Manchin: Even if the parliamentarian says wage hike ok w/ rules of reconciliation, I want 11, not 15

[Celerity]

and claims HE is compromising at $11/hour.

Link to tweet

Sen. Joe Manchin, a key Democratic swing vote, told me that he would try to amend the covid relief package with a federal minimum wage hike to $11 an hour, a move he argues will allow the party to get behind a compromise with many Dems pushing $15 hike

Manchin said that he would make that move if parliamentarian finds wage hike within rules of reconciliation. “I would amend it to $11," he said. "We can do $11 in two years and be in a better position than they're going to be with $15 in five years."

Link to tweet

The living wage for an adult with no children in West Virginia RIGHT NOW is almost $14/hour. By 2025 it will be well above $15. $11/hr is not enough for West Virginia or anywhere. $15/hr + a union is the bare minimum any worker in this country deserves.

https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/54

Link to tweet

NEW: The meeting between with the Senate parliamentarian, the Senate rules referee, about if the minimum wage can be included in COVID is slated for Wednesday, two Dem aides tell me.

A decision on min wage inclusion could come as early as Wednesday night or Thursday morning.

If the parliamentarian DOES rule for min wage inclusion, a Dem stand-off is brewing.

@SenSanders
suggests he’s unwilling to compromise. “We’re going to pass it as is."

@JoeManchinWV
told me he’s “compromising at $11/hour.”

He said there's 51 votes for $11/hr not for $15/hr

[Walleye]

1. I don't get it. It doesn't go up to $15 right away. Does it?

I still say he can get the $11 an hour if he wants in West Virginia and we can give the rest of the country 15. See how that goes over

[Celerity]

6. It is staggered out over 5 years so 2025/26 or so before the full 15 usd kicks in. Manchin is

gaslighting saying that people will be better off with it at 11 usd per hour by 2023 or so as it then STOPS (and look how long it took to raise it from the now 7.25, if it kicks in in 2022, then it took 13 years in between any raises.) Imagine if it took until 2035 or 2036 to raise it from 11 usd per hour.

7.25 usd in 2009 is only 5.45 or so usd in 2021 purchasing power. By 2025 or so, 11 usd will be worth less that 7.25 usd was in 2009 in terms of purchasing power, so people will be still screwed. Imagine how low that 11 usd would be in 2034/35, well under 6 (probably under 5) usd in terms of purchasing power versus what 7.25usd was in 2009, given current rates of inflation projected out. That doesn't even take into account things like healthcare, pharma, education, etc, which are exploding in cost far beyond the standard rate of inflation.

[dsc]

14. It is indexed to inflation so it wouldn't stop at $11

I do think he is wrong but he did agree to indexing.

[MichMan]

20. Any state can pass its own Min. Wage at any amount it desires now.

Dont need the Federal government to do it for them. Many states are already at $15 per hour. Nothing is stopping any of them from doing the same or even higher.

Interestingly, Vermont is just under $11.

[FBaggins]

34. No state has reached $15/hr yet

DC has that minimum, but no state yet. CA is scheduled to hit $14 next year for most employers.

[MichMan]

40. Some cities have, but my point still stands

[former9thward]

45. No. States can go over the federal minimum but never under.

[former9thward]

46. No.

That would be illegal under the Constitution. States can set a minimum wage over the federal minimum but never under it.

[MichMan]

48. No one is talking about lowering it.

Any state can raise it as high as it desires without the Federal governments passing anything.

[former9thward]

50. Except several posters have in this thread.

They have asked if WV can go to 11$ while the federal minimum goes to $15.

[MichMan]

51. Only if it gets raised to $11 and the other 49 states individually pass it at $15

Trying to explain to people that it doesn't require the Federal government to raise it.

[niyad]

2. Let us see. Assuming that Joe works 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, he still makes over 20

an hour. What an entitled prick.

[chocolatpi]

3. Sinema of Arizona is on my watch list.

I've told her she is not liberal enough for me.

[BradAllison]

29. Mark Kelly has none of these problems

And he's up sooner.

[Celerity]

33. Crazy trivia fact. IF Kelly were to lose (dog forbid) in 2022, then that seat, in only 53 months or

so, will have underwent 6 changes and 5 different people (and twice vacant) holding it.

[bullimiami]

4. I want manchin to take that 11.00/hr and live on only it for the next 6 years.

Bastard is being paid 80.00+/hr to be a senator and he’s worth 5 million.

