COVID-19 – for example, people with COVID-19 who need to visit a doctor but don’t need to be hospitalized.

Will the assessments try to find out if the vaccines protect people from all kinds of infections with the virus that causes COVID-19, including those with no symptoms?

Yes. Some people can be infected with or “carry” the virus that causes COVID-19 but not feel sick or have any symptoms. Experts call this asymptomatic infection. It is important to know whether COVID-19 vaccines can help reduce the number of people that have asymptomatic infection as these people can unknowingly spread the virus to others.

A special type of cohort study will try to answer this question. People who agree to participate will be tested for COVID-19 every week, whether they have symptoms or not. Experts will then compare the proportion of people with infection who were vaccinated to the proportion of people with infection who were not vaccinated.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness.html

it does take a couple weeks after the second shot to be totally effective but I did say greatly diminishes the chances

[Bettie]

17. So, I am stuck in the house and wearing a mask

everywhere for-fucking-ever?

OMG. I am so tired of this. I do all the things, but it is getting to me.

I don't do anything, I don't go anywhere, tonight I went to the grocery store for a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread and it was the most exciting outing I've had in months.

I am going to lose it if I have to spend the rest of my life like this.

[Ms. Toad]

11. It has been demonstrated to significantly reduce severe infections -

It does not necessarily prevent you from getting it, from having an asymptomatic (or low-symptom) case :

E.g.

Moderna’s COVID-19 vaccine is an mRNA vaccine that has been shown to be highly effective in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 disease.

https://www.idsociety.org/covid-19-real-time-learning-network/vaccines/moderna-covid-19-vaccine/

Currently asymptomatic transmission is one of the main ways it is transmitted - and the vaccine prevents symptomatic disease (not necessarily asymptomatic).

The hope is that it actually prevents contracting the disease (which should also and prevent transmission), but we don't have data on that yet. Especially since these vaccines do not work the same way as traditional vaccines, we just don't know. (That's the same hope as to actual infections - we hope having it once will prevent future infection (and transmission)) But we don't know yet.

[riversedge]

16. very informative summary. Thanks. I just got my first Moderna vaccine dose yesterday.

[questionseverything]

18. more from the cdc

COVID-19 vaccination will help keep you from getting COVID-19
●All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States have been shown to be highly effective at preventing COVID-19. Learn more about the different COVID-19 vaccines.
●All COVID-19 vaccines that are in development are being carefully evaluated in clinical trials and will be authorized or approved only if they make it substantially less likely you’ll get COVID-19. Learn more about how federal partners are ensuring COVID-19 vaccines work.
●Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a COVID-19 vaccine may also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19.
●Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, particularly people at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.
●Experts continue to conduct more studies about the effect of COVID-19 vaccination on severity of illness from COVID-19, as well as its ability to keep people from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19.

[Ms. Toad]

29. From the article just published in the Lancet

Overall, there were 170 SARS-CoV-2 infections among HCWs in the period between Dec 19, 2020, and Jan 24, 2021, of which 99 (58%) HCWs reported symptoms and were designated as COVID-19 cases.

. . .

Data on vaccine efficacy in preventing asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection are scarce, and our results of rate reductions in SARS-CoV-2 infections, which include asymptomatic HCWs, need further validation through active surveillance and sampling of vaccinated people and unvaccinated controls to ascertain the actual reduction of asymptomatic infection in vaccinated individuals.

https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2821%2900448-7

The language used in documents for public consumption are not precise (and a lot of the language you quote is also prospective, rather than a declaration of what is known).

Even the language in the Lancet is less precise than it should be, but the first paragraph I quoted distinguished between SARS-CoV2 infections (i.e. positive tests) and COVID-19 cases (i.e. symptomatic cases). Most of the data comes from symptomatic cases - as indicated in the last paragraph quoted. Much of the transmission comes from asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic infections.

[questionseverything]

31. are you saying that the vaccination process doesnt stop the spread at all? or that it hasnt been

proven?

[Ms. Toad]

33. It hasn't been proven -

(same for having had the infection).

Because of the compressed timeline, the fact that the vaccine works by a very different mechanism than any other mechanism we've ever had, the fact that we don't even know if antibodies produced by having an infection prevent subsequent infections (or how long they last), and the definition that at least some studies used for their studies (symptomatic infection), there's just a whole lot we don't know.

My guess is that it prevents both asymptomatic infection and transmission. But the data just isn't there yet to prove it - and given how disastrous it woud be to assume it prevents asymptomatic infection and transmission, better safe than sorry.

