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Sat Feb 27, 2021, 02:54 PM

 

Kamala Harris Could Deliver $15 Minimum Wage If Democrats Really Wanted It

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Now, Democrats have to choose between respecting some arcane Senate semi-rules and ensuring more than a million working Americans would no longer literally go hungry, and they seem, somehow, poised to pick the former.

There are multiple options available to Biden if he is truly committed to the idea that, as he said in his statement on the ruling, “no one in this country should work full time and live in poverty.”

For one thing, the president could just ask Kamala Harris, the president of the Senate, to overrule the parliamentarian. In fact, one former parliamentarian has said it’s entirely at the VP’s discretion to listen to MacDonough on a ruling like this one or not. And there is ample historical precedent for not listening to the parliamentarian — as Slate reports, “Vice President Hubert Humphrey routinely ignored his parliamentarian’s advice.”

[link:https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/democrats-15-dollar-minimum-wage-vp-harris-senate-1132695/|

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Reply Kamala Harris Could Deliver $15 Minimum Wage If Democrats Really Wanted It (Original post)
White Fox Feb 2021 OP
bottomofthehill Feb 2021 #1
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #15
still_one Feb 2021 #17
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #20
still_one Feb 2021 #24
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #26
still_one Feb 2021 #29
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #31
Miguelito Loveless Feb 2021 #61
mopinko Feb 2021 #59
Iliyah Feb 2021 #25
Miguelito Loveless Feb 2021 #60
FBaggins Feb 2021 #64
Miguelito Loveless Feb 2021 #67
rickyhall Feb 2021 #2
mcar Feb 2021 #3
NurseJackie Feb 2021 #5
PunkinPi Feb 2021 #6
grantcart Feb 2021 #8
mcar Feb 2021 #9
still_one Feb 2021 #18
hlthe2b Feb 2021 #11
betsuni Feb 2021 #68
tirebiter Feb 2021 #4
still_one Feb 2021 #22
Bonn1997 Feb 2021 #7
SCantiGOP Feb 2021 #10
still_one Feb 2021 #19
krawhitham Feb 2021 #44
Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2021 #12
SlogginThroughIt Feb 2021 #13
lapucelle Feb 2021 #14
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #21
lapucelle Feb 2021 #28
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #30
OnDoutside Feb 2021 #32
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #35
OnDoutside Feb 2021 #37
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #39
OnDoutside Feb 2021 #42
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #43
OnDoutside Feb 2021 #45
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #46
OnDoutside Feb 2021 #48
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #50
OnDoutside Feb 2021 #57
lapucelle Feb 2021 #33
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #36
BlueLucy Feb 2021 #53
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #54
BlueLucy Feb 2021 #58
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #62
Midnight Writer Feb 2021 #16
betsuni Feb 2021 #69
Celerity Feb 2021 #71
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #23
andym Feb 2021 #27
jorgevlorgan Feb 2021 #34
FBaggins Feb 2021 #38
Silent3 Feb 2021 #47
FBaggins Feb 2021 #63
Hortensis Feb 2021 #40
betsuni Feb 2021 #70
Trueblue1968 Feb 2021 #41
marie999 Feb 2021 #49
Still Sensible Feb 2021 #51
everyonematters Feb 2021 #52
msfiddlestix Feb 2021 #55
Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2021 #56
LetMyPeopleVote Feb 2021 #65
GulfCoast66 Feb 2021 #66
radius777 Feb 2021 #72
UTUSN Feb 2021 #73
LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2021 #74
FBaggins Mar 2021 #75
LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2021 #76
FBaggins Mar 2021 #77
Mr.Bill Mar 2021 #78

Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 02:56 PM

1. She can over rule it and then Manchin and Senema

Can and by their comments would sink the bill. By over ruling, it only leaves the 15 dollars in the bill but then the bill will not pass the Senate. The bill still needs 50 votes to pass. Plus the VP breaking the tie.

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Response to bottomofthehill (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:16 PM

15. Sinema and manchin will vote for it if it's in the bill

They just don't want it in the bill.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:31 PM

17. Really, because they have said just the opposite

""Arizona Senator Kyrsten Sinema, a moderate Democrat, has rejected inclusion of a $15 minimum wage in President Joe Biden's coronavirus stimulus package, dashing hopes for progressive lawmakers who are pushing for the raise.

Sinema joined Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, a fellow moderate from West Virginia, in publicly rebuking the idea that raising the minimum wage is appropriate amid the ongoing stimulus bill negotiations.