Does anyone know where manchin got his 5 million?
He’s been in state or federal office for 40 years?

[Deuxcents]

8. Yes!

Exactly my thoughts reading this. Every one of these defenders of 8$ an hour should spend a month on that..and not be able to make any deposits from their resources..no health care or their benefits..straight up 8$ an hour for them n their family. Keep a journal on how they budget..what they feed their family n just how they make ends meet. Who will introduce this bill?

[Claire Oh Nette]

30. His constituents sure as hell want $15

One of the poorest states in the union.

Living wage is 13.

He can set it at $11 this year, then 12.25, then 13.50, then 15.00 in 2024, when he'll be up for election again.

He should stop the out of state owners from extracting quite so much wealth from his state. Maybe with some financial support, fewer of his state citizens would require SNAP benefits.

His state could use this help the most.

[ramblin_dave]

5. Can senators propose amendments that apply only to some states?

Example: Could Manchin propose $11 for WV or a group of senators propose less for a list of states? Is that possible or would that even work?

[Celerity]

7. I will admit that is beyond my knowledge. But he would be crazy to do that, as people on the VA/WV

border (for instance) would soon have minimum wages that were over 8,000 usd per annum MORE (full time) if they lived in a small town on the VA side instead of a small town right across the border in WV. The WV people would go bonkers.

[rgbecker]

17. Please explain Bonkers in this case...would the W. Va'ers be rushing over to get a job in Va?

Would the business people head to W. Va. to open branch stores?

Doubtful. Many different rates across the country now. The Federal increase would boost most states and really get the economy going. If most "Welfare" programs are tied to Federal programs, but states are allowing low wages, it the Federal government that is bailing all the low wage paying business people out. They are getting a huge subsidy on the taxpayers back.

[link:https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/minimum-wage-by-state|

[Celerity]

22. Bonkers as in raging, if a WV worker is making 8K usd per annum less than someone 100 kms

away in VA is, doing the same type of job maybe even same firm). All that because Manchin cut a deal to exempt his state from it.

[Claire Oh Nette]

31. along both borders

Those along the Ohio River would simply cross into Ohio to seek higher paying jobs. Or into Kentucky. Or Pennsylvania. He's screwing the entire region.

[Celerity]

32. I did not intend to imply it was only people on the border, just using it as an example

sorry for the confusion

[FakeNoose]

23. He's basing it on cost of living in West Virginia

He's wearing very narrow blinders, and he should just back out of this. The cost of living is higher in just about everywhere north, west, and east of his state.

A smart compromise would be to set up a map of cost-of-living correlation. The southern states grouped together, the mid-atlantic and northern states as another group. The midwestern states as a group, and the western states, with Alaska and Hawaii maybe treated separately.

This way percentages of cost-of-living could be applied to the groups and Manchin's southern group would be a lower percentage. (For example 80% of $15/hour). Whereas the midwestern states might be 90% of $15/hour. The northern and western states would be 100% of $15/hour. Alaska and Hawaii might be 110% of $15/hour.

If they do something like this it would be workable everywhere.

[MichMan]

25. Except any state can pass its own min. wage at whatever it desires.

They don't have to wait on the Federal government to do anything.

High cost of living states could pass $15, $20, or $25 tomorrow if they wanted to.

[machoneman]

36. True. In fact, $15 in NY City is joke. Same in San Francisco. $15 anywhere in Mississippi....

..is a true Godsend!

[Shrek]

37. Remember the Cornhusker Kickback?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tallying-the-health-care-bills-giveaways/

[former9thward]

49. No. It is unconstitutional.

States can go higher but never lower than the federal minimum.

[Fiendish Thingy]

9. Force a floor vote, force Manchin to choose to support Biden or kill the bill.

If Manchin kills the relief bill, his senate career is over.

[Corgigal]

10. I'm tired of hearing of his better ideas,

he can run for President next time, if he has all the answers.

[Generic Brad]

11. And this is a winning stance with WV voters?

No doubt this position is helping raise funds from his business donors, but it sure does not generate enthusiasm with voters.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

12. Ok. Try this.

All members of Congress have to clock in and clock out for the actual time they spend working on Congressional things, and they get whatever the current federal minimum wage is.

I'm sure they will have no trouble living on it, proving that no raise is needed.