[questionseverything]

43. I just read something and thought of you

I don’t know how to post a link on my phone but

Vox.com

The growing evidence that COVID-19 vaccines reduce transmission

Sounds like good news

[Ms. Toad]

44. Thanks -

The UK study referenced is extremely good news. It includes the first systematic PCR testing that is unrelated to symptoms. Asymptomatic cases were reduced - previous studies defined cases as symptomatic. Since a large part of the transmission is when people are pre/asymptomatic, it wasn't clear that the vaccine would prevent transmission.

So - it's small - but it does expressly address the open question: Does the vaccine just prevent the harsh consequences of the disease or does it prevent the disease itself. That small study suggests the latter - which is a good proxy for transmission.

[MyMission]

15. You can harbor the virus without getting sick

After you are vaccinated; the same as folks who have not been vaccinated can harbor and spread the virus to others. Once "everyone" is vaccinated, the virus can spread but we will be protected from it's harmful effects.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/yes-you-should-still-wear-mask-after-covid-19-vaccination-180977054/
In the push to get a vaccine approved for emergency use as quickly as possible, other effects of the vaccines were left untested. Scientists must test a smaller pool of people with greater frequency to understand how the virus travels between people after vaccination—an effort that became secondary to studying vaccine safety and efficacy.

“We design the trials to determine how we reduce the disease burden and keep people from progressing to hospitalization and death and being on a ventilator—that was and I think, still is, the first primary purpose of developing a vaccine,” says Larry Corey, co-director of the Covid-19 Prevention Network, a group formed in part by the National Institutes of Health to address the need for vaccines.

"You’re self-protected, but you still could be a danger to other people, especially if you start using behavioral disinhibition, saying, ‘I'm vaccinated, I'm invulnerable’,” Corey says. “You could acquire Covid and it will be silent, and then you can infect a bunch of people who are not as lucky as you to be vaccinated at this point in time.”

I'm probably not going to be eligible until the summer. I am double masking, to protect myself from new variants, and to protect myself from the people who are vaccinated but might still spread it. Also taking extra vitamin D to boost my immune system.

[questionseverything]

22. read post 14 and 18 from the cdc

I understand nothing is 100% guaranteed but as I said from the beginning....the chances of a vaccinated person getting and spreading covid are greatly diminished

and we are going to have to watch the variants closely but I prefer to be positive and think all of this is getting us closer to herd immunity w/o all the deaths and long term problems

[MyMission]

30. I read those posts, and they are not conclusive

With regard to spreading the virus. Those vaccinated are protected; those of us not yet vaccinated must remain cautious and diligent.

I was answering your question about how someone vaccinated could spread the virus, and how It is possible.

They are doing studies on this, and now also studying the transmission of new strains. This is a new type of vaccine, unlike other vaccines, and it was developed quickly so they need longitudinal data, which takes time. (I have advanced degrees in applied research.)

As you said, The chances of a vaccinated person getting sick is greatly diminished, but they do not have enough data to determine if a vaccinated person can spread the virus. Asymptomatic people can and do harbor and spread the virus. The vaccine makes you asymptomatic if you are exposed, therefore you might still be able to spread it.

The point of the article from the Smithsonian was that they developed the vaccine to protect the vaccinated person from developing symptoms or serious symptoms, but didn't evaluate if a vaccinated person could still spread the virus.

Since I am under 60 and work in a non-essential capacity, I am not eligible for the vaccine yet.
If you are vaccinated and therefore protected from getting sick, my understanding is that you might still harbor the virus and infect those who are not yet vaccinated. They don't know, so I feel it's better to be safe as possible. Wearing a mask after you are vaccinated, or when in contact with vaccinated people, has been recommended because they don't know (unless you are socializing with others who have also been vaccinated.)

We are getting closer to herd immunity, but still many months away. Those that have gotten the vaccine are feeling relieved, as they should. But those of us waiting for it can't afford to let our guard down, even with those who have been vaccinated. Question everything! Lol

[questionseverything]

32. i realize we are a long way off, i was just trying to be positive

with only 4% vaccinated our new cases are way down

goal is 75% plus

[OAITW r.2.0]

4. So many more need and deserve before me.

Best to be old and stay isolated....

[Blue_true]

3. With the chaos of DeSantis in Florida, I have no idea.

President Biden opened federal sites in five of the state’s biggest population centers, but I live in none of them.

I ordered a batch of N95 masks tonight from an approved USA company. I have been cautious so far, I believe that I can wait until the Biden administration gets the Florida mess straightened out.