The Arizona senator made her views clear during an interview with Politico this week, in which she said would "not support" any provisions not directly related to providing immediate COVID-19 relief."

https://www.newsweek.com/kyrsten-sinema-joins-joe-manchin-rebuking-15-minimum-wage-eing-put-stimulus-dashing-1568931

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Response to still_one (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:32 PM

20. She did not say she wouldn't vote for the full bill

She said she doesn't want it in the bill, as confirmed by the article you just gave.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:39 PM

24. I wouldn't count on it. This is an absurd Rolling Stone speculation. Sanders ammendment

to reconciliation is the way the Democrats will approach this, and it has a very real chance of getting through




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Response to still_one (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:41 PM

26. Oh I agree. It isn't gonna be in the bill

(even if I disagree with some as to the "why" ).The tax provision is just as good as far as I'm concerned, if not better. And there would be no question as to how it effects the budget.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #26)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:43 PM

29. I agree, I think it is much better Jorge

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Response to still_one (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:46 PM

31. Absolutely

Fortune 1000 companies are keeping the wages low, they should be responsible for bringing them back up. It makes perfect sense to me. Also the fact this would kick in immediately as opposed to a five year step process would be sooo much better than a simple increase. I'm pretty jazzed and hoping it gets through.

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Response to still_one (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:34 PM

61. Saying you will vote against he COVID bill

and denying $1.9 trillion in relief is one thing, actually casting the vote and ending your political career is something else.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:29 PM

59. yeah, they are susan collins concerned.

i'm sure by now the cost of a no vote has been succinctly explained to both of them.

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Response to bottomofthehill (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:40 PM

25. agreed, but alas . ..

RWs talking points "blame everything on the Democrats" which takes the light off of republicans who in whole are against a minimum wage and COVID-19 relief.

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Response to bottomofthehill (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:33 PM

60. Then Manchin and Sinema get to own it

and they get to own sinking the entire COVID bill. I don't think they want that on their heads.I think they are bluffing. Siding with the Q Confederacy on this would be a career ending move.

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Response to Miguelito Loveless (Reply #60)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 08:38 PM

64. They aren't going to "sink" the entire COVID bill

There may not be a single Democratic senator who is willing to say that they won't vote for the relief without the minimum wage increase.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #64)

Sun Feb 28, 2021, 01:54 AM

67. My point exactly

The minimum wage SHOULD be in the bill, and Manchin & Sinema then either vote for it, or sink the entire bill and suffer the consequences.

Instead, they get to bluff and extort the Dems into removing it. If there is no minimum wage bill passed, we will suffer in ‘22. The people who gave the Dems the White House, Senate, and House will have been screwed and will not accept any lame ass excuse about parliamentarians, or disloyal senators.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 02:58 PM

2. It's passed time we moved into the 21st Century. 20 years passed, in fact.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 02:59 PM

3. This is hooey

Even if VP Harris did this, we still don't have the votes.

I've seen this on social media, too, by certain groups who seem to really, really want to smear our Vice President.

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Response to mcar (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:01 PM

5. True.

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Response to mcar (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:02 PM

6. +1 nt

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Response to mcar (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:05 PM

8. Low grade hooey

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Response to grantcart (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:08 PM

9. What's the level of hooey to malarkey?

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Response to mcar (Reply #9)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:31 PM

18. Excellent mcar!!!

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Response to mcar (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:12 PM

11. Yup... No matter how often this same thing is posted, without the votes, it is meaningless

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Response to mcar (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 28, 2021, 01:59 AM

68. +1

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:00 PM

4. Do Sinema and Manchin

Read Rolling Stone?

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Response to tirebiter (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:34 PM

22. LOL

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:03 PM

7. Could this partisan Supreme Court call the whole bill unconstitutional if

it has the minimum wage increase?

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Response to Bonn1997 (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:11 PM

10. Interesting question

but my guess would be that they would not intervene in a Senate rules issue.

