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XanaDUer2

(10,327 posts)
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 09:23 PM Feb 2021

His Lights Stayed on During Texas' Storm. Now He Owes $16,752.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/us/texas-storm-electric-bills.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage


"My savings is gone,” said Scott Willoughby, a 63-year-old Army veteran who lives on Social Security payments in a Dallas suburb. He said he had nearly emptied his savings account so that he would be able to pay the $16,752 electric bill charged to his credit card — 70 times what he usually pays for all of his utilities combined. “There’s nothing I can do about it, but it’s broken me.”

Mr. Willoughby is among scores of Texans who have reported skyrocketing electric bills as the price of keeping lights on and refrigerators humming shot upward. For customers whose electricity prices are not fixed and are instead tied to the fluctuating wholesale price, the spikes have been astronomical.
74 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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His Lights Stayed on During Texas' Storm. Now He Owes $16,752. (Original Post) XanaDUer2 Feb 2021 OP
......and now, multigraincracker Feb 2021 #1
Yeeee Haaaa,... Free Market freedumb.... magicarpet Feb 2021 #2
In a week or 2 we should go FULL BLAST with adverts (TLP-style) that super glue the Rethugs to this. Celerity Feb 2021 #3
I've been blasting this to all my Facebook friends and acquaintances. Goodheart Feb 2021 #26
+10000000000000000 Celerity Feb 2021 #28
When your electricity comes from Monopolated Light and Power . . . Journeyman Feb 2021 #4
he should have refused to pay. drray23 Feb 2021 #5
I wouldn't pay it. Nt XanaDUer2 Feb 2021 #6
For a lot of victims, the money is already gone BeyondGeography Feb 2021 #8
you mean if they have autopay ? drray23 Feb 2021 #10
this is why autopay is a really, REALLY stupid idea Skittles Feb 2021 #71
If they had his credit card soldierant Feb 2021 #44
dispute the charges !!!!! Trueblue1968 Feb 2021 #66
Yes, that he can do soldierant Feb 2021 #68
Yes, there is probably something in the treestar Feb 2021 #67
Which may well have happened soldierant Feb 2021 #69
Who Gouged? ProfessorGAC Feb 2021 #70
This sounds like fun BeyondGeography Feb 2021 #7
Was that Griddy? Or "greedy"? Beartracks Feb 2021 #9
Griddy is charging customers what they paid for electricity. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #12
Ah, good point. But it was such an obvious pun! Beartracks Feb 2021 #15
It does seem appropriate. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #16
I think Griddy only has like 26,000 subscribers LeftInTX Feb 2021 #50
Yep, 29K. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #52
But Oncor is an actual provider/utility. Griddy is a broker LeftInTX Feb 2021 #54
a lot of them will go Skittles Feb 2021 #72
Maybe they bought it from Jerry Jones rpannier Feb 2021 #39
I'd be stroking out nt XanaDUer2 Feb 2021 #11
But the GOOD news is that he has FREEDOM from COMMUNIST OPPRESSION! brooklynite Feb 2021 #13
Freedom isn't free nt XanaDUer2 Feb 2021 #63
*snort* smirkymonkey Feb 2021 #73
The free market in all its glory! Laelth Feb 2021 #14
In this case, the problem isn't really the free market. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #17
That would be the free market rpannier Feb 2021 #41
true....but Skittles Feb 2021 #74
The government has to step in TheFarseer Feb 2021 #18
"Even Republicans know this is wrong." Doubtful. Merlot Feb 2021 #24
Republicanomics. moondust Feb 2021 #19
Of course that's the plan intrepidity Feb 2021 #60
People are dying, so of course greedy people are trying to make money off of that. tclambert Feb 2021 #20
I hope some solar power company with integrity can help these poor people. Maraya1969 Feb 2021 #21
It's really (personally) irresponsible to sign up for a utility like this, imo. RockRaven Feb 2021 #22
I'm kinda 50/50 on this one. A lot of people are in favor of no government regulation, MerryBlooms Feb 2021 #25
Apparently not the only one Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2021 #23
texass !! monkeyman1 Feb 2021 #27
Nice thought UpInArms Feb 2021 #34
I feel you. Yell at them all you want. ancianita Feb 2021 #36
i'm stunned this can even happen........ Takket Feb 2021 #29
texas makes it's own rules ! monkeyman1 Feb 2021 #31
Yes, seems criminal LymphocyteLover Feb 2021 #32
They are 29,000 Libertarian Texans LeftInTX Feb 2021 #55
This is what Texas and those people wanted. They chose to sign up with that company Autumn Feb 2021 #59
This is insane. yardwork Feb 2021 #30
Exactly. "The Corporation" proved that the bottom line mentality of corporations is pathological. ancianita Feb 2021 #40
From another DU thread UpInArms Feb 2021 #33
"Regulations" are "protections" SharonAnn Feb 2021 #57
Don't you just love the convenience of automatic monthly debits? snort Feb 2021 #35
Right. Good for you. I've never done electronic banking or bill paying. Keeping a paper trail ancianita Feb 2021 #49
Me too! XanaDUer2 Feb 2021 #58
It's even worse if it's on autopay tied to a credit card or your bank account. halfulglas Feb 2021 #37
You simply refuse to pay. (1) make copies of such ridiculous bills LuckyLib Feb 2021 #38
Good luck with that. ancianita Feb 2021 #43
they happily signed a contract, this was not forced on them. uncle ray Feb 2021 #62
But at least Texans don't have to deal with dflprincess Feb 2021 #42
Would this happen if Gavin Newsom was Recalled ? JI7 Feb 2021 #45
Griddy is based out of CA, so yes! LeftInTX Feb 2021 #56
I'm a capitalist and I'm here to help... twin_ghost Feb 2021 #46
Elect clowns, expect a circus.. AZ8theist Feb 2021 #47
Guess what they say is right, pazzyanne Feb 2021 #48
Texans have their hands full. nt oasis Feb 2021 #51
This is the Republican health care plan. MoonlitKnight Feb 2021 #53
People who signed up for this (Griddy) were probably thrilled intrepidity Feb 2021 #61
If only people in the government worked for this man...Socialism is bad RANDYWILDMAN Feb 2021 #64
Kick nt XanaDUer2 Feb 2021 #65