[OAITW r.2.0]

6. A year ago, I spent a magical 8 days in Fort Meyers, on the island. Enjoyed hanging at Fenway Park

South....what a blast. Flew back to Boston and then, the world ended.....

[Blue_true]

10. Those were great times. Hopefully we get them back now that we have

a competent President.

[OAITW r.2.0]

13. Amen...I see the difference....and everyone is going to be amazed as to what can happen

when you have a competent President leading the way. It's going to be happening....continuously.

[Blue_true]

19. We should never have lost nearly the people that we have lost.

And we should have led the world out of this crisis months ago. All it took was a competent American President who was not hurling xenophobic insults left and right, and handcuffing scientists and researchers.

[OAITW r.2.0]

23. What's the price to pay when you are President and your actions added 300,000

Americans to the Covid-10 pandemic?

[Blue_true]

24. It was around 440,000 when Joe took office.

I believe that History will record Trump as an idiot and self-serving failure. He isn’t remotely close to the most brutal people that lived, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Mao, Attila the Hun, make Trump look like a choirboy.

[OAITW r.2.0]

25. Is that our measurement now? He only added destroyed 300,000 American lives

not 5 million?

[Blue_true]

26. Maybe I am overly analytical about it, but Trump is among

history’s most incompetent and wannabe brutal figures, but he isn’t remotely among the bloodiest.

I believe that he is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands Americans and even part of the 1.5 million deaths worldwide. But his crime was hubris and stupidity. Unfortunately neither would stand up well in a trial of him at The Hague. Stalin was responsible for the deaths of an estimated 20 million people, but he died in his own bed.

I am not trying to defend Trump, I loath him with every fiber of my body.

[OAITW r.2.0]

27. Lets measure Trump in, say, the last 50 years.

Who killed more? He's in the top 10.

[Blue_true]

28. If you look at the last 50 years, yes. nt

[NJCher]

35. I know

It’s amazing how fast he turned that around, isn’t it?

I am a competency aficionado. I get a thrill like no other when I see competency kick into gear.

I think my last big competency thrill was Captain Sully.

Both he and Biden are reserved, even steely, about their accomplishments.

Competency! 🥰❤️😍

[Blue_true]

37. Yes. Competence and a desire for service to others is the mark of a good leader. nt

[live love laugh]

8. I'm really tired of the whining and complaining from the media about vaccines

The local news leads with a “story” of vaccines not being available on a daily basis.

Biden's basically operating blindly not having had anything near a regular transition.

I am thankful to have a great place to wait it out while trusting that he and his team will sort this all out.

I'll get it when I get it.

[CozyMystery]

9. I have cancer so priority 1-A, but

there is such a shortage here that they are only giving vaccines to people 65+. My oncologist is about to go nuts. Meanwhile, I have been out of the house only to get chemo, since early March (chemo since September). Every day, I check all the websites the PA Health Dept has up for our county, but no one has vaccines.

I figure all the chain groceries and drug stores are logically getting vaccines when they are located in much more populous areas.

I can be patient about this since my exposure is minimal. Believe it or not, since Biden took office, other patients in the cancer center have stopped pulling down their masks to yell about Trump ("Trump 2020&quot and have stopped sitting in the waiting room with their noses exposed. I had loud harsh words to say about that to them, since no one who worked there was hired to watch the rethugs. Managed to intimidate everyone into obeying me because besides my loud, harsh tone of voice, I was going to go further if they didn't. Or at least I looked like I was.

This area is rank with rethugs. The many who parked at the (nearly dead) mall to get on a bus to go to the DC Terrorism Event had their tires slashed when they got back. Which I thought was funny.

[OAITW r.2.0]

20. In rural Maine, the spell is broken.

Vast majority are wearing masks.

[NJCher]

39. here they were always good about wearing masks (NJ)

But one would sometimes encounter half-maskers. I would snap at them to wear their mask the right way. One guy even ran away from me when I told him to wear his damn mask right.

However, now all the half-maskers are wearing their masks the right way. I haven't seen a half-master in 3 weeks, I'll bet.

[OAITW r.2.0]

41. Back 6 months ago, there was a defiant minority in Central Me that did not wear masks.

Seems like reality has won out up here. Many more wear them and there is a lot less hostility about the issue.

[NJCher]

42. yeah, well

Twitter shut trump up, so that may have helped. Plus a new leader who models the ideal behavior.