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Response to Bonn1997 (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:32 PM

19. no

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Response to Bonn1997 (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:21 PM

44. Yes Yes Yes

Normally the Senate parliamentarian gives "advice" on whether a section of a bill is legal or not

Here the Senate parliamentarian is giving their "opinion" if this section of a bill passes the "byrd rule" or not, while it is called a "rule", the "byrd rule" is a LAW adopted in 1985 and amended in 1990

Overruling a parliamentarian does not suddenly make the section of the bill pass the "byrd rule". If the VP overrules the parliamentarian the GQP will just take the bill to court, and if the court agrees with the parliamentarian & GQP the court would at least strip out the $15 an hour but could throw the whole bill out


BTW
A VP has NEVER overruled a parliamentarian in a reconciliation bill. 1st time a reconciliation bill passed congress was the Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980, the last time a parliamentarian was overruled was in 1975 on a point of order issue, not legality issue.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:13 PM

12. I really hate headlines like this

I see headlines like this all over social media all of the time. *What* evidence is there that Democrats just don't want it? Unless the Democrats in the Senate have taken leave of their collective faculties and/or simply becoming cold blooded and heartless, there has got to be a good reason why they are doing/not doing something. Why aren't we asking that question instead of just automatically assume there is some kind of conspiracy involved or they don't want it, are ineffective, weak, etc.?

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:14 PM

13. Bullshit. More blame the woman crap.

 

This is some anti-woman propaganda.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:14 PM

14. No she couldn't. We won't have 50 votes for the covid relief bill with the $15 minimum wage in it.

It might all seem simple to a Rolling Stone staff writer advocating for firing or overruling an impartial parliamentarian as some easy fix, but the reality is very different.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:34 PM

21. We would likely actually have it

As manchin and sinema would be hard pressed not to actually support a stimulus. If they actually don't vote for it, they can simply take out the provision.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:42 PM

28. Fire/overrule the parliamentarian, maybe not have enough votes, take the provision out anyway...

... that would mean that Senate Democrats resorted to questionable Republican tactics and then still lost.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #28)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:43 PM

30. I don't think questionable tactics would be an issue.

But there would likely easily be the votes to reverse it, and any senator could force a vote, so it isn't gonna be in the bill either way.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:50 PM

32. You should really watch Lawrence O'Donnell's show last night,

then you will have far more information than you currently have. It's illuminating.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #32)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:53 PM

35. Agreed.

Does he think it wouldn't pass a full senate vote if the minimum wage is in the bill? I'll need to check him out more often. I've watched clips here and there but don't watch msnbc in general much. I am quite impressed with what I've seen of him, though.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #35)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:59 PM

37. Yes, he believes that there is already a better way to do this that

was used the last time the minimum wage was increased (in 2004 iirc), and that's to include it in a "Must Pass" Defense Bill. He said it got 80 votes and most of the 20 votes came from Democrats voting against the Defense Bill ! There will be another such Bill coming up this year.

If they are going to blow up the filibuster, make it when there really is no other way.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #37)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:00 PM

39. Very clever!

I don't disagree. Although for now I am quite impressed with Wydens provision which I see as a good shot to pass in this bill. But this provision put together with a future minimum wage hike would be incredible.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:15 PM

42. If Wyden's provision is acceptable to all 50 Dems, great. I think

they will find a way but if there is to be a massive fight that they need to keep their filibuster powder dry for, it's to pass S1 / HR1 & the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. After the Covid Relief bill, there is nothing more important to American Democracy, nothing. It simply must be passed.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #42)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:21 PM

43. Hopefully we just get the votes at some point to abolish the fillibuster.

This minority rule crap is b.s.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #43)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:29 PM

45. Where you had two sides displaying a certain amount of good faith,

it was livable, but McConnell has hastened its imminent demise for sure. The fear I have is that if it were to go, and the RWNJs slither back in...well be careful what you wish for in that situation. That's why S1 is so vital, and worth killing the filibuster for.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #45)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:33 PM

46. Ohhh absolutely. Especially with what arizona is doing.

Right now. Maybe Sinema will come to terms with it considering what is happening there.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #46)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:45 PM

48. Yes, she has a difficult line to walk but I am confident Pelosi knows

the score.

Actually I am really hopeful that the 2022 elections will be a lot better for Democrats that the 2020 downballot races. I think a lot of Republicans not only came out to vote for Trump and down the ballot, but a lot of Republicans came out to vote for Biden and then Republican down the ballot as well. It was a double whammy that won't be there next year, plus Covid under control, the economy flying, and unemployment way down. Even better if S1 passes Democrats just need to keep a cool head

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #48)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:54 PM

50. Not to mention down ballot Dems were largely hurt by the lack of in person field

Republicans knocked on doors because they don't car about infecting people. Dems largely didn't. I think that had a pretty resounding effect on our downballot races as a result. Something that we did not repeat in the Georgia races.