Celerity

(42,673 posts)
3. In a week or 2 we should go FULL BLAST with adverts (TLP-style) that super glue the Rethugs to this.
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 09:39 PM
Feb 2021

Rip their fucking guts out.

Goodheart

(5,264 posts)
26. I've been blasting this to all my Facebook friends and acquaintances.
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 10:51 PM
Feb 2021

The blame lies ENTIRELY upon Republican deregulation.

Journeyman

(15,001 posts)
4. When your electricity comes from Monopolated Light and Power . . .
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 09:42 PM
Feb 2021

you're pretty much screwed from the outset, let alone in the quick.

soldierant

(6,648 posts)
44. If they had his credit card
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 12:12 AM
Feb 2021

and he had that much available credit ...

Or, for that matter, if they had his checking account and he had overdraft protection ... which is what it sounds like, since he's saying he lost his savings.

soldierant

(6,648 posts)
68. Yes, that he can do
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 05:58 PM
Feb 2021

though it's easier if it's a credit card than if it's a bank account, but it still can be done.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
67. Yes, there is probably something in the
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 05:49 PM
Feb 2021

contract about how they can raise the price, and this seems likely to have crashed that. He never agreed to pay an amount like that, is a likely argument.

Unless everyone in the state signs onto a contract with unlimited price raise without notice possible.

soldierant

(6,648 posts)
69. Which may well have happened
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 06:00 PM
Feb 2021

Since the grid is Texas's pwn privatized grid. A few border towns, I gather, are not included in it.

ProfessorGAC

(64,427 posts)
70. Who Gouged?
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 06:11 PM
Feb 2021

That's the problem with their system. Inherently flawed.
Prices can explode without any willful attempt by the provider to manipulate prices.
They have a fully independent state grid and they tossed the energy all(!) onto the commodity markets.
When supply drops, there are hundreds of speculators looking to profit by bidding up, hoping the actual price exceeds the price they paid. Some make big bucks, some get killed.
There's no one person or company setting prices so there's nobody to blame.
The system was set up for a disaster like this.
I agree with your outrage. But, I don't think there's anybody to sue.
I also agree that he shouldn't pay it. At some point, providers need to assume the risk of using this business model.

BeyondGeography

(39,284 posts)
7. This sounds like fun
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 09:45 PM
Feb 2021
Katrina Tanner, a Griddy customer who lives in Nevada, Texas, said she had been charged $6,200 already this month, more than five times what she paid in all of 2020. She began using Griddy at a friend’s suggestion a couple of years ago and was pleased at the time with how simple it was to sign up.