Anyway, I am glad to hear you are getting better cooperation. My brother lives in an area that is trumpy and he won't even shop in grocery stores. He gets all home delivery. It is a pain because the delivery system isn't that good. It really does limit one's freedom when there is no compliance on mask wearing.

[NJCher]

36. You go girl

I would and have done the same.

I am sorry about the cancer.

[CozyMystery]

38. Thank you. nt

[misanthrope]

12. Wish I could say the same

I am high-risk, with genetic emphysema. Hay fever or head colds or flu has put me in the hospital on average once every two years.

I can't get a vaccine in Alabama. It doesn't look like one will be available anytime soon. Meanwhile, I see lots of younger, healthier people getting them. How?

I'll quote a columnist here:

"On December 20, a government committee of highly educated, mostly academic experts known as the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices voted about who should get the vaccine first. The committee has 15 voting members. Twelve of them are medical doctors. One is a lawyer. Nine—a majority—are affiliated with universities, including Stanford, Vanderbilt, Baylor, and the University of California, Los Angeles.

"Naturally, the committee of doctors decided that the first vaccines should go to healthcare workers. That might seem like common sense—emergency room or intensive care doctors treating Covid-19 patients deserve to be protected against the risk of catching the disease in the workplace. Healthcare workers, though, is a big, catchall category. It includes everyone from Beverly Hills plastic surgeons conducting elective cosmetic surgery to "administrative staff," which might be the billing clerk in the plastic surgery practice, or some hospital accounts-receivable bookkeeper or fundraiser with no patient contact."

I know of at least one medical librarian who got her shots like this.

"Educational sector support staff are next in phase 1b. That could include people who are currently working from home and who ordinarily have little or no direct contact with students—say, the employees who answer telephone questions about retired professors' pension benefits."

I know of educational staff who fit these descriptions.

"The next phase, 1c, encompasses the 'media' and 'law' categories. Like healthcare personnel, these groups are so broad that they include essential frontline workers but also some others whose prioritization is difficult to justify.

"Journalists covering the pandemic by doing on-the-scene reporting from nursing homes or hospital intensive care units probably do have a strong case to be vaccinated relatively early. So do criminal defense lawyers meeting clients in prisons or jails, or making frequent in-person courtroom appearances.

"The 'media' and 'law' categories, though, also include the copyeditors at Southern Living and the big-firm lawyers who rarely show up in court but spend their time instead writing memos and helping companies minimize their taxes. Their Covid-19 risk seems pretty small, or at least small enough that it's hard to see the rationale for those workers leapfrogging ahead" of high-risk individuals.

I know of bar members who barely work and do so out of their homes. They got vaccines. Same was true of judges' staff, paralegals, court clerks and other peripheral workers.

in the media, I've seen all sorts -- food critics, film critics, editors working from home -- get vaccines.

But people like me, who would die quickly if we got the vaccine? Nope.

In Alabama, I'm just a "useless eater."

[OAITW r.2.0]

21. Step ahead of me, please. nt

[hotrod0808]

34. I have no idea when I can get it

and work in a place full of people who wear their masks to get through the gate, then are done with them.

[tblue37]

40. I am eligible for the vaccine, but there are none available around here.

[MustLoveBeagles]

45. I have no idea when we'll be eligible

My husband and I went to Walgreens website and according the chart we are both in the 1C category. We're relatively young but we have comorbidities. We called them and asked if they were setting up appointments for that group yet and they said no and told us to keeping checking their website. So we're looking at a 2 month wait at minimum. I don't mind waiting. There are others that need it more than us right now.

[OAITW r.2.0]

47. I guess that was my point.

I am loooooow on the totem pole when it comes to the vaccine. My current life situation is (1) I am old and (2) I am isolated. I make 3 or 4 grocery store/walmart runs a month and double mask. That's my life and it would probably not be a whole lot different w/o Covid.

Many more need and deserve the vaccine before I do.

[BusyBeingBest]

46. Not yet eligible either, no special status, just a middle aged lady waiting for her turn.

I do go shopping/run errands etc., but I double-mask now--I find no real difference in comfort between a single disposable surgical type mask and two of them, so I wear two. I can't totally isolate anyway because my husband (partially-vaccinated) works in a large facility with hundreds of people, and my adult son visits occasionally for the weekend--who knows what they're carrying home, lol. I'm relying on masks, hand washing, and luck at this point.

[OAITW r.2.0]

48. Hang in there BBB!

Damn, wish you were my neighbor, we could have a couple of sociables!

[BusyBeingBest]

49. ...