[moose65]

13. Philosophical question here...

Is it better to get the minimum wage raised to $11, or to demand $15 and get nothing, so that it stays at $7.25?

Don’t get me wrong, I support $15 and more, but if we could get it raised to $11, wouldn’t that at least be moving us in the right direction?

[Celerity]

15. The cascading effects from a cave-in will be systemically ruinous. Most every Dem, including

the centre-left moderates, AND Biden himself, have campaigned on the 15 usd minimum wage. We will look impotent and disingenuous, all due to (atm) one Senator who cannot even explain how soon fucking his constituents over for 8K per year (4 usd per hour, fulltime) helps him to get re-elected (if he even is running) 4 years from now.

Also, atm, I put it (the philosophical question) into the false choice conundrum, as I still think (hope) Manchin will cave.

[moose65]

19. But what if he doesn't cave?

What if he stands his ground and the whole thing collapses? Wouldn’t that be ruinous as well?

[Celerity]

26. Long term, no, I do not think so.

[Wanderlust988]

28. It would be ruinous if the whole thing collapses

Why would voters flood the polls in 2022 if they feel like Dems aren't getting anything done? It would dampen our base. It's quite possible we lose the House next year. I'd rather take the $11 than let everything fall apart and don't get anything done for years and years again.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

16. Joe makes too much money, what $187.000 per year, he is so out of touch

it's not funny.

he should live on $11 an a hour for just 3 months, see if you can keep your head above water.

[Bucky]

18. I think he thinks he's protecting small businesses

And heck, maybe 11 dollars an hour is enough to live on in West Virginia.

there should definitely be something in tax policy that drives more business to Mom and Pop shops and makes it harder for the Big Boxes go to squeeze out the small firms.

[Wounded Bear]

21. So he's looking for a compromise in the $13 range...

Not a fan.

[Celerity]

27. No, he said 11 usd IS his compromise. I do not think he supports a raise at all, or maybe a token

raise to 8.25, 8.75 usd per hour or so, if he completely had his way.

[radius777]

24. Biden ran on a broad-based liberal agenda and won 81m votes.

Nobody voted for Manchin to control the agenda... this is why our system is so fucked up.

Time to send Kamala back into the state.. even the WV governor said he wants to 'go big' and supports Biden's stimulus as is (iirc).

We need to light stronger fires under the asses of these conservative Dems. Let the mayors, governors and residents of their states know that it is their senators standing in the way of desperately needed relief.

[OnDoutside]

39. Best thing is to make sure that Dems get AT LEAST an extra Senate seat in 22. Until then you deal

with what's in front of you, unfortunately.

[moose65]

41. You know, that's a good idea

What would be so bad if they accepted an increase to $11? Then they could run on being able to raise it even more, if we get more seats in the Senate to neuter Manchin.

Politics is a game of inches, not miles. This might be the only real chance we will have to raise the minimum wage. Raising it to $11 is certainly better than leaving it at $7.25.

[OnDoutside]

43. I'd let him own the $11, leave it at $11 for WV only and all the other states stay with the $15 plan

[moose65]

53. I don't think that's possible

Maybe call his bluff? Say "OK Joe. we will do $11 and index it to inflation." We will see then if Manchin really supports $11.

[JI7]

35. Can they make an exception for West Virginia ?

[OnDoutside]

38. That's my thought as well. If he wants to screw over the working poor of WV, and thinks that he will

benefit from that in his Senate re-election bid, off with him. Dreadful treatment of the working poor though.

[moose65]

42. He's not up for re-election till 2024

Whatever happens this year will be ancient history by then.

[dalton99a]

44. +1

[Johnny2X2X]

47. I see this is great news!

Manchin is open to negotiating. If he can come off that $11 to maybe $13 an hour I say we take it. Or maybe there's something more creative where states like WV can delay the $15 under certain conditions he's amicable to.

Bottom line is that we cannot let this Relief bill die on the hill of $15 an hour. I all he'll do is $11, take it, pass the bill, gain seats in the Senate in 2022 and hold the House and do $15 an hour or more in 2023 through reconciliation.

It's $7.25, going to $11 is significant and should not be turned down.

[Raftergirl]

52. My H thinks

the $15 min wage bit was put in so they had something to negotiate in the bill with Senators like Manchin - giving those Senators a win when they agree to a lower min. wage, with nothing else touched in the bill.
H works for Division of Budget in NYS and this is a common tactic when trying to get legislation passed.