As the storm rolled through during the past week, however, she kept opening the company’s app on her phone and seeing her bill “just rising, rising, rising,” Ms. Tanner said. Griddy was able to take the money she owed directly from her bank account, and she now has just $200 left. She suspects that she was only able to keep that much because her bank stopped Griddy from taking more.

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
12. Griddy is charging customers what they paid for electricity.
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 09:48 PM
Feb 2021

They're not the ones making the money. The companies they bought the energy from are the ones making the money.

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
16. It does seem appropriate.
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 10:02 PM
Feb 2021


Griddy is still at fault, however, as far as I'm concerned. Signing people up for variable-rate contracts like this should be a crime. Variable-rate mortgages were a primary driver in the housing crisis and were mostly done away with as a result. This is a perfect example of why. They're great when rates are low but catastrophic when there are short-term spikes like this week.

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
52. Yep, 29K.
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 12:44 AM
Feb 2021

Saw that in another article today. Their customers are the ones getting the big headlines "Texas man gets $8K bill" but they're only a tiny fraction of the total. Oncor, by comparison, has something like 3.8 million.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
14. The free market in all its glory!
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 09:56 PM
Feb 2021

I can’t feel sorry for these people. They were wrong yesterday, they’re wrong today, and, even when they get burnt by their beloved free market, they are likely to be wrong tomorrow.

Let them reap what they sow.

-Laelth

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
17. In this case, the problem isn't really the free market.
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 10:12 PM
Feb 2021

It's the contract. The vast majority of electricity contracts are either a fixed rate or an indexed rate with hard rate caps. Griddy offers contracts that are apparently infinitely variable and tied directly to the wholesale rate. Great when rates are low; catastrophic when there are short-term spikes.

Variable rate contracts were a primary driver in the housing crisis and this is a perfect example of why they were almost entirely eliminated. I'm not sure why this is even allowed anymore. Deregulation, probably.

Had he been on a traditional contract, his rate wouldn't have changed. It might have changed at contract renewal, but most larger providers deal with natural disasters as part of normal operations and plan and budget accordingly.

Skittles

(152,967 posts)
74. true....but
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 07:43 PM
Feb 2021

people who gambled on this tactic reasonably did not think of a bill going from, say 100 bucks to 17 thousand bucks.....that is just outrageous no matter what the circumstances

moondust

(19,917 posts)
19. Republicanomics.
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 10:22 PM
Feb 2021

Wouldn't be surprised if the GQP plan all along was to let private companies build flimsy utility systems to maximize profits for big shareholders and executives, then if those systems later fail let the federal gubment bail them out--again and again and again if necessary. Customers like Scott may have little choice but to pay whatever the scalpers charge because there are likely no competing utility companies to give them a choice and hold down prices.

Maraya1969

(22,441 posts)
21. I hope some solar power company with integrity can help these poor people.
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 10:26 PM
Feb 2021

I have no idea how they can but I hope they can figure out how to get these people out from the evil companies that are abusing them.

RockRaven

(14,784 posts)
22. It's really (personally) irresponsible to sign up for a utility like this, imo.
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 10:27 PM
Feb 2021

If you live in a place where the anti-regulation fetishists are in control, you have to be really fucking careful, and not just swallow every seemingly good deal hook, line, and sinker. There is ALWAYS a catch.

There are a lot of bad actors in this sad episode, none of which are these customers. But these customers served themselves up to the bad actors on a silver platter.

MerryBlooms

(11,728 posts)
25. I'm kinda 50/50 on this one. A lot of people are in favor of no government regulation,
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 10:48 PM
Feb 2021

that's why they vote the way they do... Until that no regulation voting bites them in the ass. Many who got bit in the ass this time around, will vote for the same punishment again next election. I have wondered for many years, why people vote for creeps who admit they hate government, admit they won't work with government and will do their best to screw up government. Yeah, I'm gonna vote for that guy/gal! The one who's gonna sell me down the sewer to line their own pockets, and screw as many of their constituents on the way as they can! And, I'm going to vote for that sombeetch until the day I die. Came close this time around... HaHa... Where's my votin' card, Mabel? I gotta teach these doggone libruls a lesson.

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(107,112 posts)
23. Apparently not the only one
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 10:35 PM
Feb 2021
Arlington man gets $17,000 electricity bill.