On edit to add: I think 2022 will be really different in this regard.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #50)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:28 PM

57. Yes that was a big error for sure. Add that to the list !

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:50 PM

33. I think it would be an issue with the press, and in their eyes Biden, Harris, and Schumer

would own both the charge of dubious ethics and the failure of the tactic.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #33)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:54 PM

36. I like to think the press wouldn't stoop that low.

Although the evidence is heavily against me in this regard...

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:20 PM

53. No they will not

Manchin is already pissed about being pushed. Why would we kill the filibuster for a bill we don't have 50 votes on? Manchin would likely have a meeting with Mitch McConnell, cut a deal, become a repuke and we lose the Senate.

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Response to BlueLucy (Reply #53)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:22 PM

54. He is not just being pushed by democrats.

But also his republican governor. It's a non issue though. Either way it isn't getting in the bill. The simpler reason being that even if Kamala overruled the parliamentarian, there would be a successful vote to reverse it.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #54)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:28 PM

58. We knew this 3 weeks ago.

People are hurting, Covid is killing folks. We need to get this relief out ASAP! Why are we holding back when we know it's not possible.

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Response to BlueLucy (Reply #58)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:39 PM

62. We need to try

People are hurting. Not just because of covid, but also poverty wages.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:27 PM

16. We could have a $15 minimum wage if even a handful of fucking Republicans would vote for it.

There, I fixed the headline.

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 28, 2021, 02:06 AM

69. +1

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 28, 2021, 02:38 AM

71. 12 is more than a handful.

It isn't going into the reconciliation bill, even if Manchin and Sinema said they would vote for it. Biden is not going to allow the parliamentarian to be overruled, and sub-zero chance Harris backstabs him and does it anyway.

Manchin and Sinema will not support a standalone bill for 15 usd AND it will be be filibustered (60 voted need for cloture).

So you will need 12 Rethugs to cross the aisle.

Never happening.

We will be super lucky to tuck an 11 usd rate (maybe even lowered to 10 usd and spread out over 3, not 2 years) into a Defence spending bill and dare the Rethugs to block it.

Our party is too divided to ram shit through. It is the price we all pay for having centrists or even centre-right conservatives (Manchin calls himself moderately conservative) as the only types who can get elected in pink/purple/red states.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:38 PM

23. If she did this, a vote will be forced overruling her.

That is the real problem. Not whether all democrats will vote for a stimulus bill that includes a minimum wage hike.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:41 PM

27. Manchin and Simena could stall the bill until the minimum wage was removed no matter what

and they have already announced opposition to the $15 minimum age-- so the measure is DOA in the Senate-- and it has nothing to do with Harris.

Moreover, there are probably even a greater number of senators who would refuse to go along with Harris overruling the parliamentarian, as a matter of respecting the Senate traditions.

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Response to andym (Reply #27)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:51 PM

34. I think the latter is more true than the former -as it would be easier.

But the former also has truth, I must concede. I don't think manchin and sinema would want to stake their reputations on obstructing more money to their constituents, though. I could easily be wrong of course. Either way, it isn't going in the bill.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:00 PM

38. Yet again with the mystical powers of the presiding officer?

Yes... the parliamentarian's role is advisory in nature and the presiding officer could rule differently - but the presiding officer's ruling is ALSO advisory - because the full senate decides questions of rules if a single senator asks for a ruling to be voted on.

Given how the parliamentarian ruled on the question - there isn't any reason to believe that Manchin/Sinema would both support Harris's ruling on the question if she were to override the parliamentarian.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #38)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:39 PM

47. Isn't it worth a try?

I hate the idea that things don't get voted on at all because a losing vote is possible, and no one wants to look bad losing.

The $15 minimum wage is important enough to fight harder for it, and put Manchin and Sinema on the spot if they're going to stand in they way.

It's certainly way to important to worry about appearances. Republicans wouldn't blink an eye if the shoe was on the other foot and they wanted to make a bill or a provision pass.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #47)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 08:35 PM

63. Votes aren't generally skipped because losing the vote is possible

They're generally skipped when the whip knows that the vote will fail and there's no significant benefit to expending the political capital.

Republicans wouldn't blink an eye if the shoe was on the other foot and they wanted to make a bill or a provision pass.

They would if they didn't have the votes.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:10 PM

40. Yet another calling out of Democrats out as callous, spineless hypocrites,

always electing lying corporatists? Us and the Republicans really just like Tweedledom and Tweedledee as we prove Senator Sanders right every day?