After an Arlington man was hit with a $17,000 electricity bill and other Texans received bills in the thousands, Gov. Greg Abbott will have an emergency meeting with top-state officials to address the issue, he announced Saturday.

-snip-

Currently, the electric company Griddy is under fire after its customers are reporting having bills in the thousands because of the winter storm conditions. The company charges customers a $9.99 monthly fee and the cost of spot power traded on Texas’ electric grid based on the time of day they use electricity.

Ty Williams of Arlington, a Griddy customer who didn’t lose electricity during the outages, was slapped with a $17,000 bill, KDFW reported. While DeAndre Upshaw of Dallas owed $5,000 to the company for his 900-square-foot, two-story townhouse, the Dallas Morning News reported.

Karen Cosby also had a $5,000 bill from Griddy, the DMN reported. Both Upshaw and Cosby are looking for a new provider.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arlington-man-gets-17-000-192823631.html
 

monkeyman1

(5,109 posts)
27. texass !!
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 10:53 PM
Feb 2021

I LIVED THERE FOR 8 YRS & GOT THE HELL OUT ! I THINK WE SHOULD LET MEXICO HAVE IT BACK . THAT WOULD BE A GOOD START. WANT TO DROP OUT OF THE UNION ANYWAY, JUST DON'T GIVE THE BENEFITS OF BEING PART OF THE U.S.. SEE HOW LONG THAT SHIT LAST'S . ALL THEY DO IS BITCH ANYWAY! GOT SO DAMN TIRED OF LISTENING TO IT ALL THE TIME . ABBOTT IS DUMBER THEN HELL . REPUBLICAN PARTY IS MONEY MOTIVATED & COULD CARE LESS ABOUT PEOPLE , NEED TO GET THAT CLEAR IN THEIR HEADS. NOBODY IN GOVERNMENT WANT'S TO SAY " I SCREWED UP ". BUT, NOW WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH BULLSHIT !! I SAY " WRONG " - NO WE DON'T ! NEED A WHOLE BUNCH OF RESIGNATIONS & MOVE FOWARD. END OF STATEMENT !!!!

UpInArms

(51,253 posts)
34. Nice thought
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 11:20 PM
Feb 2021

But I couldn’t read past your first few words .... CAPS LOCK IS VISUAL SHOUTING

Please lower your text

Takket

(21,425 posts)
29. i'm stunned this can even happen........
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 10:58 PM
Feb 2021

i live in Michigan and my energy company, DTE, has to propose rate increases to the state and have them approved, and i believe they only do that once a year. our rates don't fluctuate based on some open market demand.

how can Texas not have some sort of regulations in place to prevent things like this from happening? No one should have to pay a bill like that they cannot possibly anticipate and have no chance to stop? Is this all because they unregulated their power and let the "free market" set its own rate? If so, they are INSANE. But i'm sure, as rick perry said, they are all happy to not have "federal regulations" on their system. Pfffffffffffffft

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
59. This is what Texas and those people wanted. They chose to sign up with that company
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 09:52 AM
Feb 2021

because it was cheaper and easier. Til it wasn't. And Texans hate regulation. FREEDUMB!

ancianita

(35,816 posts)
40. Exactly. "The Corporation" proved that the bottom line mentality of corporations is pathological.
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 11:46 PM
Feb 2021

The entire nation must learn that the price of deregulation Republicans is their owners now putting their boots on the necks of Texas voters.

UpInArms

(51,253 posts)
33. From another DU thread
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 11:19 PM
Feb 2021
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15138350

There is no such thing as a “free” market in electricity. Electricity isn’t a bagel. You can’t skip it in the morning when the price goes berserk nor shop at another electricity store. The alternative to blackouts and price gouging is Democracy. Regulation is merely the enforcement of publicly voted rules to protect the public from economic overlords.

snort

(2,334 posts)
35. Don't you just love the convenience of automatic monthly debits?
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 11:27 PM
Feb 2021

No way no how uh uh never sorry nope. I'll face the huge inconvenience of logging in once a month and paying or, clutch pearls, writing a check.

ancianita

(35,816 posts)
49. Right. Good for you. I've never done electronic banking or bill paying. Keeping a paper trail
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 12:24 AM
Feb 2021

is time well spent. It is the upfront preventing of even more wasted time in resolving electronic 'error' disputes later.

Additionally, the only prevention of bank or vendor hacking is using the US mail, which makes any tampering of your checks, from you the payor to vendor, a federal offense. With the feds on your side, you've got legal leverage. Vendors and banks know this. No bank has ever refused me monthly paper statements and photos of canceled checks.

XanaDUer2

(10,327 posts)
58. Me too!
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 09:38 AM
Feb 2021

despite being pressured by the water utility, I refuse. You cannot pay online thru your bank, like I do other bills, so I mail a check quarterly. No auto draft bs

halfulglas

(1,654 posts)
37. It's even worse if it's on autopay tied to a credit card or your bank account.
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 11:42 PM
Feb 2021

It's hard to even contest it if they already have your money from the credit card. But I don't know how they know what their their bills so quickly. If I had a 16,000 utility bill billed to my credit card it would probably be declined. This is so tragic. Like the guy said on another post or site, it's free market if it's a bagel or something you can do without. But a utility you need to survive. Nothing you need to survive should be tied to "free market." Whatever the market will bear is free market. Something that is needed for survival should be publicly owned and operated.

LuckyLib

(6,814 posts)
38. You simply refuse to pay. (1) make copies of such ridiculous bills
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 11:45 PM
Feb 2021

and mail one to the governor’s office with a note attached that says “ I won’t pay this.
(2) stop all auto-pay at your back and notify your bank that you will be changing banks unless such outrageous charges are removed — get banks in on the inconvenience and outrage. If millions of Texans did active resistance, something would have to give. $$$ talks, even in Texas.

Our hearts go out to Texans struggling with an incompetent system. Oh, and no state income tax. The perfect storm in a natural disaster.

ancianita

(35,816 posts)
43. Good luck with that.
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 12:12 AM
Feb 2021

1. Maybe one out of 19 refineries and 24 electrical companies might give you a lower price, but are not likely in your delivery region; or more likely, this company you refuse to pay just shuts off all your power, and won't turn it back on until it garnishes your wages.
2. Banks are no one's friend. Changing banks does no good because no banker will agree in advance to reimburse you for your autopay vendors' bills.
3. Refineries and electrical companies and banks own your governor.

Customers don't have the same recourse with corporations that they might have with a government owned utility, except by paying as much or more in legal fees as they've been gouged already in electrical fees. That's the legal recourse that corporations know is no recourse.

uncle ray

(3,153 posts)
62. they happily signed a contract, this was not forced on them.
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 11:29 AM
Feb 2021

these people could have chosen to buy their electricity elsewhere. many less greedy people in Texax made much smarter choices given the options available.

i have sympathy for those who lost power. i do not for those who chose their supplier based on greed.

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
42. But at least Texans don't have to deal with
Sat Feb 20, 2021, 11:49 PM
Feb 2021

"burdensome regulation".


Though the whole situation in Texas merely proves my belief that another term for "deregulation" is "screw the consumer". Personally, I miss the days when the only way banks and airlines could compete was with customer service. And I'm glad I live in a state where the electric company is regulated by the Public Utilities Commission.

AZ8theist

(5,339 posts)
47. Elect clowns, expect a circus..
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 12:21 AM
Feb 2021

Texans can only blame themselves for continuing to vote Repuke.

Paxton? Abbott? LOUIE FUCKING GOHMERT?????

pazzyanne

(6,519 posts)
48. Guess what they say is right,
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 12:22 AM
Feb 2021

everything IS bigger in Texas. Those bills are freaking nuts! I'll never complain about a $62 light bill again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MoonlitKnight

(1,584 posts)
53. This is the Republican health care plan.
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 12:59 AM
Feb 2021

And every other deregulation/ free market plan they have.

While capitalism is the most efficient economic system, it can be cruel and unfair. That is why it must be tempered with regulations and oversight. Add a bit of socialism to smooth out the fluctuations and you retain most of the efficiency without the extreme ups and downs and negative impacts. Most Republicans fail to learn that lesson.

intrepidity

(7,241 posts)
61. People who signed up for this (Griddy) were probably thrilled
Sun Feb 21, 2021, 10:12 AM
Feb 2021

(perhaps even giddy) when spot prices meant they were paying less than their neighbors. They probably bragged about it, too.

So when the market turns, even due to natural disaster, why are they the victims now?

I'm just saying that if you buy something with a variable rate, you win some and you lose some, it's gambling.

Right?

(I know it's harsh to say, and I feel terrible for what Texans are going through right now, but unless fraud is involved, that's how it works)

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