Guess I'd better add a sarcasm emoji if anyone's here who laps up this kind of agitprop. Don't want to have to disagree with someone happy to find a like mind. It's happened.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 28, 2021, 02:12 AM

70. +1000000000

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:12 PM

41. WE NEED THE 15 MIN WAGE!! CALL YOUR SENATORS NOW.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 04:49 PM

49. Biden said he would accept the parliament's ruling.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:03 PM

51. Bullshit!

She could, if she wanted to spend the political capital, overrule the parliamentarian. At that point, there would need to be at least two--and perhaps more--repug senators firmly prepared to vote for it. The vice president cannot simply will it to be passed.

As much as we want the minimum wage raised to $15, and it is very important, it is most critical to get the rest of this stimulus bill passed and signed into law!

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:06 PM

52. They could get $11.00/hr which is alot better than nothing.

Manchin has stated he would approve of $11.00. If I was Biden and the Democrats, that's what I would do, after making some noise about how the Republicans are blocking it. What it really comes down to is public opinion. This is popular and important enough to have Harris do it.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:26 PM

55. Sorry, but Harris would be facing the exact same issue that Biden is, probably worse.

Let's get real folks. Those rules are Jim Crow rules that the fifty Democratic Senators can't do freaking thing about, until it increases by 17 more Senators on our side.

Please let's not pretend otherwise. We have to take the Senate bigly. making a 2/3rds majority before we can make any significant changes.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 05:28 PM

56. Trashed for trying to trash VP Harris.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 09:26 PM

65. Not without support from Manchin and Sienema

Both have stated that they will not weaken the Byrd rule and so this effort would fail

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2021, 09:50 PM

66. Aren't you are the energizer bunny on this issue. Less than a week on DU and 2 bullshit post

Falsely trashing democrats. Joe on the other one and Harris on this one. At least you cover all the bases. At least 2 Democratic Senators have stated they will not support the increase.

And don’t even try the old ‘Biden should make them’ bullshit. Senators are not like representatives, especially those from red or purple states where weakening them means a republican senator.

We are not political novices here and understand the often frustrating realities of a tied Senate.

Oh, welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2021, 03:32 AM

72. This narrative was designed by the alt-left on social media to scapegoat Kamala.

She does not have 'superpowers' to do this, as others have noted, it would be overridden by the Senate, and then she (and Biden) would look like fools. Biden also ran on 'restoring normalcy' and going against the parlimentarian (who was appointed by Harry Reid and is well respected) just would look wrong.

And as noted, Manchin and Sinema would stall the bill until it was taken out. Manchin has been adamant that he won't vote on anything the parlimentarian disallowed, and if the parlimentarian had allowed it he would've only gone as high as $11/hr. Why get into this shit for $11 when we can (as Lawrence Odonnell who worked in the Senate noted) stuff it into a defense spending bill - same way we did to raise it to $7.75 back in 2009.

Manchin is a problem but he is in a deep red state, so it's difficult (but not impossible) to find a better conservative Dem to primary him. Sinema should be primaried as she's too conservative for a purple state. Somebody better like Rep. Ruben Gallego could defeat her in a primary and IMO easily win statewide.

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2021, 03:35 AM

73. Sez *who* - I voted against on this post

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Response to White Fox (Original post)

Sat Mar 6, 2021, 10:29 PM

74. No she cannot

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #74)

Sat Mar 6, 2021, 10:34 PM

75. This is true... but also a bit deceptive

The quoted statistic appears to measure the number of times that a VP has ignored the advice of the parliamentarian and then had the full senate override that decision.

But it ignores the "nuclear option" occurrences where the presiding officer ruled with the parliamentarian and then had the full senate override that ruling.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #75)

Sat Mar 6, 2021, 10:39 PM

76. I hate to break it to you but the votes for a nuclear option do not exist

We lack the votes in the Senate. On the Last Word s couple of nights ago, it was explained how that overriding the parliamentarian is meaningless unless you have the votes. If VP Harris overruled the Parliamentarian, McConnell would propose an amendment to strike the minimum wage and this vote would pass 52 to 48. We do not have the votes to pass this amendment right now in the real world

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #76)

Sat Mar 6, 2021, 11:23 PM

77. Of course not

It’s just a mistake to believe that there’s some structural roadblock to overriding the parliamentarian’s view on some rule.

It does happen... it just hasn’t happened through the VP. But that’s just because the VP is rarely involved.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #76)

Sat Mar 6, 2021, 11:34 PM

78. It would be easier and less risky

to fight this on a state-by-state basis.

It's already been done in a number of states. It would be a good issue to use in state elections to turn states blue in some cases. Don't see it as a problem, use it as a tool.

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